friedman
join:2009-04-30
1 edit | reply to Cheese
Re: What carrier controls your phone number?
"* Original Telephone Company Name: [ TCG SOUTH FLORIDA ]"
BTW, "TCG" is Teleport Communications Group, a CLEC based in Staten Island, NY that AT&T purchased in the late 1990's when it was moving into the local phone business. (This was the old AT&T, the IXC, that was at the time only selling long-distance service.) So any reference to TCG essentially means AT&T.
I've seen references to TCG a few times before on this forum. |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| said by friedman  :I've seen references to TCG a few times before on this forum. Methinks that "cheese" obtained his phone number from AT&T Call Vantage! |
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PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
 ·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| TCG = Teleport Communications Group?
Are you sure it's not Tin Can Group? 
No, actually TCG has an interesting history and there were a lot of good folks there. You may want to read this:
»www.networkworld.com/news/0112tcg.html |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
1 edit | reply to RockyBB
said by RockyBB :said by friedman :I've seen references to TCG a few times before on this forum. Methinks that "cheese" obtained his phone number from AT&T Call Vantage! I use CDV  Although, the number did originate from Packet8 |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
1 edit | said by Cheese :said by RockyBB : Methinks that "cheese" obtained his phone number from AT&T Call Vantage! I use CDV Although, the number did originate from Packet8 further evidence that RockyBB doesn't have all the [right] answers!  |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| said by RockyBB :said by Cheese :said by RockyBB : Methinks that "cheese" obtained his phone number from AT&T Call Vantage! I use CDV Although, the number did originate from Packet8 further evidence that RockyBB doesn't have all the answers! |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to Mr Privacy
Out of curiosity, do you have a POTS line? Is your POTS number unlisted? If you call another POTS customer, does it show your name with your number, or does it show "Private Number"? Which would you want it to show, your name or "private number"?
I'm not asking to be argumentative, but to suggest that you consider calling your provider (especially if a POTS line--after all, they determined the gold standard by being the only game in town for quite some time), and talk to a customer service rep. Ask them what happens if you OPT OUT of directory listing by purchasing an unlisted number--does a person receiving a call from you see your number AND name, or number and "Private Caller"? I would think that a POTS company would NOT put your name in the LIDB (that shows up on CID display boxes) when you pay for an unlisted number, but just because it makes sense doesn't make it reality. Keep in mind that with a POTS line, your name is LISTED by default, and you have to OPT OUT of directory listing (by paying extra, even).
Think about it... If someone wanted to 'mine' this data, all they'd have to do is create a 'reverse robodialer' using a VoIP provider that allows callers with PBX systems to set their own CID number, always calling the same (POTS?) line that has CNAM service. Of course, at 10,000 numbers per exchange, it would take quite a while to get even a small fraction of the number-name pairs...
Don't get me wrong--you're welcome to your opinion, and do feel free to post it. IMO, you are overly concerned. There are easier ways (generally paid services) to find people if you're disgruntled with someone and want to find them than a service like this. |
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PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| said by Fisamo :There are easier ways (generally paid services) to find people if you're disgruntled with someone and want to find them than a service like this. This is very true.
In many counties of the USA, the county clerks have made online searchable databases where you can look up someone's name and find the house that they own.
And services such as:
»www.zabasearch.com/
»www.people-finders.ws/default.asp
»spmorse.s467.sureserver.com/birt···ay2.html
and MANY others----
mean that it's pretty easy to find someone. |
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NY Tel
Premium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY | reply to RockyBB
Reminds me of the days when the Bell System had a CNA Bureau.
You dialed an "official" phone number and you asked them for the name associated with the phone number.
A live operator read the name and address to you. |
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Bryan001
Premium
join:2002-08-17
Saint Louis, MO
| reply to Mr Privacy
said by Mr Privacy :
I don't know if you're deliberately being provocative or just don't get it, but the point is that it's a very different thing to allow someone to get your name when YOU are calling THEM, as opposed to allowing any ne'er-do-well with a computer to type a number that they think might be yours and get confirmation of that fact, or for some other reason to get a name when they only have a number.
