RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to friedman
Re: What carrier controls your phone number?
said by friedman  :The domain name TNID.ORG was only registered on 24-Apr-2009 (10 days ago.) I checked this in the WHOIS. This appears to be a brand new site. How did you find this service? I ran into it when the public face was »www.tirs.us This website doesn't answer all the questions for those of us in the industry, so we still need telcodata.us and localcallingguide.com. |
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Mr Privacy
@anonymouse.org
| reply to RockyBB
I can only think of a single "unlisted" phone number in my circle of friends, and there is no caller ID name available for that number. Have you found anything different? Well, that's a sample size of one. Since I don't specifically know of anyone who might be paying the phone company for an unlisted number I can't directly address that point. However, I can tell you that there is a VoIP company (one of the providers we discuss in this forum, usually in a favorable light) that by default does not provide listings for any of its customers - that is, if you call Directory Assistance for one of their customers you'll get nowhere (unless some specific special arrangements can be made). However, I put in numbers from some of their number blocks and it was returning customer names. Since no VoIP provider that I know of (other than perhaps the ones associated with cable companies, that actually try to pass themselves off as real telcos for regulatory purposes) actually charges extra for an unlisted number, you can assume that the expectation of at least some of their customers is that their name will not be linked to their number in any public database.
Then too, there is the matter of cell phone customers - again, my impression always was that they are always "unlisted" by default (if that's not the case for some particular company it's still applicable for others) and again there is the question of whether their name should be revealed. I can't tell if the site is doing that because everyone I know with a cell phone has Verizon Wireless and it was returning LOOKUP FAILED - TRY AGAIN LATER for those numbers today (maybe Verizon's already on to this outfit, and is blocking them?). |
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friedman
join:2009-04-30
| reply to RockyBB
said by RockyBB :I ran into it when the public face was » www.tirs.us This website doesn't answer all the questions for those of us in the industry, so we still need telcodata.us and localcallingguide.com. What more information can be obtained on telcodata.us and localcallingguide.com? What is the url on those sites, where this data can be looked up? And is it available at no cost? |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
 ·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to Mr Privacy
The question is where the "name" info comes from, and I don't think you quite understand. The name comes from the database used by the telcos to provide CallerID-with-name service (not the directory listings or customer account name records). I put in a few numbers I'm familiar with, and they came up exactly as expected. For example, my Verizon wireless mobile number showed city, state (as it does on landlines) with no indication of my name; other numbers showed up with my name as I've specified with the respective providers.
If you don't want your name to be out there, you CAN opt out by requesting that the telephone company not put your name into the database.
Note that some cell companies do populate the CID Name database--Sprint and Alltel come to mind. (Not sure how the Alltel practice will continue in light of the Verizon acquisition...) |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to Mr Privacy
said by Mr Privacy :
Well, that's a sample size of one.
Were you in my stats class? Yah, sample size of one doesn't prove anything. That's why I asked if you had anecdotal evidence to the contrary.
Relative to cell phones, all my immediate family has Sprint, and we made the conscious effort to get our names on outgoing caller ID. tnid.org has the caller ID for those phones. a not-immediate family member also has Sprint, and he has not asked for outgoing caller ID name and his name is not displayed.
so I would submit that this dude really is hooked to a hot LIDB database! which, if you think about it, really isn't "listing" ... it's reverse listing. In telephony, when we think of listing it's "tell me the number if I know the name." Usually this is what is supposed to be kept private to avoid collection calls, psycho ex-girlfriends, etc. Unlisted is to prevent revealing the phone number.
Reverse lookups of this type, I don't think have ever been addressed by any rulemaking. As with a lot of things relative to the new technologies, rule making will have to follow capabilities when they cannot be anticipated. |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to friedman
said by friedman :What more information can be obtained on telcodata.us and localcallingguide.com? What is the url on those sites, where this data can be looked up? And is it available at no cost? »www.telcodata.us provides rate center info, including all carriers serving a specific rate center. This can help identify CLECs to which a phone number could be ported to. »www.localcallingguide.com has info which can identify "free calling" areas (or non-long distance areas), which is helpful when a user is in a rate center with no VOIP CLECs but are within a free call area of another rate center which does have VOIP CLECs. |
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burgerwars
join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA
·voip.ms
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Fisamo
said by Fisamo :This site is very useful for the numerous porting discussions that go on in this forum. Thanks, Rocky! (Beats attempting the 'back door' method via Sprint/Nextel, even if they had not closed it.)  Yep. It works for that. But the caller ID part has been failing on me. All I get are [ LOOKUP FAILED - TRY AGAIN LATER ] messages. |
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friedman
join:2009-04-30
| reply to RockyBB
said by RockyBB :said by friedman :What more information can be obtained on telcodata.us and localcallingguide.com? What is the url on those sites, where this data can be looked up? And is it available at no cost? » www.telcodata.us provides rate center info, including all carriers serving a specific rate center. This can help identify CLECs to which a phone number could be ported to. » www.localcallingguide.com has info which can identify "free calling" areas (or non-long distance areas), which is helpful when a user is in a rate center with no VOIP CLECs but are within a free call area of another rate center which does have VOIP CLECs. Rockey, Do they charge for this data, or is it on their public website? BTW when you refer to a "free calling area" are you alluding to a LATA? You mentioned you are in the industry; are you a VOIP provider? |
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friedman
join:2009-04-30
| reply to burgerwars
said by burgerwars :said by Fisamo :This site is very useful for the numerous porting discussions that go on in this forum. Thanks, Rocky! (Beats attempting the 'back door' method via Sprint/Nextel, even if they had not closed it.) Yep. It works for that. But the caller ID part has been failing on me. All I get are [ LOOKUP FAILED - TRY AGAIN LATER ] messages. I was successful for 2 or 3 Caller ID lookups, after which I too got the "LOOKUP FAILED - TRY AGAIN LATER" message. |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to friedman
said by friedman :Do they charge for this data, or is it on their public website? BTW when you refer to a "free calling area" are you alluding to a LATA? You mentioned you are in the industry; are you a VOIP provider? The pages I cited are no charge. "Free calling area" is a subset of a LATA ... there can be toll or long distance charges for calls within a LATA that are outside a free call area ... thus the value of the info in www.localcallingguide.com! I am not a VOIP provider, but act as an independent agent. |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| said by RockyBB :said by friedman :Do they charge for this data, or is it on their public website? BTW when you refer to a "free calling area" are you alluding to a LATA? You mentioned you are in the industry; are you a VOIP provider? The pages I cited are no charge. "Free calling area" is a subset of a LATA ... there can be toll or long distance charges for calls within a LATA that are outside a free call area ... thus the value of the info in www.localcallingguide.com! I am not a VOIP provider, but act as an independent agent. but I play one on TV. Fixed it for ya.  |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to friedman
Perhaps heavy traffic with the sudden spike in activity? I had several lookups work quite well a few hours ago. I haven't tried again recently.
