xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA | [ Classes] 3.1 mage specs and gear (PvE & PvP)
What spec and/or gear do you use to maximize DPS with your mages? PvE? PvP? |
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andy7117
join:2009-04-01
Newmarket, ON
| For PVE arcane using a modified 57/3/11. I have the gear for FB for sure, but I don't like it at all. Put out around 4k+ dps on most 10man Ulduar fights. My toon is Knocker on Mal'Ganis. BTW I have two piece tier 8 but does anyone else think that the two set bonus is awesome, but the four piece is terrible? I just think a proc based on a proc doesn't work.
For PVP I use another arcane spec because slow and abarr are just to easy. I have 3 piece hateful and 1 deadly plus the deadly cloak and hateful bracers from honor.
I wouldn't recommend arcane for PVP unless you have higher level pvp gear. You can survive much easier as frost, but you should do more burst damage as arcane. |
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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON | reply to xcal78
Arcane to start in PVE, switch to fire/ttw as soon as you have the gear to support the higher hit cap. Fire is by and far the better spec for Ulduar.
Arcane is fine all the way through old 25man content in wrath. |
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Moos
join:2008-12-11
Salt Lake City, UT | reply to xcal78
What is making Fire so supurior in Ulduar? |
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andy7117
join:2009-04-01
Newmarket, ON
| reply to Mashiki
said by Mashiki  :Arcane to start in PVE, switch to fire/ttw as soon as you have the gear to support the higher hit cap. Fire is by and far the better spec for Ulduar. Arcane is fine all the way through old 25man content in wrath. I'm sure if you like it better it may be higher DPS, but I don't know about "far superior" I out DPS FB/TTW mages all the time. |
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Proteos
join:2009-03-24
Menomonee Falls, WI
| reply to xcal78
EJ forums rank FB/ttw as the highest dps spec...but just behind it is FFB and arcane is only slightly below that. So the 3 specs are all very close in dps, and if the raid has either a warlock with imp shadowbolt or another mage putting up scorch then it really doesn't matter which spec you take. |
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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
 ·Bright House
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to andy7117
said by andy7117 :I out DPS FB/TTW mages all the time. Stop playing with bad mages. |
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NYlock78
Premium
join:2009-04-01
Paterson, NJ | reply to xcal78
Im here trying to help out my friend who has a Mage and hes arcane right now and I want to know what does TTW mean and what would be the talent build |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
1 edit | said by NYlock78 :Im here trying to help out my friend who has a Mage and hes arcane right now and I want to know what does TTW mean and what would be the talent build TTW is an arcane talent: Torment the Weak.
"Your Frostbolt, Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Arcane Missiles, and Arcane Barrage abilities deal 12% more damage to Snared targets."
Normally a fb/ttw build is like 18/53/0 but again I'm trying to learn as much here as I can. I don't yet have the gear for a fb/ttw build but I'm getting close. |
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Elminster
join:2009-03-04
Avon, CT
| reply to xcal78
FB/TTW Info from EJ:
Optimal Sets (FB/TTW) & Item Discussion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Introduction
Sites like maxdps and lootrank are appreciated by many because they rank equipment in a seemingly consistent manner. When choosing between two items then, it is valuable to be able to determine which one is better than the other. The problem is that these sites label items as "best in slot" without taking into consideration all other factors. Weight values for stats are not consistent across specs and greatly differ for some stats, like hit rating, and the difference between crit and haste for FFB and FB, despite each spec valuing both stats.
Objective
There are many ways to look at best in slot. For the purpose of this thread, items will be looked at as if everything is on a progressive scale, a ladder of sorts. All of these items are filtered through Rawr, an invaluable tool that anyone can use. I just happen to be putting up my results here for reference, discussion, and possible analysis. This thread will provide a non-subjective look at items, but also take into account the availability, the difficulty of obtaining, said items. It is not meant to be a wish list of equipment, or a list of items in a set that 1% of players will ever complete.
What is Best in Slot?
A best in slot item is an item that, when all other factors have been taken into consideration, provides the highest return for its stats. This doesn't mean then that best in slot is the item with the most stats or the highest ilevel. Just as well, best in slot is occasionally confused with direct upgrades. A direct upgrade is an item that increases your DPS regardless of changes to anything else on your character. Sometimes this is useful information, because it allows a player to quickly guage one item over another, whether in the same slot or not.
