AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
 ·Comcast
| reply to djlar
Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1
said by djlar  :Being the only rogue in the guild I sacrificed 2 pts on Throwing spec to interrupt the casters 100% with Fan of Knives. I think I misplaced a point there but I was getting 100 interrupts a fight with razorscale (30% to lighting chain). I've had a question on that talent: Does it interrupt all casters hit, or just your target?
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I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee! |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| reply to djlar
Berserking is the best enchant for weapons if you can afford it. Only get berserking on something good though. You can have alot less hit. Try going at about 350 if you have that much to throw around. You can get ALOT more ap and you will hit like a truck, your DP, and WP will tick harder too. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
2 edits | reply to AthlGrond
All casters hit. Its another reason that pvp combat will own face against casters.
This would prolly be a decent pvp combat build
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···9;58033;
Or something like this
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···9;58033; |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| reply to Critsmcgee
--Ignis the furnace master 25--
19.6 Million Health
Spec Advantage
HaT>Mutilate>Combat
A. One phase fight
1. Reminds me of Grobbulous, high motion fight
B. As a rogue abilities to watch out for
1. Slag pot - deals 5000 dps on you over 10 seconds while in the slag pot
2. Flame Jets - massive AoE damage
Ignis, oh ignis. This guy is an interesting fight for healers. For rogues he is rather lackluster though. He reminds me of Grobb. The main thing i can say about ignis is that you want to stay behind him at all times. The tank will keep him moving because of the scorched earth he will leave behind.
At the start of this fight the tank will pull him and usually do some sort of small oval or square kiting path to keep from standing in the scorched earth. Every once in awhile he will stomp the ground and do flame jets that toss everyone into the air and do a lot of AoE damage to the raid. As tempting as it is to let off Cloak of shadows here, if you are surviving the flame jets then save cloak of shadows. Just like grobbs injection he will target one player at a time and put him in his Slag pot. During this time that player will take 5000dps for 10 seconds. As a rogue as soon as you enter slag pot let off cloak of shadows. This will save you from taking too much damage and yor healers should have no problem healing you for the last 4 seconds of it.
Like grobb this fight depends heavy on placement. If you are in front of ignis at the wrong time then there is a good chance you will get roasted to a crisp. STAY BEHIND IGNIS!! If you are staying behind and keeping your timing up on him then dps is pretty standard. Stick to your rotation because there is nothing to this fight but surviving.
--Tips--
If you find yourself in the slag pot and your cloak of shadows is on cooldown then when you get out (if you survive) you will have the haste buff for 10 seconds. If you pop a haste pot during this time then you will do a massive amount of damage over those 10 seconds. If youve already popped your haste pot then just dps as normal and enjoy the damage.
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»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/ |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | reply to Sithra
You've neglected to mention Feint on both the XT and Ignis fights.
We're 10 bosses down now, Thorim really slowed us down! |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| I guess i did fail to mention that. Since Ulduar came out ive had such bad lag out here. I usually get on at raid time. Get into ulduar for 3-4 attempts then start lagging out so bad that i opt to sit out and hear the downing over vent. After last night im starting a break. Its pretty sad to flock to the internet place every night eith no hopes of your connection holding through the first 4 attempts. Im gonna try to level my running back up until i come back from this deploy. |
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djlar
join:2009-04-23
799228
| reply to AthlGrond
Interrupt with FoK interrupts any interruptable target withing range, tested it out on Kel'Thuzad and it works there, tried heroic nexus, it works on the caster boss split clones wonderfully..
BTW I was #1 DPS on:
25 men
Pathcwerk
Grobbulus
Gluth
Thaddious
Sapphiron
Kel'Thuzad
OS 25
Malygos 25 (I had to use every measure to drop aggro!)
I was on the 5.5K and above mark, and at least 1.5% better than the closest Deeps, this time was an uber geared mage.
DK's have dropped DPS consideraly now poor souls got the nerf bat, they were usually on top.
Still I am not noticing any DPS increase in improved Rupture Vs. Improved Eviscerate |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| I gotta look into imp evis VS rupture. Im thinking that the 4 set bonus for t8 is what really helps rupture damage be on top. You might be on to something though with using Evis atm. Even when an evis doesnt crit it can still do 5-6k damage. Ive had some freak o.0 crits too. No to mention sometimes i drop a rupture on a target that dies before the full ticks expire and i guess that could be considered a considerable loss of damage. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
3 edits | reply to Critsmcgee
512 hit sounds like some insane attempt to cap white damage. Don't, you'll never reach over 700 hit. The poison hit cap of 315 is good enough. There's no down side to having more, as long as it's not at the expense of anything else, but you can get rid of as many 16 hit gems as you want and replace them with 8 agi / 8 crit or 16 ap / 8 crit. There's no real difference, just get whatever is the cheaper of the two.
Berserking as Crit said is by far the best enchant for rogues. When you get a set of weapons you can't envisage changing for a few months, save up abyss crystals and get berserking for both. Until then you can make do with mongoose (if your enchanter still has the mats) or even potency (50 ap) while you save up your pennies.
The 15/51/5 and 18/51/2 are almost indistinguishable from each other, I've tried both. I go with the second because I can't be bothered to spend another 50g on yet one more respec.
Glyphs. Rupture, S&D and Sin Strike are the best. If you can't find a Rupture (seems to be difficult to get on some servers for some reason) grab an extra 5s of Adrenaline Rush. Not as good but it will do until you can get the rupture glyph. Eviscerate is only for times when you've hit 5 combo pts, already have your rupture applied and you still have at least 12s of S&D. Otherwise you re-apply S&D.
Exercise in Fail
Friend of mine spent 1000g on dual spec, set it up with Combat and Mutilate to see which was better. I was forced to remind him that as his fist weapon was mainhand only.
