Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 in World of Warcraft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22256612 en Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:17:20 EDT Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:17:20 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22800319 anon : Ah ok, I didn't know that. Thanks mate, I think I'll go for the Mirror then :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22800319 Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:31:52 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22799418 anon :
said by Alfur :

Hi guys,
What I wanted to ask is; Would it be worth for me to get Mirror of Truth? I'm checking RAWR out, and according to that programs calculations, it wouldn't be worth having for me, telling me that my current trinket, Incisor Fragment (from King Dred in DTK), gives me better DPS! I thought it sounded ludicrous but I would like you guys' opinion :)

Another trinket that's better according to RAWR, is Battlemaster's Conviction, with steady 190 AP, and not just better, but way better.
Last I checked, the rogue model in RAWR was still in the early stages of development and was not considered in any way accurate. If you've talked with other players, especially higher level rogues and they disagree with RAWR, trust them, not it. That goes with pretty much every tool/mod/spreadsheet. Theorycraft is a nice place to start but it all goes out the window under real world conditions.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22799418 Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:54:43 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22798431 Gundy : I thought I would post here instead of on wow boards as I'm fed up with this games community. Right now I just got a rogue to 80 and am trying to gear up. I got tired of the your gear sucks or your dps is to low. So I grinded the bg and got all hateful welfare epics. It helped some but I am still having dps issues. I've got the spinal destroyer and fleshraper both with mongoose. My armory is shrappnel on malganis. Am I on the right track? My ap just won't go up.

Its so hard to get geared with people being dicks. I did manage a 25 nax run with my guild and attained 4.2dps on patch, which for me was decent.
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| Im not really a ego maniac im just really good at what I do... |]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22798431 Sat, 01 Aug 2009 09:16:07 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22797696 anon : Hi guys,

I learned a lot from reading this thread. I'm a growing lvl 80 rogue, and I think I've reached the lvl of Naxx 10 raiding, though I haven't started that yet. I'm specced for fist/fist using Greed and Kinetic Ripper...

What I wanted to ask is; Would it be worth for me to get Mirror of Truth? I'm checking RAWR out, and according to that programs calculations, it wouldn't be worth having for me, telling me that my current trinket, Incisor Fragment (from King Dred in DTK), gives me better DPS! I thought it sounded ludicrous but I would like you guys' opinion :)

Another trinket that's better according to RAWR, is Battlemaster's Conviction, with steady 190 AP, and not just better, but way better.

I asked just a few players and they all disagreed with RAWR but I would like as many opinions as I can get. I hate wasting emblems :)

-Alfur, Terokkar Realm (EU)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22797696 Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:28:57 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22778147 crytz : Yeah man great job on this thread, its been sweet theorizing what works and what doesnt.

I've finally gotten good daggers due to the lack of rogues in my guild so now I'm mutilate but not exp capped, but still doing top dps or close to it in the guild woot!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22778147 Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:06:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22777170 Critsmcgee : Thanks alot for supporting this topic through 3.1. With 3.2 around the corner will come another guide and more and more rogue questions. For the most part though i can saw 3.1 was one of the best patches for combat rogues at least. Every guild now has a reason to bring 2-3 rogues and its restored order to our class and balance to the DPS. Look for Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.2 over the next couple weeks as 3.2 prepares to launch.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22777170 Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:13:23 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22736751 Critsmcgee : I use mutilate for this fight as well. I wont say its better than combat but i will say a few things. If your raid does not do that hardmode then i suggest waiting till you get the spark buff to Killing Spree. When the adds get frozen use blade flurry to break them out faster.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22736751 Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:14:17 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22736710 djlar : By examining the DPS charts I see muti rogues get lots of damage with mutilate and poison, while my combat rogue Sinister strike is about 33% less than mutilate, poison is about 50% less dmg.. even with 3 pts on Vile Poisons I can't get close.. I just acquired T8 2 piece bonus, still yet to test it on real raid dmg..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22736710 Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:06:26 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22724926 anon : D - 4 piece T8 will grant you a significant gain in DPS, especially if specced into serrated blades. Not sure if it would completely close the gap on the muti rogue though.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22724926 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:27:45 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22724346 djlar : I'm still figuring out how to di 8.5K dps on Hodir 25... I can't seem to get passed 7.3K, perhaps it's my T7.5 gear, the Full T8 muti rogue is doing those 8500 every fight, we stand in the same spotlight most of the time, would I have to go muti?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22724346 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:02:01 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717279 crytz : hmm, Yeah I havnt done it in 25m yet I can see that now, sucks you'd have to sacrifice so much dps though. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717279 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:08:01 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717262 Sithra : He only does it back to back if you use a shaman as their crappy earth shock only has a 2 second spell lock on it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717262 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:03:40 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717151 Critsmcgee : yea in 10 man its cake to interrupt alone because vezax will not cast for at least 10 seconds. in 25 you need at least 2 people on it becuase ive seen em do it back to back. One rogue specced into throwing can interrupt it alone though. its the only class i believe that can do that.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717151 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:46:34 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717080 crytz : This is true, but with only 10 sec CD you still have enough time between each interrupt, so there's no need to dumb down your personal dps that much when you can still kick each time.

I know I've handled it on my own in 10 man, you just have to time your rotation a little better. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717080 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:34:55 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717016 Critsmcgee :
said by crytz See Profile :

Why would you want to use FOK on Vez? The cost of energy compared to kick is insane and you'd lose out on dps.
Because it doesnt have a 10 second CD like kick and you can solo interrupt it so that the other rogues in the raid can go all out on dps. It almost drops your dps a whole 1k but at the same time instea of the two other interrupters doing only 5k they can go all out and push 7k.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22717016 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:25:45 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716797 crytz : I'm 18/51/2 with swords, I still need an OH sword but I'm sporting my mace i got a while ago. I just got my chest last night and I'm finally 4/5 t8.5 with the Monolith shoulders.

I'd love go to mutilate pve, but I only have the shadowbite daggers for it though. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716797 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:45:21 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716727 crytz : Why would you want to use FOK on Vez? The cost of energy compared to kick is insane and you'd lose out on dps. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716727 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:27:24 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716262 anon : I use assasination mainly but have combat as offspec. Don't know my talents right now but they're not the "official" builds for those specs, I simply don't like them. Why is vigor always out of them? 20 extra energy points wasted? When I look at those builds I always tend to think they were made by a bunch of retarded rogues, or other classes players. Improved backstab? yeah, it's a powerful move but... you must be at the back of your target, almost impossible but for certain bosses, it requires more energy than Mutilate or SS and it deals much less damage than Muti, use that points in something useful, like improving dual wield. Nerves of Steel (i thimk that's the name): for God's shake, do not put this in the 15/51/5 combat spec in PVE!!!! how many mobs out there can stun you for more than 2 o 3 secs?

I know my talent builds may be a kind of strange but I like them and they work very fine, I still don't have the copyright so feel free to copy them :D :D

Daryth
Exodar (Europe)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22716262 Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:07:57 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22714279 Critsmcgee : The next order of business i was going to ask about was spec. Right now ive been farely successful running 18/51/2 with three points in Vile Poisons as swords spec. Some say 15/51/5 is still top DPS. For the most part i just want to see what other rogues out there are using because my current spec is getting it done just fine.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22714279 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:20:59 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22714147 Critsmcgee : Thorim hardmode (25)
Thorim is an easy fight. The hardmode can also be easy with the right positioning and the right composition of single target and AoE DPS. For this fight i roll combat but mutilate is arguably better here because of the AoE dps from FoK.

Abilitys to watch out for.
Whirlwind - The Champions are the larger mobs that come in the arena. If you do not set a dismantle chain with your other rogues they will whirlwind and it can hit you twice for over 10k and kill you. Make sure that you disarm them and dps then down asap.

Chain lighting - This is the primary raid wipe mechanism of melee dps here. If you have more than 3 people in /distance then you are gonna have a higher chance of getting hit by the next chain lighting. Sometimes you could be in good position and another asshole will come over and kill you with chain lighting.

Sifs frost AoE - Cloak this, move back into the right position, nuff said.

Phase 1 - The arena
For the most part rogues will always be in the arena. Set your Tricks of the trade to target the arena tank and wait until there are ALOT of mobs on the screen to use it. On the opening pull the way ive been almost hitting 20k DPS is to run in unstealthed and tricks of the trade on the arena tank. When you get in close you want to immediatly pop blade flurry + killing spree and then pop AR and single target one of the mobs and auto attack while spamming FoK. Make sure and position yourself so that you are in the center of the mobs. For me as swords spec i glyphed fan of knives, dropping the rupture glyph, and dropped one point in weapon expertise for 1 point in throwing spec. You will easially get 40-50 interrupts on the healing mobs like this. Make sure and dismantle the champions when they come so that they cannot whirlwind and also make sure to use evasion when your tricks is on cooldown and you have ALOT of mobs on screen that you think you might aggro. If you do in fact pull aggro vanish fast because the champion will one shot you. Just stay close to the center area and keep spamming FoK, you should be at around 7.5-9k dps after this phase is through.

Phase 2
Make sure and slow down the AoE DPS when thorim enters the arena. MD to the main tank also before you accidentally get aggro. The raid should be split into seperate groups so that you are only near 3-4 people at any givin time. When you see the lighting worms you have to move out of your area to another group. Make sure and move back very fast though because of the chainlighting. The chainlighting will sometimes kill the second person it hits, and will always kill the third person that is too close. It is kind of random and sometimes a healer too close will nuke you. Positioning is everything here. NEVER and i mean NEVER go too close to the tank. This will get you booted from the group most likely if you are too close and kill a tank. Type /distance and use that as a guide to see if you are too close to anyone but your designated group. Every once in awhile sif will teleport and freeze everyone. Use either cloak of shadows or vanish to get out of that and proceed to keep your positioning. Stay mobile and keep your head on a swivle and there is no reason you wont come out on top here as a rogue and pick up Embrace of the Gladiator in no time.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22714147 Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:58:52 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22668998 djlar : It interrupts anyting interruptable, although it has a little delay, maybe 1/2 a second, gotta be able to react on time, works great on Auriaya, if you time it right you can interrupt her while feared if you weren't fear warded]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22668998 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:59:04 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22667933 Critsmcgee : Recently ive acquired the expertise from the hard mode BiS yogg belt to drop both points in weapon expertise and grab those 2 points in throwing specilization. I have yet to test it out this week but i wanna see how it works in ulduar with a almost 100% interrupt on trash and being able to essentially solo interrupt 25 man Vezax. Has anyone confirmed if FoK works on Vezax btw?
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22667933 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:08:38 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22666564 djlar : On General Vezax we 4 rogues pair so one pair kicks one time the other pair the next interrupt, so interrupts are at 100%, so if one rogue or perhaps the tank missed the interrupt the other could still provide interrupt, same on assembly of iron, even Auriaya if enough fear wards are present..

Think of it, interrupts are very important in Ulduar, hence high demand for rogues and other interrupt friendly class.

Let me see:

- Interrupt trash at Razorscale
- Interrupt Assembly of iron
- Interrupt Auriaya
- Interrupt Thorim trash
- Interrupt Vezax (and trash to get to him)

Also the prefered class to go into Yogg's portals]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22666564 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:03:04 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22666314 crytz : Nice and grats, yeah I havnt used it yet fully. I did gen vaz the other night but cant go all out due to the kicks you have to do. Tonight should be fun, also I made the plunge to get the darkmoon trinket so that should be beast too! I'm so happy I finally got rid of my mirror trinket lol. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22666314 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 10:29:23 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22666279 Critsmcgee : 4p is so OP. Ive had it for few weeks and it has really pushed my DPS over the top. We just did 1 light 10 man yogg last night and it was actually my first time downing yogg. I picked up the soul devouring cinch and i just need more hit rating to push my gear over the top. WTB Blood of the old god.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22666279 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 10:24:14 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22665475 anon : I don´t use Deadly Poison in MH, the DP is in the OH weapon, of course. In fact, I only use Envenom as finishing move when figthing as Mutilate, having the SnD always up makes the poison application so good i can Envenom my victim a couple of times before Rupture fades away.
Well, I´m not being totally sincere, in some figths I've used Deadly Poison in both hands. Some bosses are immune to the Instant Posion but no to the DP, so I use DP in both weapons doubling the DP application frequency. I've used this technique some times and it's very useful against some bosses.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22665475 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:53:03 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662763 RazznCain : HAT was gimped pretty bad with 3.1 with the removal of Pet Crit Procs and things like Explosive Shot Crits being removed from the table. Hunters use to be the best group partners for HAT, but now it seems like Rogues, some mage builds and Elemental/Enhance Shamans are the way to go now. HAT is still competitive with a really stacked group and some luck with RNG. There's a really good chance that you won't get a proper group in a 10man.

