Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
 ·Colbanet
| reply to insomniac84
Re: Linksys announces the WRT54GL's successor: WRT160NL
said by insomniac84  :said by Guspaz :"Buffalo, unfortunately, encrypts their firmware, and their routers will accept only encrypted firmware in the web interface." Yeah, it's a pretty modder-unfriendly router, that Buffalo. It's supported by a very few unstable builds of DD-WRT and nothing else, not even Open-WRT. And NewEgg's reviews are 3/5 with the first commenter saying it is a "Nice paper weight" Well that is a complete lie. A lie? The first part is from the page you linked to. As for the statement that it's not exactly modder friendly, it runs, as far as you've shown, on ONE build of ONE firmware, and apparently even that required the developer jumping through hoops so that people didn't need to crack open the router case. And you had to dig up an old OS just to install it, since it wasn't possible with a recent version of Windows. Thanks, I'll stick to developing firmware for routers that are a bit more friendly to my efforts. Besides this, our work is based on Tomato, and unless we took the effort to port it, the WHR-G300N is unlikely to be supported.
It sounds like you are biased for a brand which is both funny and sad. The last router I bought/acquired was an Asus. Before that, an Alix. I co-develop firmware that runs on a variety of routers, and regularly recommend the Asus WL-520GU due to the cost. Where's the funny/sad Linksys bias? I'm not seeing it.
I bought one last week to replace a wrt54glv2 that was dying and am using the buffalo right now. That's unlikely, since that router doesn't exist. The most recent WRT54GL is the v1.1.
The thing seems to have zero problems. Most likely the bad review was from an older version of the firmware or someone who tried to flash it before they made the tftp version. I am using "DD-WRT v24-sp2 (05/21/09) std - build 12188" which is the version it recommends on dd-wrt.com. All you do is download the "firmware.tftp" which is the tftp version of the firmware and go to » dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/WHR-G300N |
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PXA
Digital Ninja
Premium
join:2008-04-02
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Guspaz
Does Tomato have any official forums where people can ask that they support this new router? Given the WRT54GL's limited and decreasing availability, it would really be nice to see them add support for this and I'd love to be able to tell them that even though I've already donated to their project, I would happily do so again to see this new model be supported. |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| reply to Guspaz
You are way over thinking it. My router was a GSv4, not GL. My wrt54g which still works is v2. But that really doesn't matter here. It's just an old linksys that died.
And I am not sure what your point is. In your first post you referenced dd-wrt. The fact is if you want a cheap N router that works with dd-wrt the buffalo works. You don't have to like it, but it exists in case someone doesn't want to spend twice as much on an N router if there focus is dd-wrt. And it's hardly the worst router for custom firmwares, since it actually works for at least one of them. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| reply to PXA
said by PXA :Does Tomato have any official forums where people can ask that they support this new router? Given the WRT54GL's limited and decreasing availability, it would really be nice to see them add support for this and I'd love to be able to tell them that even though I've already donated to their project, I would happily do so again to see this new model be supported. Not really. For Tomato/MLPPP, there is here. For Tomato itself, probably linksysinfo is the closest there is. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
| reply to insomniac84
said by insomniac84 :And I am not sure what your point is. In your first post you referenced dd-wrt. The fact is if you want a cheap N router that works with dd-wrt the buffalo works. You don't have to like it, but it exists in case someone doesn't want to spend twice as much on an N router if there focus is dd-wrt. And it's hardly the worst router for custom firmwares, since it actually works for at least one of them. Umm, you don't seem to understand. I'm the co-developer of Tomato/MLPPP, a custom firmware designed to allow users to bond multiple DSL lines using MLPPP. It's a patch set for the Tomato firmware. This is probably the only custom firmware that most people in this forum are interested in running. Running dd-wrt on the Buffalo is useless to us. dd-wrt doesn't support MLPPP, and probably never properly will.
I only mentioned DD-WRT because it was to illustrate how few 802.11n routers support custom firmwares in general. Very few support anything at all, and those that do support it run DD-WRT (which is not what we need).
As to why we chose Tomato as the base for our work rather than DD-WRT, at the time we felt that Tomato had a much superior interface, a much easier QoS implementation, and was far more reliable (by virtue of doing less things, but doing less things better). It was a good (simpler) base to work from. |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| reply to PXA
said by PXA :Does Tomato have any official forums where people can ask that they support this new router? Given the WRT54GL's limited and decreasing availability, it would really be nice to see them add support for this and I'd love to be able to tell them that even though I've already donated to their project, I would happily do so again to see this new model be supported. Tomato is not a commercial product.
The best place "where people can ask that they support this new router", as you put it, is where you donate money to the volunteer developer:
»www.polarcloud.com/ -- you'll see the "Donate" button . . . |
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Lowtarget
Premium
join:2003-12-22
Alger, OH
clubs: | reply to Guspaz
I'm still using the Linksys WRT54G v2.2. Still working strong without signs of wearing out.  |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
 ·Videotron
| reply to pandora
said by pandora :A replacement for a WRT54GL should really have 2 USB ports and 1 or 2 ESATA ports IMO plus it should be gigabit ethernet capable. GbE would have been nice since 100Mbps for broadband+LAN+11N switching is starting to get a little tight.
