Smithson
join:2009-03-05
08215-2539
| [speed/latency] My Verizon DSL connection is throttled (?)
I will first issue a disclaimer. I am not accusing Verizon of anything, I am simply relating my personal experience with my Verizon DSL connection.
Whether it is due to an intentional, artificial process, or some other factor, my maximum Verizon broadband connexion download speed is capped at 200 kbps. It doesn't matter what, from where, or when I am downloading, I have a maximum 200 kbps download speed.
I'll get a few issues out of the way:
1. I do not anticipate anywhere near the advertised download speeds. All Internet providers are blatantly dishonest about what they will and can deliver in the way of speed. That's a given.
2. I am connecting a single computer directly to the Internet through a Westell 6100 modem. No wireless routers or networks.
3. I have used several different PCs and Laptops on this connexion and always achieve the same result. A 200 kbps download cap.
4. I am not a techy, but hardly a computer illiterate. My systems are all less than 6 months old, and tweaked to peak efficiency. I even clear my old prefetch and browsing history data daily. I have tried computers on the internet connexion in question with both XP and Vista operating systems. Always the same result.
5. When running speed tests with Verizon's own on-line speed testing tool I am told I have 1.5 Mbps download speed. I get a similar result using DSL reports own speed test. However, if I run the test whilst concurrently downloading, the test results change dramatically. The results of my download test speeds drop precipitously and in direct proportion to my current download's rate of data transfer. If I am downloading a file at 50 kbps, then the test results show a 700 kbps download speed. If I am downloading at my 'max' 170 to 200 kbps rate, then the speed test shows a download speed of 300 kbps! My modem also reports a 1.7 mbps transfer rate, so the problem does not lie with my modem. And my download speeds do not improve when I turn off my firewall and Anti-Virus. (Avast)
Now, am I wrong to assume something or someone is throttling my bandwidth? Limiting me to a maximum 200 kbps? Or am I missing something here?
If I try to browse the Internet whilst concurrently downloading at my max 170-200 kbps transfer rate, the pages won't even load. My internet connexion simply doesn't have any resources once I have taxed that 200 kbps cap.
I contacted Verizon on-line and spoke at some length with a technician after working my way through the myriad of overseas customer service personnel. The tech ran a line test, and asserted my connexion was working fine, and at a 1.7 kbps rate of transfer. Rubbish! FIOS is not available in my area of South Jersey, but Verizon advertises several tiers of Broadband speed. I decided I would upgrade to their best package and see if there was any improvement in my rate of transfer. The tech told me he'd connect me to someone who could help me order the upgrade. The same tech came back on the line and informed me a colleague had told him I already have the best package available for my area. Best package available? 1.5 kbps?
This makes me suspicious that my neighbourhood's data pipe/node is highly congested and that the infrastructure is over-extended, and thus Verizon is micromanaging our area's data transfer speeds. I have no doubt my connexion is being throttled at 200 kbps.
If this were the case, how can I prove it? Because if Verizon is artificially limiting my download speed to 200 kbps max, then I have a legitimate grievance. None of us expect the advertised (up-to) speeds, but if my absolute max is set at 200 kbps? Why should I be paying 40 dollars per month for a broadband package which suggests speeds somewhat beyond dial-up?
If someone cannot provide an innocent explanation for this phenomenon, Verizon and their entire customer base will be hearing about my experience. I am not a passive consumer.
Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated. I ran a DSL Reports line test. Here: »/linequality/7···/2496715 |
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Tollhouse
join:2008-07-15
Wallback, WV
| you are getting what you are paying for. You are making a mistake many of us have made (hell, i've made the same mistakes and i've done tech support for various isp's for 3+ years).
you are mixing up Bytes with Bits. You have a 1.5MegaBIT connection and are downloading at 200kyloBYTES.
In all actuality, you are getting MORE than you are paying for. You should be getting about 155-166kbps on your downloads and you are getting 200.
Enjoy! |
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Smithson
join:2009-03-05
08215-2539
3 edits | @Tollhouse. Enlightening. I probably should have figured that out. I just called Verizon. Indeed it appears I already have their maximum download package. 200 kbps? Are they kidding? Unless I sell the house and move into my area's FIOS zone, I must sadly resign myself to these semi-Dial-up rates of transfer.
And...Shouldn't the Verizon tech have pointed out that 200 kbps 'was' equivalent to 1.5 Mbps when I initially called about this issue?