You should NOT be using Deadly Poison on your Mainhand. Especially with IP/WP poison normalization. A slow mainhand with Wound Poison has a very high proc rate, and should proc with most Evis/main hand attacks. Deadly Poison in your Offhand, you should see very high uptime. As far as Energy regen, with the proper group, you should rarely go below half energy since you are blowing 5pt finishers and constantly getting 25energy returned. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22662763 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:31:09 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22660488 anon : I tried HaT a few days ago in Naxx10. I didn't like it, yes, you are always at five combo points, but your DPs is ridiculously low, spamming eviscerates makes your poison application rate very poor (don´t know why but Deadly Poison barely appeared in the bad guy's debuff bar), the energy regen is too slow to allow a good rotation of Expose Armor, Rupture, SnD and Evis so it feels like hitting sooo slow. Maybe it's me but I didn't like that spec, I'm back to Muti/Combat. I like the brutal DPS burst with BF and AR and the huge crits with Envenom (love this attack; oh,so you have 30k armor?, well, if plate is going to protect you from being poisoned...)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22660488 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:01:47 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659961 crytz :
said by Quickdamage See Profile :

I love my DK but Rogues should be on top of the DPS charts, they don't bring any raid buffs or utility
Glad to see someone finally agrees that isnt a rogue! But like Djlar said, we do bring tricks and interrupts along with aoe dmg thats always nice too!

Oh and HAT's to finicky, I've never tried it to extensively but it seems like the combo point generation is so random it can really screw up your rotation even though its not a very extensive one. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22659961 Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:03:06 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22649798 djlar : DK used to bring their auras, use to be the blood one for some extra little healing, and frost DKs their haste buff on combat, but now you'll see them rarely.

Rogues also bring little, Tricks of the Trade, interrupts, now with no CC needed that's pretty much it, so maybe blizz made rogues OP so they focus on DPSing while other classes bring more buffs and utility.

I also haven't seen a HaT rogue since they removed the OP buff]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22649798 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:23:12 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645433 Quickdamage : I love my DK but Rogues should be on top of the DPS charts, they don't bring any raid buffs or utility]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645433 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:20:23 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645024 crytz : Glad to see we're still on top, but that sucks you can only get 2 emblems a day!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22645024 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:04:25 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644118 djlar : On the PTR we are still kings, with the DK nerfs now they don't even do the top 5, locks are getting closer, but mostly on trash, on single target we are kings...

I was able to test T9 for a day or two until they deleted it. now I have to grind emblems of conquest to try full T8.5, new raids aren't up so it's only 2 Emblems of Triumph per day, that's almost nothing considering you need 20+ to buy anything T9 level..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22644118 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:12:41 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643598 crytz : Wow no rogues in your raid? Thats odd! I finally got my 4 piece bonus the other night so I cant wait to use it!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22643598 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:52:16 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22639669 JesusBeamz :
said by crytz See Profile :

Nice grats man! Yeah I got a dagger off of Gen Vaz the other night in 10m, I wont be using it as pve but for pvp its pretty sweet =)
Yeah we de'd that last clear. Like most leather gear, we kind of don't have a rogue or a feral druid, ell ohh ell.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22639669 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:09:30 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22639644 RazznCain : Weapon speed/damage doesn't make a difference with Evis. Evis does a set amount of damage based on stats/combo points.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22639644 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:03:27 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22626877 anon : Dagger in OH is well suited for combat spec? I mean, if I use eviscerate the dagger will deal much less damage than a fist or mace and the speed can be lowered with haste, so basically you can have a weapon with much more DPS in OH and almost the same speed as a dagger. That´s how I´m doing right now and it works fine]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22626877 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:27:51 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608295 djlar : Yeah, for combat is slow fist MH (Anub's or Calamity's), off-hand is the faster most dps you could find, could be a sword, a dagger, mace or fist. and in 3.2 axes!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22608295 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:00:00 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607511 anon : I have the tournament dagger in my muti spec and it works very fine, but I´m aware that I need something much better to enter Ulduar, my other dagger is the Namlak´s sticker. But if you´re going to just try mutilate it´s a very good dagger, and it`s free! Only five days doing quests and earning money and then, voila, a brand new dagger! Actually I´m running combat with two maces, it rocks! #1 DPS in my raid last night in OS25, 3k average (yeah, a bit low but I don´t have decent maces either) :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22607511 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:37:59 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601401 crytz : Nice grats man! Yeah I got a dagger off of Gen Vaz the other night in 10m, I wont be using it as pve but for pvp its pretty sweet =) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22601401 Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:19:34 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597490 djlar : I just got the Razorscale fast sword, Remorse, Now I just need the gold to enchant it, I'm only lacking 4 abyss crystals for berserker, its a good upgrade for off-hand "murder"

My Deeps should improve a bit..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22597490 Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:25:25 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571408 djlar : Get that dagga'! the tournament one... only 5 champion seals for 5 days.. I'm 20 to go.. LOL

At least is a sure thing or hoping KT 25 drops the one or razorscale the fast off hand sword, etc.

I'm close quarters spec so with my Calamity's I get the 5% crit bonus anyway..

I recently went dual spec, but like I say I need a good second dagger, I bought, in the meantime, the rep one ad Hodir's..

I do dailies in mutilate spec to get my rotations in synch, so I'm not second guessing in raids.. LOL]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22571408 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:34:35 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22570763 crytz : I feel your pain man, I've had the worst luck with dagger drops ever since doing 5 mans for upgrades from blues! Either A. they dont drop, or B. some other rogue in the raid needs it of course and he wins the roll.

Its funny I see so many mutil rogues out there but I cant even get a good OH dagger lol, the other night we did Xt on 25m he dropped the dagger and the other combat rogue that was sword spec mind you, got it so yeah GG.

Its ok I cant complain I'm doing very well as combat with fists, I'd just love to have a change of pace spec like mutilate, specially for pvp. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22570763 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:48:35 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22567961 djlar : That Razorscale off-hand fast sword will work wonders for my combat spec, the 3 rogues ahead of me already have it, and guess what all of them went muti, so that sword is sitting in their bags/bank...

For offhand the best I could do is "murder" and I don't have a second dagger to go mutilate, there's a cool one on the Tournament vendor that does 143.5 DPS that I could use for that spec, it only costs 25 seals of champion, sadly I just spent 150 on the flying mount, so another 5 days of grinding those quests to get it..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22567961 Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:08:17 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22559091 anon : I am running Ulduar 10 man in addition to the Naxx25 runs. I believe Thorim coughs up the rogue leather hat of choice in 10 man runs but my guild are yet too even see him. We do move far too slowly for my tastes - they would rather piddle through it uber-carefully and only have FL, XT and Kol dead after 3 hours of raiding. Coupled with only being in Ulduar 2 nights a week does not make for lightning progress or inspire me that we are going to see many watchers dead at any point soon (We have downed Freya once so far, thats it for the watchers).

The annoying thing is i've never even seen a leather helm drop in countless Naxx runs (not convinved I'd take one without a meta gem socket anyway) which I think leaves me with a choice of 3 (one off Sapph, Gothik and the tier piece IIRC) which I will be rolling against our feral druid tank and the other rogue for anyway :/

This is why I think all tier slots should be opened by for emblems, at least at T7.10 and T7.5 levels. I have done my theorycrafting and there really isn't a better headpiece outside of raid drops than the hateful gladiators which sucks on many many levels, so I am stuck waiting for the RNG to cough me something up whilst sitting on 100+ emblems and rising. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22559091 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:21:13 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22558411 crytz : Damn bro, do some ulduar get your helm. If you have enough ilvl 213 gear theres no reason why you cant be in uld.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22558411 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:30:24 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22553865 anon : I know, I know :)

I'm just being a bit lazy, the yellow hit gem is socketed in my T7.1 gloves (the first epic drop I saw) and is a remnant from when I actually needed the hit rating that has just never been replaced.

I guess I have been putting off regemming expecting a better pair of gloves to drop (T7.5 or anything else 213 really) which I could then socket appropriately. Bad form, I know ;)

I guess its another reason to continue to run Naxx25, although I must say continuing to run a dungeon two nights a week when you need a maximum of 2 potential upgrades is a little annoying :)

Roll on the day when all the T7.5 tier pieces are available for badges. Sitting on 100+ emblems of valor, nothing to spend them on and still sporting T7.10 gloves and the hateful gladiators helm. Grrrr. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22553865 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:34:26 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22552493 Sithra : I'm mut and raid with 2 combat rogues and there is no difference.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22552493 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:37:43 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22542922 Tehuno :
said by djlar See Profile :

So I've seen some muti rogues putting out way more DPS than my combat spec, how are they doing that? they seem to be stacking haste, as many pieces that drop in Ulduar have haste instead of hit.

But I don't have a second good dagger to re-spec muti and my Calamity's Grasp would be useless..
all our rogues are staying mut until they get masticator and a good combat OH. they seem to be convinced its not worth the switch to combat without them. food for thought. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22542922 Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:56:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22542450 shinjuru : Seriously, if you're not sure what gem to use, check out »www.wow-gem.com/
It will save you a ton of time figuring it out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22542450 Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:20:39 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22541785 dynodb :
said by SimonB :

Would love to take my yellow hit gem out my gloves but that would screw up my meta gem.
Huh? You definitely shouldn't be gemming for hit with 360 hit rating.

You know that the orange gems count towards the yellow gem requirement for the meta, right? Toss the hit gem and go with either the AP/crit or Agi/crit orange ones.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22541785 Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:25:50 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22539697 djlar : So I've seen some muti rogues putting out way more DPS than my combat spec, how are they doing that? they seem to be stacking haste, as many pieces that drop in Ulduar have haste instead of hit.

But I don't have a second good dagger to re-spec muti and my Calamity's Grasp would be useless..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22539697 Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:48:21 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533996 anon : Its not really a case of being noble - we have a very stable and close 10 man raid group and it is also been our looting policy to express who is interested in an item and then work out who it is the biggest upgrade for / who it benefits the most. Sure I can probably increase my personal dps by upgrading from lv213 to lv226 but it will benefit the raid more for our shammy to go from lv200 to lv226. I know that i'll get my shot at it next time, and I know my team mates would do the same for me.

Generally speaking, any leather gear will go to me or our feral druid bear. As he has no interest in kitty dps it is usually just a case of deciding whether or not a piece is a better fit for tanking or dps. I have less interest in gear that has an obscence amount of the item budget spent on dodge/stamina for example, so he will get those, whereas anything sporting large amounts of crit rating and attack power will generally come my way. Anything in between or balanced will generally be rolled upon unless it is a much bigger upgrade for one or the other.

As for weapons, well, swords and daggers and generally mine if I want them, as are fast offhanders. Its only really slow maces & fists that need to be decided on, and at worst I'm going to be second on list to get them.

Thankfully there's only so much stat juggling I need to do in terms of hit. I have Grim Toll so realistically hitting the 315 hit rating is never going to be too much of an issue (certainly nothing a bit of regemming couldn't fix, and theres always the +95 hit WG trinket to bring in in emergencies).

Actually at the moment I'm a bit over the top on hit (360 or so I believe) and a bit expertise starved but I have my eye on the Proto-hide leggings in the AH that should take care of that. Would love to take my yellow hit gem out my gloves but that would screw up my meta gem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533996 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:15:46 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533731 Critsmcgee : Ive heared that stats aside Rune Etched nightblade is better than Remorse for sustained DPS just because of the 1.40 speed over the 1.50 speed. The OH weapon speed is directly related MH attacks for sword spec. I know it looks noble to pass on gear but for different reasons alone i would take what you can get at this point. I sometimes roll on things for side-grades. There are upgrades that you will get that might drastically drop your hit rating and then a peice with high hit will become really important. I must have passed on Grim Toll about 5 times and now its one of the few items that i run naxx 25 for.
--
Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533731 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:30:16 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533620 anon : Aye, as I suspected.

The Rune Etched Nightblade drops off the Iron Council and is basically the sword quivalent of the bloodcrush cudgel (163 dps, 1.5 speed), so I will be shooting for that as top priority.

I seem to be accumulating a vast array of lv219 offhands (I have the Bloodcrush Cudgel Mace and the fast fist weapon that drops off FL 10 man) as they are no use to anyone in the raid but me (I am the only rogue in our 10 man group and no hunters).

However, pairing them up with a same-type slow one hander will prove more problematic. I raid with a very good melee shammy and would be loathe to roll for a slow fist/mace against her because she is still using a lv200 main hand. I passed on calamity's grasp from 25 man KT last week so that she could get it, unfortunately she was outrolled by another rogue who barely raids with us anymore. grrrrr).

Still, once she is kitted they should start falling my way eventually.

I quite fancy seeing what dps a combat mace spec stacking as much armour penetration as possible (maybe even dipping into subtelty for serrated blades) can put out. Probably not quite upto traditional builds and gear setups but we shall see. (I am putting out ~5.3k dps on patchwerk 25 as combat swords as reference with an average gear level of 209).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533620 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:11:44 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533394 Critsmcgee : Although its not that big of a difference i have noticed a DPS increase by speccing 18/51/2 over 15/51/5. I would stick with the OH sword. It is still a bigger DPS upgrade. Every time your OH sword procs you get an additional MH attack. Not to mention that your MH attacks can get a double proc. I know its painful to have a 163weapon banked but i would just hack it out and aim for either a good MH mace or a 1.5 OH sword.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22533394 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:37:23 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22532518 anon : Quick question regarding sword spec and gearing:

I am currently sporting Razorscale's talon MH and Widow's Fury OH (1.6 speed, 156 dps) (Both swords). I standard combat 15/51/5 with sword spec.

I had the bloodcrush cudgel drop in Uldar 10 man last night (1.5 speed 163 dps, MACE)

Now, my question is whether or not the fact that the mace is faster (combat potency procs) and does more dps would outway the fact that it would not benefit from the 5/5 sword specialisation talent I am sporting.