Rocky--do you know of any plan to offer an automated CNAM portal (likely it would be on a paid basis)? |
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PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
1 edit | reply to Mr Privacy
My experience with looking up many numbers on this site is that the names do not show up for cellphone customers, nor for "unlisted" customers.
-----------------------------------
One other quirk of the site relates to geolocation.
For example, (732) 518-xxxx is a South River, NJ exchange. Yet this website identifies it as Newark, NJ (which is NOT nearby), because the "switch" is in Newark. |
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PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| reply to friedman
said by friedman :What more information can be obtained on telcodata.us and localcallingguide.com? What is the url on those sites? ???
Those ARE the url's.
Plug those into any modern browser and off you go. |
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RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO
| reply to Fisamo
said by Fisamo :Rocky--do you know of any plan to offer an automated CNAM portal (likely it would be on a paid basis)? CNAM lookups cost money (fractions of a cent) for each one. methinks that the proprietor of this website is probably eating the cost, hoping that he'll convert some percentage of users to take advantage of the for-pay offer of detailed information. any qualified carrier can pay VeriSign or Verizon or any other DB-provider for access to the LIDB listings. I have no idea if there would any restriction relative to general public availability. For entertainment only, do not call: »www22.verizon.com/wholesale/solu···idb.html and »www.verisign.com/products-servic···es/lidb/ |
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Mr Privacy
@anonymouse.org
| reply to Fisamo
If you don't want your name to be out there, you CAN opt out by requesting that the telephone company not put your name into the database. I don't know if you're deliberately being provocative or just don't get it, but the point is that it's a very different thing to allow someone to get your name when YOU are calling THEM, as opposed to allowing any ne'er-do-well with a computer to type a number that they think might be yours and get confirmation of that fact, or for some other reason to get a name when they only have a number.
All I have to say is, this site had better make sure they are operating very solidly within the boundaries of the law AND of any agreements they may have with whomever they are getting this information from. All it's going to take is for some disgruntled associate/ex-spouse/significant other to use this service to confirm which of several possible numbers belongs to the person they want to locate/harass/kill and my bet would be that there is going to be a major lawsuit (I hope that never happens, but at least I'm not naive enough to think a service like this will never be used for nefarious purposes). This is data that was not intended to be supplied to all comers in this manner, and I certainly wouldn't want to be the person or persons behind this site when someone misuses it with tragic results.
I wonder how police officers and judges (not to mention a few other categories of prominent people) would react if they found out about this service? Again, you can't assume that because someone allows their name to be displayed when they place an outgoing call means they are okay with someone being able to plug in a number and get their name.
Again, just my opinion. |
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druber
join:2000-04-11
Marlborough, MA
·VOIPo
| I'm apparently missing something. What this site does that is new/unusual is telling you who the original and current carriers are, nothing more. The CID lookup uses (I'm assuming) capabilities provided by other sites for years now (like reversephonedirectory.com). |
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friedman
join:2009-04-30
1 edit | reply to PX Eliezer
said by PX Eliezer :said by friedman :What more information can be obtained on telcodata.us and localcallingguide.com? What is the url on those sites? ??? Those ARE the url's. Plug those into any modern browser and off you go. I meant a direct url to the aforementioned databases. |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
2 edits | reply to RockyBB
* Original Telephone Company Name: [ TCG SOUTH FLORIDA ]
* Original Telephone Company Type: Competitive Local Exchange Carrier (CLEC)
* Telephone Number Owner's Current provider: [ COMCAST ]
* Telephone Number Owner's Caller*ID Lookup: [ Display Caller*ID ]
Who the hell is TCG
After googling, it appears to be associated with BellSouth....Hmmm |
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meister_sd
Premium
join:2006-01-29
La Mesa, CA
| reply to RockyBB
Both my lookups said there was an error on CallerID too. But I wonder if the site isn't making a type of call and "looking" at the CallerID stream instead of actually having a database to check??
A couple years ago, I called FedEX on an issue and while talking with the operator, she said she could even see my extension I was calling from at work - and verified it! That was a little scary. |
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