abg
join:2009-02-06
| reply to abg
Re: Archivis' 3.1 DK Spec Theorycraft Thread
So I see a lot of people doing Blood and Unholy. I've been doing frost. Anyone else doing well with this, and if so, what's your spec, glyphs, and rotation?
I'm using this:
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···7;58671;
Rotation is:
IT (macroed w/ blood tap) > OB > OB > BS > FS dump.
Use HB if Rime Procs or give it a spot over your first OB if you are fighting 2 or more mobs. Doing this in Unholy Pres seems to work best over Blood Pres. (was about ~100 dps average difference).
I've tried the same rotation with the HB glyph and it just doesn't seem to work quite as well and gets a bit sloppy with Rime procs. I was doing HB > OB > BS > BS > FS dump followed by HB > OB > OB > FS dump.
The big thing I've found is that OB is more single target dps than HB and by using the HB glyph you have to drop either IT or FS so you typically get 1 less frost strike a rotation, which is on par dps-wise with OB.
This spec/rotation is supposed to really shine when you get the glyph that incrases FS/DC dmg. Likewise, a mod that tells you when KM procs so you can dump a FS is very helpful as well.
Anyone else doing DPS frost, and if so, what are you doing for it? |
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Riyo
@wcmc.com | reply to Archivis
ive done a dps frost specs, the dps was nice but the rotation was a bit sloppy, i couldnt keep it on track after 4 or 5 rotations, so my dps would slightly decline over time, |
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Archerus
| reply to abg
I always been frost before 3.1, playing 1 disease 21/50/0.
I've tried 17/51/3 HB glyph and didn't liked it much, getting owned on the dps meter by a rogue with about the same gear quality (over 1k dps on most boss fight in Naxx25). I know they got buffed, but I was prolly doing something wrong lol.
Now I'm trying 13/51/7, Icy touch glyph, unholy presence.
It looks like that:
It-PS-OB-FS-BS-BS-FS
OB-FS-OB-FS-OB-FS HB when ryme proc, HoW when the cooldown is up for the extra RP.
Using fallen crusader (razorice might be better).
It might be just the play style, but i'm doing more dps with this spec than unholy... i must be doing something wrong, because most ppl say unholy is the way to go in naxx gear... |
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Alexoi
join:2007-03-23
El Segundo, CA
1 edit | reply to abg
said by abg  :So I see a lot of people doing Blood and Unholy. I've been doing frost. Anyone else doing well with this, and if so, what's your spec, glyphs, and rotation? I'm using this: » wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···7;58671;Rotation is: IT (macroed w/ blood tap) > OB > OB > BS > FS dump. Use HB if Rime Procs or give it a spot over your first OB if you are fighting 2 or more mobs. Doing this in Unholy Pres seems to work best over Blood Pres. (was about ~100 dps average difference). I've tried the same rotation with the HB glyph and it just doesn't seem to work quite as well and gets a bit sloppy with Rime procs. I was doing HB > OB > BS > BS > FS dump followed by HB > OB > OB > FS dump. The big thing I've found is that OB is more single target dps than HB and by using the HB glyph you have to drop either IT or FS so you typically get 1 less frost strike a rotation, which is on par dps-wise with OB. This spec/rotation is supposed to really shine when you get the glyph that incrases FS/DC dmg. Likewise, a mod that tells you when KM procs so you can dump a FS is very helpful as well. Anyone else doing DPS frost, and if so, what are you doing for it? I have the simular build like yours except I spec it for pvp.
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···9;58677;
I was using your rotation before. You are right when Rime procs, it mess up my rotations. I use this rotation now.
IT-PS-OB-BS-BS-FS,
OB-HB-OB-FS.
Use FS when killing machine procs and use HB when Rime procs.
I use the EvenAlert mod, that will pop a big KM and Rime icon with timer when they proc. So I know it is time to use FS or HS.
If you are not using IT in your rotation, why you have IT glyph and Improved Icy Touch?
I love that Icy Talons, it makes KM procs so often. |
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Alexoi
join:2007-03-23
El Segundo, CA
| reply to Archerus
said by Archerus :
I always been frost before 3.1, playing 1 disease 21/50/0.