I would do some target dummy testing but as I'm sporting mongoose on my current offhand sword i cant get a fair test without enchanting the new mace which could end up being a waste.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22532518 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:48:10 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22520100 crytz : I'd love to see mace spec, I have the OH mace from 25 man naxx and am hoping to see the MH from thorim sometime soon. I cant imagine it being a bad spec now that they buffed arm pen. In pvp it must be fun as hell too, specially against clothies, oh those poor clothies. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22520100 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:01:38 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22517451 Critsmcgee :
said by Tehuno See Profile :

if rogue sword spec has a 6 sec ICD like the warrior version, its a garbage talent.
It doesnt. These swords have been preforming just fine. Until i get the 4-set bonus i am gonna stick with swords. It seems that the damage is spiky though which is only a problem in instances. Sometimes a Eviscerate will crit-double proc with the poisons and ALOT of damage will go off at one time causing me to pull threat. I guess i under estimated swords before. I was sure that fist were superior before but now im seeing how they are very close. I have yet to see mace DPS but i believe it is the same.
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Coffee, Tea, SEGA!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22517451 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:49:44 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22406659 Critsmcgee : Melee DPS mimiron Guide 25

Mimiron is essentially the most complicated boss in the raid besides maybe Yogg Saron himself and Freya +3. This boss reminds me of Zuljin alot from ZA. He is a four phase fight with alot of differences in between phases and a short down time. Aggro is not really an issue in this fight.

Phase 1
Mimiron will start in the very cent of the platform and he will default to this position at the end of each phase. This first phase is fairly simple. He is tanked in the center of the room and as for all melee dps you want to stay behind him. The main thing to worry about during this fight is the proximity mines. A few seconds after you start the fight he will throw mines on the ground in a circle around himself. Immediatly after he throws down the mines you need to start rotating your camera out and looking for a gap. About 10-15 seconds after he scatters minds he will cast an AoE. Aim your camera in the mine gap and simply click both mouse buttons to get prevent from having to turn away. Make sure and avoid the mines when running back to the boss also. About 5-7 seconds after he AoEs he will lay down more minds and the old ones will explode. Make sure and avoid the mines at all cost because if your within 5yrds of them they will most likely kill you in one shot. (Rogue tip - Cloak of shadows will not resist the AoE so it is important for all melee to run out also sprint is good.)

Phase 2
During this phase he cannot be tanked. He will fire mostly at the ranged players and he will turn around alot. The gun fire can hit you if your not moving around the back of the boss. Staying mobile is very important but you also need to watch your feet. Every once in awhile he will put a red target on the ground and fire off a rocket that will do over 1million damage to you if your in the red circle when it goes off. Most of the time he doesnt do this to melee but when he doesnt it will kill anyone in it. So watch your feet and try to stay behind him as much as possible. (Rogue tip - Use your feignt to soften the AoE damage if you can.)

Phase 3
This is when things get really interesting. Your raid leader will most likely have a designated postion for raid to stack up on. If ranged DPS is doing its job right you will have a ranged tank on Mimi and some ranged DPS designated to kill the Bomb Bots. When a bomb bot is coming you still need to avoid it. Get this, Bomb Bots EXPLODE...Gasp! When the larger robots spawn and die someone will most likely be designated to grab the magnetic core that drops and place it under mimis head. If you are the person that is doing this then make sure you ask for assistance so that you can make this macro for the raid.

/rw DROPPING MIMIs HEAD!!!

Spam that macro and call it on vent before you drop the head down. I found that the magnet has to be almost directly under his head so that it will work also. I turned my camera top-down GTA 1-2 style for this. It helped me find out exactly where mimi was flying and where to drop the core. Rogue Tip - Tricks of the trade should be put to very good use here with the amount of free roaming adds that will spawn. ToTT and then Fan of knives to give your tanks more threat on the adds. When the larger Robot spawns make sure to focus fire.

Phase 4
The only thing i have to say about this phase is that it is basically a combination of the first two phases for melee. To make it easy im just gonna recap.

1. Watch the mines
2. Get ready to run out when he cast the AoE
3. Watch your feet for a red circle for the missile that he fires

There will be no adds so dont worry about a core of anything. Make sure and slow DPS on a certain section when the raid leader calls it out. They all have to die at the same time. For rogues combat spec works really well on this fight but mutilate will do just fine. Have fun, this is my favorite fight in the whole raid so far!


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»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22406659 Mon, 18 May 2009 14:54:47 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22406506 Critsmcgee : I been trying out these new swords the last few days ive had them. I have yet to do a serious 25 man with them yet but i did do a 25 man OS+1 drake pug and they did well. It seems that my killing spree does alot more damage because of the extra procs. I resocketed AGI for the extra crit and switched from 18/51/2 to 15/51/5 for a smoother rotation from the lack of SS crits for the glyph. I cant wait to use them in this next weeks raids. Oh and that sword is the Silent Crusader, and it drops from 25 man naxx trash. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22406506 Mon, 18 May 2009 14:30:03 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22406486 djlar : I was specced into swords a few weeks back, when I got a pair of that cool looking sword on Naxx (the blue sword that ends on a ring type tip), pairing those was cool looking and fun, not much dps wise, with 5 pts on sword spec talent the "extra attack" was proc'ing 1%, which sux, are they ever gonna fix that sword spec?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22406486 Mon, 18 May 2009 14:25:00 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22398737 Critsmcgee : Im not sure. Im just wondering if this new sword i got has the correct AP on it. There is level 70 items with better AP bonuses if you dont look at the AGI. It looks like it should be 88 instead of 38.

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/?i=45266]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22398737 Sat, 16 May 2009 15:03:17 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22398507 Tehuno : if rogue sword spec has a 6 sec ICD like the warrior version, its a garbage talent. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22398507 Sat, 16 May 2009 13:52:38 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22398094 Critsmcgee : I had a question i thought i would throw up in the rogue topic because i cant get a good search on this controlled internet at work. I was just got Malice, and Remorse last night from 25 man Ulduar and i was wondering if any Sword rogue could give me some information. I have NEVER been swords as a rogue but it works out perfectly because now we have one sword, one mace, and one fist rogue. Here are some of the ?'s i have.

Does the extra attack proc poisons?

Does the extra attack proc off of all attacks? (FoK, Killing spree, etc)

How is the DPS with swords these days compared to fist? Now keep in mind i went from the 10 man naxx fist and webbed death to these bad babys all at once so im expecting an increase.

Thanks in advance!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22398094 Sat, 16 May 2009 11:29:30 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395215 Tehuno :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

said by Sithra See Profile :

I've always been of the impression that melee players are a lot more talented that ranged, on average. It's just harder, if some of the ranged DPS in our guild tried to play melee it would be hilarious.
I agree with this. It seems that most ranged have harder rotations than melee though but at the same time dont have to move as much. Warlocks have some crazy button mashing going on but in turn as a melee on fights like mimiron/ignis/Hodir i am constantly moving to avoid shit. Ive had my laptop for about 3 months now and ive worn the paint off of my WASD keys and my 1-4 buttons.
thats kinda laughable. take a fight like thorim where melee is facerolling in 1 spot while i can BARELY get off a 1.6 sec cast in between moving(well hard mode at least). and we move just as much if not more on hodir. mirion you have a point on.
with the strat we use on yogg, ranged finished adds in middle dodging clouds while melee stands in 1 spot out of clouds way.

there are fights tougher for melee, and there are fights tougher for ranged.
ive played all 4 possible roles in endgame raiding(tank/heal/ranged dps/melee dps), and all are tough in their own rights.

and if your wasd keys are rubbed off, quit keyboard turning and clicking, good for you, you are melee and dont have to do the quick turn on yogg :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395215 Fri, 15 May 2009 16:33:59 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395183 djlar : Go berserker enchant in main hand, although it will cost you 1000G just the mats....

But I will wait on KT 25 drop of Calamity's grasp.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395183 Fri, 15 May 2009 16:26:12 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395079 anon : I'm 15 51 5 right now with KT's Reach, and Murder, I equipped Webbed Death today, hoping to see some improvement since I looked at shadow panther. All weapons have 50+atk power enchant, and I usually am ontop, I have duel specs, and I'm just curious to know if I should have Combat PVE with Combat/HaT spec. At the moment I have Combat PVE + Mutilate PVE. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22395079 Fri, 15 May 2009 16:04:21 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22393017 djlar : I pulled #1 DPS last night on Razorscale, even though I was the activate the harpoons task...

A tip for Razor: just like Malygos, use your killing spree just before you are being sent flying (with wing buffet)..

Shhh don't tell blizz or they nerf us again...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22393017 Fri, 15 May 2009 09:23:28 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22391249 anon : yes i have been finding as well that rogues are topping dps say during patchwork we were getting hammered by locks mages etc before the patch but now i find im actually pulling more dps then them. also broke the 8k dps meter during thadius was really happy out this lol. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22391249 Thu, 14 May 2009 20:52:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382674 Critsmcgee : Its not the playing its the fapping]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382674 Wed, 13 May 2009 12:27:33 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382662 JIGA :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

said by Sithra See Profile :

I've always been of the impression that melee players are a lot more talented that ranged, on average. It's just harder, if some of the ranged DPS in our guild tried to play melee it would be hilarious.
I agree with this. It seems that most ranged have harder rotations than melee though but at the same time dont have to move as much. Warlocks have some crazy button mashing going on but in turn as a melee on fights like mimiron/ignis/Hodir i am constantly moving to avoid shit. Ive had my laptop for about 3 months now and ive worn the paint off of my WASD keys and my 1-4 buttons.
You gotta clean your hands after your session! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382662 Wed, 13 May 2009 12:24:33 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382604 Critsmcgee :
said by Sithra See Profile :

I've always been of the impression that melee players are a lot more talented that ranged, on average. It's just harder, if some of the ranged DPS in our guild tried to play melee it would be hilarious.
I agree with this. It seems that most ranged have harder rotations than melee though but at the same time dont have to move as much. Warlocks have some crazy button mashing going on but in turn as a melee on fights like mimiron/ignis/Hodir i am constantly moving to avoid shit. Ive had my laptop for about 3 months now and ive worn the paint off of my WASD keys and my 1-4 buttons. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382604 Wed, 13 May 2009 12:14:42 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382522 Sithra : I've always been of the impression that melee players are a lot more talented that ranged, on average. It's just harder, if some of the ranged DPS in our guild tried to play melee it would be hilarious.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382522 Wed, 13 May 2009 12:01:44 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382479 Zyncotl :
said by Dropper See Profile :

As a rogue you learn to move and avoid things that kill you, and that usually means you're more useful when it comes to fights that involve hideously complicated issues like circles on the floor and fire.
I agree with this wholly. I haven't raided in over a year as I took time off from the game, and I was never in a high end raiding guild as I also enjoy the real world, but take a fight like Netherspite... it amazed me how many people couldn't do the simple coordination required in that fight let alone how many couldn't shuffle 10 feet vs prince yet I could survive not only death from above but also moving in and out of melee range.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382479 Wed, 13 May 2009 11:54:55 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382435 JIGA :
said by crytz See Profile :

said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Before 3.1 i wouldnt hesitate calling rogues the red-headed stepchild of melee dps. We were/are squishy, lower damage than DKs and fury war, we had/have little or no raid utility. With this patch i see rogues being more important to a raid. Even when we brought 4 rogues with us one raid we were the top 4 on DPS and damage most of the fights. Rogues are deff back to being the blunt object that we were during BC. When we are buffed and played right we are rewarded with being the top damage dealers.

Now i do think that ranged have it easier in some situations they do have their own matters to take care of. Ranged seems to spend more time CCing and taking care of adds and such. Although they arent as mobile as melee classes they offer flexibility to raids because most bosses can be done with all ranged but not many can be done with all melee. I understand ranged dps being more sought after but at the same time i like them giving melee higher DPS in the end of burn fight than most ranged. GG blizz, gg!
I'll agree to that 100%, last night I was in the top 1-5 on most fights in our 25 man ulduar and we have some sick dps and many with a decent amount of ulduar loot while I've got mostly naxx 25 loot and I'm still able to top meters. Thanks blizz =)
Since 3.1 I have only had the chance to run one 25 man Naxx that was a failure at Saph, 1 25 man OS, 2 25 man VOA's, and 1 10 man VOA. In every raid I was either #1 in damage done/DPS or in the top 5. The only reason I get into these raids is due to a real life friend of mine recommends me to the raid leaders. When I try to find a raid on my own I always show my achievements, my stats, knowledge of the fights, and gear if need be (armory Jimz-Dragonmaw). Yet I cannot for the life of me get into raids by myself, they always want "ranged DPS"...

It sucks. I know that I am going to put out good DPS, at least in the top 5 depending on others, yet they don't want to invite melee DPS because they think we are going to die... This shit isn't hard... easy to get out of range, evasion, feint, sprint, etc. but yet the raid leaders are so hard headed... Must be a Dragonmaw server mentality. I hate it...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22382435 Wed, 13 May 2009 11:47:05 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381763 crytz :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Before 3.1 i wouldnt hesitate calling rogues the red-headed stepchild of melee dps. We were/are squishy, lower damage than DKs and fury war, we had/have little or no raid utility. With this patch i see rogues being more important to a raid. Even when we brought 4 rogues with us one raid we were the top 4 on DPS and damage most of the fights. Rogues are deff back to being the blunt object that we were during BC. When we are buffed and played right we are rewarded with being the top damage dealers.

