KrK
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Re: TiVo gains second judgment against Echostar
The whole case is BS in the first place, and having Echostar over a barrel because they couldn't just turn everybody's PVR's off.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Actually, the defense was what was BS. Did you even read up on the case? |
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KrK
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| Nonsense. Another Tivo Fanboi.... or one of those Dish haters.
I still own my ReplayTV and showstopper, and am very familar with the details of these cases and DVR patents.
Tivo is acting like another Rambus.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Eat Me
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| said by KrK  :Nonsense. Another Tivo Fanboi.... or one of those Dish haters. I still own my ReplayTV and showstopper, and am very familar with the details of these cases and DVR patents. Tivo is acting like another Rambus. That doesn't matter.
They own the patents so they can make the profit.
Don't like it, go invent your own technology. |
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DCIFRTHS
join:2000-02-18
Hartsdale, NY
| reply to KrK
Re: TiVo gains second judgment against Echostar
said by KrK :The whole case is BS in the first place, and having Echostar over a barrel because they couldn't just turn everybody's PVR's off. Yeah. Echostar stealing from another company is the right thing to do. |
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KrK
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said by Eat Me :Don't like it, go invent your own technology. That's the problem. Instead of patenting the method, they have patents on the concepts or very ideas.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK
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Tulsa, OK | reply to DCIFRTHS
That's not what happened, and everybody knows it.
It's easy to say they just copied everything. |
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DCIFRTHS
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| said by KrK :That's not what happened, and everybody knows it. It's easy to say they just copied everything. Apparently the judge, and jury, don't agree with you... |
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Bit
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I'll invent a device that records desired shows by voice. I don't actually have to figure out how the whole voice recognition things works or anything. I'll wait for a REAL company to work that out, let them deploy it for a few years, then sue them for patent infringement.
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Bit
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00000 | reply to DCIFRTHS
Just like patenting prior art is the "right" thing to do?
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Bit
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1 edit | reply to DCIFRTHS
Yeah, 'cause juries and judges always get it right, just as O.J.
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KrK
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Yeah, but it doesn't make them right.
Firstly, Dish WAS developing their own DVR prior to the much ballyhooed "Tivo demos." In fact, I remember they were working with Microsoft at the time. MS briefly promoted their "Ultimate TV" box but quickly withdrew it or cancelled it. I remember Echostar got with MS and had them develop software.
Engineers testified at the trial that the Echostar DVR's were not based on Tivo's hardware or software but on inhouse developed code.
It really doesn't matter, what it all boils down to is Tivo won patents and then the features Echostar was using *were* infringing on those patents, so they win. However it bugs me when people say it's "Stolen" or "copied" and that the judgements are deserved. They're legal, alright, but hardly "fair". There's a reason DirecTV bought up ReplayTV's patent portfolio. It becomes a shield against Tivo. Personally I think the Tivo patents are overly broad in scope and patent not just a method but a concept or idea, and they they were granted while prior art or at least co-developing DVR's were clearly evident. Some of the patents they have also seem to seriously violate the "Obviousness" of extensions of existing technology.
So, heads, Tivo wins, tails, Echostar loses. But that doesn't mean it's a just ruling. It's just a legal one.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
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1 edit | reply to KrK
said by KrK :Instead of patenting the method, they have patents on the concepts or very ideas. Incorrect. You seem to need to read up on what you're talking about before you post.
said by KrK :But that doesn't mean it's a just ruling. It's just a legal one. The perfect rationalization for whatever you want to be right is to just say that your way is the only "just" way. How incredibly self-serving. And utterly ridiculous. |
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KrK
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| Oh FFS. Whatever, your agenda is right, blah blah.
Simple fact: Echostar didn't steal Tivo's code, period.
The Tivo patent is based on pre-existing work.
There were other DVR's besides Tivo's in development, including Echostar's concurrently
IMHO the patent shouldn't be granted in the first place, but it was, so it's a moot point.... but I'll be damned if I let myths and lies slide by as if they were historical fact.
It doesn't affect the outcome, but the outcome is just as unjust now as it was then. Believe what you wish, but pardon me for not supporting an injustice when I see it.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Bit
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4 edits | reply to bicker
You should actually bother to read some of TiVo's patents, like their TV viewer interface patent 6757906 which is absolutely prior art (EPG 4751578 from 1985). TiVo in their patent laid claim to on screen guides, searching, selection and control, all of which are patented prior art. TiVo ads some background animation to the EPG patent and claimed it as their own and the PTO bought it hook line and sinker. A "more/next" arrow, what an innovation...never saw one of those before 1997. Gemstar (formerly Starsight) has similar patents from 1995 for interactive on screen menuing including scrolling and searching based on program characteristics, etc. They also had PiP and contextual linking within the guide. Hell the 1994-1995 Samsung Starsight enabled VCR could do most of what TiVo shows in their GUI patent.
Same goes for simultaneous recording and playback, TiVo didn't invent it.
TiVo didn't invent crap and the PTO screwed up granting patents for prior art as they frequently do.
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pandora
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Re: TiVo gains second judgment against Echostar
OK,
I believe you. Why didn't Charlie bring this stuff up in court? 200 million dollars is going to hurt Dish, but its really going to hurt Dish customers who eventually have to pay it.
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DCIFRTHS
join:2000-02-18
Hartsdale, NY
| reply to Bit
said by Bit :You should actually bother to read some of TiVo's patents, like their TV viewer interface patent 6757906 which is absolutely prior art (EPG 4751578 from 1985). TiVo in their patent laid claim to on screen guides, searching, selection and control, all of which are patented prior art. TiVo ads some background animation to the EPG patent and claimed it as their own and the PTO bought it hook line and sinker. A "more/next" arrow, what an innovation...never saw one of those before 1997. Gemstar (formerly Starsight) has similar patents from 1995 for interactive on screen menuing including scrolling and searching based on program characteristics, etc. They also had PiP and contextual linking within the guide. Hell the 1994-1995 Samsung Starsight enabled VCR could do most of what TiVo shows in their GUI patent. Same goes for simultaneous recording and playback, TiVo didn't invent it. TiVo didn't invent crap and the PTO screwed up granting patents for prior art as they frequently do. ... and TiVo had to strike a deal with Gemstar aka TV Guide Inc. (who has that AMAZING patent for using a spreadsheet to view TV shows  ). Gemstar had the patent, and TiVo had to concede. This is the way it works. |
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