Is Blu-Ray a Failure? in Audio/Video Chat

Is Blu-Ray a Failure? in Audio/Video Chat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22593767 en Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:48:53 EDT Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:48:53 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22710351 Subaru : lol speaking of subs I was watching a movie and my mom was like wow that's too much bass but she will admit some stuff sounds better then her mono tv 3" speaker]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22710351 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:07:19 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22709723 Steely :

said by normat

:

I hate to stereotype but I've noticed many women don't seem to notice picture quality. Same with high quality audio also.

I'd often find my ex had turned off the subwoofer. Also she would often watch a SD channel when it was available in HD.

Wow....small world! My wife must be your ex! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22709723 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:08:32 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22709526 Subaru :

said by normat

I have seen this too.. And I know a few member who ordered a HD tv and have a HD cable box but still picks the SD feed for the channel when a HD channel is offered.

I can't stand a cropped 4:3 show on a HD feed.
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22709526 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:18:59 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22709104 normat : I hate to stereotype but I've noticed many women don't seem to notice picture quality. Same with high quality audio also.

I'd often find my ex had turned off the subwoofer. Also she would often watch a SD channel when it was available in HD. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22709104 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:59:02 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22708137 Subaru :

said by BF69

said by Subaru

said by SKYHN

:

The main thing is seeing the difference, because it truly is amazing. But at the same time, everyones old SD tv still is functioning fine. I think within the next 2 years it should really take off.

I was using it as a example she's seen blueray in stores and still can't tell that it's better...

oh well
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22708137 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:34:30 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22708128 dadkins :

said by Subaru

said by SKYHN

How far away was she from the display?
Was it a 1080 capable display?

*IF* you are within the proper distance from the display, you CAN tell the difference.
If you are outside the ideal viewing distance, the difference becomes less noticable.

Ideally, for a 20" display(1080), 2.2 - 3 feet viewing distance is recommended... like sitting at a desk looking at a monitor
Standing behind a person at that desk - 4+ feet or more - that hoses the ability to reslove properly. :(
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22708128 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:33:46 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22707758 wth : New reg price $98? »www.geek.com/articles/gadgets/wa···0090713/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22707758 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:13:59 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22707750 BF69 :

said by Subaru

said by SKYHN

Is that a TV or monitor? And no at 20 inches or even 24 you're not going to see much difference. Was the "HD" blu-ray or "HD" off the internet or TV. Completely different animals. A "HD" download or even HD program off of TV can't compare to blu-ray.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22707750 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:13:09 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22707327 Subaru :

said by SKYHN

Agree.. I showed my mom something simple a full screen SD tv show and a HD tv show of the same program.. she said "It looks the same to me!"

I'm like you can't tell that it's not sharper? Maybe it's because my screen size is only 20.1"? maybe with the new 24" she might notice?
--
It's NOT Ni-kon It's NE-KON!

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22707327 Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:55:04 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697348 mod_wastrel :

said by BF69

:

A side benefit of blu-ray, DVD are priced lower than ever.

I used to go to Best Buy on a weekly basis for their $3.99 DVD sales--lots of good and popular movies (the good stuff). Now, they sometimes have $4.99 sales, but mostly it's $6.99 and $9.99. $3.99 sales there are few and far between. So, I don't buy as much stuff as I used to--still waiting for those good ol' $3.99 sale days.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697348 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:39:00 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697344 Its a Secret : You wussy. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697344 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:36:11 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697323 dvd536 :

said by BF69

said by C0deZer0

:

Yes, it might be resolved now, but what has been done to assure that another foul-up like it won't happen again?

You know you can say that about ANYTHING and everything in life. Does that stop you from buying those other things?

And has anything been done for all those that had been afflicted by these bad BD players and movies?

Widescreen blech!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697323 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:30:23 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697301 BF69 :

said by C0deZer0

:

Yes, it might be resolved now, but what has been done to assure that another foul-up like it won't happen again?

You know you can say that about ANYTHING and everything in life. Does that stop you from buying those other things?

And has anything been done for all those that had been afflicted by these bad BD players and movies?

A) Google is your friend

B) Really what does that have to do with anything? You obviously dont like blu-ray so fine whatever. You're just being nitpicky now to make your point. Just say you don't like it and be done with it.

A side benefit of blu-ray, DVD are priced lower than ever. Do you think they'd be that way if blu-ray didn't exist? Used to be on only movies you get in the $5 or less bargin bin at wal-mart were fullscreen DVD of 15-20-25 year old movies. Now you can get widescreen verisons of not to old movies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697301 Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:20:36 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697086 C0deZer0 : Yes, it might be resolved now, but what has been done to assure that another foul-up like it won't happen again? And has anything been done for all those that had been afflicted by these bad BD players and movies?
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22697086 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:21:25 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22696639 BF69 :

said by C0deZer0

said by BF69

:

Ok first of all blu-ray should be able to play on all players. There were a few mistakes made and those movies were sent back. So that's a bogus reason. Also all the blu-ray players wal-mart sells are at least profile 1.1. Thirdly it's call firmware update. How else do you think a PS3 that is 3 years old can be profile 2.0?

That and it was at least built with a programmable optical drive in mind.

How many profile 1.* stand-alone players out there haven't already been obsolesced because their internal firmware couldn't understand how to work with 2.0? or that the manufacturer has stopped supporting it with updates before it could understand 2.0 features and 2.0 DRM? How many people have had to basically return their brand new bluray players when a new Fox movie with brand new DRM won't play on their systems? I remember for a while, it seemed like every new Fox movie release had some new DRM that FUBAR'd like half the players on the market. And only the ps3 was able to actually keep up with the constant updates that required.

And those players would have been taken off the market and the issue with the FOX movies have been fixed. So are you bringing it up?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22696639 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:15:17 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22695634 C0deZer0 :

said by BF69

said by dvd536

said by BF69

said by seangprice

:

Blu-Ray is this Decades laser disc, my opinion of course. It costs to much for the average person to get involved with the Tech. I know there are cheaper offerings, but they are severely lacking the capabilities of the full blown players.

There is no doubt that the BD quality is awesome, but I have chosen to go with video on demand from amazon over my Tivo, and Netflix combined with my computers and xbox360. The picture and sound may not equal a BD movie, but the convenience and cost are right for me.

However there have been reports of the movie not playing if the profile isn't right so its not just always about the fluff on the disc!

Ok first of all blu-ray should be able to play on all players. There were a few mistakes made and those movies were sent back. So that's a bogus reason. Also all the blu-ray players wal-mart sells are at least profile 1.1. Thirdly it's call firmware update. How else do you think a PS3 that is 3 years old can be profile 2.0?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22695506 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:02:11 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22695499 sholling :

said by dvd536

:

However there have been reports of the movie not playing if the profile isn't right so its not just always about the fluff on the disc!

Ancient history from the early days of the standard. Anybody with a current generation profile 1.1 player should be good to go. There are too many players out there now for any more major changes.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22695499 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:00:21 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22694689 seangprice : You get what you pay for... You're right, you can get a cheap player, but the Media is still expensive and it might not work in all players.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22694689 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:19:40 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22657825 dvd536 :

said by BF69

said by seangprice

However there have been reports of the movie not playing if the profile isn't right so its not just always about the fluff on the disc!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22657825 Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:12:50 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22655045 BF69 :

said by seangprice

You can get a blu-ray player for $128 at wal-mart. And most people aren't videophiles they just want to watch movies and that's all they need. Stuff like BD-Live which requires a connection to the internet which if you don't have broadband is pretty useless even if it's something you want.

A $29 DVD palyer doesn't do much. Doesn't stop people from buying the low-end products. Are Vizios HQ TVs? Nope, but they sell the most.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22655045 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:58:32 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654827 seangprice : Blu-Ray is this Decades laser disc, my opinion of course. It costs to much for the average person to get involved with the Tech. I know there are cheaper offerings, but they are severely lacking the capabilities of the full blown players.

There is no doubt that the BD quality is awesome, but I have chosen to go with video on demand from amazon over my Tivo, and Netflix combined with my computers and xbox360. The picture and sound may not equal a BD movie, but the convenience and cost are right for me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22654827 Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:39:34 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22622788 Its a Secret : I have 4 HDMI on my TV (Toshiba 540). How many do you need?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22622788 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:24:04 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22622591 thender :

said by Loco

:

Yep, it's a big failure.

I have a Sony Blu-Ray player here at home and we rarely even use it.

So because you don't use it, it's a failure.

Right. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22622591 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:38:00 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620910 normat :

said by Matt

said by normat

:

Those older CRT TV sets last forever. The same can't be said for the newer technologies. They either don't last as long or become obsolete.

And a CRT doesn't become obsolete?

They had longer lifespans back in the day and I suspect there will be many in service for years to come.

Compare that to HD sets. There are never enough inputs, the HDMI spec is always getting upgraded. The bulk of the low end LCD panels have an inferior picture quality (though better than a SD set in most regards).

I just think people into HD TV will probably upgrade theirs sets a time or two while others will hold on to their 24" SD CRT for years to come.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620910 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:27:37 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620332 dadkins : My CRT was way past it's days.
I replaced it with a nice 42" 1080p display.
No sense is replacing a 24" with another 24"(no CRTs) if there are a shitload of bigger and better HDTVs available, right?

HDMI and one of my BD laptops - think about it. :)
With the average life of a LCD at 40,000 to 50,000 hours... I'm ok for about 5 years of continuous use.
More if the set gets switched off occasionally.

Think I'll watch Transformers Blu-ray... ;)
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22620332 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 12:27:38 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619995 Matt :

said by normat

:

Those older CRT TV sets last forever. The same can't be said for the newer technologies. They either don't last as long or become obsolete.

And a CRT doesn't become obsolete?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619995 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:57:54 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619987 normat : Those older CRT TV sets last forever. The same can't be said for the newer technologies. They either don't last as long or become obsolete. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619987 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:56:04 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619158 SKYHN : Honestly, as a bluray player and discs owner(PS3), and an HDTV(720p), the cost of the bluray discs is just too high. Your average bluray is $29.99, granted it high def. I do own many bluray movies, however, I've never paid full price. I only buy when they are on sale. That is my reasoning for not going out and buying a bunch.

And in terms of why it hasnt taken off yet as a whole, I think that the HDTV market is not exactly strong enough yet with people. Granted you walk into bestbuy and all you can buy is an HDTV now, you still have that large majority of people who do not have one and are not interested in it yet. I think its going to take a major push from all of the TV and movie companies to really get it going. The main thing is seeing the difference, because it truly is amazing. But at the same time, everyones old SD tv still is functioning fine. I think within the next 2 years it should really take off.
--
Do you douche with coconut juice?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22619158 Sat, 27 Jun 2009 01:33:37 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22616199 howie :

said by Matt

:

Thumbs up for the Aenima image as an avatar!

LOL... I had to google Aenima to realize what you're referring to! ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22616199 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:58:47 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22614694 Matt : Thumbs up for the Aenima image as an avatar!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22614694 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:29:32 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22613429 Portmonkey : I don't think it's a failure, but it's not as much of a success as I had thought it would be by now. I've stopped buying DVD movies and only buy Blu-Ray now, but because of cost I don't purchase as many movies. There's no way I could ever afford to replace all of my old DVD movies with Blu-Ray and still occasionally purchase new releases. A handful of my favorites will get replaced and I'll be very picky about new releases unless prices ever drop to what DVDs cost.