Cheers! Mate. |
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JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA |
Speeds are measured in bits, but a bit is useless, in and of itself. A Byte contains 8 bits, and are the useful measurement in anything you've downloaded. Yes, using bits for speeds makes it a larger, more impressive, number. |
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Smithson
join:2009-03-05
08215-2539
1 edit | @JohnA - My speed test stats report between 1.5 and 1.7 Mbps.
1 byte = 8 bits. I get an average 180 kbps download, but let's say for simplicity sake I get a 'round' 200. 8 x 200 = 1600 (1.6 Mbps) Thanks to both you and Tollhouse for helping me see the forest for the trees. I am disappointed, but at least satisfied to know everything is as it should be. Thanks to DSL reports as well for this helpful service.
Cheers!
Smithson |
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JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA |
When you look at your downloads, Capital B is Byte, small b is bit. |
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Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
 ·Dish Network
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communica..
1 edit | reply to Smithson
As explained above, it's just a confusion between bite and bytes. If you know how many bytes make up a kilobyte, same with how many bits make up a kilobit (about 1024 if you want to be rough), 8 kilobits equals a Kilobyte, and 1024 kilobits equals a Megabit. 1024 Kilbytes equals a Megabyte.
At optimal conditions, you should pull the following speeds in KiloBYTES (KB/s) sustained on a Verizon Provisioned line.
768kbps package (old!)
90.6KB/s Download
17KB/s Upload
1Mbps/384Kbps Package
128KB/s Download
49KB/s Upload
1.5Mbps/384kbps speed (is the reduced version of the 3Mbps package, can also be a very old package if long term customer)
188KB/s Download
49KB/s Upload
3Mbps/768kbps package
370KB/s Download
90.7KB/s Upload
5Mbps/768kbps package (reduced 7.1Mbps package)
630KB/s Download
90.7KB/s Upload
7.1Mbps/768kbps Package
890KB/s Download
90.7KB/s Upload |
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Smithson
join:2009-03-05
08215-2539
1 edit | @Smith6612
1.5Mbps/384kbps speed (is the reduced version of the 3Mbps package, can also be a very old package if long term customer)
188KB/s Download
49KB/s Upload
This is my current speed. I have been told by several Verizon technicians that this is the Max speed available for my area. Although I think this is rather sad commentary on the state of our US communications infrastructure and the greed and irresponsibility of the Cable and Telcom industry, I accept my plight.
However, if 1.5 Mbps (280 Kbps) is the max speed Verizon can provide me, then why am I paying the same price as my brother 5 miles down the road who receives 3 Mbps? I feel like I am paying for something I am not getting and being cheated. Verizon needs to adjust its rates for it's customers located in poorly serviced areas. i.e. areas where the data pipe/node is overly congested due to Verizon's disinterest in upgrading its infrastructure. But why should they have any interest when they can charge me the same price for 180 kbps as someone who receives twice that.
I did manage to get my bill lowered a little after I discovered Verizon On-line had added an unauthorised service to my account: The Broadband security package. Something I did not order and that no broadband user with an anti-virus programme and a firewall on their system needs.
I guess I'll have to sell my house and move two towns over to enjoy the blessings of FIOS...lol
I would rely on Internet cafés before resorting to ConCast.
Thanks for all the input. I should have realised the bit/Byte issue, but we all have those...Duhhh! moments in life. Even ordinarily clever chaps can, on occasion, be manipulated by deceptive corporate marketing tactics.
Smithson.
Cheers! |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Smithson  :This is my current speed. I have been told by several Verizon technicians that this is the Max speed available for my area. Although I think this is rather sad commentary on the state of our US communications infrastructure and the greed and irresponsibility of the Cable and Telcom industry, I accept my plight. However, if 1.5 Mbps (280 Kbps) is the max speed Verizon can provide me, then why am I paying the same price as my brother 5 miles down the road who receives 3 Mbps? I feel like I am paying for something I am not getting and being cheated. Verizon needs to adjust its rates for it's customers located in poorly serviced areas. i.e. areas where the data pipe/node is overly congested due to Verizon's disinterest in upgrading its infrastructure. But why should they have any interest when they can charge me the same price for 180 kbps as someone who receives twice that. That's what you agreed to when you signed up for the service. And if you think it's because you are located in a poorly serviced area and it's from congestion, you really don't know anything about how DSL works. It's distance limited, and by agreeing to the TOS (it's covered this for at least the 5 years I've had service) for the "up to 3mb" service, you agree that because it's distance limited, those speeds are not guaranteed and may result in a lower provisioned speed. |
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Smithson
join:2009-03-05
08215-2539
| That's what you agreed to when you signed up for the service. And if you think it's because you are located in a poorly serviced area and it's from congestion, you really don't know anything about how DSL works. It's distance limited, and by agreeing to the TOS (it's covered this for at least the 5 years I've had service) for the "up to 3mb" service, you agree that because it's distance limited, those speeds are not guaranteed and may result in a lower provisioned speed.