However, the end result, and the progression to get there, is what I'm interested in showing. Because of this, best in slot is broken down into each notch on the ladder. A set containing best in slot items will be remarkably different for a person who runs only 10-man Ulduar from one who runs 25-man. It will be different for someone who has 'access' to items that are obtained through Hard-Mode encounters.
"Have you taken into consideration this...?
I probably have, maybe. There are a lot of things I know I don't include or address (sometimes intentionally, such as that one Stormjewel; Power Infusion; Mana Tide; 10 minute fights; AoE; 10-man raid buffs, etc.) If you think it's noteworthy to bring to my attention, bring it up with a reply. Note: I'd rather read a reply to this thread than a private message. I'm not the only one who can answer questions, and there are many players, smarter than I, who can answer things in a timely manner.
Agenda
I don't know. It's somewhere towards the end of this thread, buried between posts.
Rawr version: 2.2.0.9
Base Stats
Race: Undead (No Heroic Presence, Berserking, Expansive Mind, or The Human Spirit)
Intellect: 179/166.6667 = 1.074% crit
Spirit: 179
Crit Rate: 1.98% (0.906% + 1.074%)
Options - Spells & Buffs
Latency: 0.1
Automatic Armor: Disabled
Heroism/Bloodlust: Enabled
Power Infusion: Disabled
Potion of Wild Magic, Potion of Speed: Enabled
Flame Cap: Disabled
Maintain Snare: Disabled
Torment the Weak is dependent on:
Paladin - Judgements of the Just
Warrior - Thunder Clap
Druid - Infected Wounds
Death Knight - Frost Fever
Maintain Scorch: Disabled (assumes Improved Shadow Bolt)
Heroism Control: Optimal
Innervate, Mana Tide Totem: 0
Evocation, Mana Potion, Mana Gem: Enabled
Snared Time: 1
Focus Magic Rate: 0.373
1(1-0.6849)^(1/2.47) = 68% crit rate on a 2.47 cast, given to a FB/FFB mage.
Note: For any class whose rotation guarantees a critical every 10 seconds, such as an elemental shaman casting Lava Burst with Flame Shock up, the Focus Magic Rate is 1. Naturally though, this kind of defeats the purpose of giving that class Focus Magic in the first place, as they hardly benefit from it.
The Focus Magic buff (listed further down) represents FM from another mage. This is the static 3% crit buff. Your actual point investment into the Focus Magic talent is what gives you the additional 3%. The uptime of this is covered under Options > Spells & Buffs.
Warlock Spell Power: 2800
This is a personal setting, dependent on whether you have a Demonology Warlock with Demonic Pact. Totem of Wrath is assumed here.
Fight & Advanced
Duration: 300 seconds / 5 minutes
Hasted Evocation: Enabled
Note: Everything below this is personal settings.
Global Optimization: Disabled
Incremental Optimizations: Disabled
Reconstruct Sequence: Enabled
SMP Computation Limit: 5000
SMP Search Method: BestBound
Integral Mana Consumables: Display only
Segment Cooldowns: Display only
Advanced Constraints: 5 - Display only
Maximum Parallel Threads: 2
Debug Segmentation: Enabled
Segment Duration: 30
Variable Segment Duration: Enabled
Talents/Glyphs
Build: 19.52.0 - 2/3 Student of the Mind, 2/2 Flame Throwing, 0/1 Combustion
Student of the Mind vs. Combustion
Glyph of Living Bomb, Glyph of Molten Armor, Glyph of Fireball
Note: In some situations, Glyph of Scorch is preferable. See this breakdown on which glyph to replace if taking Glyph of Scorch.