Other than cost, I worry about how fast things change. From 1999 till a few months ago I was fine with DVD but I'm not so sure Blu-Ray will last that long before something bigger and better comes along. With HDTVs coming out with 3D stuff, web capabilities, and plenty of other crap it looks like some of us will need to buy yet another TV if we want to join in on all the upcoming fun. Not sure how accurate the info is but I recently read about "Managed Copy" for making a copy of a Blu-Ray disc, which looks to require new hardware and only works with copy enabled discs.

Maybe when things settle down with cost and if features stop changing so often, more people will start buying Blu-Ray and it'll look to be more of a success.
--
"...eat Spam from the can, watch late night C-Span, and rock out to old school Duran Duran..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22613429 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:18:41 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610670 Matt :

said by normat

:

I've seen people complain about the PS3 also but don't have first hand experience with the sound it produces in home.

My house is cool and I'm not sure about the revision of the xbox. I don't know how many decibels would register but for me it's more of the pitch the xbox makes. It grates on the nerves. When I really notice it is when it gets turned off and I get a feeling of relief. In contrast my central AC doesn't bother me at all.

That is weird. I couldn't take it pre-Dashboard update, but now I don't notice it at all. People are sensitive to different pitches and frequencies though and honestly, it's too loud however you look at it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610670 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:32:33 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610653 imtim83 :

said by normat

Yeah it is strange how that works. I wonder why that is where AC noise doesn't bother us but computer, dvd, and blu ray such devices can ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610653 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:30:40 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610525 normat : I've seen people complain about the PS3 also but don't have first hand experience with the sound it produces in home.

My house is cool and I'm not sure about the revision of the xbox. I don't know how many decibels would register but for me it's more of the pitch the xbox makes. It grates on the nerves. When I really notice it is when it gets turned off and I get a feeling of relief. In contrast my central AC doesn't bother me at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610525 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:04:04 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610425 C0deZer0 :

said by Matt

:

That has been fixed on the 360 with the dashboard update released last year. I hear the PS3 is near silent anyway.

Depends on the revision.

The original models (20/60 - a.k.a. the ones that were actually any good), were not silent, and depending how warm the room was, it can make the fans kick on.

The newer units (significantly neutered IMO by comparison) also benefit from the smaller manufacturing process and generate less heat to begin with. But combined with the added ventilation and cooling, are able to stay cooler easier, and thus not need full-speed airflow as much.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22610425 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:45:57 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609922 Matt :

said by normat

said by Rook008

:

If I thought Blu-Ray was worth the price right now, the PS3 is the player I would get.

Careful about that. Game consoles make so much noise they can ruin a viewing experience. One reason I never used Netflix on my xbox 360.

That has been fixed on the 360 with the dashboard update released last year. I hear the PS3 is near silent anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609922 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:29:50 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609855 normat :

said by Rook008

:

If I thought Blu-Ray was worth the price right now, the PS3 is the player I would get.

Careful about that. Game consoles make so much noise they can ruin a viewing experience. One reason I never used Netflix on my xbox 360.

I would use Netflix on my Blu-ray player but if given the choice a Blu-ray disk would be the first choice. I want True HD Audio, not stereo. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609855 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:17:50 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609649 BF69 :

said by Matt

said by Rook008

:

Philips DVP 5990. Best DVD Player I've ever had. Plays every disc I've ever put in it, plus Movies on a USB Stick. Upconverts too. Had it for almost a year and never a problem with it. Bought it for around $40.

No kidding. I have a $49 DMTech that I bought 5 years ago that is still going strong. Plays all kinds of crazy formats too that my Sony (which was $299) won't.

If you paid $299 for a DVD player it had to be nearly 10 years ago thus you can't compare it because of course 10 year old technology is going to be obsolete.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609649 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:45:42 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609634 Rook008 : That reminds me, The Philips 5990, with a simple button pushing combination, become region free. Plays anything.

But anyway, I think Sony has made some small missteps with the PS3, but I hear it's a great Blu-Ray and DVD Player overall.
If I thought Blu-Ray was worth the price right now, the PS3 is the player I would get.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609634 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:43:28 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609536 C0deZer0 :

said by Rook008

:

I Had a Sony that wouldn't even play PAL discs. And it was over $100 when I bought it.
But it's a Sony, it's supposed to be better, right? Right....

Sony's ps3 was supposed to receive an update that would allow playing PAL encoded discs that were not region-locked. Yet even in all of my testing and tryouts and the subsequent updates, that has yet to actually happen.

Conversely, the xbox 360 doesn't care and will play it no problem - with full extras and resolution.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609536 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:25:17 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609286 Rook008 : I Had a Sony that wouldn't even play PAL discs. And it was over $100 when I bought it.
But it's a Sony, it's supposed to be better, right? Right....
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609286 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:47:40 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609225 Matt :

said by Rook008

No kidding. I have a $49 DMTech that I bought 5 years ago that is still going strong. Plays all kinds of crazy formats too that my Sony (which was $299) won't.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609225 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:39:05 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609195 Rook008 :

said by BF69

:

...
DVD players that are $30 are total crap. I wouldn't even buy one of those. Show me a DVD player under $50( especially one that supposedly upcovnerts ) and I'll show you a DVD player that's broken within 6 months.
...

Philips DVP 5990. Best DVD Player I've ever had. Plays every disc I've ever put in it, plus Movies on a USB Stick. Upconverts too. Had it for almost a year and never a problem with it. Bought it for around $40.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22609195 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:35:14 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608339 BF69 :

said by imtim83

said by BF69

said by xrobertcmx

:

Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them.

Where are these $30 blu-rays?

here are new movies on blu-ray

Gran Torino (With BD-Live + Digital Copy) (Widescreen) $24.86

Twilight $23.86

Taken (Blu-ray) (2-Disc) (Extended Cut With Digital Copy) $22.86

Watchmen: Director's Cut (2-Disc Special Edition) (With BD Live + Digital Copy) $24.86

Fast & Furious: Special Edition (Blu-ray With BD-Live) (2-Disc) $24.86

Knowing $23.86

Paul Blart: Mall Cop (2-Disc) (With Digital Copy & BD-Live) (Blu-ray) $23.86

Valkyrie (With Digital Copy) $24.96

Sorry I can't find a blu-ray movie for over $25. And most of those listed also come with a digital copy.

Oh my god those are all hollywood films with many being horrible. Sorry but until the market for blu-ray includes foreign films too forget about blu-ray.

A) foreign films were enver specified

B) "quality" was never specified and how one would quantify that is impossible anyways.

All that was mentioned was "I won't buy blu-rays because they are $30" and I've proven there are no $30 blu-rays. there WERE which must mean prices are dropping liek they did with DVDs and VHS. So if people would quit bitching and let the market take it's course you'll get you blu-rays priced the same as DVDs before too long. Hell it took a decade and a half for a new movie on VHS to be under $20. Less than 18 months removed from the end of the format war and you expect $5 blu-rays.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608339 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:07:31 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608304 BF69 :

said by Matt

:

I agree that price is a barrier. I wonder though, will the price of entry for Blu-Ray drop fast enough before an alternative contender shows up? A quick perusal of Best Buy.com shows there are no-name brands going for $199, which is much closer to the proper price point.

My local wal-mart which isn't a very big one has at least 3 name brand models under $200]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608304 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:01:08 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608086 e_dub : Vizio to sell a $188 BR player.

»www.engadgethd.com/2009/06/25/vi···ve-next/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608086 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:24:56 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607914 imtim83 :

said by Matt

said by normat

:

Not to mention, I think it's possible blu-ray players could eventually hit a price point that even people with SD sets would consider them. There wouldn't be too much of a benefit for them other than better and faster disk menus and future proofing their library.

That sucks for them. I have a feeling a lot of people don't even want to deal with that kind of problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607914 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:57:39 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607898 imtim83 :

said by BF69

said by xrobertcmx

:

Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them.

Oh my god those are all hollywood films with many being horrible. Sorry but until the market for blu-ray includes foreign films too forget about blu-ray.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607898 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:55:12 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607718 Matt :

said by normat

I agree that price is a barrier. I wonder though, will the price of entry for Blu-Ray drop fast enough before an alternative contender shows up? A quick perusal of Best Buy.com shows there are no-name brands going for $199, which is much closer to the proper price point.

I wonder how low Blu-Ray can go since Sony requires a licensing fee however? I'm also curious to know if the firmware updates will be a deterrent. I've had several people call me about firmware updates because they didn't understand how to perform them and couldn't watch a movie.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607718 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:16:46 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607660 normat : Not to mention, I think it's possible blu-ray players could eventually hit a price point that even people with SD sets would consider them. There wouldn't be too much of a benefit for them other than better and faster disk menus and future proofing their library.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607660 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:08:34 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607494 BF69 :

said by xrobertcmx

:

Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them.

said by e_dub

:

I'm guessing that a lot of you aren't old enough to remember (I'm 37, I think I was 20 when i bought my first DVD)the price of DVDs when they came out... $30+
DVD player's $300 plus.

I'm 40 and I remember the family buying a regular VCR For over $200( $400 in today's money ) and paying over $20 for a VHS tape. ( $40 in today's money ). And actually a $20 VCR you can buy toady is more advanced than those $200 ones were.

TVs that were 27 inches were over $600. I paid $200 for a ColecoVision and $30 for games. And people gripe about the price of a PS3. It took a kid making minimum wage over 60 hours to earn enough to buy a ColecoVision. It takes a kid earning minimum wage today just 55 hours to earn enough to get a PS3. What's more advanced a PS3 or a ColecoVision?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607457 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:10:58 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607437 BF69 :

said by ultracooldave :

"but I'd rather spend $20 than go through all the hassle and time of trying to copy or obtain pirated materials. The storage and time costs just are not worth it to me."
Yes, that is why I am having nothing to do with blu-ray, 1080i is more than good enough, push 1 button on my Dish remote to access 165 HD movies (eventually 250) and content like the Rose Bowl Parade-and my wife has told me in no uncertain terms-NO more discs or devices, since I have just added another usb harddrive to another hd dish box we are at over 500 hd (1080i) movies and content for $200 in storage cost. The incredible convience of 1 button access and the small footprint sold me on this way to go with HD.

that's great unless you live in an area that has download caps. I don't think those that are in TW testing area with their 40 GB caps and $1 per GB overages are doing what you are.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607437 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:03:16 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607434 BF69 :

said by Dirge71

:

Ahhhh....remember RCA Video Discs, Beta Tapes, Laser-discs, HD-DVD? the good ole' days.
DVD and Blu-ray will soon pass also, and we will all be
ON-DEMAND streaming our content

Well except my friends that live in areas that only have dial-up and won't have broadband for another 20 years if ever. I guess the studios don't want their money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607434 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:01:15 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607428 BF69 :

said by JoeG4

:

When you can pick up a BD player for $30 and something like Forest Gump in 1080P for $5, I'll say Blu-Ray has been a success.

Until then, I don't give a *@#%.

Edit: Though, I think HDCP is BS.

DVD players that are $30 are total crap. I wouldn't even buy one of those. Show me a DVD player under $50( especially one that supposedly upcovnerts ) and I'll show you a DVD player that's broken within 6 months.

$5 for Forrest Gump? You can't even get it on DVD for $5. So I guess that'll prevent you form getting a DVD player then.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607428 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:59:29 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607419 BF69 :

said by Matt

said by markopoleo

:

I wish people would blaming a recession for everything. :uhh: Its not the resession at all, it does not stop people from entertainment needs/wants. Even then, the "recession" is by area in the US, its not the whole USA.