Now i do think that ranged have it easier in some situations they do have their own matters to take care of. Ranged seems to spend more time CCing and taking care of adds and such. Although they arent as mobile as melee classes they offer flexibility to raids because most bosses can be done with all ranged but not many can be done with all melee. I understand ranged dps being more sought after but at the same time i like them giving melee higher DPS in the end of burn fight than most ranged. GG blizz, gg!
I'll agree to that 100%, last night I was in the top 1-5 on most fights in our 25 man ulduar and we have some sick dps and many with a decent amount of ulduar loot while I've got mostly naxx 25 loot and I'm still able to top meters. Thanks blizz =)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381763 Wed, 13 May 2009 09:50:18 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381091 Sithra : You'll probably find it easier on Vezax if you just have 2 interrupters that alternate, that's how we do it. Myself and another rogue only missed one interrupt on 7 attempts (got him on the 7th).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22381091 Wed, 13 May 2009 04:10:03 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22379339 Dropper : Yeah I have to agree with the "more dps" comment.

I stand there waiting for a second attempt against one of the easiest bosses in the game (Sapphiron) and the comment is our DPS was too low.

We had range dps standing there in full 25 man epics, mostly with 4-set 25 man tier bonuses, and they're doing 1200 dps.

This fight has an irrelevant enrage timer for people in blues, so that was just being as useless as you can be.

I'm the only one that brought over 4K dps, and I'm getting criticized for not specing sub and having the 30% aoe protection. Like it was my fault the range classes died from being too stupid to run out of aoe damage or get behind an iceblock with double the time needed to do so.

This was 10 man, so it's even more inexcusable that it took 2 attempts to do it. We one-shotted this fker on our first clear of Naxx without an explanation of the fight, so I guess it was just one of those nights when too many players were just tagging along for loot.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22379339 Tue, 12 May 2009 19:09:12 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378986 Critsmcgee : Before 3.1 i wouldnt hesitate calling rogues the red-headed stepchild of melee dps. We were/are squishy, lower damage than DKs and fury war, we had/have little or no raid utility. With this patch i see rogues being more important to a raid. Even when we brought 4 rogues with us one raid we were the top 4 on DPS and damage most of the fights. Rogues are deff back to being the blunt object that we were during BC. When we are buffed and played right we are rewarded with being the top damage dealers.

Now i do think that ranged have it easier in some situations they do have their own matters to take care of. Ranged seems to spend more time CCing and taking care of adds and such. Although they arent as mobile as melee classes they offer flexibility to raids because most bosses can be done with all ranged but not many can be done with all melee. I understand ranged dps being more sought after but at the same time i like them giving melee higher DPS in the end of burn fight than most ranged. GG blizz, gg!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378986 Tue, 12 May 2009 18:05:06 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378901 djlar : I hate when Raid Leaders cry about not enough DPS for X boss to the entire raid, and I'm sitting at 5K dps while the second best it's at 3.5K, even with all the interrupting and moving around.

Also the fact that they think that melee DPS only gets in the way, I rarely see recruitment for melee DPS, they want ranged.

Being rogue is hard, melee dps is often forgotten, we never get b-rezzed or sometimes healed, and some bosses move around a lot while ranged sit in their confort zone we are the ones avoiding mobs while controlling aggro and interrupting and stun blocking mobs.

When I out dps everybody on Malygos that's a Moving boss and even with air phases somethings wrong with the other classes...

heck last night I out dps by 1K on Heigan, Grobbulus and Shapphiron]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378901 Tue, 12 May 2009 17:47:49 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378591 Dropper : There aren't enough fights that need interrupts for that to be true. There are a few like this one and KT, and of course things like the gundrak boss achievement, but by itself it isn't a good enough reason to bring a rogue to a raid unless you are doing those bosses.

As far as usefulness goes, my rogue regularly will regularly out-dps other classes that have significant gear advantages over me. I don't actually know why, but I'm guessing it has something to do with being used to moving around rather than standing still and shooting.

As a rogue you learn to move and avoid things that kill you, and that usually means you're more useful when it comes to fights that involve hideously complicated issues like circles on the floor and fire.

If you are aware enough to avoid boss aoe then you are usually aware enough to not stand on things that kill you.

I used to have a range dps as a main and I am absolutely convinced that learning to survive as a rogue means I have an upper hand when it comes to things like that.

If I put out double the dps of a mage that has full 25 man drops as opposed to my 10 man gear, then something is happening that shouldn't be. Usually it's the standing still in fire or circles thing. Dead mages in full 25 man gear don't do much dps. That's just an example of course, I'm not saying mages in general stand in more hazards than other classes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378591 Tue, 12 May 2009 16:51:51 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378153 dynodb :
said by Dropper See Profile :

Okay I guess my real point is when it comes to aggro wipes and interrupts, every class should have at least one of each. That way you'd have 10 or 25 interrupters instead of 3 or 4 and this fight would actually make sense.
No- that would suck for rogues. That we have an interrupt on a 10 sec CD is one of the few reasons to bring a rogue aside from DPS. Even with strong DPS (post-3.1), rogues are awfully squishy for a melee class which tends to put extra pressure on the healer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22378153 Tue, 12 May 2009 15:38:35 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376866 Dropper : I hate fights where combo pts and finishing moves are less important than interrupting. It's like feign death for hunters. Only one class knows how to throw themselves on the floor and pretend to be dead.. and only one class has feet.

Okay I guess my real point is when it comes to aggro wipes and interrupts, every class should have at least one of each. That way you'd have 10 or 25 interrupters instead of 3 or 4 and this fight would actually make sense.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376866 Tue, 12 May 2009 12:02:27 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376789 anon : Hey guys, never posted here, but I ran across this thread and found it a good read. My guild got to Vezax last night as well I think we managed 4 attempts before calling it. The adds respawn after about an hour. We had 2 rogues and 2 DKs that were capable of interupting and I think we also had a warrior there that could pummel. The first attempt the other rogue just didnt save enough energy for kick and so the raid was wiped pretty quickly. We were unorganized and just flat out add issues making sure the Searing flames got interupted. The raid leader took all of us (interupters) and stuck us in our own vent channel and spilt us into 2 "groups" each with a rogue and a DK one person would call who's group was up to interupt after each cast, if someone missed a cast (usually from being trigger happy and interupting on a SD cast) we'd call it out just to let the rest of us know that we had to fill in for that missed interupt. We didnt miss a single interupt in the final 2 attempts. The fight was long as hell and the reason we wiped the last 2 times was something to do with the tank not getting enough heals. That fight seems really long and a single blown interupt on a SF cast can really fowl things up, anyways I just thought Id share our experiences. It was one of those fights I wished I had the extra 2 points into the FoK interupt talent. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376789 Tue, 12 May 2009 11:47:16 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376346 Critsmcgee : Its funny that you mention Vezax last night because i did the same thing. We didnt down him and we have 3 rogues and several other classes interrupting. We just had several problems hitting us at once and for some reason the trash respawned after a little over an hour and ended it early. On the last pull we tried trash respawn during the pull. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22376346 Tue, 12 May 2009 10:27:17 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22375427 Sithra :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Rolling with a feral drood imo is why the T8 bonus will be op OP.

Mangle
45 Energy Melee Range
Instant
Requires Cat Form
Mangle the target for 200% normal damage plus 634 and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from bleed effects for 12 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
Thanks I'm sure we all needed to know what mangle did.

A warrior with Trauma provides the same thing as well.

I did Vezax last night, that'll seperate the rogues from the bads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22375427 Tue, 12 May 2009 03:43:33 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22373167 Dropper : The difference between 8 agility and 16 ap is negligible for rogues. That's why theory crafters tell you to get one of the two, not that one is better than the other.

When it comes to blue gems they say get the 8 agi / 12 stam or 16 ap / 12 stam. When it comes to orange get 16 ap / whatever else you need or 8 agi / whatever else you need.

Neither is that much of an advantage over the other, because what you lose in crit you gain in AP, what you lose in AP you gain in crit.

Crit is good, attack power is good, not dying is even better and hitting as much as possible (while not dying) is best of all.

The bottom line is none of us have enough gem sockets to make a significant difference one way or the other. Even if you had 8 sockets and 3 of those could use red gems, the most you'd gain is 88 ap or just over 1% crit depending on what you swapped out. Neither of those is enough to make more than a small difference to someone putting out 4K or more dps depending on buffs. Most of us have 6 or 7 gem sockets at most, and most of us have a mix of gems - so you wouldn't get close to the max benefit I'm talking about.

I run with pallys probably once every 5 or 6 raids, so even multipliers don't matter that much to me. Others may want to think about what they get from their buffs and whether that 88 ap or 1% crit would be more beneficial depending on the buffs they get.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22373167 Mon, 11 May 2009 18:20:52 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372701 Darkspite : yup]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372701 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:50:55 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372695 Critsmcgee : Rolling with a feral drood imo is why the T8 bonus will be op OP.

Mangle
45 Energy Melee Range
Instant
Requires Cat Form
Mangle the target for 200% normal damage plus 634 and causes the target to take 30% additional damage from bleed effects for 12 sec. Awards 1 combo point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372695 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:49:41 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372671 Darkspite : Once you get a four piece T8 you'll probably want to stack agi since your rupture will have a chance to crit. :p Especially if you run with a pally. But in any event it is only a slight difference and at this point is somewhat childish to split hairs and take it personally.

~Darkspite]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372671 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:44:08 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372665 AthlGrond :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Basically you said it when you posted. The glyph of SS is how you will generate more combo points with higher crit.
Thanks!

I was wondering if I missed something.
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372665 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:43:32 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372627 AthlGrond : You assumed we meant you need dodge and armor for boss fights?

Seriously?

:hmm:

OK then.
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372627 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:37:07 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372585 Critsmcgee : @AthlGrond.

Basically you said it when you posted. The glyph of SS is how you will generate more combo points with higher crit.

EDIT: Spelling]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372585 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:29:52 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372578 AthlGrond :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

said by AthlGrond See Profile :

said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Tricks of the trade is your friend
Agreed.

(Even if it doesn't add to your DPS. ;))
Have a second rogue use ToTT on you for fights where threat isnt an issue. Instant DPS boost every 30 seconds.
But, alas, it isn't something you can do for yourself to get a DPS boost.

So, anyway, I'm still wondering what your thoughts were on how Relentless Strikes benefits from an increase in critical strike percent.
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372578 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:28:41 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372567 slashr : Whirlwinds?
If you guys are just flaming about trash mobs then I apologize. I assumed this was a discussion on how to maximize rogue dps on bosses only. So I am certainly wrong about that then. But who really gives a crap anyway about trash. If the mob whirlwinds then just avoid it. My point was meant to be that there is no boss fight that requires a rogue to need defensive stats. So to clear that up, you will not survive a hit from a boss regardless of what you are wearing. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372567 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:27:14 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372551 Critsmcgee :
said by AthlGrond See Profile :

said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Tricks of the trade is your friend
Agreed.

(Even if it doesn't add to your DPS. ;))
Have a second rogue use ToTT on you for fights where threat isnt an issue. Instant DPS boost every 30 seconds.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372551 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:24:38 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372540 Critsmcgee :
said by JIGA See Profile :

said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Tricks of the trade is your friend
That's just amazing. Best reply ever.

You just derailed this from your original debate of Agility vs Attack Power, which my reply obviously flew right over your head. Love how you responded... :uhh:
Thats because the subject changed from Maximizing rogue DPS to Dodging melee attacks and armor. Kinda wondering where all of the melee'ing is going down. You even stating armor and dodge are complete irrelevant to anything i talked about. I know you were "just stating" what agility provides, but that has nothing to do with DPS...at all. I have no problem with debating about one thing over another. I think i know this class well but im still learning alot. Discussions like this open me up to different views, and opinions. Saying "look at the spreadsheet" seems like you dont ever wonder why. I admit the spreadsheets are very helpful BUT i wouldnt use them as absolutes for maximizing damage on the majority of the fights in ulduar. I take things from the spreadsheets and try to apply them to my own knowledge of the ecounter and class mechanics to provide what i believe is the best interpretation of the most damage you can do during a certain encounter.Yea, Sometimes i might be wrong but at the same time its why i love this class. Its a synergy of different things that make someone better, and no book, website, or manual can tell you exactly how to reach Zen with your character and how you want to play it to get the best output. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372540 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:22:53 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372503 JIGA :
said by AthlGrond See Profile :

said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Tricks of the trade is your friend
Agreed.

(Even if it doesn't add to your DPS. ;))
It's a great ability which is spammed from my bar every time the cooldown is up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372503 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:15:25 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372491 AthlGrond :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Tricks of the trade is your friend
Agreed.

(Even if it doesn't add to your DPS. ;))
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372491 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:13:43 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372488 JIGA :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Tricks of the trade is your friend
That's just amazing. Best reply ever.