If you want Internet service in my area, you really have no other option but to blindly accept the 'terms of service' because the American telecommunications industry is a monopoly. I have three choices: 1. Accept Verizon's terms. 2. Accept Concast's even worse terms. Or 3. get Dial-up - which is virtually useless. Do you think the customer service rep. reads you the fine print over the phone when you open an account? The standard terms of service contract basically says we (the corporation) will do whatever we want, but we'll try not to be too blatantly unreasonable in order to keep the payments coming in.
DSL is distance related? What does that mean? Please enlighten me. I am always eager to become less ignorant. Distance in relation to what? My brother, who also has Verizon DSL, lives 5 miles from me. He can send information to me at 400+ kbps, and I can send information to him at less than half that rate. Our respective computers are equidistant apart, so if the discrepancy in our download speeds has nothing to do with Verizon's hardware or infrastructure, why are my neighbourhood's max DSL download speeds capped at 180 kbps? I am not getting 'up to' anything. I am artificially throttled at 180 kbps max because the data pipe in my neighbourhood simply cannot handle the transfer rates a higher bandwidth allowance would create. I do not live on top of the Himalayas. My house is just as close to the main highway and utility poles as my brother's. Verizon has told me: 1.5 mbps is the 'only' package available in my area. I am not a Microsoft certified computer specialist or Geek Squader, but I'm not completely stupid either. The datapipe in my area is obviously over-congested, and our bandwidth is being micromanaged.
I have a Max 1.5 mbps download package, the only package available to me. My brother has a 3 mbps package (and he really does get those download speeds) and we're both paying the same price. That was my complaint.
I await further corporate mumbo jumbo.
Smithson. |
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JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA
| said by Smithson :DSL is distance related? What does that mean? Please enlighten me. I am always eager to become less ignorant. Distance in relation to what? Distance in relation to your CO (central office, where your line comes from, and the DSLAMs your internet service is connected to reside). The length of your wire has resistance to the electrical pulses traveling on it. That creates attenuation of the signal. The farther it is, the more attenuation (signal loss). The margins in your stats are actually a ratio of the signal/noise on the line at the modem. As the signal shrinks in relation to the noise the margins lower. Numerically 10 is a decent margin, but at @6 you will experience problems/disconnects.
You can pull the transceiver stats, and post them if you want and someone will look at them. Post your brother's too if you have them. The differences should be obvious. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Smithson
said by Smithson :If you want Internet service in my area, you really have no other option but to blindly accept the 'terms of service' because the American telecommunications industry is a monopoly. I have three choices: 1. Accept Verizon's terms. 2. Accept Concast's even worse terms. Or 3. get Dial-up - which is virtually useless. The same as the rest of us. That you entered into it blindly without reading the fine print is your fault, no one elses. Take some responsibility for your own inactions in not reading any further.
said by Smithson :Do you think the customer service rep. reads you the fine print over the phone when you open an account? Did you ask them to? Did you do any research into what you signed on to? Did you go to the website and read the TOS for yourself while you still had 30 days to cancel service if you were unhappy with it?
said by Smithson : The standard terms of service contract basically says we (the corporation) will do whatever we want, but we'll try not to be too blatantly unreasonable in order to keep the payments coming in. Again, it was your choice to accept it or not. If you were that unhappy with the terms, then you didn't have to agree with them. But of course, you never really read them now, did you?
said by Smithson :DSL is distance related? What does that mean? Please enlighten me. I am always eager to become less ignorant. Distance in relation to what? My brother, who also has Verizon DSL, lives 5 miles from me. He can send information to me at 400+ kbps, and I can send information to him at less than half that rate. Our respective computers are equidistant apart, so if the discrepancy in our download speeds has nothing to do with Verizon's hardware or infrastructure, why are my neighbourhood's max DSL download speeds capped at 180 kbps? I am not getting 'up to' anything. I am artificially throttled at 180 kbps max because the data pipe in my neighbourhood simply cannot handle the transfer rates a higher bandwidth allowance would create. I do not live on top of the Himalayas. My house is just as close to the main highway and utility poles as my brother's. Verizon has told me: 1.5 mbps is the 'only' package available in my area. I am not a Microsoft certified computer specialist or Geek Squader, but I'm not completely stupid either. The datapipe in my area is obviously over-congested, and our bandwidth is being micromanaged. You may not be completely stupid, but you have ZERO clue as to how DSL works. Not just Verizon DSL, ANY DSL. There is no over-congestion (not that it isn't possible; but far more likely with cable) or micromanagement of speed.