Anways, The fact is, blu-ray is suppose to replace DVDs..AFTER dvd inventory is depleted. Have you not noticed how cheap DVD dropped in price since blu-ray was released? The bargain bins filling up with them?

On that note, Wal-mart is set to expand blu-ray offerings in all stores soon which will help adoption, coupled with the $100 player price point.

So you assert that DVDs aren't being manufactured anymore?

No that's not what he is asserting. Not sure how anyone would somehow think that by his post.

1) Once DVDs are stopped being made and are sold out blu-ray will take of. Just like VHS tapes are no longer made and then DVDs sales took off.

2) Even before that day older movies will no longer be produced on DVD thus leaving the consumer no chocie but to get blu-ray if they didn't already have the DVD

3) Even before then it's possible that the movie/TV studios will limit the number of DVDs made thereby leaving most comsumers no choice but to get the blu-ray]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607419 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:55:16 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607285 JoeG4 : When you can pick up a BD player for $30 and something like Forest Gump in 1080P for $5, I'll say Blu-Ray has been a success.

Until then, I don't give a *@#%.

Edit: Though, I think HDCP is BS. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607285 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:33:18 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607065 Anonymous_ :

said by unanimous :

LaserDisc Tried to replace VHS and fail. DVD intended to replace LaserDisc and felt like it happened overnight with some serious BANG!

now as for Blue-Ray. It has not put a dot on DVD. Technically Blue-Ray by FAR a superior Video Format but as far as a hick is concerned in middle America, DVD upscale is just Pur-fect.

Blue-Ray has huge obstacles in front of it. I as for one have a CRT that is mind blowingly fantastic. I personally would not Need/Want a Blue-Ray because the quality of Blue-Ray on a component is DVD like and Hence no reason to cough up dough just to waste it.

Also, if you REALLY want to tell the difference of the up scaling of the DVD which is almost unnoticeable unless you are seriously looking for it. And even then it does not justify the price.

So, as a Format war with DVD, Blue-Ray has failed miserably.

DVD vs blu-ray on a CRT Trinitron is noticeable ( yea my old CRT Trinitron(Not RPTV) has HDMI)

(using a playstation 3)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607065 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:56:27 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605450 Dirge71 : Ahhhh....remember RCA Video Discs, Beta Tapes, Laser-discs, HD-DVD? the good ole' days.
DVD and Blu-ray will soon pass also, and we will all be
ON-DEMAND streaming our content or movies/tv will come on SD Cards (like Slot Music that has come out)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22605450 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:51:24 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22602170 anon : "but I'd rather spend $20 than go through all the hassle and time of trying to copy or obtain pirated materials. The storage and time costs just are not worth it to me."
Yes, that is why I am having nothing to do with blu-ray, 1080i is more than good enough, push 1 button on my Dish remote to access 165 HD movies (eventually 250) and content like the Rose Bowl Parade-and my wife has told me in no uncertain terms-NO more discs or devices, since I have just added another usb harddrive to another hd dish box we are at over 500 hd (1080i) movies and content for $200 in storage cost. The incredible convience of 1 button access and the small footprint sold me on this way to go with HD.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22602170 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:47:04 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601800 Matt :

said by markopoleo

So you assert that DVDs aren't being manufactured anymore?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601800 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:27:27 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601696 normat : Perhaps I'm just different but I'd rather spend $20 than go through all the hassle and time of trying to copy or obtain pirated materials. The storage and time costs just are not worth it to me.

If you take China out of the picture the percentage of people doing "illegal" things is probably quite small. However, you can't stop China. They're the ones that make the copy protection hardware so I'm sure they can bypass it easily enough.

If I'm feeling that cheap I'll just do a search on my DVR for something.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601696 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:05:32 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601243 anon : This is due to the large difference in quality between 1080p and dvd. With 1080p you are getting nearly the same resolution as the original film-sometimes better due to re-mastering. There are more and more people (in s. california)having "movie parties" in their backyard especially in the inner city areas- a donation of a couple of bucks is welcome and you can smoke, drink, bring your own food and seats! children watch another screen. great fun- I have been to a mexican one. With all the nanny laws people are taking their entertainment needs into their own hands. Unfortunately for the studios-they don't make a penny from it!
the studios should be terrified of this catching on worldwide especially in this economy. this would not be possible without blu-ray being copied.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601243 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:19:38 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601125 anon : This is sony's answer to complaints from other studios that their encription has been cracked-"we will do a new encription so your 1080p valuable content will be safe" requiring a firmware update-lies- all fucking lies from sony and a major inconvience to people that find old discs don't play with these "updates". The way blu-ray is set up it can never be securely encripted for any length of time and still have old discs play!
While the studios like the money from releasing their valuable content on blu-ray its an extremely short sighted approach if it can be easily copied. And cheaply copied to a harddrive rather than expensive discs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601125 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:18:45 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601134 e_dub :

said by ultracooldave :

600 gig should do it-and uncompressed 1080p exactly the same as blu-ray quality copied with anydvd hd and a blu-ray player on your computer and transfered to a usb ext. harddrive ($60).-leaving out the trailers and ads-movie only. Anyone can do this right now!
Anyone with a computer with a hd output such as HDMI can play these files with power dvd hd. Anyone with a blu-ray burner can make their own discs-uncompressed unencripted and exactly the same as the original if they pay for the blank blu-ray discs but if you view them through a computer there is no need for discs.
I really did not think this was such a secret but the studios know this and are being very careful about what they release in 1080p! They were scammed into thinking blu-ray encription would work but it has not and never will no matter how many firmware updates they put people through.
This is happening on a large scale right now-maybe that is one reason blu-ray is not selling on the scale it should-when you can rent the original blu-ray from netflix for very little. I wonder if there are not more blu-ray blanks being sold than actual movies.
The end of blu-ray is at hand-there will come a time the other studios say enough is enough-no more 1080p without unbreakable encription and sony blu-ray will never be able to do this-be careful about buying shares in sony.

So why hasn't DVD come to the same fate as you claim blu-ray eventually will?
DVD has been out for years, and consumers have been copying DVDs for years. Studios have complained, but DVD sells weren't hurt. (much) I haven't read about DVDs coming to an end. I guess we should've been careful about buying stock into the manufactures of DVDs? :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601134 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:08:57 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601109 dvd536 :

said by BF69

said by dvd536

said by sholling

:

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.

Probably profile v1

So? Most people don't care about crap like the ability to purchase crap online from the movie. Most people just want to watch the movie.

some movies won't even play if profile isn't right version.
thats why i said that.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601109 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:46:21 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601058 anon : 600 gig should do it-and uncompressed 1080p exactly the same as blu-ray quality copied with anydvd hd and a blu-ray player on your computer and transfered to a usb ext. harddrive ($60).-leaving out the trailers and ads-movie only. Anyone can do this right now!
Anyone with a computer with a hd output such as HDMI can play these files with power dvd hd. Anyone with a blu-ray burner can make their own discs-uncompressed unencripted and exactly the same as the original if they pay for the blank blu-ray discs but if you view them through a computer there is no need for discs.
I really did not think this was such a secret but the studios know this and are being very careful about what they release in 1080p! They were scammed into thinking blu-ray encription would work but it has not and never will no matter how many firmware updates they put people through.
This is happening on a large scale right now-maybe that is one reason blu-ray is not selling on the scale it should-when you can rent the original blu-ray from netflix for very little. I wonder if there are not more blu-ray blanks being sold than actual movies.
The end of blu-ray is at hand-there will come a time the other studios say enough is enough-no more 1080p without unbreakable encription and sony blu-ray will never be able to do this-be careful about buying shares in sony.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601058 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:15:16 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601040 Loco :

said by fireflier

:

Based on that logic, it must be a huge success because I use mine all the time. ;)

Hey, thats great.

Blu-Ray just didn't turn out to be what they had originally expected it to be.

Many people just don't give a chit, meng.

Have a nice day !]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601040 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 02:00:36 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?-the day blu-ray dies http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600845 e_dub :

said by ultracooldave :

I will go out on a limb and predict just about the exact day blu-ray dies-

This is the day blackmarket ext. usb2 harddrives appear with 200 unencripted 1080p movies on them along with a pirate copy of power dvd hd probabily selling for $200! This is all you need to play them in full 1080p - any recent computer with an HDMI or hi-def output connected to your tv! and there are more and more computers with this now. Video cards are really cheap with this capability now as well.

This is atleast the 3rd time you've mentioned movies on a USB stick/HDD....are you trying to tell us something?
IT WONT HAPPEN!!!
Do you really think you can get 200 1080p/HD audio movies on a USB HDD How many gigs will this HDD be?
Or are you assuming the movies will be compressed to shit with 2 channel audio. C'mon get real.
The HDD alone will be more than $200 if there's something out there that can hold that many movies.

I read on AVSforum that "3:10 to Yuma" has over 6gigs of uncompressed 7.1 audio.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600845 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:37:58 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure?-the day blu-ray dies http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600570 anon : I will go out on a limb and predict just about the exact day blu-ray dies-

This is the day blackmarket ext. usb2 harddrives appear with 200 unencripted 1080p movies on them along with a pirate copy of power dvd hd probabily selling for $200! This is all you need to play them in full 1080p - any recent computer with an HDMI or hi-def output connected to your tv! and there are more and more computers with this now. Video cards are really cheap with this capability now as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600570 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:25:08 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600335 Its a Secret : I have around 400 DVD's, and replacing them all is a no-go. When I shift to BD, it'll be for the great movies only; the ones with great cinematography.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600335 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:28:26 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600331 markopoleo : I wish people would blaming a recession for everything. :uhh: Its not the resession at all, it does not stop people from entertainment needs/wants. Even then, the "recession" is by area in the US, its not the whole USA.

Anways, The fact is, blu-ray is suppose to replace DVDs..AFTER dvd inventory is depleted. Have you not noticed how cheap DVD dropped in price since blu-ray was released? The bargain bins filling up with them?

On that note, Wal-mart is set to expand blu-ray offerings in all stores soon which will help adoption, coupled with the $100 player price point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600331 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:27:23 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600180 Mashiki : If I wasn't so lazy I'd make a nice pretty and long flow chart. But I see it this way:

Are baby boomers buying it? Yes/No

Yes -- Success! Roll around in piles of cash!

No -- WTF did you do? You're burning money!

The reality is the core market has shifted, and they're aiming too low. Most of what I've seen this aimed at is the 'new tech' crowed, but we're not the largest market to buy this stuff. Those baby boomers? It's over the top for most of them, if you can't interest them you're just burning money. My parents aren't interested in it, they're just as happy with DVD's. They're turning tempocentric, better find a good marketing tool.