I've tried 17/51/3 HB glyph and didn't liked it much, getting owned on the dps meter by a rogue with about the same gear quality (over 1k dps on most boss fight in Naxx25). I know they got buffed, but I was prolly doing something wrong lol.
Now I'm trying 13/51/7, Icy touch glyph, unholy presence.
It looks like that:
It-PS-OB-FS-BS-BS-FS
OB-FS-OB-FS-OB-FS HB when ryme proc, HoW when the cooldown is up for the extra RP....
You have 3 OB on your 2nd rotation because you have Epidemic. Unless you do it very fast with blood presence,
the disease will fell off on the 2nd OB. Even with unholy presence, just barely make it. When Rime or KM procs and time to use HB or FS, then I need to reapply the disease and that really mess up my rotation. |
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Riyo
@wcmc.com
| reply to Archivis
ive always had larger dps numbers in blood then unholy, i always feel that unholy hits fast cuase of gcd's but the runes never pop up fast enough to keep the flow of the rotation, theres always a spot where you used up your RP on FS and that rune isnt off cd and your sitting there white hitting for a second or two. theres also the PS and IT time difference, over a long enough rotation the rune cd get stoo spread out
oh and to start your rotation you should PS first then IT |
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Warrok
@dnd.ca
| reply to Archivis
Im wondering how people get 12-19 K crits with DS while i always get around 9-10 k crits with about 6 k AP and using Betrayer of humanity which was best dps axe before 3.1..just wondering.Im using glyph of DS plus hystaria plus all the goodies in blood tree to increase its dmg.and i got the off-hand that increases the DS base dmg..which increases mine to over 900 base dmg.Im really trying to figure it out. |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| said by Warrok :
Im wondering how people get 12-19 K crits with DS while i always get around 9-10 k crits with about 6 k AP and using Betrayer of humanity which was best dps axe before 3.1..just wondering.Im using glyph of DS plus hystaria plus all the goodies in blood tree to increase its dmg.and i got the off-hand that increases the DS base dmg..which increases mine to over 900 base dmg.Im really trying to figure it out.
see, thats what im trying to understand too...
my dk is full t7.5 and even got some ulduar gear last night and im still not crankin out numbers like these people are
ive thought about frost several times, and might even do my duel talent just to try it for the moment
i tried unholy and it was distasteful
riyo, ds does get a buff from diseases in dmg, read the tooltip a bit closer, my rotation for blood goes
line 1: it, ps, hs, ds, pest, dc dump
line 2: ds, ds, pest, hs, dc dump
i open with line 1 and repeat line 2
so in the end, i use dieases only once per fight, and against someone like kologram, where there are 3 parts, i can see an increase in dps a bit
but even without, and trying the ob route, i still cant get it to work like these other people doin 12-19k crits |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Warrok
said by Warrok :
Im wondering how people get 12-19 K crits with DS while i always get around 9-10 k crits with about 6 k AP and using Betrayer of humanity which was best dps axe before 3.1. Either fights with a damage boost (Thad comes to mind), or while under the effects of hysteria, or both. I seriously doubt Blood DKs are pulling off 12-19k crits totally unmodified. |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | I probably would, because I'm just that pro. |
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abg
join:2009-02-06
| reply to Thaler
Before 3.1 I was getting 11k crits w/o BoH on normal boss fights w/o Hysteria. That was with Oblit, and talented, DS is on bar with what Oblit was, if not better.
The one thing I found as blood was that given the exact same buffs and debuffs, my crits still ranged anywhere from 7k to 11k. Perhaps Grim Toll procs were the big difference (~40% arp before 3.1).
19k seems more like w/ Hysteria on a gimmick fight, but perhpas not. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| True, but overall, Blood's big FU button got taken down a peg (%140 to ~130%) and had HS increased. I've got BoH as well, and I've seen some nearly 11k crits w/o Hysteria. Of course, this was with Mirror + Cloak Tailor proc (ie. +1300 AP), so again, its highly conditional.