Buffs
Damage: Sanctified Retribution, Curse of the Elements
Hit: Misery
Spell Power: Totem of Wrath, Flask of the Frost Wyrm, Salmon / Shoveltusk / Feast
Haste: Swift Retribution, Wrath of Air Totem
Critical Strike Buffs: Elemental Oath, Focus Magic, Molten Armor
Critical Strike Debuffs: Improved Shadow Bolt, Totem of Wrath
Intellect: Arcane Intellect
Spirit: Divine Spirit
Stats: Mark of the Wild (Improved Mark of the Wild), Blessing of Kings
Mana Replenishment: Judgements of the Wise
Mana Regeneration: Blessing of Wisdom (Improved Blessing of Wisdom)
Mana Restore: Judgement of Wisdom
Enchants
Head: [Arcanum of Burning Mysteries]
Shoulders: [Greater Inscription of the Storm ]
Cloak: Lightweave Embroidery
Chest: Powerful Stats
Wrists: Superior Spellpower
Hands: Exceptional Spellpower
Waist: [Eternal Belt Buckle]
Legs: [Brilliant Spellthread]
Feet: Icewalker
Weapon: Mighty Spellpower / Greater Spellpower
Professions
Tailoring: Lightweave Embroidery
Jewelcrafting: [Runed Dragon's Eye] (3)
Enchanting: Greater Spellpower (2)
Inscription: Master's Inscription of the Storm
Leatherworking: Fur Lining - Spell Power
A basic breakdown of why Tailoring and Jewelcrafting are used, see this post.
Ulduar - 25-man: Hard Mode - Includes all known items
Solution DPS: 7254.53
Stats
Intellect: 1343, Mana: 23133
In-Combat Regen: 756 Mp5
Spirit: 812 = (812*0.55)=446.6/45.9 = 9.73% crit
Crit Rating: 1056.6, Hit Rate: 365 (16.91%), Haste: 419, Spell Power: 2919
Relative Stat Values
Spell Power: 1.72
Haste Rating: 1.64
Crit Rating: 1.51
Spirit: 0.98
Glyphs
Glyph of Living Bomb: 351.18
Glyph of Molten Armor: 244.39 (812*0.2=162.4/45.9=3.54% crit)
Glyph of Fireball: 217.52
Note: There are a few new items posted on mmo-champion.com that I will update these lists with in the coming days. I'll also need to run all of these lists again using Rawr 2.2.1. I've already imported a few of these items into Rawr. I'll get to the rest later. Anything not listed here I either don't know about, don't care about, or already looked at, (and I guess I could have missed it too).
25-man Hard Mode
Conductive Seal
Treads of the False Oracle
Grasps of Reason
Crown of Luminescence
Vestments of the Blind Denizen
10-man Hard Mode
Fusion Blade
Leggings of Profound Darkness
Amice of Inconceivable Horror
Signet of Soft Lament
Pendant of the Shallow Grave
Because most of these items are not on wowhead, there are no socket bonuses listed (some bug), and when I import them, I just use my best judgement to assign an appropriate socket bonus. Blue sockets are typically 5, 7, and 9 Spell Power, depending on slot location, ilevel, and number of sockets required. Red sockets tend to be 4 intellect 4 or 4 spirit. Yellow sockets tend to be 6 critical or 6 haste.