They see blu-ray as an extension of dvd, something they can't record on and take with them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600180 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:00:47 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600085 anon : It is perfectly possible to produce media on a harddrive with one encription key and the first time you connect that to a player it inputs onto the harddrive another key unique to that player and no other player can de-encript it, as a safe guard you can also make that harddrive self destruct should it be connected to anything but a legal player. The player itself could be connected to any type of computer or tv via usb.
There is a large amount of content waiting to be released should it be impossible to copy it, blu-ray promissed this but failed. the usb player could be extremely cheap. Of course you can capture any output in analog quality, I think 1080p would be next to impossible, who would want to anyway.
Dish network is doing this right now-you cannot play back the 1080i recorded on your ext. harddrive unless you call dish and have another box authorized by them, the new box you have authorized also has to be in the same model family. I have discussed this with dish tech since I just had another HD box authorized-they input a key into your new box and thats the only way you are going to be able to play the ext. harddrive.-
I have not heard of anyone able to bypass this and make copies.
So, blu-ray is a complete failure as to the copying aspect and has also caused playability problems everytime Sony decides to introduce firmware (encription) updates knowing full well they will not stop the determined copier. The content available on blu-ray is also a fail since studios know the coping is going on and restrict avaliability.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22600085 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:43:49 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599901 xrobertcmx : Price is absolutly one reason. I have both a PS3 and an HD TV. What I don't have is $30.00 a disk to buy them. In the past year and a half that I've had a PS3 to go with my pretty little 26in TV I have bought all of 3 games and 5 Blue Ray movies. Several of the games I've wanted have been $30 more then the PC version, and I unless I really, really like the movie I won't buy it so that I can only watch it on the one television in the house connected to a Blue-Ray player.
I can save $15 and go with the DVD Version which will play on the PS3, the Philips DVD player in my bedroom, and is rippable for playback on my iPod, or streamable to the PS3.
No, a copy protected, only playable on the iPod digital copy is not good enough.
--
Retaking our country one election at a time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599901 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:04:07 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599845 fireflier : Based on that logic, it must be a huge success because I use mine all the time. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599845 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:53:14 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599691 pandora : I think physical media for entertainment may become an issue for CD, DVD or Blu-Ray.

In our home, we mostly view TV programs and movies recorded on DVR's. The content comes mostly from satellites, but also from internet. A lot of entertainment also comes from video to our PC's.

I haven't purchased a CD for music in years, it is easier to buy from Amazon or iTunes.

The only CD player still in use would be in my car, but most of the time my kids are listening to individual music via an iPod. That may eventually change to a Palm Pre.

With 64 and 128 GB flash drive sticks, why would anyone want a 700mb CD or a 4GB DVD?
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599691 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:27:05 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599239 dadkins : If it can be watched or listened to - it can be copied.
At some point it has to be decrypted so it can display on the screen, right?

--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22599239 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:05:07 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598973 anon : The encription has been cracked many times for blu-ray leading to the need for firmware updates and playability issues and the studios HATE having their media copied.
I believe it is possible to produce pre-loaded harddrives that cannot be cracked and there is a big market for selling many TV shows at once in 1080p, there may also be a large market for the new 3D in 1080p which need more space and is more suitable for cheap harddrives rather than discs.
But, I think blu-ray is here for the forseeable future. While its not for me, I don't know how anyone could call it a failure.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598973 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:17:13 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598902 e_dub : I'm guessing that a lot of you aren't old enough to remember (I'm 37, I think I was 20 when i bought my first DVD)the price of DVDs when they came out... $30+
DVD player's $300 plus.
Since the topic was just brought up: CD players were $200+ and CDs were $20+
Audio cassette and video cassette tape backers were saying the same things as current DVD backers are saying.

Back then there weren't chat sites, blogs etc as we have now, but I do remember the Time magazine article stating the DVD would not take over VCR because many consumers had large collections and it would be too expensive to replace them.
Also I remember reading how easy DVDs could be scratched and how finger prints could screw up video quality. Any and every thing was said to defend VCRs.

DVD's eventually took over.
DVD players became better with s-video; then component with 480p & Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS.
As the DVD player progressed, the VCR numbers started to dwindle. Especially when video stores started to stock DVDs.
I remember a Block Buster article where they stated it would be too expensive to maintain DVDs that consumers screw up because of mishandling.
Basically indirectly stating they were not carrying DVDs. I think with in 6 months of that article, they started stocking DVDs.

It took time for DVDs become dominate, I believe blu-ray will make ground with cheaper players and lower cost disc.
I don't see it taking over, but I see a dominance. But hey, "it's only my opinion."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598902 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:01:34 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598863 dadkins :

said by C0deZer0

:

The only player on the market that's been able to keep up with the constant DRM updates and profile revisions has been Sony's PS3.

You said the only... well, that was wrong.
You did not specify what type so my post is relevent.
My AR190G VAIO came out before the PS3 and can still play all current titles.
Many other players, STB and computers, are on the market and are doing quite well.

Same death of tech happens everyday with lots of other electronic items.
Just had to replace my camera.
The old one didn't have IS.
Does that mean I got shafted by the Man? No.
It means progress has happened and newer = better.
BD players, as with anything, early adopters sometimes end up feeling like they got hosed.
My first VHS deck was a two head bugger.
Then there was 4 head, then stereo, then Dolby stereo.
Guess what... If I wanted all that new stuff, my old player wasn't evough. was it?

Remember Home Stereos?
2 channel sound.
Well, what happened to them?
Everyone has an Onkyo now with 5.1 or 7.1, don't they?
Mean ole manufacturers.

Look at TV sets.
27" Zenith in the living room.
Did I get burned? No.
TV is now digital and even HD.
Will that Zenith play them? Uhm, not really.
DTA and I can watch digital.
HD can be force-fed to the old thing, but will anyone be able to tell the difference? Nope, not quite.

Remember the first DVD players? Stereo at best, right? Right!
To enjoy the newer Dolby or 5.1, you need to replace that dinosaur, huh?

Even though I have all the capabilities, PiP/BD-Live - who cares?
I want the damn movie.
Since newer schemes and keys are being incorporated, I update my player softwares.
The Profile 1.1 and profile 2.0 are just there for the ride.

BTW, I just got back from the store.
Picked up A Bug's Life on Blu-ray. 50GB Blu-ray plus a Digital Copy.
The DC I couldn't care less about - if I want a copy, I'll rip the BD itself.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598863 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:53:25 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598578 anon : I believe that pre-loaded usb harddrives with say all star trek episodes in 1080p for say $200 and a $30 player will be common in a few years as harddrives become cheaper.
plus it will be much easier to encript them than discs- the studios will love that, so far noone has broken the encription for dish network usb recordings in 1080i.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598578 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:08:37 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598473 C0deZer0 :

said by dadkins

:

DVDs retail for $19.99 and higher still - what's your point.

That $20USD is the absolute ceiling price I will pay for any movie, regardless of format.

Just like I won't pay more than $30 for a handheld game, I won't pay more than $20 USD for a movie.

said by dadkins

:

As for Blu-ray 2.0(and higher?) ... Computer playback software has been at the forefront of all revisions - as simple as updating the software. :o ;)
Yay for HTPCs, huh?

Never said anything about that. My argument regarding the profile/revision fetishes is due to the device that the majority of people will use for playing their movie(s) on - dedicated players/recorder hardware. Not many I know, even when educated about the possibilities of an HTPC or even laptops equipped with the appropriate player software will go that route for their movie viewing entertainment.

And Sony has proven time and again that their obsession with revisions that break compatibility or features across the redesigns borders on some kind of sick sexual fetish. Those who have been keeping score would realize there have been at least fourteen internal revisions of PlayStation2's since its initial release. With the PS3, there have been at least five different revisions, and about that many different versions of the Memory Stick. The part that burns for people that have been trying to keep up for stand-alone players is that well, unless they chose to buy the console, and even if they started right away with BluRay as their chosen format, they would have had to throw away those players they started with because none of the launch manufacturers are updating those 1.* profile players anymore. Which is even scary to consider that there are still stand-alone players being sold in stores now that are not compliant for 2.0 and above, but because they're priced attractively enough, unsuspecting purchasers will think they got a good deal, and then be blind-sided when none of the fancy new BD features will work with their old tech player.

Many have already had to throw away their stand-alone players because of Fox's obsession with all the new DRM that seemed to change with each new movie they had released (Fantastic 4 on BD was the first to really cause a backlash that I recall). The way they abuse all the new versions of the DRM then make it so that most of these older players can't even understand what the hell the disc is, much less will play it fluidly at all. And so far, besides the ps3, I'd yet to be aware of a single stand-alone player on the market whose manufacturer has been able to keep up with that.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598473 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:51:37 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598459 Zero Gravity :

said by C0deZer0

:

Sorry BluRay people... but I see absolutely no point in paying more than $20 for a movie.

Pretty much all the movies I have on BluRay were because I was able to have them for $20 or less.

There's also the revision fetish that Sony has for things. Sure you might have been lucky to have a BD-Live player now, but what about when they release BluRay 3.0? 4.0? 5? etc.? The only player on the market that's been able to keep up with the constant DRM updates and profile revisions has been Sony's PS3. Everyone else has more or less had to throw away their bluray players to get a compliant model when the manufacturers stopped providing firmware updates.

All I can say is WTF? What DRM is stopping older players from working? Who has had to throw away a player because of some compliance? You don't need BD-Live to watch a disc. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598459 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:48:43 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598336 dadkins :

said by C0deZer0

DVDs retail for $19.99 and higher still - what's your point.
I buy both on sale.

As for Blu-ray 2.0(and higher?) ... Computer playback software has been at the forefront of all revisions - as simple as updating the software. :o ;)
Yay for HTPCs, huh?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598336 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:28:39 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598243 yock : I think it's also worth pointing out that DVD enjoyed some success at the hands of CD technology. The difference between audio cassettes and CDs was still rather fresh in everyone's mind that moving to DVDs seemed logical. They even looked the same!
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598243 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:15:41 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598226 mod_wastrel : Technical failure? No. Marketing failure? More or less. Obviously, it isn't the raging success that its backers wanted. DVD overtook VHS so quickly as much as anything because there was always something "wrong" with VHS: digital vs. analog (picture/audio quality), "be kind, rewind", etc. Blu-ray hasn't replaced DVD because there's nothing actually wrong with DVDs. HD is a big success, but Blu-ray is only one delivery method for HD. DVD was pretty much "it" for better quality video/audio at the time it was introduced and for some years after--before the current "digital download" era. Blu-ray will have to "win" the optical disk war by attrition... I mean, I'm certainly not going to replace any DVD I currently own in order to get a Blu-ray/HD version. Certain new stuff (where it makes sense--and cents) I'll get on Blu-ray (once I actually get a player :D), but mostly I'll stick with DVD.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22598226 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:13:35 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597988 imtim83 :

said by Matt

said by Ctrl Alt Del

:

When ignoring consoles (PS3 for BluRay and XBox 360 with the HD DVD drive), BluRay is more than a failure, it's still getting beaten by a format it killed, therefore it's a failure at being a failure. 11% of 2009 American households have a standalone HD DVD player vs 7% that have a standalone BluRay player.

When including consoles (PS3 and XBox 360), then BluRay only edges past HD DVD, with 14% HD DVD vs 16% BluRay.

I wouldn't call 16% a failure, but it's embarrassing that the format it killed is still keeping up. And DVDs are dominating at 83%.

»hothardware.com/News/Bluray-Adop···ales-Up/

Wow, those numbers are shocking. I never would have guessed that HD-DVD is still outselling Blu-Ray. I wonder if it has anything to do with the HD-DVD stock selling at extremely low pricing?

Not really that shocking at all. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597988 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:43:00 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597862 normat : HD DVD players make a nice upconversion player with the added benefit of playing HD DVD. That surge wont last long and they'll probably be hard to come by.

I think this holiday season will be a turning point and next season (1 1/2 years) we will see low cost players on the market.