In short, I doubt you're going to see anywhere near 12k with a cold-start DS on a target. |
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Warrok
@dnd.ca
| reply to Archivis
well really i didnt get any clear answer...maybe he was on thaddius (where ive had my self gettin over 20 k crits with DS).i just dont think its logical to be on a normal raid boss and even a few minutes in the fight where you get your trinkets procing,where weapons crusader pops , with your 9% dmg boost from blood tree and hysteria poped that youll get lets say a 16-17 k crit.Im pulling atm on single Boss encounters in the 3.9-4.1 k dps range.And MAX ill get maybe 11k crit.
Am i playing the same game cuz i feel a litle week if others are doing 18k crits with DS.
If im missing on something plz let me know so i can boost the dps i do a litle more over the edge.THX |
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abg
join:2009-02-06
| I definitely think that 18k is more of the exception, and agree, I'd like to know if that is on a gimick fight like Thaddius or standing in the light on Hodir or if that is on pretty much all fights.
If it's all fights, it'd be nice to see the WWS/WMO of that. |
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pwrtoppl
C-C-C-Combo Breaker
join:2008-11-21
Broomfield, CO
clubs:
| said by abg :If it's all fights, it'd be nice to see the WWS/WMO of that. i too support wws/wmo
if anyone has any meters they can post, people per raid, buffs handed out, gear checks, and the boss, id at least feel a bit better about being overgeared and still doing "bad" dps |
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Archerus
| reply to Archivis
After 3.1.2 (T7 4pc nerf + T8 buff). I've 3 pieces of T8 ATM and I'm not sure which spec to go and which glyph to take. 12/0/59 VS 0/10/60
I think 0/10/60 will seriously lack Runic power and would have too much downtime just auto-attacking and waiting for RP/Rune to come up.
SS, Ghoul and DC glyph. It would look like:
PS(15) - IT(10) - BS(10) - BS(10) - SS(20) - UB(-40) =25 RP left
Then
SS(20) - DC(-40) - SS(20) - SS(20) - DC(-40) = 5 left
We are ending doing 5 moves per rune rotation... sometimes 6.
Is grabbing IT glyph over SS a good idea? It would result in more RP per rotation, switching SS for IT,PS and DC/UB.
Also, there is a lot of ArP on T8 set (not sure how much, don't have access to this information atm) and it's one of the worst stats for unholy. Frost is kinda in the same boat, but at least we're doing more physical dmg with frost than Unholy.
Do you think Unholy going to be inferior to blood and Frost after 3.1.2? |
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JohnnyBoy
join:2009-03-04
| After moving to T8 I can see Blood pulling away from the pack a little but will reserve judgement until seeing how it turns out in practice. Pure speculation suggests we'll see Frost and Unholy pull back some from where they are though.
As a Frost DK the bulk of my DPS is derived from Frost Strike and removing extra strikes from rotation becomes a pretty hefty DPS loss. On top of this all of my abilities are already well beyond the crit "soft cap" so the 3% crit buff on T8 2piece doesn't help much especially in comparison to the monster that 4piece T7 currently is. |
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chungana
@rr.com | reply to Archivis
doesnt the obliterate devour the diseases so would u have to put up all the diseases after each obliterate |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Which spec are you referring to? Obliterate could remove diseases unless you spec'd into frost to have it NOT remove diseases. |
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Morbideath
@af.mil
| reply to Archivis
Kinda switching gears a little bit, does anyone have anymore insight on DK tanking as of 12may? I have been tanking since i started my dk about 6 months ago and with all the nerfs i have setlled down in blood, it seems to be the most efficient beings frost got pretty much broken and unholy just doesn't have the same mitigation/instant aggro i can produce in a blood spec. also just my 2cents on dps. Unholy appears to be more of a starter dps as you increase gear and experience with the class i found that raid dps is much better with a frost or blood spec. but when you can come in with half blues as unholy and put up 4kdps in unholy a lot of people find it hard to wein off the spec, but i have recorded 4-5k in frost with slightly better gear. in the end they all have their ups and downs, just falls to player preference, ezmode dps 3-4k go unholy |
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