You just derailed this from your original debate of Agility vs Attack Power, which my reply obviously flew right over your head. Love how you responded... :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372488 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:13:15 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372417 Critsmcgee : Tricks of the trade is your friend

Im not saying armor and dodge arent useful. My statement is that there is no boss/trash encounter setup for rogues to take direct melee damage. Whirlwinds are nice but with planning they can be avoided. Its why we have sprint,evasion and CoS for survivability. Ive tinkered around with spreadsheets and gotten different results. It seems that alot of the spreadsheets are for sustained DPS. How can you calculate the amount of variables in a boss encounter? Bosses like Thorim where you spend half of the fight running and AoEing. Certain bosses are easy to plop onto a spreadsheet like Deconstructer. For the most part though the amount of math it would take to find out what would do more dps on the majority of the encounters in Ulduar would be mind boggling. Its hard to look at spreadsheets as absolutes. There are certain fights that require situational DPS and it really is only important to MAX damage during that time (i.e. malygos with sparks, razorscale, thorim, etc). When that happens the spreadsheets loose me. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372417 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:01:21 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372413 JIGA :
said by AthlGrond See Profile :

said by slashr See Profile :

Armor and dodge are completely irrelevant in raids.
If you get hit in a raid you are dead regardless of what you are wearing.
I thought there were trash fights where you got pounded on plenty.

Good to know. That means I can take evasion off the toolbar.
Yup, lets do that. I mean, we never get hit. And like slashr said, if we get hit we're dead no matter what we are wearing :uhh: I must be some type of phenomenon when I get hit in a raid and live, which has happened dozen of times. Oh and damn, I guess I shouldn't have used my evasion during all those whirlwinds too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372413 Mon, 11 May 2009 16:00:35 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372390 AthlGrond :
said by slashr See Profile :

Armor and dodge are completely irrelevant in raids.
If you get hit in a raid you are dead regardless of what you are wearing.
I thought there were trash fights where you got pounded on plenty.

Good to know. That means I can take evasion off the toolbar.
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372390 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:57:14 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372368 JIGA :
said by slashr See Profile :

Armor and dodge are completely irrelevant in raids.
If you get hit in a raid you are dead regardless of what you are wearing.
Then go stack AP gems only and get only AP return.

I myself will be stacking Agility gems for ALL of it's benefits.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372368 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:52:32 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372358 slashr : Armor and dodge are completely irrelevant in raids.
If you get hit in a raid you are dead regardless of what you are wearing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372358 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:50:18 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372357 JIGA :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

said by JIGA See Profile :

said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap.
I don't recall stating Armor and Dodge having anything to do with DPS... infact I didn't.

I stated Agility provides more and listed what it does provide.
Can you read the topic title please then and keep this on the subject of DPS and not Armor and Dodge. Thank you! I was wondering where you heard a clear answer that Agi is better than AP also? Just curious if ive missed something.
Jesus man... what part of following a thread is hard to understand. You post, I reply.

I was replying to your post of "My verdict on aiming for Agility or Attack Power." for 2009-05-11 13:55:22

No shit this isn't about Dodge or Armor, it's about you debating Agility vs Attack Power. All I did was simply list what Agility provides.

»elitistjerks.com/f78/ Read the threads or download the spreadsheet and run the simulation with all Agil or all AP and see the difference.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372357 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:50:15 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372340 AthlGrond :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Can you read the topic title please then and keep this on the subject of DPS and not Armor and Dodge. Thank you! I was wondering where you heard a clear answer that Agi is better than AP also? Just curious if ive missed something.
If you are dead you do 0 DPS. (To tie armor and dodge to DPS.)

I have a question from your AGI post above you say:
"The reason being is that you want the most critical strikes to maximize the use of 5 combo point finishing moves for Relentless strikes."

About the only way I see the improving of your critical strike percent would have a positive impact on Relentless Strikes is from using a Sinister Strike glyph. (Is that what you meant, or did I miss something?)

Oh, and I think your biggest impact for combat from critical strikes would be the damage bonus from Prey on the Weak. (Not the chance for a combo point from the SS glyph.)
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372340 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:45:08 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372237 Critsmcgee :
said by JIGA See Profile :

said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap.
I don't recall stating Armor and Dodge having anything to do with DPS... infact I didn't.

I stated Agility provides more and listed what it does provide.
Can you read the topic title please then and keep this on the subject of DPS and not Armor and Dodge. Thank you! I was wondering where you heard a clear answer that Agi is better than AP also? Just curious if ive missed something.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372237 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:25:09 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372181 JIGA :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap.
I don't recall stating Armor and Dodge having anything to do with DPS... infact I didn't.

I stated Agility provides more and listed what it does provide.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372181 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:14:52 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372159 Critsmcgee : Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372159 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:11:19 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372152 JIGA : Ejerks already stated Agility was better than AP. The two are so close in damage that it just makes more sense to stack agility since you receive more from it: Increases AP, armor, crit, and dodge.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372152 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:10:20 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372051 Critsmcgee : My verdict on aiming for Agility or Attack Power.

This is something that seems like a trivial subject amongst rogues. Some say its better to socket AP and other say that its better to socket AGI. Heres my opinion on how to effectively gear and spec for either. The main arguement i here is that AP doesnt stack with kings, at the same time you cant forget the bonus from Trueshot aura is better with AP than with AGI. This is just my 2-cents on this and nothing has been theory crafted or pounded out. There was little napkin math used here and there but nothing serious. Regardless of which one you choose it wont make a HUGE dps difference really.

Combat spec - Agility vs Attack Power
For the most part with combat spec your gonna wanna do agi with 15/51/5
. The reason being is that you want the most critical strikes to maximize the use of 5 combo point finishing moves for Relentless strikes. Stack gear with Agi and socket as much Agi as possible. With the alternative combat spec 18/51/2 you want as much rupture and poison damage as possible. Both
specs will do around the same DPS. The HUGE difference i believe we will see is when you get the 4 set T8 bonus. It seems that after you get more and more T8 gear agi will take its place as the true thing to stack for the most DPS for combat spec at least.

Mutilate spec - Agility Vs Attack Power
Mutilate spec is a little different than combat spec. A larger percentage of the damage is from poisons. The difference whether to use Agility or Attack Power for combat spec seems to come from your weapon choices. When i raid i use either two Sinister revenge, or Sinister revenge MH and Webbed death OH. With dual sinister revenge im attacking alot slower and really counting on my damage from mutilates to make up for the loss of focused attack procs. because the procs from focused attacks are lower and i need as many critical strikes as possible i see agi being better for this setup and i see this spec (51/13/7) looking better here because of the increased chance to get Deadly poison back up after an envenom. The other setup is to use your slowest dagger in your MH and a fast OH dagger for more procs from focused attacks and more mutilates. IMO it seems better to do more AP with this setup because your going to have more and more chances to crit with the faster OH weapon. This spec (51/13/7) looks better because of the increased chance to crit with all attacks and you really dont have to worry about restacking DP with the fast OH weapon.Either way your should have no problem out putting some awesome DPS.

HaT spec - Agility VS Attack power
No contest here. With the increase of Sinister Calling you want to go all out on Agi. Stack it as high as possible.

In closing, either way your going to be doing well. Rogue DPS is right where it should be...at the top. With the 4 set we will see how it turns out. It might be better to stack agi for more Rupture crits, or to stack AP for more base Rupture damage. Doesnt seem like that big of a difference and the DPS seems mostly situational.
--
»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22372051 Mon, 11 May 2009 14:55:22 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22366663 Critsmcgee : yay 10k uniques!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22366663 Sun, 10 May 2009 09:58:08 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22352852 djlar : I've been unlucky with drops latetely, it's been like 3 straight 25 man naxx w/o grim troll (the one 4 weeks ago was grabbed by a DK with more EPGP), and sadly still 2 more DPS guys in front of me for that drop!

Heck I haven't got any upgrade since the first week of Ulduar, I got those bracers from Leviathan 25, that's it..

The fast DPS sword from Razorscale won't drop either, there seem to be more tank/cloth stuff dropping more than anything...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22352852 Thu, 07 May 2009 09:31:13 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22349960 Dropper : Trinket from the first boss in Ulduar will give you nearly 1/3rd the hit rating you need for your melee dps.

I have the grim toll which gives me just over a quarter.

As for other gear, it is out there, you just have to watch carefully when you examine drops. The general rule of thumb at the moment is tier pieces give you your best combination of stats if you have other pieces like these trinkets that give you the hit rating you need.

Another example of a top class drop is Anarchy from 10 man Naxx (KT). Hit rating, agility and just about fast enough (faster would be better, which is why this is a 10 man drop).

But even so with the haste you get from a ton of items that 1.8 weapon speed soon goes down to 1.4 - 1.5.

Haste is awesome as long as you have the attack power, crit and hit rating to go with it.

A 4 set of 10 man or 25 man tier items, the grim toll or infuser thing from Ulduar and 1 weapon with hit rating should let you reach that 315 hit rating (poison cap) easily. You just need to gem correctly to get there if it doesn't. I doubt you'd need more than a couple of 8 agi / 8 hit rating gems.

You should also have over 33% crit and well over 3600 AP (complemented by plenty of haste) from that sort of setup too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22349960 Wed, 06 May 2009 17:25:43 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22349816 djlar : It's like Ulduar loot is tailored for DKs, most of the stuff os Apen or Str or Haste, where's the agility and hit gear?

There are maybe 2 or 3 pieces with those 2, but there are many slots to upgrade, do they want us to go haste? I mean .1 seconds faster swings are nothing, we will have to be like 20% haste up to notice any difference, but now you'll swing faster and miss a lot....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22349816 Wed, 06 May 2009 16:56:36 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22347569 Benty : OR dodge... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22347569 Wed, 06 May 2009 10:09:03 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22347530 crytz : Yeah if you roll on Strn gear against warriors/plate guys your bad. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22347530 Wed, 06 May 2009 10:01:40 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22347497 djlar : Well this rogue was a guildie, I sold him the sword of jin I got from heroic instance trash mobs, he respecced combat, how he's weareing Anub's fist weapon and the sword, his dps is up as I told him so...

Last night at Leviathan we got a DPS ring drop, but it has like 80 Str, 80 Stam, Armor Pen rating and hit rating..

I wish str was 2 AP as other classes but str is only 1 to 1 for rogues.. I had to pass on taht ring (ilevel 216)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22347497 Wed, 06 May 2009 09:56:49 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22346875 crytz : If mutilate didnt require daggers you'd see 8-10k dps rogues out there and 2 shotting people in pvp.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22346875 Wed, 06 May 2009 07:21:07 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22346710 Sithra :
said by AthlGrond See Profile :

Wow, I didn't even notice that mutilate no longer requires daggers.
Er, it does.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22346710 Wed, 06 May 2009 04:14:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22344204 AthlGrond : Wow, I didn't even notice that mutilate no longer requires daggers.
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22344204 Tue, 05 May 2009 17:38:29 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22344146 djlar : I've seen a rogue with the Headless Horseman lvl 70 sword in the offhand... I was like what? and he's mutilate with a fast fist MH.

Well he's 2300 dps while I'm 4K+ figures..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22344146 Tue, 05 May 2009 17:27:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22329202 Critsmcgee : Yea BiS or Best in Slot gear is debatable for every person. There is always a full optimal set for THE MOST dps, but most people wont get that out of ulduar with the defficulty of the hard modes. At least not for some time at least. If you are under the hit cap them something like grim toll will be BiS for you. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22329202 Sat, 02 May 2009 13:21:21 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317323 Sithra :
said by Dropper See Profile :

If they have a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating, you get a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating - even if it's a blue while you wait for a decent drop.
That's not true. It doesn't matter which item the stats on, as long as the balance between the stats is correct.

EG is Elitist Gerks I presume?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22317323 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:54:26 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22314468 AthlGrond :
said by Dropper See Profile :

And yes, the bit about the Libarian Cutter was true. It was because the faster weapon meant more hits and therefore more poison procs. What I don't know is if this thinking is still correct, but as it's a fast offhand weapon it does still make this an ideal offhand until you get something like Anarchy or better.
The fast off-hand is to get Combat Potency procs (and still is). That you got more poison applications is a side effect.

Only wound and instant poisons are weapon speed independent, the others haven't changed. (Unless they were changed outside of the announced changes.)

said by 3.1 patch notes :
•Deadly Poison: The amount of damage this poison generates from the rogue’s attack power has been increased from 8% per application to 12%.
•Instant Poison: Redesigned to have its chance to be applied based on the speed of the weapon (frequency-based).
•Wound Poison: Redesigned to have its chance to be applied based on the speed of the weapon (frequency-based).

--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22314468 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:37:32 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22314011 Dropper : Before the 3.1 patch there was a guide to which poison to put on which weapon, depending on your offhand weapon speed.

This only applied to combat spec'd rogues. If your weapon speed (as shown on the character page after haste improvements) was 1.4 or less you used it one way, if it was slower than 1.4 you did the opposite.

But that is irrelevant now as poison's chance to hit has changed. It is now always deadly on offhand, wound poison on mainhand. Your chance to poison increases with the speed of your weapon, therefore you want deadly on your fastest weapon.

I actually use instant poison on my mainhand because I don't follow these things precisely. I just seem to get more out of instant poison than I do from wound poison. Maybe it's because I'm not as good as other players, I don't really care.

