amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| reply to ophelus
Re: x264 and Intel 4500MHD
Glad to hear HD on these chips is working! I've been very curious about this little chip. Not a ton of info on how well it can handle full HD video that I can find.
BUT, I found this looking up info on the 4500mhd... Might be helpful to look over.
»nunnally.ahmygoddess.net/watchin···ng-dxva/
...they also suggest the "haali media splitter" on that page...
Seems it's possible to get hardware h.264 acceleration out of those chips, capable of 1080p, even with a relatively weak processor (the dual 2.0, however, should be PLENTY in this case, it's more dependent on the GPU usually).
I've been looking at laptops recently, and this is promising to hear that people are getting 1080p to work out of these little GPUs. Wondering now if a low powered Acer Timeline can handle HD video... Might still look into a laptop w/dedicated GPU to be sure - just torn b/w that and the Timeline due to super battery life. |
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Inflex
join:2002-09-05 | reply to ophelus
Divx 7 supports mkv, why not just use that? |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO
| reply to ophelus
Here's some additional info.. I learned..
I got the same crappy frame rates again.. and I didn't understand why.. but turns out in the case of my laptop if the cover is open.. it's shooting the video to the screen even though it's off??
So in my case I have to when hooking it up to a true 1080p monitor this is via VGA cable not DVI (I have DVI but hdtv's DVI sucks ass so not using it)
I have to weirdly have the laptop screen down to not get jerky video.. I have not done extensive testing yet.. my main movie for testing was "Ghost Town"
I was also interested in the 4500mhd as gaming chipset and ran a test against my older agp 3.0 ghz 64 mb ati system.. and it's gaming test was worse or pretty bad.. (this was a light gaming test.. Sam and Max Season 1) |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| said by ophelus  :Here's some additional info.. I learned.. I got the same crappy frame rates again.. and I didn't understand why.. but turns out in the case of my laptop if the cover is open.. it's shooting the video to the screen even though it's off?? So in my case I have to when hooking it up to a true 1080p monitor this is via VGA cable not DVI (I have DVI but hdtv's DVI sucks ass so not using it) I have to weirdly have the laptop screen down to not get jerky video.. I have not done extensive testing yet.. my main movie for testing was "Ghost Town" I was also interested in the 4500mhd as gaming chipset and ran a test against my older agp 3.0 ghz 64 mb ati system.. and it's gaming test was worse or pretty bad.. (this was a light gaming test.. Sam and Max Season 1) It sure does sound to me like you have graphic driver problems. Here is an article where they benchmark the 4500HD against the Radeon 4830.
See this review from HardOCP: »www.viddler.com/explore/HardOCP/videos/17/
I had to update the BIOS and the drivers from Intel to fix this issue. |
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gate1975mlm
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Philadelphia, PA
2 edits | reply to Matt
said by Matt :I have an X4500HD (same model as you, different name) on a DG45ID board in my HTPC and I can play x264 1080p content just fine. What codec pack are you using? I use ffdshow-tryouts. When I play 1080p content my wimpy Pentium Dual-Core 2.5Ghz sits at 5%-10% usage on Vista. Update to the latest driver from Intel, uninstall all codec packs, reboot, install ffdshow-tryouts and let me know if that helps. Are you playing MKV? If so, install the haali media splitter too. But can you also play the Quicktime 1080P Trailers in the "Quicktime player" On your Pentium Dual-Core 2.5Ghz X4500HD PC with no frame loss? |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by gate1975mlm :said by Matt :I have an X4500HD (same model as you, different name) on a DG45ID board in my HTPC and I can play x264 1080p content just fine. What codec pack are you using? I use ffdshow-tryouts. When I play 1080p content my wimpy Pentium Dual-Core 2.5Ghz sits at 5%-10% usage on Vista. Update to the latest driver from Intel, uninstall all codec packs, reboot, install ffdshow-tryouts and let me know if that helps. Are you playing MKV? If so, install the haali media splitter too. But can you also play the Quicktime 1080P Trailers in the "Quicktime player" On your Pentium Dual-Core 2.5Ghz X4500HD PC with no frame loss? Although I didn't have Quicktime installed, I just installed and tested it with Transformers Revenge of the Fallen 1080p and my CPU bounced between 25% and 40%, mainly in the low 30% area, while playing it full screen. It was perfectly smooth. |
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gate1975mlm
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Philadelphia, PA
| said by Matt :said by gate1975mlm :said by Matt :I have an X4500HD (same model as you, different name) on a DG45ID board in my HTPC and I can play x264 1080p content just fine. What codec pack are you using? I use ffdshow-tryouts. When I play 1080p content my wimpy Pentium Dual-Core 2.5Ghz sits at 5%-10% usage on Vista. Update to the latest driver from Intel, uninstall all codec packs, reboot, install ffdshow-tryouts and let me know if that helps. Are you playing MKV? If so, install the haali media splitter too. But can you also play the Quicktime 1080P Trailers in the "Quicktime player" On your Pentium Dual-Core 2.5Ghz X4500HD PC with no frame loss? Although I didn't have Quicktime installed, I just installed and tested it with Transformers Revenge of the Fallen 1080p and my CPU bounced between 25% and 40%, mainly in the low 30% area, while playing it full screen. It was perfectly smooth. Cool! 