As for the rest, a faster CPU would be required to handle NAS at GbE speeds and extra hardware (connectors) to expose all the SoC's interfaces would be required. This would inflate the retail price with features relatively few people would make serious use of in a market where a $10 price advantage can make or break sales.
The single USB port costs Linksys almost nothing but adds a considerable amount of perceived value among similarly-priced components. Extra NAS connectivity brings very little extra perceived value to the typical broadband router buyer.
If you want/need full-featured, full-speed NAS, you should buy an actual NAS box instead of a broadband router where NAS capability is only thrown in for the woo-factor in a cost-sensitive market. |
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GNca George
GorillaNET
Premium
join:2008-07-12
Minden, ON
1 edit | reply to Guspaz
N radio test |
They are not particularly cheap, probably $350-400 by the time you assemble everything, but they will push 200-300 mbits of real data through the N radios.
Only three Ethernets though, so personally I would separate out the MLPPP in one router from the N radio in another. It would end up faster and cheaper at the end of the day.
The pic shows N performance on a lower-end RB411, the test is between two RBs so the Ethernets don't come into it... |
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gord27
join:2005-05-01
Mississauga, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by GNca George :Only three Ethernets though, so personally I would separate out the MLPPP in one router from the N radio in another. It would end up faster and cheaper at the end of the day. that's what i've done. probably would be fine for most people. i've got my 3 modems going to the wrt54gl then from there to a gige switch and then out to a wrt350n for the wireless. |
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PXA
Digital Ninja
Premium
join:2008-04-02
Nepean, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to planiwa
said by planiwa :said by PXA :Does Tomato have any official forums where people can ask that they support this new router? Given the WRT54GL's limited and decreasing availability, it would really be nice to see them add support for this and I'd love to be able to tell them that even though I've already donated to their project, I would happily do so again to see this new model be supported. Tomato is not a commercial product. The best place "where people can ask that they support this new router", as you put it, is where you donate money to the volunteer developer: » www.polarcloud.com/ -- you'll see the "Donate" button . . . As I said in my post, I have already donated to the project in the past because I think it is great and I would donate again to ensure support for this new N router. But just donating them additional money without being able to tell them why doesn't really help ensure they know what the community would like to see happen.
--
Parallax Abstraction,
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
blog.digital-lifeline.ca |
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pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
 ·ooma
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Comcast
|  reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError :If you want/need full-featured, full-speed NAS, you should buy an actual NAS box instead of a broadband router where NAS capability is only thrown in for the woo-factor in a cost-sensitive market. I started with NAS on my router. It was too slow. A USB connected to an external notebook drive with a 10/100 connection just isn't fast enough. I've moved up to 2 Linkstation devices (one Pro one Live). They support gigabit ethernet. I'm in the process of upgrading my primary (24 port) switch to gigabit (the new switch was ordered yesterday). 100 doesn't cut it for NAS IMO. Squeezing Tomato into a 4 or 8 MB flash, then having 16-32 MB of RAM is too tight today, and will be worse in the future. For a box which will support customized Linux software, I'd like to see some room to spare.
IF Linksys wants to make an enthusiasts router, my suggestions stand. What I'd like (and I guess may other enthusiasts) would be an open source slim Linux box with some muscle.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Videotron
| said by pandora :For a box which will support customized Linux software, I'd like to see some room to spare. IF Linksys wants to make an enthusiasts router, my suggestions stand. Personally, if I buy a "Broadband Router", I want to PAY for a "Broadband Router", not an all-in-one digital convergence appliance that does 24-ports GbE managed switching, routing, NAS, realtime 2160p60 video encoding, etc.
The WRT160's is an application-tailored Linux-capable hardware platform designed to route internet traffic at ~80Mbps, which is all that a "Broadband Router" really needs to be able to do given the broadband speeds currently available in North America and most other places worldwide.
said by pandora :What I'd like would be an open source slim Linux box with some muscle. Then you should probably look at something other than a broadband router designed to run a stripped-down Linux kernel.
Linksys/Cisco makes Linux-based WRT routers because it saves them the trouble of maintaining every little detail of the software stack on their low-cost routers: most of it is maintained by other OSS developers, all Linksys has to do is apply patches, rebuild and test.
Earning points with the enthusiast crowd is an unintended benefit since this success storry began with an horrible PR fiasco: remember how the original WRT's Linux-based firmware was closed-source until GNU/EFF sued Linksys to force them to release it? |
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pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
·ooma
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Comcast
| The beauty of the Linksys open source routers has been the ability to modify them. Not only to improve them as routers, but to add additional functionality.
The router I'm using at the moment, supports FTP, Telnet, file sharing via Samba, VPN and a laundry list of router features. It supports USB attached hard drives and (USB) printers (as network printers). My router suffers most from limited RAM and flash memory resources. The interface, the version of the software, are all limited by design decisions made for the router. As a result the utility is limited.