said by Smithson :I have a Max 1.5 mbps download package, the only package available to me. My brother has a 3 mbps package (and he really does get those download speeds) and we're both paying the same price. That was my complaint. Answered at least 3 times above.
said by Smithson :I await further corporate mumbo jumbo. Nothing corporate about it. Just some plain old consumer due diligence. |
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Smithson
join:2009-03-05
08215-2539
| SMITHSON:"I have a Max 1.5 mbps download package, the only package available to me. My brother has a 3 mbps package (and he really does get those download speeds) and we're both paying the same price. That was my complaint."
"Answered at least 3 times above."
So your answer is that: Verizon can do whatever they want and if I don't like it I have the option to go without an Internet connexion? That would be sound advice if I as a consumer had any viable options. It's Verizon, Concast, or Dial-Up. 'In my opinion' Concast is the greediest company on the planet, and I refuse to deal with them. Dial-Up isn't a viable option in the 21st century. So it's Verizon or nothing. There is a communications monopoly in this country. Fact. Companies such as Concast and Verizon have not kept up with the pace of Internet technology as have such countries as Japan and Denmark, and that is also a fact. The American communications infrastructure is outdated and inadequate to meet the needs of our contemporary digital world. Your self-satisfied hyperbole and dismissive tone do nothing to discredit my assertions, which are common knowledge to anyone who doesn't listen to Verizon's marketing waffle or have a stake in defending it.
As for the pricing issue: Basically you are suggesting that if I go to the produce market and the guy in line ahead of me is charged 1.00 per pound for Iceberg lettuce (there is not a special sale), but I am charged 1.00 per half pound of the same exact lettuce, I should either accept the discrepancy without complaint or go to another produce outlet?
And I understand exactly how DSl works. A data-pipe can't be congested or a node doesn't have a max capacity? Are you kidding me?
Cheers!
Smithson. |
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Smithson
join:2009-03-05
08215-2539
| reply to JohnA
@JohnA
Thank you for the informative and well considered reply. My resentment is related to the fact that Verizon can only provide a 1.5 mbps package for my area, but is charging me the same rate as my brother who Verizon can provide with a 3 mbps package. My brother and I live 5 miles apart. Am I wrong to suggest Verizon should perhaps standardise it's pricing structure? I'm not talking about the bait and switch set period promotional 'bargain' rates. But the every day rates. I pay roughly 40 dollars for 180 kbps max transfer, my brother pays the same for double that.
As for the distance issue?: I can download at my max rate of 180 kbps whether the uploading server is located in the UK, Australia or across the street, so I am still not sure how the information you have provided relates to why my neighbourhood's data transfer rate is capped at a precise 180 kbps. Another poster is suggesting this cap is not a result of Verizon's artificially shaping the traffic in my area or managing our data transfer rates. Really? Hmmm...
Best regards,
Smithson. |
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Eldega
join:2008-08-17
East Elmhurst, NY
| reply to Smithson
It does seem that you think that a DSL connection is shared among a neighborhood data line, like cable.
DSL subscribers have a dedicated connection, and so you're more likely to get the speeds you are paying for.
I would suggest you take a read at this link:
»computer.howstuffworks.com/dsl1.htm |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | reply to Smithson
I think Smith6612 had the clue in his post about speed packages.
The distance-related issue: the longer the distance between you and your Central Office, the lower the bandwidth you can get reliably. I would make a guess your brother either has a different exchange or CO than you, or is a lot closer to it than you are. Distance is length of wire, not as the crow flies. And, to make a phone line useable at longer distances, there may be taps or load coils, that are great at voice frequencies, but kill the higher frequencies used for DSL signal.
So, Verizon used to have 1 DSL package up to 1.5M/368K, but then they came out with the DSL Lite at 768K/128K, and if you were close enough to the CO 3.0M/768K.
Then they upped the speeds for the existing packages. That's when they went to ADSL2 or whatever it is now. You can get 1M/384K (used to be 768K/128K), or 3M/768K (used to be 1.5M/384K), or 7.1M/768K (used to be 3M/768K). You signed up for a package, they tried to deliver it, but sometimes it couldn't be done reliably. They either bumped you down a tier, or you accepted the best you could get from the higher tier.
