Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
1 edit | reply to Archivis
Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread
There's some better strategies out there than just spamming whatever is not on cooldown:
I use the following:
Single Target
1. Icy Touch,
2. Plague Strike (these two put DoT diseases on the target, so start out with these to get max dps),
3. Blood Strike (does more dmg based on diseases),
4. Blood Strike,
5. Death Strike (to heal you), or Obliterate (if target is near death--consumes diseases but does more damage.
6. Rune Strike as proc
7. RP dump
So that would be: IT, PS, BSx2, DS or Obl, RP dump, rune strike when it procs
Multiple Targets
1. Icy Touch
2. Plague Strike
3. Pestilence (this spreads both diseases to all nearby targets)
4. Blood Boil (AoE)
5. Blood Tap (refreshes a blood ruin instantly)
6. Blood Boil
7. Death Strike or Obl on your first target
8. RP dump on remaining targets
Alternatively, you could do this:
1. Death and Destruction (AoE)
2. Icy Touch
3. Plague Strike
4. Pestilence
5. Blood Tap
6. Blood Boil
7. RP dump on remaining targets
I'm not the greatest on maxing dps on multiple targets... I always feel like I'm missing something. 7 GCD's plus one or two death coils gives me several seconds of dead time. anyone have any thoughts on a better multiple targets cycle?
But anyways, there's a starter.
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Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Archivis
I went to bed after I posted this, so I'll try and respond to all of the posts.
Death Strike will always be used for healing. I still cannot see it overtaking Obliterate or Scourge Strike, even with its damage bonuses increased. It could replace Obliterate in PVP however.
Bloodworms is like 50DPS if the worms stay alive. They provide extra healing in a stream, but for that "oh god i need heals now" kind of thing, blood worms usually don't help and that's where Rune Tap comes in (like when i accidentally eat a tail swipe on Sapphiron and get punted across the room).
Dandy: There is no best yet.
RP Dumps for Blood are going to be Death Coil unless saving up for DRW. Unholy RP Dumps will be Death Coil, Unholy Blight or possibly Corpse Explosion. Frost RP Dumps are always Frost Strike.
As Unholy, Obliterate should never be on your bars. Take it off or I will bitchslap you. Deathstrike should be used ONLY to heal and that's if you don't trust your healers or know your healers won't get to you.
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I melt faces. |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs: | reply to Archivis
after reading all the changes, plus your theorycraft, and glyph changes, i think unholy will take the cake with a decent set of gear and a good weapon
arch, im going to throw down on your unholy build on ptr and let you know what i think |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | But you suck at this game :P |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
1 edit | reply to Archivis
arch, im hurt man...bleeding
 |
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AKDK
@wcmc.com
| reply to Archivis
after reading what some of you other DK's had to say.....please just use your dk to grind, stay out of lfg channel and give that raid spot to someone with 2kdps+(minimum) plz, as to arch...i love you, i think im gonna stay blood, i do 1- 1.5kdps more on bosses then i did with unholy, plus theres just so many classes with aoe whats 1 less on trash 8P |
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riyo
@wcmc.com
| reply to Archivis
Kris i seem to have 1 or 2 seconds of downtime sometimes to usually because i screwed my rotation and to fill the gaps i either blow a blood tap or summon my goul lol, usuallly if theres nothing i can do ill eat an auto attack and hope for a crit. btw i went 52/19/0 for my blood spec, we have 3 shamys and only 1 seems to be on when we raid, i didnt think my numbers were as good when i dropped 19 in unholy, annihaltion is just broken op. just grabed almost full 25 off tier on tuesday so thursdays raid i was hitting from 3-5k which was damn sweet since im still using titansteel destroyer (lol) i spiked to 6k on the aoe drake but hyst/drw was up mirror grim toll and crusader runeweapon procd at once so that was interesting. i didnt really aoe at all stayed on boss the whole way. was curious arch if you tried 52/19/0 against 51/13/7. was gonna do 51/13/7 but the lack of imp IT or WT chances were to great
one other thing i procd more sudden dooms with 2/5 then my buddy with 5/5 against saph and kt combined, dunno how many you use but i dont feel 5/5 is worth it.
im about to start surgery in a min so i was rushing this post i know im rambling 8D |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| reply to AKDK
said by AKDK :
after reading what some of you other DK's had to say.....please just use your dk to grind, stay out of lfg channel and give that raid spot to someone with 2kdps+(minimum) plz
uh, i didnt get...did you mean that as an insult? cause i got lost somewhere when you said dks are doin less then 2k on raids...
anyway, i do agree that dks should stay outta the aoe stuff when trash is pulled, unless a spriest uses devouring plague and a dk spreads it...im not sayin dks are bad at aoe, but the current blood build means i just need to spend more time bull$hittin on vent while trash is downed |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| reply to Archivis
FIll your downtime with death coils or do this so you don't consume your diseases:
IT > PS > HS > HS > DS > DC > DC > HS > HS > OB
I don't like using obliterate until the diseases are almost gone. If you build a macro and mash it fast you can get the obliterate in right before the diseases go off. Or you can use blood tap to spread to another and spread back at the cost of a HS.
Or maybe it's late and this makes no sense. You've been warned.