For now when I go into the Block Buster store I have to take a pledge that I really do own a blu-ray player.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597862 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:24:09 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597820 Matt :

said by Ctrl Alt Del

Wow, those numbers are shocking. I never would have guessed that HD-DVD is still outselling Blu-Ray. I wonder if it has anything to do with the HD-DVD stock selling at extremely low pricing?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597820 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:16:22 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597759 normat : The first two Blu-rays I purchased were movies I already owned on DVD -- "Run Lola Run" (which is foreign) and "The Fifth Element".

I was browsing at Barnes and Noble the other day and was surprised by their selection of old and new titles. Much better than the selection at Best Buy.

I'm nervous about BRs future. I care about audio, picture quality and good bonus/extra features. Most people don't care that much, especially about audio quality (just look at Apple's success).

Video on demand poses a risk that we will have a future with high compression and Dolby Digital audio. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597759 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:05:57 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597725 imtim83 : Let The Right One In is the only Blu-Ray film I have ever wanted and the only reason I upgraded to Blu-Ray.

Only movie ever worth doing it for. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597725 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:00:15 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597702 imtim83 : Blu-Ray is nice but it will never work for me because most of my foreign films are not on Blu-Ray. Most will never be.

Some are on Blu-Ray though like Let The Right One In! Wow does it look beautiful too! Bought the Swedish Blu Ray because it comes with the commentary from the director and writer of the film! The english subtitles were the correct theater ones as well! Though Magnet is finally releasing the new DVDs and Blu-Rays with the fixed English subtitles now! Took them long enough. Still prefer my Swedish Blu-Ray.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597702 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:56:44 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597591 Ctrl Alt Del : When ignoring consoles (PS3 for BluRay and XBox 360 with the HD DVD drive), BluRay is more than a failure, it's still getting beaten by a format it killed, therefore it's a failure at being a failure. 11% of 2009 American households have a standalone HD DVD player vs 7% that have a standalone BluRay player.

When including consoles (PS3 and XBox 360), then BluRay only edges past HD DVD, with 14% HD DVD vs 16% BluRay.

I wouldn't call 16% a failure, but it's embarrassing that the format it killed is still keeping up. And DVDs are dominating at 83%.

»hothardware.com/News/Bluray-Adop···ales-Up/
--
less talk, more music]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597591 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:41:42 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597418 Rook008 : Thanks.
That C-Net article was (short but) interesting. I liked that they included this last bit:

"Here's what I think: With cheaper Blu-ray players on the way and a better slate of Blu-ray discs on tap for later this year, the format's future appears relatively bright. But detractors will surely point to the high price of Blu-ray discs, as well as improvements in digital downloads and streaming services as continued stumbling blocks."

It kind of sums up what I think about Blu-Ray. It's not quite there yet, and has some competition, but it'll be in better shape once prices come down.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597418 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:16:23 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597364 C0deZer0 : Sorry BluRay people... but I see absolutely no point in paying more than $20 for a movie.

Pretty much all the movies I have on BluRay were because I was able to have them for $20 or less.

There's also the revision fetish that Sony has for things. Sure you might have been lucky to have a BD-Live player now, but what about when they release BluRay 3.0? 4.0? 5? etc.? The only player on the market that's been able to keep up with the constant DRM updates and profile revisions has been Sony's PS3. Everyone else has more or less had to throw away their bluray players to get a compliant model when the manufacturers stopped providing firmware updates.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597364 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:07:47 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597305 drew : Thanks for that, but that doesn't mention 1080p penetration which is what I really cared about.

I appreciate you coming out and saying your proof of BD sales @ TV sale time is purely anecdotal.
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597305 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:58:50 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597289 sholling :

said by drew

:

Looking only at the US market, sales have increased Q109, which was following a sizable decrease Q408 and I believe Q309 as well.

On the world stage, less purchasing is occurring than what was occurring.

I'd also like to see some stats on both your claim of 1080p penetration as well as "When people buy a new TV is often when they buy a Blu-Ray player." Do you have any?

Flat panel sales jump.
»www.dealerscope.com/article/desp···1_1.html
»www.engadget.com/2009/05/11/flat···the-way/

quote:
We'd already heard that Vizio has vaulted back into first place among LCD TV manufacturers, but a new series of numbers compiled by the folks at DisplaySearch is now shedding a bit more light onto how much the flat-panel TV market as a whole has surged over the past year. Apparently, about 7.2 million flat-panel sets were moved during the first quarter of 2009 alone, which represents a sizable 23% increase over the numbers from the first quarter of 2008.

Blu-Ray sales
»www.tgdaily.com/content/view/42359/98/

quote:
A new report by the NPD Group indicates that Blu-ray video technology has moved "further into the mainstream." Indeed, first quarter (Q1) sales of stand-alone Blu-ray players in the US increased by 72 percent to over 400,000 units.

Meanwhile, the average selling price (ASP) for a stand-alone BD player decreased by 34 percent - from $393 in Q1 2008 to $261 in Q1 2009.

quote:
NPD entertainment industry analyst Russ Crupnick explained that the "leading driver" of Blu-ray "purchase intent" can be attributed to recommendations from friends, family or co-workers.

"Blu-ray's superiority used to be difficult for many consumers to grasp, but when friends rave about it, or demonstrate Blu-ray in their homes, they are selling the benefits in a way that is far more effective than simply viewing an advertisement or seeing it demonstrated at a retail store," added Crupnick.

Sales of Blu-ray movies, which were rather slugglish during 2008, also registered a significant increase in 2009. As TG Daily previously reported, Americans purchased approximately 9 million Blu-ray titles from January through March - nearly double the 4.8 million that shipped during the first quarter of 2008.

»news.cnet.com/blu-ray-sales-near···ear-ago/

quote:
Blu-ray detractors and backers, here's the latest status report on the format:

According to Adams Media Research, about 9 million Blu-ray discs sold in the U.S. from January through March--up from 4.8 million units sold in the first quarter of last year.

As Bill Hunt over at The Digital Bits says, those numbers are particularly good considering the ongoing recession and the relatively weak title slate early in the year. He adds that the overall rollout for the format is slightly behind DVD "due to the recession," but ahead of VHS.

Adams is also reporting that there are 10.5 million Blu-ray "households." That figure includes both standalone Blu-ray players and Blu-ray-enabled PlayStation 3s.

Sales penetration and projections.
»www.marketnews.ca/content/index/···pid=3938
»www.prweb.com/releases/2009/06/p···5804.htm

As for my statement that many buy their BD player when they buy their TV that was based on word of mouth from people that sell TVs.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597289 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:56:23 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597139 NYR 56 :

said by BF69

:

once again you're going off topic. And you're not comparing apples to apples. Downloading a non-HD movie from Amazon is threat to DVD not blu-ray.This thread about blu-ray being a failure and nothing you bring up has anything to do with that.

That is entirely relevant. DVD and non-hd IS a threat to blu-ray because many people are satisfied with a DVD and will not pay for blu-ray.

I don't think anyone here disagrees that blu-ray looks great and is better than a DVD. Unfortunately that doesn't mean it is a success. Regardless of what some of us techies think, most consumers simply don't see a huge difference between a DVD and blu-ray and even if they do, they can't justify the added expense.

I love high quality electronics but I don't own a single blu-ray or HD-DVD player or disc. I can get HD movies on demand or DVR movies that are playing already without spending the additional money for a player and expensive discs. Of course, I never bought DVDs since I didn't see the purpose of paying for a movie when I'll only watch it once or twice. Netflix is the solution to that as is bittorrent. When my DVD player dies I may get a blu-ray player just because it'll be cheap but I never plan on buying the discs, maybe an occasional rental but on-demand and DVR are far more convenient (and still HD).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597139 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:36:13 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597120 Rook008 : I know what you mean. I'm in no way an early adopter, but the TV I bought about a year ago can be had today for around $300 less. And it'a Vizio!
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597120 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:32:34 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597119 ncbill : No, most already sold have been the cheaper, 720p sets.

Even today only the largest plasma sets (58"-60") are 1080-only.

At 50" and below, 720p is still much cheaper (about 1/3 less) than 1080 for brand-name plasmas.

The several hundred dollar difference still does matter in today's economy.

Plasma's not going anywhere, as it remains much cheaper than LCD.

said by sholling

said by ncbill

:

Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.

Incorrect. Only the smallest and cheapest sets are still 720p, and that's changing fast. The vast majority of HD sets being sold today are 1080P LCDs. Of what's already out there most of the projection HDTV sets sold in the last 3 years at least 1080i with most being 1080p.

720 sets are still much cheaper than 1080 - 1/3 less for the 42" plasma I bought just 6 months ago.

Now there is a technology that's going away. Fewer and fewer companies are making plasma TVs as the market moves on to LCD and newer technologies.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597119 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:32:27 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597073 drew : Looking only at the US market, sales have increased Q109, which was following a sizable decrease Q408 and I believe Q309 as well.

On the world stage, less purchasing is occurring than what was occurring.

I'd also like to see some stats on both your claim of 1080p penetration as well as "When people buy a new TV is often when they buy a Blu-Ray player." Do you have any?
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597073 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:26:11 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597038 Matt :

said by Rook008

:

Vizio does make some nice, relatively affordable LCD's.

I agree. I've been seriously contemplating replacing my main HDTV with a Vizio LCD set. The price for a really nice model is less than HALF what I paid for my 720p Plasma 3 years ago. Damn technology depreciation! :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597038 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:20:22 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597023 sholling :

said by drew

:

Again, it matters not what's on store's shelves, but rather what's in people's homes.

What matter is what people are buying. They are buying whats on store shelves. What's stores chose to stock is based on what people what are buying. When people buy a new TV is often when they buy a Blu-Ray player. They want to see what their new TV is capable of. As the price approaches the magic $120 price point that will become more and more common and why not. It gives the consumer an upconverting DVD player that also plays Blu-Ray.

Basically you're making the same argument that the 42" DLP buyers made 4 years ago. That people wouldn't pay for the extra money for the higher quality picture of a flat screen. The prices came down and now everybody and their grandmothers are buying flat screens.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597023 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:18:44 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597004 Rook008 : Vizio does make some nice, relatively affordable LCD's.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597004 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:15:55 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596980 Matt :

said by sholling

said by Matt

:

LCD and Plasma have distinct advantages. I personally prefer the look of plasma over all but the highest end LCDs. A quick perusal of Samsung's site shows no less than 19 new 1080p plasma HDTV's.

I think it may seem like there are more LCDs because you don't see plasma HDTV sets in the smaller sizes. You see LCDs all the way down to 22" or so, but plasmas start at 42".

Vizio is a great example of the point you just made. They decided to enter the LCD market with high quality, low-cost HDTVs and have so far been rewarded with sales revenue to match. I absolutely respect and admire what they've done for the HDTV industry as a whole.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596980 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:11:18 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596969 sholling :

said by Matt

I'm not knocking plasma, it's just that it's become a niche market and there are fewer companies in that market. Companies like Vizio have brought the price of 1080P LCDs down to joe sixpack levels. Who knows maybe Plasma will make a comeback and take the lead.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596969 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:08:58 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596952 drew : Again, it matters not what's on store's shelves, but rather what's in people's homes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596952 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:05:52 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596934 sholling :

said by drew

said by sholling

said by ncbill

:

Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.

Citation needed

The only citation needed is a walk through the electronic section of any store. 720p sets 37" and above are getting rare as hen's teeth.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596934 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:02:46 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596927 BF69 :

said by Matt

said by drew

:

Netflix 'Instant Watch' has kept me from renting physical media since the 360 update to allow it to use it.