If you are close to the CO and you can get 7.1M, but you sign up for 3.0M because it's cheaper, yes your speed is capped. But if your line conditions are weaker so the best you can get is 6.0M instead of 7.1, your line is capped at 7.1 but your line can't transmit more than 6.0. In this scenario you are not throttled (well, except to 7.1).
The 5M/768K package evolved because there were people who said they couldn't get 7.1M so why were they paying so much for it. Sort of like you're saying with 3 and 1.5
So to say it again slightly differently: The equipment in the CO is throttled to your speed tier, and the line conditions affect what you actually receive up to that throttle limit.
Getting the best speed is not always easy. The database said my line was only 4,000 feet, but the best I could get was 1.5M/384K back in 2004. I switched to Speakeasy who got me up to 3M/768K probably because they had better equipment in the CO. In 2006, I switched to FiOS when it became available.
Your complaint about the monopoly -- like there's anything you or I could do about that. 
It's not a broadband monopoly if you can get Comcast. And I'd venture to say there might be another CLEC DSL provider available to you, but that's what you'd need to check out if you want.
My approach is to look at what's available and work with it in the confines of what I'm willing to pay. Based on your description through the several posts in this thread, I'd say you're probably getting as good as you can get based on line conditions. You may be able to get better, but you'd need to sweet-talk tech support to get a truck roll to check lines. But if the length doesn't support the speed you want, all you'll get is "that's the best you can get."
[edit to add] See the discussion in this thread »[service tier(s)] 1.5 to 3 free upgrade? It may shed a little more light on what you're dealing with. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Smithson
said by Smithson :So your answer is that: Verizon can do whatever they want and if I don't like it I have the option to go without an Internet connexion? Not at all. You have a choice. The same exact choice I and most of the others here have. Whether you feel it's a good one isn't relevant.
said by Smithson :In my opinion' Concast is the greediest company on the planet, and I refuse to deal with them. And that is a choice you've made. No one mandated you had to use Verizon.
said by Smithson :There is a communications monopoly in this country. Fact. 100% False. What single company controls everything?
said by Smithson :Companies such as Concast and Verizon have not kept up with the pace of Internet technology as have such countries as Japan and Denmark, and that is also a fact. The American communications infrastructure is outdated and inadequate to meet the needs of our contemporary digital world. Not totally true either. Penetration may not be as great, but those countries aren't using any technologies that are any more advanced than anything here. And they haven't had anywhere near the subsidies nor the vast areas to cover as in other countries.
said by Smithson :Your self-satisfied hyperbole and dismissive tone do nothing to discredit my assertions, which are common knowledge to anyone who doesn't listen to Verizon's marketing waffle or have a stake in defending it. You do a good enough job of discrediting yourself. The only stake I have in Verizon is the inernet connection they offer me. Do you hear me crying because I can't get 7.1?
said by Smithson :As for the pricing issue: Basically you are suggesting that if I go to the produce market and the guy in line ahead of me is charged 1.00 per pound for Iceberg lettuce (there is not a special sale), but I am charged 1.00 per half pound of the same exact lettuce, I should either accept the discrepancy without complaint or go to another produce outlet? Uh, yes. But don't leave out the important part. That sign stating that if you don't meet certain requirements, that will be the price you pay telling you that before you get to the register.
said by Smithson :And I understand exactly how DSl works.
No, you really don't understand how it works. As evidenced by:
said by Smithson :A data-pipe can't be congested or a node doesn't have a max capacity? Are you kidding me? Never said that. As a matter of fact I did say that it can happen. But that's not what's happening here, but you either just don't get it or refuse to listen to what's being told to you. |
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JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA | reply to Smithson
I'm out. Have a nice day. |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | said by JohnA :I'm out. Have a nice day. Can't say I blame you there. |
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VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
| reply to Smithson
said by Smithson :As for the pricing issue: Basically you are suggesting that if I go to the produce market and the guy in line ahead of me is charged 1.00 per pound for Iceberg lettuce (there is not a special sale), but I am charged 1.00 per half pound of the same exact lettuce, I should either accept the discrepancy without complaint or go to another produce outlet? It's more like they are charging $1 for a head of lettuce, whether or not they are one pound or a half pound.
And the guy ahead of you in line just got the last one pound head, and you're left with the half-pound heads.
Them's the breaks.
This entire thread is a circus of cluelessness. |
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