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Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| reply to Archivis
nah man, i see what you mean, but im not that "disease" friendly, and im makin all the other dks in my guild feel bad for tryin to dps...when it comes to aoes, i just do the normal obx2 hsx2 dcx2 and let the others take down the spider trash in naxx...ive been using army of the dead more often recently and its a nice tool to use to bump up the dps charts...but it actually has to be channeled, and that imo cuts on your total dps, so hit raise dead, army of the dead, let someone bloodlust, tap rune blade and hystaria and proceed to the top of the charts
and for some reason, the laziest rotation in the world seems to be getting the most love (until 3.1 in the next months) i actually could make a macro and spam the $hit outta the rotation...but i need to remind myself im still human and need something to preoccupy my shortened mind spam |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| reply to Archivis
I guess the utility of dropping IT and PS will be seen in how much they boost the dmg of diseases, and especially blood boil...
lol.... "Your crit bonus damage goes up 50% for every disease on a target." I can wish...
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Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Archivis
Actually, now that I think about it Arch, I do believe Blizz is trying to move heavy Blood DPS DKs into using Death Strike over Obliterate. With the changes being made, I could easily see DS catching up, or outperforming OB.
OB is 120% melee strike, whereas DS is 60%. However, with the talent changes, Blood DPS DKs (should be) sporting an extra +30% damage on Death Strike and +30 max runic energy (2 point tier 1 frost talent). Now, Obliterate's Glyph adds +20% damage to OB, but Death Strike's glyph adds a maximum of +52% damage to DS (+2% per 5 runic energy w/ max 130 runic energy).
I dunno though. Don't have any gear to test it out, but in the math sense, they do seem about equal:
Obliterate: +120% base +20% glyph = +140%
Death Strike: +60% base +30% talents +52% glyph = +142% |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Yeah but then you sit at RP cap and can't dump, so now what? |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA | True enough, especially since they're changing Sudden Doom to be an insta-proc rather than a buff that makes your next DC a freebie. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
2 edits | reply to Archivis
Actually, if your rotation is extended out w/ single-strike abilities (which Blizz is attempting to do by increasing +%-weapon-DPS based disease bonuses), the time you get to perform runic power dumps decreases. I mean, with a rotation of:
IT->PS->HS->HS->DS
You have enough time to peform approximately 1 DC before your runes start activating again, especially after your second rotation of:
IT->PS->HS->HS->HS->HS
Of course, this is if Blizzard makes the extra HS +weapon DPS bonuses outweigh the loss of DPS made on the initial disease setup strokes. However, if Blizz does manage to do this, and you're casting a slew of single-strike moves (rather than the 2xOB->2xHS rotation of today), you'd likely be sitting on capped runic power a good deal of the time. |
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abg
join:2009-02-06
| Why would you do IT > PS > HS > HS > HS > HS?
Seems you would rather do HS > Pest (glyphed to refresh dis) > DS > DS (or OB > OB). It seems that swapping to Gyph of Disease and dropping ghoul glyph isn't a hard choice, especially with 1 minute ghouls.
This choice of rotation also assumes 1) that OBx1 > HSx2 AND 2) Either DS is about the same dmg as OB or you specced so that OB doesn't eat diseases.
(and no, I haven't reviewed patch notes since Friday, so I'm sorry if I missed some changes.) |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| I dunno if you'd want to drop ghoul w/ a Blood-specced DK, especially since you do have access to the perma-ghoul talent.
Plus, with the disease +weapon DPS change to the disease bonus on HS, I think Blizz is trying to get Blood DKs to spam HS over Death Strike / Obliterate. |
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abg
join:2009-02-06
| said by Thaler  :I dunno if you'd want to drop ghoul w/ a Blood-specced DK, especially since you do have access to the perma-ghoul talent. Ah, good point. I keep thinking in terms of using OB, so if you end up with something like 51/13/7 so you don't eat your diseases w/ OB. If you get perma-ghoul, then yeah, ghoul glyph is potent, and if you are using DS instead of OB, then your diseases should stay up exactly the time you need (21 seconds) before you want to refresh them. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Thaler
Either way, I'll be testing a HS heavy setup versus an OB heavy setup. I have my thoughts about the results, but honestly won't be able to tell until it happens. Maybe perma ghoul is the deal breaker that has me almost shelving Obliterate. How unfortunate. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Archivis
Actually, looking over the numerical math numbers, the difference between heavy HS & DS vs. heavy Obliterate should be small. So far with the changes to 3.1, Blizzard has made the two methods numerically similar, with just small edges towards the HS/DS method (ie. diseases to full duration, heavy self-heals guaranteeing Blood Gorged to always be up, etc.). Unless Blizzard gives additional +damage tweaks to HS/DS, or nerfs Obliterate (which I hope not - screws up other specs), the difference might be only noticed by the most min/maxing raiders out there.
Blizz certainly is adopting a change to HS/DS though, as Abomination's Might has also been changed to be applied by Death Strike as well.
Don't know what's going on with Bloodworms though. I'd love to see it as a better DPS talent, but not sure if Blizz's latest change just upped the healing done by bloodworms, or increased their damage as well. |
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