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Hood]: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond], [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Pendant of Fiery Havoc]: [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Shoulderpads]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Drape of Mortal Downfall]: [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Tunic]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Unsullied Cuffs]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Gauntlets]: [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Sash of Ancient Power]: [Runed Dragon's Eye], [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Leggings of the Enslaved Idol]: [Runed Stormjewel], [Veiled Monarch Topaz], [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Boots of Fiery Resolution]: [Veiled Monarch Topaz], [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Signet of Manifested Pain], [Pyrelight Circle]
[Flare of the Heavens], [Scale of Fates] / [Eye of the Broodmother]
[Staff of Endless Winter]: [Runed Dragon's Eye], [Purified Twilight Opal]
[Scepter of Lost Souls]
Ulduar - 10-man, 25-man - Excludes all hard-mode items
Solution DPS: 6931.36
Stats
Intellect: 1270/166.6667 = 7.62% crit
In-Combat Regen: 566 Mp5
Spirit: (612*0.55)/45.9 = 7.33% crit
Hit Rating: 366/26.23 = 13.95+3 = 16.95% hit
Crit Rating: 911.6/45.9 = 19.86+7.62+(3*4)+(5*2)+0.906 = 50.386 - 0.024 (ghost) = 50.36%
Haste: 490/32.79 = 1.1494*1.03*1.05 = 1.243 Casting Speed
Spell Power: 2958
Relative Stat Values
Spell Power: 1.68
Crit Rating: 1.48
Haste Rating: 1.42
Spirit: 1.11
Glyphs
Glyph of Living Bomb: 324.08
Glyph of Fireball: 215.07
Glyph of Molten Armor: 180.86 (612*0.2=122.4/45.9=2.66% crit)
[Collar of the Wyrmhunter]: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond], [Purified Twilight Opal]
[Wyrmrest Necklace of Power]: [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Shoulderpads]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Pennant Cloak]: [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Tunic]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Bracers of Unleashed Magic]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Gauntlets]: [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Sash of Ancient Power]: [Purified Twilight Opal], [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Runed Stormjewel]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Leggings]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Sandals of Rash Temperament]
[Signet of Manifested Pain], [Pyrelight Circle]
[Scale of Fates], [Eye of the Broodmother]
[Runescribed Blade], [Ironmender]
[Scepter of Lost Souls]
Pre-Ulduar - Includes Crafted BoE Epics from Ulduar Patterns
Note: I will update this later with the inclusion of [Conqueror's Kirin Tor Gauntlets] and [Conqueror's Kirin Tor Leggings] from Emalon.
Solution DPS: 6765.46
Stats
Intellect: 1241, Mana: 21603
In-Combat Regen: 572 Mp5
Spirit: 657 = (657*0.55) = 361.35/45.9 = 7.87% crit
Crit Rating: 809.35, Hit Rate: 367 (16.99%), Haste: 514, Spell Power: 2771
Relative Stat Values
Spell Power: 1.65
Haste Rating: 1.50
Crit Rating: 1.48
Spirit: 0.96
Glyphs
Glyph of Living Bomb: 316.87
Glyph of Fireball: 216.95
Glyph of Molten Armor: 193.36 (657*0.2=131.4/45.9=2.86% crit)
[Valorous Frostfire Circlet]: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond], [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Wyrmrest Necklace of Power]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Valorous Frostfire Shoulderpads]: [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Pennant Cloak]: [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Valorous Frostfire Robe]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Unsullied Cuffs]: [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Valorous Frostfire Gloves]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Sash of Ancient Power]: [Runed Dragon's Eye], [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster]
[Spellslinger's Slippers]: [Runed Dragon's Eye], [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Signet of Manifested Pain], [Inscribed Signet of the Kirin Tor]
[Dying Curse], [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
[The Turning Tide], [Surplus Limb]
[Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians]
Pre-Ulduar - Excludes Crafted BoE Epics from Ulduar Patterns and Emalon T8 2P
Solution DPS: 6676.60
Stats:
Intellect: 1228, Mana:21408
In-Combat Regen: 571 Mp5
Spirit: 665 = (665*0.55) = 365.75/45.9 = 7.968% crit
Crit Rating: 813.75, Hit Rate: 361 (16.76%), Haste: 526, Spell Power: 2715
Relative Stat Values
Spell Power: 1.65
Haste Rating: 1.47
Crit Rating: 1.46
Spirit: 0.94
Glyphs
Glyph of Living Bomb: 312.53
Glyph of Fireball: 213.94
Glyph of Molten Armor: 193.16 (665*0.2=133/45.9=2.90% crit)
[Valorous Frostfire Circlet]: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond], [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Wyrmrest Necklace of Power]: [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Valorous Frostfire Shoulderpads]: [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Pennant Cloak]: [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Valorous Frostfire Robe]: [Veiled Monarch Topaz], [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Unsullied Cuffs]: [Veiled Monarch Topaz]