Reason I asked was because I am thinking about getting a labtop with maybe a Intel 4500MHD and I want to be sure I can play the 1080P Quicktime trailers Wont be gaming at all on the laptop. |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO
| said by gate1975mlm :Cool! Reason I asked was because I am thinking about getting a labtop with maybe a Intel 4500MHD and I want to be sure I can play the 1080P Quicktime trailers Wont be gaming at all on the laptop. I'll check it for you too give me a little time |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to gate1975mlm
Do a bit of research on the chip though. You need to make sure the drivers and BIOS for the laptop you want are mature. I had NON-STOP trouble with mine stuttering with video (even just DTV from my TV card) until I realized Intel released several BIOS and driver revisions to address the onboard card. Since May, I think they've released 3 new BIOS revisions and the board/chipset is over to 6 months old now. |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO
4 edits | reply to ophelus
I downloaded a 154 mb 1080p transformers2 trailer that did not take up the fullscreen.. had black bars.. it lagged badly in the quicktime I had but in windows media player with the codecs suggested in the beginning of the thread it seemed to do fine.. however my processor was anywhere from 37% to 100% during its run I'd say the average was 60-80%.. I didn't see any lost frames for my own test.. (I still have not popped on coreavc/k-lite and wonder if that might have helped with the processor time.. as I was surprised at the usage)
This was tested again via VGA cable to a 1080p 40" HDTV with my laptop lid closed.. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | It sounds to me like HP needs to fix your onboard card unfortunately. |
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lafaze
join:2009-07-06 | reply to Matt
Hey Matt, could you tell me about those bios updates for the 4500hd cards. I have a 4500 mhd and I also having trouble with hd playback. Thanks ahead of time |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by lafaze :Hey Matt, could you tell me about those bios updates for the 4500hd cards. I have a 4500 mhd and I also having trouble with hd playback. Thanks ahead of time The BIOS updates have to come from the motherboard or laptop manufacturer. They are not updates for the card directly unfortunately. Intel has been great about pushing out BIOS updates for my Intel branded board and X4500HD, but it's taken somewhere on the order of 10-15 BIOS updates since the board was released last October or so to get it working as promised. |
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ophelus
join:2004-01-11
Denver, CO
3 edits | reply to Matt
said by Matt :It sounds to me like HP needs to fix your onboard card unfortunately. You’re probably right.. all laptop manufacturers are likely not even paying attention to Intel patching of these poor performance problems.. I may re-try the video with k-lite but there ain't no way I be putting lastest quicktime on..  |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | Have you tried the QuickTime Alternative? If you don't have the latest Quicktime, that may be why. You need a specific version so the 4500HD can utilize its hardware decoding engine. |
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lafaze
join:2009-07-06
1 edit | reply to Matt
said by Matt :said by lafaze :Hey Matt, could you tell me about those bios updates for the 4500hd cards. I have a 4500 mhd and I also having trouble with hd playback. Thanks ahead of time The BIOS updates have to come from the motherboard or laptop manufacturer. They are not updates for the card directly unfortunately. Intel has been great about pushing out BIOS updates for my Intel branded board and X4500HD, but it's taken somewhere on the order of 10-15 BIOS updates since the board was released last October or so to get it working as promised. That sucks for me. Sony is pretty bad about updating their drivers even, not alone their bios which is nonexistant. I had to uninstall the Sony custom video driver which they never update just to install Intel site's updated graphics drivers. I been working on it, and I managed to get hardware acceleration in MCPHC using h264 cyberlink external video filter because I have a copy of Power DVD. The problem is it works for some MKV and others not. I hoped that new bios updates would allow all my h264 files to be hardware accelerated.
I just bought the windows 7 preorder partly for the native h264 support and also because vista in general is pissing me off to no end. IF intel wasn't so secretive and stubborn about the releasing the 4500mhd technical detail to open source people (instead of just exclusively their commercial partners like Cyberlink) I wouldn't need to go through this shit because open source would be able to take care of it; like how MCPHC people have been able to create hardware accelerated video decoders for nvidia and ati card users. All well, i hope my experience in windows 7 will be better.
