wings10
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2 edits | When will HD be the standard?
When will HD, (Anything lower then 1080) be the standard and not a paid premium? When will networks drop digital/480/SD broadcast in favor of HD/1080. 20 years? 50 years?
(Note: I know OTA HD is free)
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pandora
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|  SD will be around a long time on cable and satellite. If its dropped at some time in the future, my guess is the price we will pay is the HD price.
I no longer enjoy SD programs that much. Which is sad, there is so much SD legacy.
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wings10
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South Elgin, IL | Does it costs the networks more to broadcast and carry 2 channels? One SD and one HD?
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Jahntassa
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| It costs more to shoot programming and rebroadcast in HD. It also costs cable companies and distributors money to rebroadcast those signals.
Since many networks and studios sold off their SD equipment to try and make back some money from their HD investments, I don't think HD is going to be completely mainstream until most of the SD gear dies. |
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tschmidt
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| reply to wings10
said by wings10  :Does it costs the networks more to broadcast and carry 2 channels? One SD and one HD? The short answer is it depends.
If station is broadcasting two different programs then obviously they have the cost of paying royalties on two programs. If they are the same then there is no additional cost.
The reason stations broadcast in both HD and SD format is not about OTA viewer but Sat and Cable. Often Sat and Cable providers have special relationship with broadcast station and get feed directly, not OTA. However in some cases Sat and Cable simply use OTA pickup. Since Cable will convert digital to analog standard definition broadcasting in SD give the station total control over image quality.
I assume over time you will see simulcasting in HD and SD decline.
A station is able to broadcast more programs in SD then HD. So if many programs is more important then video quality they will broadcast multiple SD channels.
Over the air station have 19 Mbps to play with. Precisely how they "spend" it is a business decision, HD or many SD.
/tom
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to wings10
said by wings10 :When will HD be the standard and not a paid premium? When will networks drop digital broadcast in favor of HD. 20 years? 50 years? (Note: I know OTA HD is free) Dish has a HD only service that is about the same price as the SD only service. More should do this. If I have HDTV why would I want to watch channels in SD if I have the HD verison of the channel?
the problem with going all HD is the number of people that still use SDTV sets. Look at all the problem with the OTA transition to digital because so many people still had TVs without digital tuners.
The number of households with at least one HDTV is about 35%. This number should accelerate in the next few years as they get cheaper in price and because no one sells SDTVs anymore. My local wal-mart hasn't sold any in 12-18 months. not to mention just about all new shows are now filmed in HD.
I predict within 6 years at least one company( whether it be sat, cable, fiber ) will go all HD. HDTV penetration should be over 85% by then. |
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ktus
@cox.net
| reply to wings10
quote:
When will networks drop digital broadcast in favor of HD
HD is digital. if they drop digital then there is no HD or SD.
quote:
the problem with going all HD is the number of people that still use SDTV sets.
Are there any TV sets which cannot receive the digital broadcast and convert the resolution to match the display resolution? In the ATSC spec it is stated (to paraphrase) "All TVs must be able to receive all of these formats and display them." Has this changed? |
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Hayward
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Key West, FL
3 edits | reply to pandora
said by pandora :SD will be around a long time on cable and satellite. If its dropped at some time in the future, my guess is the price we will pay is the HD price. I no longer enjoy SD programs that much. Which is sad, there is so much SD legacy. Big diference between SD being around and if all channels are HD or not.
Sooner or later it will just be two costly for programmers and sat/cable providers to duplicate everthing, as well as all that bandwidth waste.
As soon as they run out of or just low on people that will pay a priumium for HD, SD as distinct channels WILL go away.
Sure SD content still but, just on a side cropped HD channel.
I make the comparison to telephone, who charges extra for touch tone service anymore? It just got to costly to maintain all that old rotary dial equipment. And while most places you can still pulse dial, its such a low number of people, that the equipment circuits necessary to accomodate them is minimal.
As far as analog the Converter boxes convert both SD digital and HD.
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Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL | reply to wings10
SD still takes up less room maybe they can go all HD boxes and drop the SD and HD duplicates and just down res them on to a sd out put.
some cable co say free hd but they hide in higher box rent costs. |
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Hayward
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Key West, FL
| Not as long as cable keeps analog service, each analog station takes the space of up to 6 digital.