The bad part is he'd put the berserking enchant on both his weapons. He could have dropped the fist weapon for another dagger but now needs to save up for a 3rd berserking enchant to do it. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| As mutilate ive been looking at a ruptureless spec without deadly poisons. I was looking at stacking armor pen, taking glyph of evis and then going instant, instant, with two slow daggers and relying on armor pen for high white damage. Its prolly garbage but still armor pen has been getting alot more desirable these days. |
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djlar
join:2009-04-23
799228 | reply to Critsmcgee
I'm only finding rupture useful on bosses that move a lot, like Grobbulus, Heigan, Malygos, etc.. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
1 edit | reply to Critsmcgee
Rupture is the second most important finishing move after slice n dice.
There's a reason why it doesn't crit unless you have a 4-set bonus T8 (and therefore fighting the toughest bosses in the game) and that's because it would be op if it did.
The thing is it scales with AP, which is why it's so important to have things like the Darkmoon Card Greatness (equiv to 190 AP during fights) and berserking on at least one weapon.
Elistist jerks are the people who do the math. They are anal beyond belief and that means their website is where you go to get real information.
If they say you should use slice n dice / rupture with eviscerates when your slice n dice timer has 10s or more, then that's what you should do to maximise your dps.
Their numbers are worked using best in slot gear. That doesn't mean you HAVE to own that gear, it means you should use that gear as a guide. If they have a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating, you get a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating - even if it's a blue while you wait for a decent drop.
If they say use two fast daggers for mutilate they mean use two fast daggers even if your offhand is a blue because of it (they actually say this, that the weapon speed for the mainhand/offhand is more important than stats on the weapon or epic vs rare).
When they say use a slow fist weapon or sword in your MH and a fast dagger in your OH for combat then that's what you should do.
This is simply about getting the most DPS you can out of a spec. If that's not a major concern for you, then you do as you like and enjoy the game in the way you prefer to. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| I agree with most of the stuff off of EG. Still i take caution to some of the user post. People also fail to believe that EG math is done on a controlled scale. People look at EG and shadowpanther as absolutes. Overall dps on a patchwerk style fight, yes. Other fights have alot more variables and you have to take that into account before you just look at a spreadsheet.
For instance i said something about using mark of the norgannon or a "use" trinket for certain fights as mutilate is good and every bashed it because they all looked at their spread sheets. Mutilate is the cooldownless spec, so throwing a CD trinket on for fights like Razorscale is good imo. Half of the fight is trash dps and the only part of the fight where you really are gonna get in some DPS is during the ground phases. This is when i think on use trinkets gain alot more value.
To sum up what im trying to say, you have to take EG and shadowpanther as tools to help you use your own common sense to choose the best gear. There is nothing out there to tell you exactly how to play your character in every situation. |
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mingu
@sdsu.edu | reply to Critsmcgee
heard for combat that you were to use do on main hand and so on off if your offhand was 1.3 speed or faster like librarians cutter. Heard this from elitist jerks. Is this true? |
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mingu
@sdsu.edu | reply to Critsmcgee
meant deadly for mh and wound for offhand |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
1 edit | Why would you want wound poison on your fast OH? Did you read about the PPM change to poisons? A slow weapon will proc poisons about the same speed as a fast weapon now, BUT poisons will only proc off of MH finishers: like rupture, and eviscerate. I dont see a reason you would want wound poisons on our OH weapon for combat spec. |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
4 edits | reply to Critsmcgee
Before the 3.1 patch there was a guide to which poison to put on which weapon, depending on your offhand weapon speed.
This only applied to combat spec'd rogues. If your weapon speed (as shown on the character page after haste improvements) was 1.4 or less you used it one way, if it was slower than 1.4 you did the opposite.
But that is irrelevant now as poison's chance to hit has changed. It is now always deadly on offhand, wound poison on mainhand. Your chance to poison increases with the speed of your weapon, therefore you want deadly on your fastest weapon.
I actually use instant poison on my mainhand because I don't follow these things precisely. I just seem to get more out of instant poison than I do from wound poison. Maybe it's because I'm not as good as other players, I don't really care.
And yes, the bit about the Libarian Cutter was true. It was because the faster weapon meant more hits and therefore more poison procs. What I don't know is if this thinking is still correct, but as it's a fast offhand weapon it does still make this an ideal offhand until you get something like Anarchy or better. |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| said by Dropper :And yes, the bit about the Libarian Cutter was true. It was because the faster weapon meant more hits and therefore more poison procs. What I don't know is if this thinking is still correct, but as it's a fast offhand weapon it does still make this an ideal offhand until you get something like Anarchy or better. The fast off-hand is to get Combat Potency procs (and still is). That you got more poison applications is a side effect.
Only wound and instant poisons are weapon speed independent, the others haven't changed. (Unless they were changed outside of the announced changes.)
said by 3.1 patch notes :
•Deadly Poison: The amount of damage this poison generates from the rogue’s attack power has been increased from 8% per application to 12%.
•Instant Poison: Redesigned to have its chance to be applied based on the speed of the weapon (frequency-based).
•Wound Poison: Redesigned to have its chance to be applied based on the speed of the weapon (frequency-based).
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I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee! |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07
| reply to Dropper
said by Dropper :If they have a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating, you get a leg piece with agility, stam and hit rating - even if it's a blue while you wait for a decent drop. That's not true. It doesn't matter which item the stats on, as long as the balance between the stats is correct.
EG is Elitist Gerks I presume? |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| Yea BiS or Best in Slot gear is debatable for every person. There is always a full optimal set for THE MOST dps, but most people wont get that out of ulduar with the defficulty of the hard modes. At least not for some time at least. If you are under the hit cap them something like grim toll will be BiS for you. |
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