IF someone has a better solution for hardware acceleration for 4500hd or mhd than using the h264 cyberlink filter, please post it. What player you are using? What codec? How did you set it up? It would be much appreciated. I already know about ffshow and core avc and they aren't enough for 1080 p videos sometimes because it still all cpu. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | Intel has been VERY good about open sourcing their work. If there's nothing out there for the 4500, the open source community just hasn't written it. |
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lafaze
join:2009-07-06
| said by Matt :Intel has been VERY good about open sourcing their work. If there's nothing out there for the 4500, the open source community just hasn't written it. I disagree. MCPHC people asking intel for specification to add hardware acceleration in September 2008.
»software.intel.com/en-us/forums/···c/60703/
Eric of intel finally in March 2009, after only starting in September after many months, with MCPHC peoples help, finally enabled vista exclusive non commerical h264 acceleration.
»software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2···h264avc/
Thus, there was no non commerical hardware acceleration support until March 2009 because of Intel lack of disclosure in accordance to HDCP(created by intel itself). On the other hand, intel's commercial partners, privy to technical access, were able to quickly put out hardware acceleration supported software like cyberlink.
So lack of hardware acceleration was not because of lack of effort of the open source community, but because lack of Intel openness with the technical detail for h264 acceleration due to Intel following very stringent HDCP rules. In contrast, open source writers working with ATI and Nvidia, did not have the same coding problem given that ATI and Nvidia were very loose with technical disclosure and HDCP rules.
So why am I taking my time writing this? Having a HDTV in the family room, I chose specifically a labtop with 4500 mhd with "264 hardware acceleration" and hdmi to play hi def. When it didn't work properly b/c of decisions by intel, of course I was disappointed in intel.
It might be their technical and legal right to do whatever they want with their product, but it seems wrong to the consumer that a key feature of a product is not working because of things like HDCP. Also forcing consumer to buy commercial software to enable a advertised feature while they get their act together seems to state that intel priorities are not their consumers but again their commercial partners.. Again their right, but yeah...
I still have very inconsistent h264 acceleration using a combination of MPCHC dxva and cyberlink h264 plug in, despite taking many hours looking at forums to get the dang thing to work. In contrast, my daughter's cheap desktop integrated nvidia 8100 mGPU with just free MPCHC and no commercial software plays h264 material with flying colors avoiding the intel headache I have. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| The G45 was released in mid-2008. So if Intel was asked to provide the spec in September and there was something working in March, I'd say that's pretty damn good. Especially since nVidia won't open source their drivers at all. The page you linked to details that an Intel engineer himself fixed the problem. |
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lafaze
join:2009-07-06
| said by Matt :The G45 was released in mid-2008. So if Intel was asked to provide the spec in September and there was something working in March, I'd say that's pretty damn good. Especially since nVidia won't open source their drivers at all. The page you linked to details that an Intel engineer himself fixed the problem. No if you read them carefully. 1st post is MPCHC open source people asking for technical details to get the hardware to work in Sep 2008. Also again Nvidia and ATI disclosure has been more open that why open source has gotten h264 to work correctly.
"So my question is : does Intel use a specific protocol for bitstream decoder, and if so is it possible to have the specifications?"
Feb 2009 is when a Intel person finally responded to that request, and March 2009 is when Eric of Intel with the help of the open source MPCHC people got it working. NOTICE: It was Eric of intel doing all the work, while the open source people just provided technical help in regards to open source MPCHC, and not the other way around, again to what I suspect to keep Intel "trade" secrets.
So September, Oct, Nov, Dec 2008, January, February 2009. Several months of idle in 2008, 2009, finally a response in 2009? Not exactly responsive, the same MPCHC people coded ATI and Nvidia h264 hardware stuff for their open source player months ahead of time. If open source people can do Ati and Nvidia that fast and they aren't paid, then why can't Intel be more responsive. In fact if for Eric's generosity and whim, there would be no non commercial 264 acceleration.
Also the fact, that intel person said XP wouldn't be supported, limits the options of people who has issues with Vista. I don't know the technical details, but my daughter XP machine with the nvidia integrated runs h264 acceleration fine and that chip was released earlier than the 4500 mhd so I don't think it a technical. I suspect HDCP rules again.....Intel and Microsoft with HDCP can be scary. And yes, there were people like me trying to get h264 to work right without luck in 2008 and even now because the 4500 mhd h264 is far from perfect.
I have not installed windows 7 RC on the labtop b/c I don't like the hassle of switching or dual booting a computer. But if windows 7 runs h264 acceleration well for the 4500 mhd like some people posting on forums say, then Intel has a real double standard on how they treat their commercial (Microsoft, cyberlink) and open source counterparts in regards technical disclosure. I don't know why you are defending Intel or doubting what I am saying because they you sticking it to you and me. So yes I am frustrated with intel. |
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