I do a lot of instant Netflix too. The problem with that (so far), is their HD selection is pretty terrible and for some of their older SD stuff, the quality is god awful when blown up on my 42" TV. I have seen a marked improvement in their selection, pretty much all new releases are available for instant viewing, but in SD only. The newer SD content isn't that bad, but if you stream say, Serenity from Netflix in HD and then switch to SD content, you want to gouge your eyes out. :)

yeah and I tired that. Had a 30 days free tial. There was NOTHING to rent. All old stuff. Cancelled. Nothing worth $9 a month in my book. This was 3 months ago. Was going to rent Iron Man, never saw it before, didn't have it in MARCH 2009 even though it came out on DVD in Oct 2008. WTF? At least with Amazon the wait is only a month compared to DVD and even that sucks ass. If I want to pay $9 a month to watch mostly old movies I'll subscibe to HBO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596927 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:01:46 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596920 Matt :

said by BF69

said by Matt

said by BF69

:

Except we are talking physcial media vs digital. And sorry

# of non broadband households > # household capable of handling 1080p streams.

And that will be the case for the next 10-15 years minimum. So where is blu-ray going?

Do you have kids? My 14-year old barely knows what a CD is and honestly,

Actually I have a 14 year old myself. So you point was?

I'm the same way. I've never cared for the physical media but there are people who do. As time goes on people will prefer the convenience of downloading a movie in a couple of hours over paying $20-$30 for the physical disk. It's human nature. Downloading a movie is easier than buying one or ordering it online and waiting. You see this is every aspect of our lives.

And again, I'm not talking about the capability of streaming 1080p content exclusively. There will be services that allow you to download that content and ANY connection is capable of that.

I think you need to calm down and realize the discussion has moved on. We're discussing how online video distribution is and will affect Blu-Ray. There is also no need to take this as a personal affront because we are disagreeing with you. No one is a Blu-Ray hater as I have said twice now that I like Blu-Ray, own a Blu-Ray player, and that nothing can match Blu-Ray in 1080p with 7.1 DTS.

I would suggest you go back and start with page 1 of the thread so you're up to date.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596920 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:00:54 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596911 drew :

said by BF69

:

once again you're going off topic. And you're not comparing apples to apples. Downloading a non-HD movie from Amazon is threat to DVD not blu-ray.This thread about blu-ray being a failure and nothing you bring up has anything to do with that.

Wrong!

Quality can only go so far, ease of access is the next "big thing" for media, IMO. Check out iTunes for a perfect example of that.
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596911 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:59:19 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596883 Matt :

said by drew

:

Netflix 'Instant Watch' has kept me from renting physical media since the 360 update to allow it to use it.

said by Matt

said by BF69

Do you have kids? My 14-year old barely knows what a CD is and honestly,

Actually I have a 14 year old myself. So you point was?

once again you're going off topic. And you're not comparing apples to apples. Downloading a non-HD movie from Amazon is threat to DVD not blu-ray.This thread about blu-ray being a failure and nothing you bring up has anything to do with that.

Also you haters fail to remember DVDs being $30 and that was 12 years ago which is like $45 in todays money. wal-mart has 1400 blu-ray movies 60% of which are under $20 many of those over $20 are disc sets which is to be expected.

the fact is places like wal-mart and best buy are going to be pushing blu-ray players and discs more than DVD because that's where the money is.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596875 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:54:32 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596860 drew : Netflix 'Instant Watch' has kept me from renting physical media since the 360 update to allow it to use it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596860 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:52:34 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596847 Matt :

said by drew

:

If "most people" were the same way, the big box chains wouldn't be struggling to make a profit and they certainly wouldn't be closing stores.

Even the grocery stores got into the video rental business and they're almost all out of it. They host floor space to Redboxes though.

I agree with this. BlockBuster missed the online boat and has closed a ton of stores. They're currently trading at 73 cents a share. In their heyday they were king of the video rental business but now all I see are the RedBoxes you mention at the local grocery store. I don't think physical rentals will fully go away for many years, but NetFlix and online delivery has certainly mortally wounded them. I think this will carry over to Blu-Ray as well.

It's my opinion, that if you present the average person with the choice of a slightly lower quality digital copy, they would choose that over physical media at 3x the price, unless the DRM or process to buy that digital media copy is too cumbersome.

Right now, there is no silver bullet for getting digital content to your HDTV and yet it's already wildly successful. I can't help but think once an inexpensive digital media "receiver" is released that is compatible with various services, physical media will decline in sales even further.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596847 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:51:05 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596832 drew : I'm not particularly interested in anecdotal "what's being sold now" evidence.

We're in a recession and consumer spending is down. TVs aren't being moved that quickly anymore.
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596832 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:48:21 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596820 fireflier : Go to HHGregg.com, BestBuy.com, Amazon.com, and/or NewEgg.com. Look at the selection of HDTVs in the 32"+ range. Especially once you get above 37" you won't see many 720s and of those, they're typically older models that are leftover inventory which have been supplanted by updated 1080 models or they're no-name brands.
--
Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596820 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:46:06 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596817 mikefxu : I never understood owning movie collections. How many times can you watch the same movie? I have about 25-30 DVD but I bought them at Blockbuster when they were $5 each or less since the cost is close to rental cost and I don't have to return. These were movies I haven't seen yet and only hang on to them in case a guest would like to watch them. I am really liking the $1 day Redbox and $2 1 day Blockbuster, Blu-Ray rentals. If someone says they have movie collections for the kids, fine, buy them used and cheap because they will probably destroy them and in 10 years they will all be in the thrift store like all the Disney VHS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596817 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:45:41 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596783 Matt :

said by BF69

Do you have kids? My 14-year old barely knows what a CD is and honestly, I'm the same way. I've never cared for the physical media but there are people who do. As time goes on people will prefer the convenience of downloading a movie in a couple of hours over paying $20-$30 for the physical disk. It's human nature. Downloading a movie is easier than buying one or ordering it online and waiting. You see this is every aspect of our lives.

And again, I'm not talking about the capability of streaming 1080p content exclusively. There will be services that allow you to download that content and ANY connection is capable of that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596783 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:40:14 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596734 anon : The truth of the matter is that the Studios do not need Sony to offer the public 1080p quality. They could easily offer harddrives with 30 or 40 1080p movies/ tv shows pre loaded and a cheap player you could connect to anything.
They might even have encription that could not be broken as well. Its quite easy to copy any blu-ray to a usb harddrive and play it back through any computer with an hdmi output-like my hp laptop with power dvd hd in 1080p to your set even though it does not have a blu-ray disc player built in.
I still think I can live with 1080i recorded from Dish at 50 cents per movie and yes I do have to pay Dish but I am paying anyway, at least I have the option of dropping the Dish package to $30 a month and will still be able to play back countless HD content instantly from my remote, I just don't have any need to deal with any type of discs again or pay for them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596734 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:35:51 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596731 drew :

said by BF69

:

Sorry I'm not into movies by mail and if I want to rent a blu-ray I'm going to to local Movie Gallery and most people are the same way.

Citation Needed

If "most people" were the same way, the big box chains wouldn't be struggling to make a profit and they certainly wouldn't be closing stores.

Even the grocery stores got into the video rental business and they're almost all out of it. They host floor space to Redboxes though.
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596731 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:31:05 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596716 BF69 :

said by Matt

:

BF69

Except we are talking physcial media vs digital. And sorry

# of non broadband households > # household capable of handling 1080p streams.

And that will be the case for the next 10-15 years minimum. So where is blu-ray going?

Local store renting isn't of concern to anyone. There are a few holdouts, but online services and Netflix have guaranteed the failure of the large video rental stores.

Sorry I'm not into movies by mail and if I want to rent a blu-ray I'm going to to local Movie Gallery and most people are the same way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596716 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:27:54 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596703 Rook008 : I really hope that the future of broadband isn't caps or per-byte billing. I would hope it's more things like fiber to the home and cable's way of competing with it.
Why not a system where you can stream it, if you like it, pay a couple of dollars more to keep it on your set-top-box or whatever. It sounds very convenient. Wishful thinking maybe. :)
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596703 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:25:17 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596679 BF69 :

said by Matt

said by BF69

:

What a bunch of crock. Anybody with FACTS would know blu-ray is AHEAD of DVD at the same point in time in it's lifecycle. what are blu-ray sales year to year compared with DVD? MUCH better. Yeah sound like failure to me.

DVD sales were down 9% in 2008,

The overall decline was the largest-ever registered by DEG.

On a brighter note, DEG reports that Blu-ray spending was up threefold in 2008, to $750 million.

»www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/01/08···hreefold

Also in it's first 3 years 6.6 milion DVD players were sold in the US

So far about 4.3 million non-PS3 blu-ray palyers have been sold in the US. Now if you considered the bad economy and the fact the DVD didn't have a format war, I think that's good. Not to mention that one would assume that at least SOME of those PS3 owners use their units to watch blu-ray movies. Plus one has to factor in that one has to have a HDTV to get the benefit of blu-ray which only about 1/3 of US holdholds have at the moment. Between 1997-2000 100% of households in the US that had TVs had a TV capable of watching DVD.

By X-mas 2010 all of this "death of blu-ray" will seem like silly nonsense. Until 90% of the us has at least 10 Mbps connections and caps go away or are at least in the 500 GB-1 TB range, physial media is here to stay.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596679 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:22:03 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596627 PlanNine : Streaming and downloadable 1080p content is going to suffer a lot if and when ISP's start putting in either hard caps or go to per MB billing scenario's. The files are going to be huge after all.

Just because someone can supply great 1080p content online doesn't mean your ISP wants to support people downloading it. ISP's are already trying to find ways to bill us for more while providing less bandwidth to use per month.

Kind of like Apple and the iPhone. The phone supports things AT&T doesn't even support, thus partially crippling the device. It won't do any good to have a streaming box at home if you can't afford to download stuff to it.

That alone I think will give BR the edge in the long run.

I also think that many people, myself included, like having a "hard copy" in our hands of something we buy. Just like with books.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596627 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:14:22 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596619 Rook008 : What is this...Wikipedia? :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596619 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:13:03 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596613 Matt :

said by drew

said by sholling

said by ncbill

:

Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.

Citation needed

lolz. this is the internets. citations are not required. :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596613 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:12:00 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596599 Matt :

said by sholling

:

Now there is a technology that's going away. Fewer and fewer companies are making plasma TVs as the market moves on to LCD and newer technologies.

LCD and Plasma have distinct advantages. I personally prefer the look of plasma over all but the highest end LCDs. A quick perusal of Samsung's site shows no less than 19 new 1080p plasma HDTV's.

I think it may seem like there are more LCDs because you don't see plasma HDTV sets in the smaller sizes. You see LCDs all the way down to 22" or so, but plasmas start at 42".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596599 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:10:04 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596568 drew :

said by sholling

said by ncbill

:

Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.

Citation needed
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596568 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:05:57 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596556 sholling :

said by ncbill

:

Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.

720 sets are still much cheaper than 1080 - 1/3 less for the 42" plasma I bought just 6 months ago.

Now there is a technology that's going away. Fewer and fewer companies are making plasma TVs as the market moves on to LCD and newer technologies.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596556 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:04:58 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596534 Matt : BF69

for all the reasons you stated, there are no (that I know of) 1080p online services available because the infrastructure isn't there to support it right now. However, all one has to do is look at the rate at which speeds have increased over the past few years to realize they will continue to increase. Rural users who are on dial-up or satellite aren't the target market for online delivery of video. There will always be exceptions to every service.