And yes, the bit about the Libarian Cutter was true. It was because the faster weapon meant more hits and therefore more poison procs. What I don't know is if this thinking is still correct, but as it's a fast offhand weapon it does still make this an ideal offhand until you get something like Anarchy or better.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22314011 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:08:42 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313964 Critsmcgee : Why would you want wound poison on your fast OH? Did you read about the PPM change to poisons? A slow weapon will proc poisons about the same speed as a fast weapon now, BUT poisons will only proc off of MH finishers: like rupture, and eviscerate. I dont see a reason you would want wound poisons on our OH weapon for combat spec. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313964 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:58:15 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313871 anon : meant deadly for mh and wound for offhand]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313871 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:41:56 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313858 anon : heard for combat that you were to use do on main hand and so on off if your offhand was 1.3 speed or faster like librarians cutter. Heard this from elitist jerks. Is this true?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313858 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:38:24 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313510 Critsmcgee : I agree with most of the stuff off of EG. Still i take caution to some of the user post. People also fail to believe that EG math is done on a controlled scale. People look at EG and shadowpanther as absolutes. Overall dps on a patchwerk style fight, yes. Other fights have alot more variables and you have to take that into account before you just look at a spreadsheet.

For instance i said something about using mark of the norgannon or a "use" trinket for certain fights as mutilate is good and every bashed it because they all looked at their spread sheets. Mutilate is the cooldownless spec, so throwing a CD trinket on for fights like Razorscale is good imo. Half of the fight is trash dps and the only part of the fight where you really are gonna get in some DPS is during the ground phases. This is when i think on use trinkets gain alot more value.

To sum up what im trying to say, you have to take EG and shadowpanther as tools to help you use your own common sense to choose the best gear. There is nothing out there to tell you exactly how to play your character in every situation. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313510 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:39:08 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313225 Dropper : Rupture is the second most important finishing move after slice n dice.

There's a reason why it doesn't crit unless you have a 4-set bonus T8 (and therefore fighting the toughest bosses in the game) and that's because it would be op if it did.

The thing is it scales with AP, which is why it's so important to have things like the Darkmoon Card Greatness (equiv to 190 AP during fights) and berserking on at least one weapon.

Elistist jerks are the people who do the math. They are anal beyond belief and that means their website is where you go to get real information.

If they say you should use slice n dice / rupture with eviscerates when your slice n dice timer has 10s or more, then that's what you should do to maximise your dps.

Their numbers are worked using best in slot gear. That doesn't mean you HAVE to own that gear, it means you should use that gear as a guide. If they have a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating, you get a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating - even if it's a blue while you wait for a decent drop.

If they say use two fast daggers for mutilate they mean use two fast daggers even if your offhand is a blue because of it (they actually say this, that the weapon speed for the mainhand/offhand is more important than stats on the weapon or epic vs rare).

When they say use a slow fist weapon or sword in your MH and a fast dagger in your OH for combat then that's what you should do.

This is simply about getting the most DPS you can out of a spec. If that's not a major concern for you, then you do as you like and enjoy the game in the way you prefer to. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22313225 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:45:27 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22312636 djlar : I'm only finding rupture useful on bosses that move a lot, like Grobbulus, Heigan, Malygos, etc..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22312636 Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:00:54 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309084 Critsmcgee : As mutilate ive been looking at a ruptureless spec without deadly poisons. I was looking at stacking armor pen, taking glyph of evis and then going instant, instant, with two slow daggers and relying on armor pen for high white damage. Its prolly garbage but still armor pen has been getting alot more desirable these days.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22309084 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:46:53 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308971 Dropper : 512 hit sounds like some insane attempt to cap white damage. Don't, you'll never reach over 700 hit. The poison hit cap of 315 is good enough. There's no down side to having more, as long as it's not at the expense of anything else, but you can get rid of as many 16 hit gems as you want and replace them with 8 agi / 8 crit or 16 ap / 8 crit. There's no real difference, just get whatever is the cheaper of the two.

Berserking as Crit said is by far the best enchant for rogues. When you get a set of weapons you can't envisage changing for a few months, save up abyss crystals and get berserking for both. Until then you can make do with mongoose (if your enchanter still has the mats) or even potency (50 ap) while you save up your pennies.

The 15/51/5 and 18/51/2 are almost indistinguishable from each other, I've tried both. I go with the second because I can't be bothered to spend another 50g on yet one more respec.

Glyphs. Rupture, S&D and Sin Strike are the best. If you can't find a Rupture (seems to be difficult to get on some servers for some reason) grab an extra 5s of Adrenaline Rush. Not as good but it will do until you can get the rupture glyph. Eviscerate is only for times when you've hit 5 combo pts, already have your rupture applied and you still have at least 12s of S&D. Otherwise you re-apply S&D.

Exercise in Fail

Friend of mine spent 1000g on dual spec, set it up with Combat and Mutilate to see which was better. I was forced to remind him that as his fist weapon was mainhand only.

The bad part is he'd put the berserking enchant on both his weapons. He could have dropped the fist weapon for another dagger but now needs to save up for a 3rd berserking enchant to do it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308971 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:23:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308624 Critsmcgee : I gotta look into imp evis VS rupture. Im thinking that the 4 set bonus for t8 is what really helps rupture damage be on top. You might be on to something though with using Evis atm. Even when an evis doesnt crit it can still do 5-6k damage. Ive had some freak o.0 crits too. No to mention sometimes i drop a rupture on a target that dies before the full ticks expire and i guess that could be considered a considerable loss of damage. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22308624 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:28:21 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22301357 djlar : Interrupt with FoK interrupts any interruptable target withing range, tested it out on Kel'Thuzad and it works there, tried heroic nexus, it works on the caster boss split clones wonderfully..

BTW I was #1 DPS on:
25 men
Pathcwerk
Grobbulus
Gluth
Thaddious
Sapphiron
Kel'Thuzad
OS 25
Malygos 25 (I had to use every measure to drop aggro!)

I was on the 5.5K and above mark, and at least 1.5% better than the closest Deeps, this time was an uber geared mage.

DK's have dropped DPS consideraly now poor souls got the nerf bat, they were usually on top.

Still I am not noticing any DPS increase in improved Rupture Vs. Improved Eviscerate]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22301357 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:34:15 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22297144 Critsmcgee : I guess i did fail to mention that. Since Ulduar came out ive had such bad lag out here. I usually get on at raid time. Get into ulduar for 3-4 attempts then start lagging out so bad that i opt to sit out and hear the downing over vent. After last night im starting a break. Its pretty sad to flock to the internet place every night eith no hopes of your connection holding through the first 4 attempts. Im gonna try to level my running back up until i come back from this deploy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22297144 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:55:08 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22297137 Sithra : You've neglected to mention Feint on both the XT and Ignis fights.

We're 10 bosses down now, Thorim really slowed us down!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22297137 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:50:36 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22294605 Critsmcgee : --Ignis the furnace master 25--

19.6 Million Health

Spec Advantage
HaT>Mutilate>Combat

A. One phase fight
1. Reminds me of Grobbulous, high motion fight

B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Slag pot - deals 5000 dps on you over 10 seconds while in the slag pot
2. Flame Jets - massive AoE damage

Ignis, oh ignis. This guy is an interesting fight for healers. For rogues he is rather lackluster though. He reminds me of Grobb. The main thing i can say about ignis is that you want to stay behind him at all times. The tank will keep him moving because of the scorched earth he will leave behind.

At the start of this fight the tank will pull him and usually do some sort of small oval or square kiting path to keep from standing in the scorched earth. Every once in awhile he will stomp the ground and do flame jets that toss everyone into the air and do a lot of AoE damage to the raid. As tempting as it is to let off Cloak of shadows here, if you are surviving the flame jets then save cloak of shadows. Just like grobbs injection he will target one player at a time and put him in his Slag pot. During this time that player will take 5000dps for 10 seconds. As a rogue as soon as you enter slag pot let off cloak of shadows. This will save you from taking too much damage and yor healers should have no problem healing you for the last 4 seconds of it.

Like grobb this fight depends heavy on placement. If you are in front of ignis at the wrong time then there is a good chance you will get roasted to a crisp. STAY BEHIND IGNIS!! If you are staying behind and keeping your timing up on him then dps is pretty standard. Stick to your rotation because there is nothing to this fight but surviving.

--Tips--
If you find yourself in the slag pot and your cloak of shadows is on cooldown then when you get out (if you survive) you will have the haste buff for 10 seconds. If you pop a haste pot during this time then you will do a massive amount of damage over those 10 seconds. If youve already popped your haste pot then just dps as normal and enjoy the damage.
--
»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22294605 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 14:47:27 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291087 Critsmcgee : All casters hit. Its another reason that pvp combat will own face against casters.

This would prolly be a decent pvp combat build

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···9;58033;

Or something like this

»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···9;58033;]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291087 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:39:06 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291085 Critsmcgee : Berserking is the best enchant for weapons if you can afford it. Only get berserking on something good though. You can have alot less hit. Try going at about 350 if you have that much to throw around. You can get ALOT more ap and you will hit like a truck, your DP, and WP will tick harder too. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291085 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:38:39 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291084 AthlGrond :
said by djlar See Profile :

Being the only rogue in the guild I sacrificed 2 pts on Throwing spec to interrupt the casters 100% with Fan of Knives.

I think I misplaced a point there but I was getting 100 interrupts a fight with razorscale (30% to lighting chain).
I've had a question on that talent: Does it interrupt all casters hit, or just your target?
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291084 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:38:20 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291067 djlar : Being the only rogue in the guild I sacrificed 2 pts on Throwing spec to interrupt the casters 100% with Fan of Knives.

I think I misplaced a point there but I was getting 100 interrupts a fight with razorscale (30% to lighting chain).

With that we can use one less healer or if a healer drops to fireballs.

Now our problem is DPSing Razorscale which I was #1 with 5.6K.

Now about weapon enchants and hit rating..

Weapon: +65 permanent AP or chance to increase with Berserker? basically with perm 130 AP, and if I enchant Berserker on both, will they stack? Some say Berserker main and mongoose OH is good. (but it's a 1500g "test" I'm now willing to take until confirmed)

I'm 512 Hit right now, could I lose 16 hit on one slot to add +32 AP? since several things scale with AP.. or use a piece of gear with more AP and Expertise over hit, I maybe drop to 485.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22291067 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:34:45 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290942 Critsmcgee : 7/51/13 i think it was, with three point in serrated blades. that one is a no-go now. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290942 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:14:22 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290926 JIGA :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Thats a perfect spec for raids right there. Right now that is debatably the highest dps spec over 5 points in relentless strikes. The two raid specs are so close though that you wont see the difference over the course of a usual boss fight.
Thats what I read over at elitistjerks website. They stated 15/51/5 was top and that 18/51/2 was comparable in DPS for combat builds. The old spec of (can't remember exact spec) Serrated Blades didn't add up like it use to pre 3.1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290926 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:11:51 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290365 Critsmcgee : Thats a perfect spec for raids right there. Right now that is debatably the highest dps spec over 5 points in relentless strikes. The two raid specs are so close though that you wont see the difference over the course of a usual boss fight. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290365 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:23:20 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290175 AthlGrond : Here is the linked 18/51/2 build as a screen shot as requested.
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!
Click for full size
18/51/2
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22290175 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:50:14 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289819 Critsmcgee : 15/51/5 is debatable to use but 18/51/2 is also good if you drop those three points in imp poisons. The increased damage from poisons will make up for the difference.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289819 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:43:15 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289199 crytz :
said by djlar See Profile :

Ok I have a combat rogue, combat spec, but I use Eviscerate in my rotation, I was wondering if the 10% Crit from Glyph plus the points you set in damage in talents will do more damage than the DoT Rupture? (with 10% tier set bonus)

Because I rarely use Rupture, because I've been told that DoTs don't crit! (correct me if I'm wrong). So a Rupture will only do the 5K dmg Talented/buffed over time, instead of an instant 10K dmg from Eviscerante.

Still with this rotation I'm top DPS in my guild, doing almost 5.5K on Razorscale and 6K on XT (haven't advance any further to try Hodir).

My slow Main is "Calamitie's Grasp" and "murder" as OH hand, I do MH Instant and OH deadly poisons.

Any advise for my buid? (djlar, quel'thalas server)
Why wouldnt you max out your prey on the weak, and why put 1 point in unfair advantage instead, when your pve'ing and hardly ever get focused on? Other then that your spec is up to par with most combat specs except you use evis instead of rupture.

I think most good rogues should be on top or towards the top of dps meters now adays. I've been pulling comparable numbers around 5k+ as well. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22289199 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:39:58 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22288655 JIGA : Your talent preview site is blocked for me. I'm curious to see what your 18/51/2 setup looks like. If you can, could you take a screenshot of the page and post it?

15/51/5 has been the preferred combat build for majority of combat Rogues.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22288655 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:08:36 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22288323 Sithra : Rupture will do slightly less than a crit eviscerate, but unless you have a something like 70% eviscerate crit chance rupture will be better overall, even before you factor in the 10 less energy it costs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22288323 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 03:36:55 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22286615 anon : From my understanding the 10% evis crit glyph hasn't been useful since the HaT bug. I'm hearing some people put killing spree glyph over S&D glyph since 3.1 though. The standard seems to be sin strike/rupture/S&D.