Open source Linksys router design is very limited by the quantity of flash and RAM. As a result my router is running a very old version of Samba, it doesn't support encrypted FTP (or more generally the WinSCP interface), and doesn't have support for NTFS flash drives (well it sort of does, but it takes a bit of work, the support is a bit of a kludge). My router has no room for extra features which would possibly support media sharing, even file sharing over internet.
There is a lot of interesting stuff an enthusiast router could do for us. Media server, network storage, VPN, VOIP, bluetooth, wireless telco modems, home security, webcams, various file sharing and what not. The current Linksys routers lack sufficient flash and RAM to make this happen. Generally the Linux OS has to be compressed into flash (as there isn't enough flash) then pushed out into RAM (which makes the scarce RAM even more so).
IMO an enthusiast router, would support a lot of RAM, flash, gigabit, at least 2 USB ports and have one or two ESATA ports. If Linksys released a device, it would be well embraced by the mod community, and we'd see a lot of development on it IMO. If possible even an RJ11 jack to support VOIP ATA capability would be a nice addition.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
2 edits | reply to PXA
I seem to recall that Jon's web page contained contact information.
But it seems to be undergoing changes -- even the "donate" button has disappeared from when I posted a few hours ago.
What I meant to say, although I did it very, very poorly, was that a message to the primary developer (Jon aka tofu), together with a designated donation, might be most effective.
There are several other developers who have made specific mods, as well. (Victek, Teddy Bear)
Tomato Forum: »www.linksysinfo.org/forums/forum···hp?f=160
Donations/Wishlist FAQ: »www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showp···count=27
Jon's Forum contact: »www.linksysinfo.org/forums/membe···u=424924
WRT160NL thread: »www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showt···?t=62160
WRT6??N thread:
»www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showt···?t=59287
Hope that's more useful.  |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz :IMO gigabit is not crucial in a router. It only truly needs to communicate with the internet (sub-100mbit) and wireless (sub-100mbit). If gigabit communications are required, a cheap gigabit switch would fit the bill. I disagree with you on the lack of need for Gigabit Ports. Right now the availability of 100+Mbs Internet Connectivity is minimal but having it will Future Proof your network for when it is more available and you want it. It also allows the computers on your LAN to talk to each other using 1000Base-T speeds in lieu of the current 100Base-T speeds. If you live in the Cablevision (NYC Metro Area) footprint, you need Gigabit Ports on your Router to take advantage of their ULTRA (101 Down) tier. |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError :The WRT160's is an application-tailored Linux-capable hardware platform designed to route internet traffic at ~80Mbps, which is all that a "Broadband Router" really needs to be able to do given the broadband speeds currently available in North America and most other places worldwide. In the NYC Metro Area Cablevision offers 101Mbs speeds so a Gigabit Router is needed if you do not want to get Router Throttled back to the speeds that a 100Base-T port can deliver (assuming that the router's CPU chip can keep up with the Modem). Having Gigabit Ports Future Proof for when the speeds require it as well as supporting faster LAN Speeds (CPU-to-CPU transfers). BTW: I think Japan has speeds in the 100+Mbs range right now so your "Most Places Worldwide" does not apply there (and the US has very low average max rates for a number of reasons). |
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Radar73
join:2008-01-20
Ajax, ON | reply to Guspaz
Gigabit would have been nice. |
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InvalidError
join:2008-02-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Videotron
| reply to pandora
said by pandora :The current Linksys routers lack sufficient flash and RAM to make this happen. Generally the Linux OS has to be compressed into flash (as there isn't enough flash) then pushed out into RAM (which makes the scarce RAM even more so). The WRT160 hardware is sufficient to fulfill its intended primary purpose. That hackers and enthusiasts will try to turn it into something else beyond the OEM's intent is irrelevant to the OEM... this is how the modder-hacker-enthusiast community has always been.
said by pandora :There is a lot of interesting stuff an enthusiast router could do for us. Linksys/Cisco did not design the WRT54G routers to be 'enthusiast' devices, they were designed to be cheap consumer-grade broadband routers. "Enthusiasts" turned them into enthusiast devices after the firmware got opened up.
If you buy a device advertised for a certain purpose, buy it and turn it into something else, you cannot really complain to the OEM about it.
Yes, tinkerers and hardware junkies want devices with 10x more processing power, memory, IO options, etc. than typical consumers will ever need but this is not an economically viable engineering choice on low-cost, low-margins mass-market devices like the WRT54 and WRT160 routers. Every unnecessary $1 on the BOM can cost thousands of dollars in lost sales and profits if a competitor can make a similar device that covers the same core functionality with a lower BoM and sticker price. |
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HiVolt
30
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
clubs:
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to RARPSL
said by RARPSL :In the NYC Metro Area Cablevision offers 101Mbs speeds LOL, that doesn't really bother us here in Canuckistan, as our internet speeds are behind some 3rd world countries, hehe...
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GOLF LEAFS GOLF! |
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