[Valorous Frostfire Gloves]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Leash of Heedless Magic]: [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster]
[Boots of Impetuous Ideals]
[Signet of Manifested Pain], [Inscribed Signet of the Kirin Tor]
[Dying Curse], [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
[The Turning Tide], [Surplus Limb]
[Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians]
Tier 8.5 Mage Set - Conqueror's Kirin Tor
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Gauntlets]
Drops from: Emalon the Storm Watcher (Heroic)
Purchased with: [Gauntlets of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Mimirion (Heroic)
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Leggings]
Drops from: Emalon the Storm Watcher (Heroic)
Purchased with: [Legplates of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Freya (Heroic)
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Hood]
Purchased with: [Crown of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Thorim (Heroic)
Purchased with: 58x [Emblem of Conquest]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Tunic]
Purchased with: [Breastplate of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Hodir (Heroic)
Purchased with: 58x [Emblem of Conquest]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Shoulderpads]
Purchased with: [Mantle of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Yogg-Saron (Heroic)
Tier 8 Mage Set - Valorous Kirin Tor
[Valorous Kirin Tor Hood]
Purchased with: [Helm of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Mimirion
[Valorous Kirin Tor Gauntlets]
Drops from: Emalon the Storm Watcher
Purchased with: [Gloves of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Freya
[Valorous Kirin Tor Shoulderpads]
Purchased with: [Spaulders of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Thorim
[Valorous Kirin Tor Leggings]
Drops from: Emalon the Storm Watcher
Purchased with: [Leggings of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Hodir
[Valorous Kirin Tor Tunic]
Purchased with: [Chestguard of the Wayward Vanquisher]
Drops from: Yogg-Saron |
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NYlock78
Premium
join:2009-04-01
Paterson, NJ
| reply to xcal78
said by xcal78 :said by NYlock78 :Im here trying to help out my friend who has a Mage and hes arcane right now and I want to know what does TTW mean and what would be the talent build TTW is an arcane talent: Torment the Weak. "Your Frostbolt, Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, Arcane Missiles, and Arcane Barrage abilities deal 12% more damage to Snared targets." Normally a fb/ttw build is like 18/53/0 but again I'm trying to learn as much here as I can. I don't yet have the gear for a fb/ttw build but I'm getting close. He is full T7.5 and I know he has the 8.5 gloves. im asking cause he was Loooooow on the new boss in Vault like 16th place and my lock with a mixed assortment of gear was out DPSing him |
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NYlock78
Premium
join:2009-04-01
Paterson, NJ | reply to xcal78
he wants to know how does TTW help out in PVE cause as far as he knows bosses dont get snared |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
1 edit | said by NYlock78 :he wants to know how does TTW help out in PVE cause as far as he knows bosses dont get snared All bosses should be getting snared from some ability. Generally the tanks abilities provide this. I'm not well versed on which abilities/spells are 'snares' but there's dozens of them. Anyone else have alist of abilities/spells that count as 'snares' for TTW?
I think you need like 340-400 hit rating including full raid buffs to hit. I've read you want 2k dps unbuffed and like 35-40% crits unbuffed also. If you can hit those marks then you should be pretty good on fb/ttw. Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere someone. Mashiki and Fireballin are the 2 resident expects that I know of on the forums here. |
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NYlock78
Premium
join:2009-04-01
Paterson, NJ | Thanks for the quick response. Can you link me the talenty tree build from from getbuffed.com |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
1 edit | said by NYlock78 :Thanks for the quick response. Can you link me the talenty tree build from from getbuffed.com I can't hit that site but I re-created the Rawr FB/TTW 18/53/0 spec for you at:
»chardev.org/?t=maf,1537,13,9z3c8ili5jci3v
Recommended glyphs:
Living Bomb, Fireball, Molten armor or Imp. Scorch
If you don't have a lock with imp. shadowbolt or another scorch mage then you want imp. scorch otherwise go with molten armor. |
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NYlock78
Premium
join:2009-04-01
Paterson, NJ | I cant click 0n it from here but ill cech from home thanks |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
2 edits | 
FB/TTW - Arcane | | 
FB/TTW - Fire | |
said by NYlock78 :I cant click 0n it from here but ill cech from home thanks I'll do you one better. 
Mashiki: Is this the FB/TTW spec you use? |
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NYlock78
Premium
join:2009-04-01
Paterson, NJ | reply to xcal78
now the glyphs lol |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
2 edits | reply to xcal78
Current Specs | 
FB/TTW with BiS's | |
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xcal78
join:2009-02-27
Waltham, MA
·RCN CABLE
| reply to xcal78
FB/TTW Spec |
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