The only time you should think about sneaking in a evis is if you have more than 10 seconds left on both S&D and rupture. Also if there is no warrior applying sunder you wanna use expose armor over evis. (they have changed sunder and expose armor to both do 20%)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22286615 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:32:33 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22286133 Critsmcgee : You should never use evis over rupture. Its nice to see the HUGE numbers and i dont doubt that it crits alot. You are underestimating rupture though. It does more than 5000 damage. It is increased by attack power. I dont know the formula right off the top of my head but its more than 5000. Without the 4 set bonus no rupture wont crit. Tell me what you think your buffed raid AP is and ill see if i can get the formula to see how much damage your rupture will leak out with the glyph and the 2 set im assuming. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22286133 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:56:11 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22286075 djlar : Ok I have a combat rogue, combat spec, but I use Eviscerate in my rotation, I was wondering if the 10% Crit from Glyph plus the points you set in damage in talents will do more damage than the DoT Rupture? (with 10% tier set bonus)

Because I rarely use Rupture, because I've been told that DoTs don't crit! (correct me if I'm wrong). So a Rupture will only do the 5K dmg Talented/buffed over time, instead of an instant 10K dmg from Eviscerante.

Still with this rotation I'm top DPS in my guild, doing almost 5.5K on Razorscale and 6K on XT (haven't advance any further to try Hodir).

My slow Main is "Calamitie's Grasp" and "murder" as OH hand, I do MH Instant and OH deadly poisons.

Any advise for my buid? (djlar, quel'thalas server)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22286075 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:41:58 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22285582 Critsmcgee : I been hearing alot about the armor pen food being really good to use if you have a decent amount of AP. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22285582 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:04:46 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272911 Dropper : Until this patch came out, if you spec'd combat you could use 45 agi flasks and 40 agi stamina food and you wouldn't see one less dps than those spec'd the same and used the more expensive stuff.

Thank god they fixed that. I'd feel guilty every time someone thought they were doing me a favour and handed me a 65g flask in the middle of a raid.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272911 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:17:15 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272791 Critsmcgee : Yea thats pretty badass. Rogues got wild again. I feel like i felt during BC. Now when i pop cooldowns i take control of the meters and rise to the top. Before even when i was doing my rotations perfect i was still 3-5 in dps. Now when i do my rotations perfect im always number 1. Feels nice to be rewarded with knowing how to play.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272791 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:56:01 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272660 anon : My first WWS of 3.1

»wowwebstats.com/k1irislcrvuee

We also got World 14th/EU 5th "Disarmed" achievement.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22272660 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:34:01 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271630 lolwuthenry : I roll with the 180 ap one. always have 10+ on me. and i use the haste pot. the 15 second one. lvl 70 idk how much haste >. but yea i keep atleast 10+ of those on me too. :D

I've also bee wondering if you can find scrolls of agi or something for really cheap i wonder if that would imp dps at all lmao. most likely not but i was just thinking of that the other day hehe.

oooh and for buff food i usually use the ap or crit one. or fish feast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271630 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:28:59 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271620 Sithra : Endless rage and fish feast]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271620 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:27:46 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271583 crytz : So I assume you guys are having flasks and food buffs right? Which ones do you use normally? Besides the obvious flask of endless rage =) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271583 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:22:48 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271574 lolwuthenry :
said by Critsmcgee See Profile :

Yea i have SRx2 so im still rocking mutilate and combat with my KTs reach. If i get better daggers i will stay mut but if i get a new fist then i will go combat HaT. People are talking combat pvp viable too. I seen the spec and it looks promising. 5% parry 5% dodge riposte and alot of survivability with killing spree for burst. Seems like it scould make a comback.
So yea. pvp combat is actually completey viable if you spec correctly.. i actually used this a bit prior to 3.1 it really only works best in 2v2. and some bg situations.

but yea. in 2v2 vs 2 melee players your team will completely faceroll them if you (the rogue) are combat spec atleast 51 points....

also. im currently mutalate but i won the oh fist off flame 10 man. and it is prety ridiclious. but i have to stay combat seeing as i do not own a mh fist >. i stopped doing 10 man naxx. a while back. soo dont even bother with that mh. and io havent been able to win my CG off 25 kt yet.

so yea in case you havent noticed. all "non retarted rogue's should be in top 5 dps as long as they have naxx 10+ gear. i mean im usually #1 dps. with any group i go to. a good friend of mine usually pulls 6k+ in all raids 10-25. its prety insane. we got completely buffed for pve atm. where as im pulling 4k+ in every boss fight. 3k+ without even trying... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271574 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:22:00 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271553 Sithra : Rogue are definitely back on top now. 6k dps on boss encounters, 7k on XT and 7.5k on Hodir, yes please.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271553 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:18:05 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271502 Dropper : All I know is my dps went up between 500-1000 after the patch, depending on whether the fight was tank and spank (patchwerk) or you had to move around a bit (dance revolution).

The changes to combat were all good and finally put the spec somewhere close to mutilate. 10% extra damage just using up the talents points you needed to waste in something like improved sprint or kick in order to get to the next stage in the talent tree? Yes please.

As for poisons, elitist jerks had it mapped out a long time back, and I guess they'll do the same (or maybe have already) for the changes. They do it by spec and by weapon speed usually and I think most people know they're anal enough in their research to guarantee good results.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271502 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:09:55 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271234 Benty : yeap, made me sad. Haste+AP would probably have put combat too far ahead of Mut spec. Or maybe the just stuck the haste part in to LR instead. If the haste was in LR and mace spec that would be pretty crazy with posions on PPM procs]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271234 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:20:24 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271219 crytz : I just realized they were going to change mace spec to be much better then it is now, I wonder why they reverted back to the way it is now? Maybe it was OP?

* Hunger for Blood – instead of a self-buff, this ability can only be used when there is a bleed effect on the target. However, it has no stacks and grants a 15% damage bonus.
* Adrenaline Rush – the cooldown on this ability has been lowered.
* Lightning Reflexes – reduced to 3 ranks. In addition to 2/4/6% dodge, this talent now also grants 4/7/10% passive melee haste.
* Killing Spree – while this ability is active, the rogue does 20% additional damage.
* Savage Combat – now causes 2/4% physical damage done.
* Mace Specialization – this talent now grants haste in addition to armor penetration.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22271219 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:16:48 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22270962 crytz : Yes, those were the days, if only blizz wouldn't have made mace's useless! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22270962 Tue, 21 Apr 2009 07:57:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22268932 Critsmcgee :
said by pr1mo See Profile :

comeback? lol when was combat ever a viable pvp spec...
Maces + Adrenaline Rush = Win

This was the setup that rogues used to run with mainly at the beggining of BC. It was op when maces would stun.

EDIT taken straight for wow wiki level 70 builds:
AR/Prep - 0/31/30 - PvP
This was "THE" build of 2.3. Post-2.3.2 this build is less attractive because AR was removed from Prep. Maces are the key to this build with the added mace stun effect. This was also a solid build before the hemo buff of Patch 2.3, and many used it with SS. If you do choose to move some points and use SS as your primary attack instead of hemo, picking up Blade Twisting for the daze effect would be wise. Improved Kick for the silence is also a nice bonus.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22268932 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:20:36 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22268362 Critsmcgee : Stay mutilate and get mongoose on anarchy. You cant do Sword dagger or hybrid specs with combat any more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22268362 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:37:02 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267970 anon : Thanks! I'll check out Sons of Hodir.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267970 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:35:28 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267371 anon : Really nice information here guys. One question as far as weapons I have Anarchy/WD and Silent Crusader/WD all of which have mongoose except anarchy. To push Max dps would it be better to stay as mutilate which I have been since expansion or switch to combat?

Thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267371 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:00:57 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267346 AthlGrond :
said by pr1mo See Profile :

comeback? lol when was combat ever a viable pvp spec...
Are you kidding? Repost used to be able to disarm people!

;)
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267346 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:54:54 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267269 pr1mo : comeback? lol when was combat ever a viable pvp spec...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267269 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:40:32 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267055 Critsmcgee : Yea i have SRx2 so im still rocking mutilate and combat with my KTs reach. If i get better daggers i will stay mut but if i get a new fist then i will go combat HaT. People are talking combat pvp viable too. I seen the spec and it looks promising. 5% parry 5% dodge riposte and alot of survivability with killing spree for burst. Seems like it scould make a comback.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22267055 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:01:26 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22265110 crytz : Nice write up there Critsmcgee! I use combat/Hat for my spec's, so far I'm loving combat spec, HaT is a little harder to get used to because of the fluctuation of CP's.

Crytz/smolderthorn Horde side if anyone wants to armory me. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22265110 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:20:52 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22264509 Krisnatharok : You all are so freaking boring at nights. pff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22264509 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:38:34 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22264477 Critsmcgee : You should be using Sinister revenge in your MH with instant poison on it and then LPC in your OH with deadly. If you can get a slower dagger though or at least one with better stats. LPC got a huge nerf with the PPM changes to poisons although the procs from focused attacks will be nice. The Sons of Hodir sells alot better dagger than LPC.

EDIT: Also alot better dagger drops in H HoS called The Flesh shaper. Aim for webbed death from Anub Rekan in 25 man naxx also. The best setup minus ulduar daggers is Sinister Revenge for MH and Webbed Death OR a Second sinister revenge for OH. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22264477 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:20:46 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22264270 anon : At the moment the only weapons I have is Sinister revenge and 2 LPCS. I am using Mut raid spec which weapons should I be using and where. Not sure im understanding you on the subject in Assassination Spec 3.1
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22264270 Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:23:17 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22260418 Critsmcgee : --Flame Leviathan 25--

70 million health! @.@

This is the first fight in Ulduar and this boss has to be completed in order to gain access to any of the other bosses. Make sure and throw on your highest level items if you are a vehicle driver. Dont worry about how good the gear is. A few rogues in our guild have some epic cloth peices just for this fight. If you are going to be launched on top of the Leviathan then still keep your normal raid gear on. As a rogue you will most likely driving a chopper, if not then you will be one of the players launched onto the back of the Flame Leviathan to DPS down the Turrets.

Spec Advantages
Spec deep into imp vehicles

A. One phase fight
1. If your are in a vehicle you will most likely be inside of a Salvaged Chopper. Watch your HP drop oil
2. Most likely the rogues will be one of the players launched onto Flame Leviathan.

B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. As a chopper you want to stay out of the flame vents that light the oil.
2. Save your Speed boost for after you drop Tar between Leviathan and one of the tanks.

This is the easiest fight in Ulduar. Once the fight begins you will either be driving a vehicle or a passenger in a vehicle waiting to be launched onto Flame Leviathan. Once you launch you will have to DPS down a Turret and then press the button to stall the Flame Leviathan. Make sure and wait till hes on a patch of Oil/Fire to increase the damage done to him.

--Tips--
When you come off of the flame leviathan make sure to hit the ground moving. You want to get as far away from the action as possible. When your riding shotgun in a Salvaged Demolisher make sure to use your abilities to the fullest. Above all, for a vehicle fight, this is one of the funnest fights there is. There is no pressure, any decent group can down this boss so just turn off your meters and have a good time.

--Emalon the Storm Watcher 25--

11.2 Million hp

This is the new boss in the Vault. The original boss in vault, Archavon, was a huge push over. This boss though is turning out to be a little more difficult. You might want to bring the guild on this one because the average pug is gonna fail. For a rogue though this fight is very simple. With some well timed Cloak Of shadows and proper usage of cooldowns you will come out on top.

Spec Advantage
Combat>Mutilate>HaT

A. One phase fight
1. 1 boss 4 adds, this fight sort of reminds me of grand widow in the sense that is all about timing.

B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Chain lightning, the only way to avoid this is to stay farther away from other melee dps.
2. Lightning nova - This about a 5 second cast and does damage depending on the range away from the boss.

This fight takes a simple concept and adds a pretty shard DPS timer on it. When you start this pull off the tanks will seperate the adds from emalon. Wherever you are DPSing Emalon you need to turn your camera toward the adds and just click both mouse buttons so that you can get a jump on everyone when the adds are about to enrage. By all means do as much damage possible on Emalon but save you cooldowns for the adds. When emalon cast Lightning Nova use your Cloak Of Shadows and you can resist one. When he cast it again you can sprint to get out faster and get back into combat faster. When i said timing is important i mean it. When he enrages one of the adds you have to be paramount to run over and start popping cooldowns to down that add as fast as possible. If you are HaT spec you can get in some extra DPS by getting shadow step. It is completely optional to get, but in mobile fights it can make a difference and the damage increase is not bad either. After he enrages the adds and you kill one, you will go back to normal dps on Emalon until he is dead. I cannot stress how simple of a concept this is and how easy of a fight this is for a rogue. The difference between this fight and the old Vault boss, is huge because you need most everyone alive or your DPS is going to have to be geared to the teeth to survive.

--Tips--
Heres a tip for this fight, CLOAK OF SHADOWS OR RUN OUT OF LIGHTNING NOVA! No but i gave combat spec a significant advantage over both other specs for this fight because of the situational DPS requirement when killing the adds. You want to have Adrenaline Rush + Blade Flurry (to pad the meters on a non-enraged add) to put out some extreme dps during that time. Mutilate however can do well also and HaT here has a chance to do ok. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22260418 Sun, 19 Apr 2009 02:01:34 EDT Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22260409 Critsmcgee : Maximizing Rogue DPS 3.1 pt 2
Razorscale & Constructor

With the added dual spec feature and rogue having the three possible raid specs its important to know what spec to choose for certain fights to do maximum dps. Although i recommend using Combat and Mutilate, HaT performs well for certain fights.