Aside from that, the services don't have to stream the content. Services like the XBox Marketplace download the movie before allowing you to watch it. So even if you only have a 10Mbps connection, that's about 2 hours to download. Not all that big of a deal.

Local store renting isn't of concern to anyone. There are a few holdouts, but online services and Netflix have guaranteed the failure of the large video rental stores.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596534 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:01:24 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596450 BF69 :

said by Matt

:

I do think 1080p downloadable content is going to be a serious threat to Blu-Ray though. If you think about it, a NetFlix membership w/ Blu-Ray is ~$10/month for the 1 at a time plan. That 4-5 movies a month. You can get great 1080p content in a 10Mbps-12Mbps stream, even less as codecs advance. That's about 15GB for a movie ... or 16 movies a month with Comcast's 250GB cap.

What about ISP with smaleer caps. Charter has a 250 cap but only for those with the 20 Mbps tier. Everyone else is 100 GB. At&t non U-verse cap tops out at 80 GB. TW as we all know is testing a 40 GB cap.

Also as you said you need 10-12 Mbps stream. How many people have access to that? Of those that have access how many are willing to pay the extra cost of that? Millions of people live in areas where dial-up, satellite are the only option for internet. The entertainment industry would be very stupid to stop trying to sell to them.

Thridly Nexflixs blu-ray choices are slim. As far as peole talking about price of disc. Well my local Movie Gallery rents them for $5. Since I never typically by movies anyways how is this a great expense?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596450 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:49:11 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596413 Rook008 : I see.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596413 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:42:25 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596387 BF69 :

said by dvd536

said by sholling

:

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.

Probably profile v1

So? Most people don't care about crap like the ability to purchase crap online from the movie. Most people just want to watch the movie.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596387 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:38:00 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596360 BF69 :

said by dadkins

said by Rook008

:

I agree that Blu-Ray just needs time, but DVD was a huge step up from what many were using when DVD was introduced (VHS tapes). Except for better Video and Audio, if you have the right set-up to see and hear the difference, Blu-Ray isn't such an improvement over DVD.

I'll say this I have never seen blu-ray on a 720p TV, but I can sure tell a differnce between a show in 480i and one in 720p even on a 32 inch TV. So logic would dictate I would be able to tell at least SOME kind of difference between a blu-ray movie even if down converted to 720p and a 420p DVD.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596360 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:34:06 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596346 Matt :

said by Rook008

:

I was curious because I downloaded America's Army 3 yesterday and the 3.3 GB download took less than an hour, and my connection is about half of the speed of something like Fios.

And I hear that it's possible to download full DVD's and even HD movies over an internet connection. I figured that those speeds probably weren't very common back then.

You can get 720p movies from online services like Amazon Unbox and through an XBox 360/PS3. Most 720p movies are in the 4GB-6GB range.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596346 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:32:24 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596337 Matt :

said by BF69

I tried to find Blu-Ray vs DVD sales numbers but couldn't dig anything up. Would you mind posting your links? I think that is a very telling metric and if Blu-Ray is outselling DVD at the same time post-release, lends credence to the argument that Blu-Ray is doing very well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596337 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:31:21 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596327 BF69 : What a bunch of crock. Anybody with FACTS would know blu-ray is AHEAD of DVD at the same point in time in it's lifecycle. what are blu-ray sales year to year compared with DVD? MUCH better. Yeah sound like failure to me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596327 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:28:58 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596315 Rook008 : I was curious because I downloaded America's Army 3 yesterday and the 3.3 GB download took less than an hour, and my connection is about half of the speed of something like Fios.

And I hear that it's possible to download full DVD's and even HD movies over an internet connection. I figured that those speeds probably weren't very common back then.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596315 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:27:59 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596283 r81984 : YES]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596283 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:23:33 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596250 Matt :

said by Rook008

:

I don't really know, but was movie piracy a big thing back when DVD first came out?

That's a very valid point ... and no, not in the sense that it is now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596250 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:18:00 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596227 Rook008 : I don't really know, but was movie piracy a big thing back when DVD first came out?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596227 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:12:28 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596002 tlniec : I have a 720p display, and I would call the difference between Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD - yes, I still have my ol' HD-A3 player, too) and upconverted DVD quite dramatic. At least, on any discs I have so far.
But my situation probably isn't typical. My 720p display is a front projector, shooting onto a 106" screen, viewed from about 13' away. So size/distance works out pretty favorably.
I still find DVDs to be watchable. But the lack of spatial and color resolution does not go unnoticed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22596002 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:29:48 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595918 anon : LaserDisc Tried to replace VHS and fail. DVD intended to replace LaserDisc and felt like it happened overnight with some serious BANG!

now as for Blue-Ray. It has not put a dot on DVD. Technically Blue-Ray by FAR a superior Video Format but as far as a hick is concerned in middle America, DVD upscale is just Pur-fect.

Blue-Ray has huge obstacles in front of it. I as for one have a CRT that is mind blowingly fantastic. I personally would not Need/Want a Blue-Ray because the quality of Blue-Ray on a component is DVD like and Hence no reason to cough up dough just to waste it.

Also, if you REALLY want to tell the difference of the up scaling of the DVD which is almost unnoticeable unless you are seriously looking for it. And even then it does not justify the price.

So, as a Format war with DVD, Blue-Ray has failed miserably. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595918 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:16:22 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595882 Matt : Great thoughts all. I agree with a lot of what was said and I'm not saying Blu-Ray isn't a phenomenal format. 1080p w/ DTS 7.1 will absolutely floor you. I am not an audiophile by any means (128Kbps MP3 is perfectly fine for me) and even I can hear the difference in DTS and Dolby Digital.

I do think 1080p downloadable content is going to be a serious threat to Blu-Ray though. If you think about it, a NetFlix membership w/ Blu-Ray is ~$10/month for the 1 at a time plan. That 4-5 movies a month. You can get great 1080p content in a 10Mbps-12Mbps stream, even less as codecs advance. That's about 15GB for a movie ... or 16 movies a month with Comcast's 250GB cap. Even if you doubled the size of that 1080p content to 30GB, (that's the size of the data on most Blu-Ray discs right now) that's still more movies per month than you can get with Netflix.

So while the things Cringley mentions may have slowed the uptake of Blu-Ray, I think what ultimate will relegate it to a format for cinephiles will be 1080p downloadable content. If given the choice, most people would much rather have a slighter lesser quality version right now than a higher quality version next week. The *BIG* caveat to this is DRM. That will ultimately make or break downloadable content.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595882 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:07:48 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595825 Jmartz :

said by Greg_Z

:

Cost is one reason that it is not being adopted, and with the recession, people are not purchasing the toys like they where 2 years ago. Give BR another 2 years, and you will see another price drop, and once the discs get cheaper, then maybe more people will adopt.

I don't think price has anything to do with it. I think most people aren't ready to upgrade movies they already have, and have only had for a couple years.

If price in this economy is really an issue, why did Apple sell 1 million iPhones last weekend? Granted, they weren't all sold in the USA, but still... that's a pretty impressive amount of sales in a global economy that stinks right now.

They need to push Bluray better. If they want it to take off, they need to stop manufacturing movies in the SD format and release only Bluray. Until you see movie studios retiring the old format, it's going to be a tough sell. People will pay, but most will not buy the same movie for $10 more just for Bluray. Netflix increased my rate by 25% last month just for Bluray access. I promptly removed it from my subscription.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595825 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:55:36 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595716 ncbill : Most HDTVs already in the U.S. market are going to be 720, not 1080.

720 sets are still much cheaper than 1080 - 1/3 less for the 42" plasma I bought just 6 months ago.

For the price difference I was able to buy a TivoHD, a HD-DVD player (to use as an upscaling DVD player), and a region-free upscaling DVD player w/ HDMI out.

I knew I sat "too far" back from the TV to tell the difference.

I suspect most people's viewing distance is also too far back to tell the difference between 720 and 1080 unless they buy a 50" or larger HDTV.

It's plausible that in 5 years every HDTV shipping will be 1080, but today picking 720p instead saves the consumer serious money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595716 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:32:23 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595505 anon : I say it's too soon to tell. While I love my DMP BD55, the step up in picture for most people, on most TVs, isn't that big a deal. Few have the equipment to make BD shine. That will change in time. I think the elephant in the corner is that young people (I can't be accused of that) just as soon watch a movie on a crappy netbook, and listen to music from low bit MP3s. Convenience and being able to get it free are more important to them than quality. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595505 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:53:03 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595484 tcope : So Dish is free now? Comparing the cost of Dish vs a BRD does not make sense and not what the tread is about.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595484 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:41:09 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595482 yock : I think something that gets overlooked are the more practical benefits of DVD versus VHS. People eagerly migrated to DVDs over their old tapes because they're take up less space, they don't need rewound, and they're far more durable. Not one of those benefits are realized in BRD, which means that people must convince themselves that their investment must purely be for entertainment value.

I agree with Cringely's assessment of Apple here; they're waiting for practical online delivery of 1080p video. It's in that market where consumers can once again realize the space savings and product durability that added value to the first home video migration.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595482 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:40:39 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595408 mikefxu : If you have a 1080P TV and your eyes are young/fresh enough to see the difference between 480i/p and 1080p then Blu-Ray is a success. If you do not have a 1080P TV and cannot discern the difference then Blu-Ray is a failure for you. The cost of entry for Blu-Ray is high. For me 42" 1080P TV $600, PS3 $350, and surround sound (optional) $200. So $1,150 to enjoy Blu-Ray properly. I am sure there are a few people that do not run HDMI between the Blu-Ray device and 1080P TV and do not get the full experience.
--
6 Wireless Workstations: WildBlue Satellite:WildBlue-1 Gateway:Laredo Beam:123 on 1.5Mbps/256Kbps plan at Knob Noster, Missouri.

5 Wireless Workstations: WildBlue Beam: 32 on 1.0Mbps/200Kbps plan at Pueblo Pintado, New Mexico.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595408 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:21:01 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595306 HeadSpinning : While I admit that Blu-Ray on a 1080p TV looks incredibly sharp, watching the same movie on an up converting DVD player doesn't really take much if any of the enjoyment experience away. Ultimately, the point of any video entertainment system is to entertain, and I honestly don't get enough extra entertainment value from Blu-Ray to justify the increased cost.

Sure there is a geek factor in having the highest res, biggest screen and all that, but a well written and directed movie with great actors won't be significantly improved by all that, nor will a box office flop.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595306 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:41:10 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594997 anon : I have found a much cheaper alternative- recording Dish 1080i to my 1000 gig ext, harddrive. I now have 162 HD movies for 800 gig. its going to work out to be about 50 cents per movie and every one is available on demand from the remote (channel guide info works too)-no discs to deal with or buy.
You do not need the expensive HD DVR, their regular HD box can record too with its usb port. You have to pay a one time $40 fee to activate all your boxes for usb recording. Since I have 3 HD boxes I plan to attach USB harddrives to all and eventually have over 800 1080i movies and events costing about $300 to store and have instantly available.
By the way the quality is perfect with no gaps or freezes in full surround sound.
While I don't think blu-ray is or will be a failure it will remain for the few that have to have the very best at any price, for me I am content with 1080i and I have grown tired of dealing with new equipment and discs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594997 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:17:54 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595213 sbcretired : Since I cant afford a 50"tv, nor do I want one, the occasional movie I rent will look fine on a dvd. Besides I have a dvd on my computer and it all interexchanges, throw the cost of blue ray changeover in that and its just more XHIT to mix things up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595213 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 06:36:01 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595060 Rook008 : Yeah, from around 4 or so feet, it does look better. Just not better enough (is that even English?) to warrant the price increase. Plus it seems a bit too close to sit to watch TV.
And a 60" TV (8 foot viewing distance) was a bit too far out of my price range.