All I have to say is, this site had better make sure they are operating very solidly within the boundaries of the law AND of any agreements they may have with whomever they are getting this information from. All it's going to take is for some disgruntled associate/ex-spouse/significant other to use this service to confirm which of several possible numbers belongs to the person they want to locate/harass/kill and my bet would be that there is going to be a major lawsuit (I hope that never happens, but at least I'm not naive enough to think a service like this will never be used for nefarious purposes). This is data that was not intended to be supplied to all comers in this manner, and I certainly wouldn't want to be the person or persons behind this site when someone misuses it with tragic results.
I don't mean to scare you, but you should try putting a listed number into google sometime, the results may surprise you. |
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Mr Privacy
@anonymouse.org
| reply to Fisamo
Out of curiosity, do you have a POTS line? Is your POTS number unlisted? If you call another POTS customer, does it show your name with your number, or does it show "Private Number"? Which would you want it to show, your name or "private number"? I haven't had a POTS line in years, but if I DID have one I would prefer my real name be shown, as long as it wasn't available to anyone that could just type the number in on a web site! Anyway, what the POTS company does is now irrelevant to me. The point is that MOST independent VoIP providers (that is, those not affiliated with a cable company) do not give you a number that is listed in the directory or with directory assistance - and that's a GOOD thing, in my opinion - but they do send your name as part of Caller ID, and there's no mechanism to get them to change that.
I have Googled several VoIP numbers I know of and none of them show the name (at least not for free - I'm not about to pay any of those services that Google brings up to see what they think they have).
As for local governments putting too much personal information online, I think a lot of local agencies are starting to see the error of their ways. It usually happens when some "prominent citizen" finds that his privacy is being trashed by the county/city/township and makes a stink about it. Local governments have to be responsive to local citizens, and if enough locals decide that too much information is online, it can be made to disappear. That's not to say it's no longer a problem; apparently some local government agencies are still thick as a brick. But then again, I don't know of any local government site that lets you type in an unlisted phone number and get back information on the person associated with that number. Also remember that people can opt out of giving a phone number to a government agency just by leaving that space blank on forms, etc. - most agencies don't question it; those that do will usually let it go if you say the number is unlisted. But, the phone companies have your name and number, and if they are a POTS company they hold your privacy hostage unless you pay them "hush money" every month (one good reason not to do business with a POTS company).
I still strongly suspect that the site under discussion here goes beyond the bounds of legality (but note that I Am Not a Lawyer) because they are misusing data that was never intended to be used in this way. Let me put it this way, if someone could type in random Social Security numbers on some site and get back the names associated with them, don't you think people would rightfully be upset? Bad guys can in some cases do damage with just a name and phone number. And don't say, yes, but such sites already exist - first of all, if they do they aren't free, so the barrier to just mining information is much higher, and second, just because there may be 100 other people on the road speeding doesn't mean you will be immune from getting a ticket if you are number 101 to go past the cop with the radar gun. It's just my opinion that's somebody's going to get the pants sued off them (or maybe they will be heavily fined by the FCC or some other federal agency) for providing this sort of information improperly, particularly if the site is used to inflict personal injury (physical or emotional damage) or leads to loss of life or property.
If this site had any concerns for people's privacy, they'd at least provide some type of opt-out method, and since they don't it's obvious they don't give a flying fig about who they hurt. No matter how much lipstick you put on this pig, it's still a pig in my point of view - they are doing something they really should not be doing. They are like the creepy guy in the high-rise apartment that uses a telescope to peep into the neighbors' apartments - just because they may be able to get away with it for some period of time, and just because there may be other creepy guys that do it too, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do! |
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topgun98
join:2002-12-29
Birmingham, AL
| reply to RockyBB
Hi, folks. I am the proprietor of tnID.org.
First of all, thank you for your interest in the site.
Unfortunately, the Caller ID lookup mechanism is undergoing some changes and will probably not be back up and running with free Caller ID lookups for a few days. I apologize for the inconvenience.
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me at contact@tnID.org.
Cheers! |
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topgun98
join:2002-12-29
Birmingham, AL
| reply to Mr Privacy
Regarding the opt-out feature, there's one on every page!