Many channels are still SD only, but already it is becoming a majority that are HD. And yes SD digital takes less space it still amounts to dupicated wasted space. And for satellite that is a very finite space, that will be more profitable invested, other services (expanded PPV, Sports and movies, more local markets, etc). Also a big sales point if they do it before cable does.
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djdanska
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| reply to wings10
I think they need to give everybody with cable or dish boxes that can get both sd and hd as a standard. Makes upgrading easy. I will use my provider as an example. Take all the rarely watched analog channels and put it digital. My area kinda does that already. take channels like Nick, a&e, fx, all the news channels, and the others that hd's and remove the analog sd feed and replace it with the hd feeds. That way, when i tune in 46 Nick, i get Nick HD and if someone with a sd tv tunes in to 46, they get Nick HD in non-hd resolution. Would help comcast! I looked at my lineup and just about all of the cable stations could be taken off analog and they would have enough space for every one of them to be in HD. (And have room for TONS more!) People with just analog would get 2-22 (in my area) and would require a box if they wanted the rest.
Does that make any sense? If they wanted to be nice about it, they could make the basic channels like Nick or Cartoon network, fx, fox news, msnbc, and the others in unencrypted qam. (But make other pay-hd or higher tier channels require a box). Put them in proper channel numbers too. None of the 90.32 for FX and 105.17 for Mnsbc HD.
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Greg_Z
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| In order for someone to get the HD feed in 4:3 feed, they would have to have a HD capable box, but hooked up via Component, S-Video, or Composite. If not on a SD only box, they will only get sound. Both SD & HD feeds will be around for a long time, until HD 16:9 becomes the norm. As for the anon ktus's comment, HD is High Definition, what did you thing that it stood for? As for SD, it stands for Standard Definition, or 4:3 480i/480p/580i.
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wings10
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South Elgin, IL | reply to tschmidt
So they are using the same equipment and then ether up converting or down converting?
And using one camera like on the network news?
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Hayward
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1 edit | reply to Greg_Z
said by Greg_Z : As for the anon ktus's comment, HD is High Definition, what did you thing that it stood for? As for SD, it stands for Standard Definition, or 4:3 480i/480p/580i. Well you are a little iverbord there to while technically ED, SD EQIPMENT can do up to 700x525.
Why SD DVD generally look bette rthan broadcast SD, even cabe or not digital channels.... because it is 700 horiz.
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Greg_Z
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Springfield, IL | And that is 580i resolution, 4:3. |
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wings10
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| reply to djdanska
I will phrase it this way.
When will broadcast, cable, Satellite etc stop all transmission in SD, 480i?
At some point be it 10, 30, 50 years from now will all transmission be 1080 or even higher and anything lower not exist?
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Jahntassa
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| said by wings10 :At some point be it 10, 30, 50 years from now will all transmission be 1080 or even higher and anything lower not exist? Possibly, once it becomes more cost effective for all of the studios and production facilities to stop repairing old ED equipment and purchase new / used HD equipment.
Believe it or not, some facilities are still using tube-based cameras. |
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Greg_Z
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| reply to wings10
It never will. There will always be broadcasts @ 480i/480p/580i 4:3, and there will always be broadcasts @ 720p/1080i 16:9. Doubtful that for some time that you will start to see 1080p as a standard for CATV, but maybe for Satellite.
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tschmidt
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| reply to wings10
said by wings10 :So they are using the same equipment and then ether up converting or down converting? Correct, at the studio filming is done in either SD or HD format. It would be too cumbersome and expensive to have two sets of cameras. Assuming show is filmed in HD it is converted to SD.
Broadcast stations are able to simulcast multiple digital programs for free because they can fit both HD and SD program into a single digital OTA channel.
For Cable it is a different issue. They prefer to carry as many different programs as possible, not different versions of the same program. They have a limited amount of bandwidth. Ideally they would like to get rid of analog completely. In fact I think some MSOs have already done that. Some are looking at giving customers of basic cable a cable ready set top box that works much like the OTA converter box. It converts unencrypted QAM to analog SD NTSC. The converter box is cheap and prevents a lot of complaints by basic cable customers. I use OTA so am not really up on Cable industry.
/tom |
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wings10
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| reply to Greg_Z
said by Greg_Z :It never will. So even in 100 years people will still watch TV in 480i?
yea ok. 
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