As for the VHS to DVD transition, the physical media, extras on disc, and ease of use (chapter selection, language and subtitle selection, no more rewinding tape! etc.) were also much better when switching. The slightly better video and audio was just one improvement over VHS.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595060 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:28:11 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595042 dadkins :

said by Rook008

:

I think you've mentioned that you can see the difference somewhere before. :)

But for the Blu-Ray experience to be really different, you would need a Blu-Ray Player, a 1080p TV, a receiver that can output the improved Audio, and be within the proper viewing range. The first time I watched some 1080p content on my 37" LCD from about 8 feet away, I was not blown away. Re-arranging my TV room seemed like too much to ask for a better picture.

This is where research is key.
I did the math - 22" from my 17" 1920x1200 laptop - spot on!
My 42" 1080p HDTV and 5.5-6 feet away - well within the ideal range for fully resolved 1080.

8 feet with a 37"? No doubt you can't see the difference.
Try it from 4 feet.

With Old School TVs, VHS to DVD is a questionable step up(at any distance).
On a semi-decent HDTV, at the proper distance, DVD to Blu-ray is very discernible.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595042 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:11:20 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595035 KrK : Blu-Ray will do just fine as soon as they stop trying to sell Blu-Ray movies for a premium over DVD.

As soon as Blu-Ray discs and DVD discs are the same retail price, Blu-Ray will go up like a rocket.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595035 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:06:16 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595031 sholling :

said by dvd536

said by sholling

:

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.

Probably profile v1

1.1
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595031 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:04:07 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595024 dvd536 :

said by sholling

:

Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common.

Probably profile v1
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595024 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:01:10 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595014 dvd536 : As was David, I was also blown away by blu ray.
Now i have to really like a movie to pay the $10+ premium you pay for the blu ray version.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595014 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:56:12 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595012 sholling : In my opinion Cringley has pretty much always been a pretentious idiot. Blu-Ray stumbled for a long time because of the format wars. Those are all over and BD won.

The second stumble was the price of the player. Sears.com had Blu-Ray players for $100 this past weekend, and $160 is getting common. Adjusted for inflation that's about what I paid for my first DVD player and about 1/10 what I paid for my first VCR. I put the magic price point for mass uptake at $125. We're getting close.

The rate of BD adoption by consumers is also exceeding the rate of early DVD adoption. As the price comes down adoption accelerates just like it did for DVD.

His third hoof-in-mouth was siting replacement of DVD collections as a milestone. Most people aren't even considering it. It took a decade for that to happen with the move from VCR to DVD. I've only replaced a few favorites - but all new purchases are Blu-Ray and if you catch a sale you can get some really reasonable prices. I think I paid $39 for the BD Band of Brothers in a collectors tin. But like most I rent.

His 4th fallacy (idiocy?) is that there aren't enough HDTVs. With the change to digital and the adoption of flat screen as the must have item for every home he's living in the past. Yes there will be Luddites with old tube sets and a VCR but flat screen HDTVs are now mainstream. Just try to buy anything else. ;)

Will Bu-Ray survive? Probably for at least 10 years. Look how long laser disc lasted. Will it become the new mainstream format, possibly and if so it will have staying power. Frankly I have less confidence in the 1080P download services taking off in less than 10 years. 20% of the county can't get anything like broadband, 2/3 of those with broadband don't have the necessary speed, and those with fast enough connections are getting slapped with caps.

I think it's an open question, but no more so than DVD was when it started out. Price of the players and the videos is the key.
--
"Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
--FREDERIC BASTIAT--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595012 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:54:35 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595001 Rook008 : I think you've mentioned that you can see the difference somewhere before. :)

But for the Blu-Ray experience to be really different, you would need a Blu-Ray Player, a 1080p TV, a receiver that can output the improved Audio, and be within the proper viewing range. The first time I watched some 1080p content on my 37" LCD from about 8 feet away, I was not blown away. Re-arranging my TV room seemed like too much to ask for a better picture.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22595001 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:46:25 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594984 dadkins :

said by Rook008

Many people(seen it here even) are displaying Blu-ray on 720p HDTVs and they have stated there isn't that great of a difference - well, Yeah!
You're only missing a million pixels.

If you have a good 1080p HDTV and are viewing it from the proper distance for fully resolved 1080p - you can really see the difference.
Just switching channels on your HDTV service you can tell between the 720 channels and the 1080 channels.

Blu-ray -1920x1080.
vs
DVD - 720x480.

*I* can sure see the difference.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594984 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:33:09 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594961 Rook008 : I agree that Blu-Ray just needs time, but DVD was a huge step up from what many were using when DVD was introduced (VHS tapes). Except for better Video and Audio, if you have the right set-up to see and hear the difference, Blu-Ray isn't such an improvement over DVD.
--
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594961 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:21:16 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594930 dadkins : Blu-ray just celebrated it's 3 year birthday - June 20, 2006.
3 years in and Blu-ray is doing way better than DVD did, and prices are dropping WAY faster than DVD has.

How many years did DVD take to be adopted?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594930 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:05:17 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594877 djrobx :

said by dadkins

:

DVDs are SD, period!
HDTVs need a HD source.
Cable and Sat - they do ok.
OTA is better!
Blu-ray stomps them all in the weeds.

DVDs may be SD, but they're mostly anamorphic widescreen and film material can be output in progressive scan mode, which makes them look significantly better than typical broadcast SD on HDTVs.

Bluray simply isn't cheap enough for average people to get that itch to start collecting. They need to drop those prices to DVD levels really soon, because online/VOD rental convenience WILL eat into their potential market. People are easily fooled into thinking that 1080p online rentals are "bluray quality" just as they think horrid XM/Sirius satellite radio is "CD quality".

DVD really exploded when the sub-$10 bargain bins started popping up. Bluray needs to folllow that example.

Although I'm a fan of high quality, even I have to admit, on my 50" plasma, MPEG-4 HD movies converted down to DVD size (4.7gb) still looks very good, much better than DVD.

--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594877 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:43:01 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594848 Rook008 : Not a failure, but not "there" yet, either. Prices coming down should help.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594848 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:32:08 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594840 GameGuy369 : I think most people who get a 50"+ TV tend to want a Blu-Ray player of some sort if they like movies. Not all, but I would think most.

My situation was backwards, I had a PS3 hooked up to a 27" tube. Then I hooked up a 42" 1080p and never looked back. Now I have it hooked up to a 67" 1080p and I be damned if I watch anything less than the highest quality,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594840 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:29:54 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594778 Loco : Yep, it's a big failure.

I have a Sony Blu-Ray player here at home and we rarely even use it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594778 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:09:10 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594744 dadkins : As the digital age ascends upon us, more and more people will be getting new HDTVs.
No amount of up-conversion can ever get close to Blu-ray - and after dropping 1-4 Grand on a new killer display, people will want to feed it the best available.

Hate to break this news to people, Blu-ray is it! ;)
Been trying to tell people for years now(just like way back when with DVDs), New and Improved!

DVDs are SD, period!
HDTVs need a HD source.
Cable and Sat - they do ok.
OTA is better!
Blu-ray stomps them all in the weeds.

Streaming or downloads? When ISPs are starting to cap us?
Yeah, that'll work out well, won't it? :uhh:
Nothing will ever replace Physical Media.
If my internet chokes and pukes, I can still play one of my discs.
If I am away, I can still play one of my discs.
If I come visit you, I can bring a few of my discs.

These articles and "blogs" are amusing! LOL!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594744 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:52:18 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594605 howie : It took a number of years for DVD to surpass VHS as the home video format of choice and I think the same is true of BD. As more and more consumers replace their aging square CRT TV's for new HDTV's, High Definition Blu-Ray home videos will slowly, but surely, replace SD DVD's as people will want to get the best viewing experience out of their new HDTV's. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594605 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:12:56 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594504 Its a Secret : Dude, get off the ganj.

All formats were designed to replace the predecessors, to keep those bucks rolling in.

Hollywood: The gift that keeps on screwing you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594504 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:51:17 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594283 e_dub : I don't think it's a failure because like that blog; it has the same misconception/mis-information as other posts, blogs, articles, etc....
Blu-ray was is not intended to replace DVD only compete/offer better video and audio. ( DVD was not made to replace VCR, it just eventually took over)
Up-converting DVD is not close to blu-ray, why are many kidding themselves. The sound of blu-ray is amazing.
Unlike like VCR & DVD battle back in the day, DVD vs Blu battle is hindered by the recession.
I'm not saying Blu-ray would be winning by now if there's wasn't a recession, but this topic would have been dead a long time ago.
Unless we get bandwidth like Korea, Japan, China or EU with no caps, video downloading will not knock out blu-ray anytime soon.
I have a large DVD collection and I still watch DVDs, but any movie I buy now is on blu-ray. I have a 1080p projector, a receiver that decodes all HD audio so why would I prefer DVD, HD streaming or downloads. Neither can give me 1080p and HD audio at the same time. (unless it's torrent download of blu-ray movies :D )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22594283 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:02:50 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22593951 Jahntassa : If they truly intended Blu-ray to replace DVD then yes, it failed.

As one of the few ways to view 1080p content, then not really.

There is no chance of it going mainstream with the recession and high prices of discs / players.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22593951 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:45:18 EDT Re: Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22593949 Greg_Z : Cost is one reason that it is not being adopted, and with the recession, people are not purchasing the toys like they where 2 years ago. Give BR another 2 years, and you will see another price drop, and once the discs get cheaper, then maybe more people will adopt.

Also factor in the live streaming abilities with Netflix, Xbox online, Amazon.com, also people are choosing to stream vs purchasing discs.
--
I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22593949 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:45:10 EDT Is Blu-Ray a Failure? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22593767 Matt : »www.cringely.com/2009/06/is-blu-···failure/

I enjoy reading Robert X. Cringley's thoughts and today he published a blog post that I think has merit. Blu-Ray - as it was intended - has been a failure. He postulates that Blu-Ray was intended to do for DVD what DVD did for Blu-Ray ... that is, get you to replace your movie library with Blu-Ray discs. So far, that isn't happening.

He has a few different thoughts as to why, but less than stellar sales of the PS3, the competition from upconversion DVD players, the resistance to adoption by other companies such as Apple because of the impending 1080p video download market, and the fact that most people had to not only buy a Blu-Ray player, but an HDTV to go along with it, are a few reasons he throws out.

He agrees that among cinephiles, Blu-Ray is and will continue to be a run-away success, but that is a small percentage of the market - Cringley states 5% which I think is generous. The rest of the folks are perfectly happy with non Blu-Ray sources for the reasons mentioned above.

My opinion is he's right. I have a Blu-Ray player, but that's because I built a HTPC and needed a DVD drive for it anyway. Otherwise, I'd be perfectly happy with online delivery methods and DVD upconversion. Non-techies like most of my family don't care either way and certainly aren't rushing out to replace their DVD collections with Blu-Ray discs.

So, what say you? Is Blu-Ray shaping up to be a failure even though it is without a doubt a gorgeous format?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22593767 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:15:06 EDT