Just click "Delete File", and your Caller ID data will be banned from the site forever. You may want to call your telephone company, though, as they're the ones who are ultimately releasing the data to any carrier who requests it. |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to Mr Privacy
said by Mr Privacy :
The point is that MOST independent VoIP providers (that is, those not affiliated with a cable company) do not give you a number that is listed in the directory or with directory assistance - and that's a GOOD thing, in my opinion - but they do send your name as part of Caller ID, and there's no mechanism to get them to change that.
I see that on most points, we'll have to agree to disagree, and I'm fine with that. On this one above, though, I need to point out a few things...
VoIP providers putting your name into the LIDB is not as common as you'd think. AFAIK, Vonage, VoicePulse, and a others still do not offer this option. Also, if a provider can put your name in, they can take it out. FWIW, CallVantage has allowed you to remove your name from the db for years (even though they're closing up shop). ViaTalk allows you "change" your outbound CID Name by submitting a trouble ticket. (One would think that they use discretion as to which requests they'll honor, but I'm sure "Private Number" would always be honored.)
I don't know which VoIP provider you use, but if they've put your name into the LIDB and you don't want it there, you need to ask them to remove it. |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to topgun98
said by topgun98 :Regarding the opt-out feature, there's one on every page! Just click "Delete File", and your Caller ID data will be banned from the site forever. You may want to call your telephone company, though, as they're the ones who are ultimately releasing the data to any carrier who requests it. Out of curiosity, if someone "deletes file" and then gives up that number, is there a mechanism to re-add it to the database at a later time? Is there anything to stop someone else from deleting "my" numbers? Please don't take this as a complaint, just food for thought.
Your site is welcome, IMO--it provides a great resource for those going through porting hell (and those contemplating it ). |
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usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs:
·VOIPo
 ·WOW Internet and C..
·Broadvox Direct
|  reply to topgun98
Once you do a dip in the LIDB, it continues to show that text.
Having tried a new feature on VOIPo, there is no way to see this change.
What if you drop a number and someone else has it later?
If they find your site, it will be old data?
Perhaps it just keeps from doing a new dip for a certain time period?
No chance you are collecting names and numbers for some reason?
--
Jim, VoIP since 12/2002, VOIPo 2/7/2007
FAH-Tool ... Whales ... VOIPo Forum ... VOIPo Review |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| Keep in mind that while the LIDB is a dynamic creature, it's not an instantaneous change. If you make a change with your provider, it could take weeks before the change is picked up. I'm not sure why the changes take so long; perhaps someone on the inside can share their wisdom... (The best I can describe is that there is no one universal LIDB, and, similar to DNS propagation, the LIDBs sync with one another in some fashion.) |
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usa2k
Please PRAY for Rebekah
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Canton, MI
clubs: | I understand that, but once the CNAM link is clicked, the link is removed and it is merely a test field. You can only click it once. |
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CommSoft8086
join:2004-03-12
North Falmouth, MA
| reply to topgun98
said by topgun98 :Regarding the opt-out feature, there's one on every page! Just click "Delete File", and your Caller ID data will be banned from the site forever. You may want to call your telephone company, though, as they're the ones who are ultimately releasing the data to any carrier who requests it. The "Delete File" appears to delete the number in its entirety -- not just the CNAM data. What's the value of deleting the entire record? I can understand someone's desire to block the CNAM data, but deleting the entire record, with no means of restoring it, seems a little excessive.
Also, it seems that you've changed/enhanced your CNAM database recently. It would be nice to delete the CNAM data and refresh it with you new source. I did a lookup a month or so ago, and you returned data from the "Public Sources" database -- which is/was less than correct. It would be nice to be able to refresh the query from the SS7 database on demand -- particularly as the data changes over time... |
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nick digger
@verizon.net
| reply to topgun98
said by topgun98 :Hi, folks. I am the proprietor of tnID.org. Hi. Thank you for your site.
I just have one small suggestion: when you click an exchange, you get a full list of 10,000 numbers to choose from. Perhaps you could have an intermediate search page that reduces the final list down to 100 or 1000 numbers, by breaking them down by
(aaa) npa-0xxx
(aaa) npa-1xxx, etc
or
(aaa) npa-00xx
(aaa) npa-01xx, etc
Just a thought. |
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