--Razorscale 25--

12.6 million health

Spec Advantage
Combat > HaT = Mutilate

A. Three phase fight
1. Phase one waves of trash
2. Phase 2 is temporary ground phase
3. Phase 3 is the OMGWTFGOGOGOALLOUT!!!

B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Whirlwind from the adds
2. Blue fire on the ground
3. Wing buffet and of course stay away from the front
of razorscale

A couple nights ago my guild did razorscale and although I had to log for work before the downing, i did get in a few good attempts and picked up this fight. Here are some basic tips that I can pass on from a rogues perspective.

For the first part in the first few attempts I threw tricks of the trade on the tank on our side and went to town on the adds. Turns out that the Darkrune Senitals have a whirlwind that hits HARD. Needless to say i was two shotted by the whirlwind and after that i learned to stay back. Second attempt I treated the packs of mobs similar to the ones in the Deathknight wing of Naxx. Evasion did work against the whirl wind and i found that the Dark Rune Watchers did not whirl wind so i picked them off of the off tank one by one. Its important to kick the chain lightning that they cast. Blade flurry was helpful along with tricks of the trade for pumping out some extra numbers. Cloak of shadows was also put to good use to avoid the blue fires that were on the ground. its important to remember to just pace your dps here. This is more about surviving. Staying alive is top priority.

After phase one was over Razorscale drops to the ground and you have some time to lay into him. Immediately when he hits the ground blow your cooldowns and go to work. Make sure and stay behind him cause of the flame breath. Go all out here. After some time on the ground he will fly back up. When hes in the air its the same as before. Avoid the whirlwind adds and stick to interrupting the Watchers.

After razorscale reaches 50% he will drop to the ground for good. This is where rogues really shine. Its good ol' fashion tank and spank here. If your raid blew heroism early then blow your Haste potion here. Some of your cooldowns should be back around by this time. If you have any ability to do more damage this is when you use it. Save sprint for the wing buffet to get back into DPS as fast as possible. Stick to your rotations and you should come out successful.

--Tips--
Although all three specs have potential to do well on this fight, to me Razorscale just screams Combat spec. It has so many elements that benefit combat spec. Killing spree + Blade Flurry on the trash, Adrenaline Rush on the ground phases. The breaks in sustained dps give enough time for your cooldowns to come around more than once so you can go ALL OUT when it counts most. Stick to your rotation and theres no reason that you wont come out on top.

--XT-002 Deconstructor 25--

25 million health o.0

To me this fight seems like a mix between Void Reaver and High Astromancer. This is THE ROGUE FIGHT. I say again if you are a rogue and you arent in at least the top 3 damage at the end of this fight, then you need to read back to page 1 of the guide.

Spec Advantage
HaT > Mutilate = Combat

A. Two phase fight
1. Phase one is just tank and spank the boss, watch
threat and trade tricks with another rogue if you can
2. Phase two is also tank in spank but you will target
the bosses Heart as he squats down. Pop cooldowns or
speed potions here.


B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Gravity Bomb - This is the part thats is like
Astromancer, RUN OUT! Stop what your doing and book
it to a safe area then drop the bomb and go back in.
2. Light Bomb - When this is cast on you RUN! Get as far
away as you can and then resume dps with the debuff
drops away.

This is the big tank and spank fight of ulduar with a twist. Phase one is simple, your tank will tank him at the bottom of the stairs. Open up and save your cooldowns for phase 2. Every once in awhile he will do a ground pound that does AoE damage. Stay in and the healers will take care of you for this. Every 25% of health the boss will enter phase 2.

During phase 2 he will expose his heart. DPS should go all out during this part unless the raid leader doesnt want to engage hardmode and tells you to slow down dps. Otherwise, blow cooldowns and go to work on the heart.

--Tips--
You can use Cloak of shadows on the two debuffs. When cloak of shadows is on cooldown then your going to want to use sprint to get aways as fast as possible. Make sure not to go out of range of your healers. I think HaT spec is the highest dps on this fight. Although a good HaT rogue can throw up some massive numbers, both of the other specs can do just fine. As a rogue there is no reason that you wont be top 3 DPS here with any spec.

Stay tuned for more guides and ill try to get some video if i get the chance to stick around for the downing of a boss for once.
--
»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22260409 Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:56:26 EDT Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22256612 Critsmcgee : Here is a little something i thought i would post about my theory's on maximizing dps for some rogues that feel that they are a little low. Most of this has been read on other sites but its still good to see all the answers in one place. If your dps is doing fine then this is not for you, most of this is common knowledge.

--Choosing weapons and poisons--

Assassination Spec 3.1
For Assas spec you want to have instant on your MH weapon and Deadly on your OH. With the changes to PPM (Procs per minute) you will now want a slow dagger in your MH slot for max mutilate damage. For your OH its debatable right now. If you have Sinister Revenge x2 then you can use both of them. If you have Sinister revenge and webbed death or any other dagger faster than 1.5 speed then you want to use your best dagger. The reason it is sinister revenge is equal to webbed death for OH mutilate at he moment is because of the overall mutilate damage VS focused attacks procs. Stacking deadly poison doesn't seem like an issue with Master poisoner.

Combat spec/Hat
For combat spec you want wound poison on your slow MH weapon. The same as before and same as always you want the slowest MH weapon possible. For you OH weapon you want something fast. Webbed death is optimal for someone heading into Ulduar. The OH poison should be deadly for the savage combat debuff. For combat spec your going to want fist in your MH though. Fist weapons have proven slightly better than swords or maces for combat. Maybe Ulduar will release a badass MH sword and change this though. For HaT setup it is the same except a fast OH weapon is not really required. dont want to go SLOW/SLOW but 1.8 speed is allowed because you aren't worrying about and energy regen from OH weapon procs. Fist weapons are paramount for HaT though.

--Armor Choices for entering Ulduar--

If you've been through Naxx more than a few times like the majority of players have, then you are most likely reaching a lot of BiS (best in slot) armor. The same as 3.09 your going to want to be expertise capped (26/26) on your statistic screen OR 114 with 2/2 expertise in the combat tree and 214 without weapon expertise. After expertise you want to still keep the same hit caps. As combat you should aim for 314-315 hit rating and as mutilate around 237. After you've reached the proper caps then stack attack power. Attack power is more important than Agility still even more because deadly poison now receives a 12% buff from your AP. This is why berserking>mongoose always also. Trinket choices are as follows. For combat with all other BiS 3.09 items Darkmoon Card greatness and Grim Toll are your best options. Grim toll soley because it keeps you at the hit cap. If you are missing some BiS items and still have a few pieces with hit rating on them then Fury of the Five flights is BiS for you. For mutilate its Fury and Greatness. Hat it is Fury and greatness also. I cannot stress how important it is to hold on to your 4 set bonus as long as possible. The bonus is so great is out weighs breaking it with any Ulduar tier pieces until you have a 2-set bonus. Even then it is arguably better to hold onto your 4 set until you have more and more Ulduar gear.

--Rotations--

Assassination or mutilate 3.1
Your going to want to start off with garotte if you can. Opening from stealth is important because of overkill. Immediately after garrote set up Hunger for blood and then Slice in Dice with your single combo point. After setting SnD precede to Mutilate to 4-5 combo points and set up rupture and then mutilate again to 5 combo points and evenom your SnD to full. Envenom when ever your HFB is over 4 seconds and your rupture has enough time left. Rotation prioritys are Hunger, SnD, and then Rupture. Even though your hunger is 1 min it is paramount to keep it up at all times. The damage increase is just too much. Also for heading from trash pull to trash you can refresh hunger at the last minute to keep it flowing in between pulls.

Combat 3.1
For combat spec your going to want to open as fast as possible. Garrote is nice but if it is slowing you down opening from stealth isnt nearly as important for combat spec. Once you charge in immediately sinister strike and with 2 combo points setup SnD and then Sinister strike to 5 points and setup rupture. After this just continue to keep up rupture and slice n dice. SnD has priority and Eviscerate when you can. For multiple mobs you want to time Killing spree with Blade Flurry. Make sure that you trick of the trade before letting off Killing spree or Blade Flurry. Save Adrenaline rush for those cluth moments when you need the most out of your DPS.

Honor Amongst Thieves (HaT) 3.1
This rotation is really different from the other two because there isn't really a set in stone setup. Open with premed and start of with one hemo and then setup SnD. After SnD i rolling Hemo and get 5 combo points and set rupture. Weave rupture and SnD in with evis spamming if you are feeling combo point starved feel free to hemo. You want to get the most out of the combo points so always drop 5 point eviscerates if you have the chance. Priority is Slice in dice and then rupture. Vanishing during combat not only resets your aggro but it gives you the damage buff for 6 seconds and allows you to throw on a garrote. I recommend this.

For all rogue dps on sustained fights tricks of the trade is your best friend. If there is more and one rogue in the group i recommend setting up a ToTT rotation and have other rogues use the buff on your ever time its up and you in turn use it on another rogue. If threat becomes an issue though just keep it on the tank. Living is always first priority.

--Glyphs Specs Etc.--

Assassination spec 3.1
This spec has stayed pretty much the same. The only change is using Master Poisoner over Turn the tables. For glyphs your going to want Hunger for Blood, Mutilate, and Rupture.

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0···ion=9767

Combat spec 3.1
Huge improvements came for combat spec in 3.1. Hybrid Fist/Sword, Mace/Sword specs are no longer viable. You want two of the same weapons in hand. The spec has gotten a lot tighter with the added haste to Elusiveness. You HAVE to get the three points in elusiveness and this leaves only one extra combo point to play around with. I recommend getting either Throwing spec or Endurance. Either choice is your preference and it doesn't affect your overall dps. Also for now the best dps spec is dropping three points in Ruthlessness and putting those into imp poisons because of the high proc chance of wound from your slow MH weapon and the damage from DP being increased. For Glyphs your going to want, Sinister Strike, Killing Spree, and Rupture or SnD if your newer to the rotation its your choice.

18/51/2

»talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=0···ion=9767

HaT 3.1
Hat spec has stayed exactly the same from 3.09 and it is still the best single target rogue dps. Although it depends heavy on group make-up this is a good off spec for any rogue with a slow MH fist weapon. HaT spec is going to want to glyph Eviscerate, Rupture, and Slice and Dice.

»www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhfZ0gc0···VzAc:kuf

Trash DPS for those who care
As far as maximizing you overall damage your gonna want the slowest weapons possible in both hands for fan of knives damage, tricks of the trade is paramount. I recommend getting the macro for ToTT on your Target, Focus, or Target of target in case you forget to focus the main tank before trash it will save your life. For daggers Sinister Revenge x2 and for those without daggers you want slow fist weapons in both hands. There is an easy weapon switch macro that allows you to put on two slow weapons for trash pulls. Remember though, switching weapons resets your global cool down so i do not recommend doing it in the middle of constant damage. If there is a boss that has downtime to run to another set of adds though, by all means switch weapons but remember to switch back afterwards. Instant poison for mutilate or Wound poison for combat should be applied to both hands if you are using a second set of weapons. Combat spec can maximize damage with killing spree and blade flurry. If you want to MAX dps on trash then use your second spec with glyph of fan of knives and for mutilate blow cold blooded at the point when there are the maximum amount of mobs on screen. The importance of trash dps is debatable but for some raid groups it is very important and in Ulduar i recommend bringing your "A" game for all encounters, boss and mob alike.

ToTT Macro for your focus target
/cast [target=focus,help] Tricks of the Trade

Weapon switch macro
/equipslot 17 [Insert weapon name here]

Reverse this to your usual weapon and make another button to switch back

Final Thoughts, last tips, etc..
Using potions of speed and flask is highly recommended. Timing potions is very important. Save if for when you need to really do the most DPS. For bosses with damage modifiers (Malygos). Save it for the time when you are going to do the most damage. For food you can short yourself a few points on a stat and then make it up with a food buff. Although i recommend getting all caps through gear in case you die and have to be battle rezzed, its still an option though. I cannot stress the importance of Tricks of the trade. In my opinion its the best level 80 ability added to rogues in WotLK. Saving ToTT for when your about to do the most damage on un-aggroed mobs will keep you alive and in turn give you the most out of your dps. Cloak of the shadows through shit on the ground and vanish if you pull threat. If vanish is down then evasion tank if you have to. Never and i mean NEVER depend on evasion though. Ive been caught with my pants down more and enough times to know that evasion is busted when it comes to bosses and high level mobs. A boss will tear off your arms and beat you to death with them in front of your closest friends and family. So far all three specs offer different situational things for DPS. HaT for single target dps, combat for dynamic motion and fights that have multiple mobs at one time, and assassination for high single target dps and insane trash dps. In the end choose what ever spec you like to play. Rogues are one of the few classes that have been blessed with three very viable PvE specs. Whether your wielding daggers, fist, or even swords, GO OUT THERE AND TOP SOME METERS!
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»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22256612 Sat, 18 Apr 2009 02:43:36 EDT