djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to RARPSL
Re: I can see both sides here...
There is a simple solution to the 3rd party VoIP situation. When I use such an application, I am connecting with a Server run by the VoIP Provider. Thus Comcast KNOWS that this is a VoIP Session and can serve it over the same channel as they use for THEIR CDV service.
Nope, sorry, that would be treating VOIP differently than other internet traffic, which is against net neutrality principles.
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AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
 ·Embarq
| said by djrobx  :Nope, sorry, that would be treating VOIP differently than other internet traffic, which is against net neutrality principles. Exactly. Internet network neutrality means you can't hinder nor help Internet traffic based on protocol, as to prioritize VoIP is to deprioritize other Internet traffic.
The core of the matter is this: CDV is not an Internet-based service. You cannot access the CDV infrastructure from outside of Comcast's network. |
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bzmeteorite
join:2006-02-15
Nipomo, CA
1 edit | reply to djrobx
said by djrobx :There is a simple solution to the 3rd party VoIP situation. When I use such an application, I am connecting with a Server run by the VoIP Provider. Thus Comcast KNOWS that this is a VoIP Session and can serve it over the same channel as they use for THEIR CDV service.
Nope, sorry, that would be treating VOIP differently than other internet traffic, which is against net neutrality principles. There seems to be a lot of definitions of network neutrality. I am of the type that net neutrality is not allowing bribes or holding certain networks hostage or at a degraded speed (yes, you can down mod me... that's just my definition of what appears to be a lot of differing definitions/opinions out there on net neutrality, though mine is probably closer to the original intention of net neutrality). Because of the fact that VoIP and IPTV are extremely latency and packet loss sensitive, I don't have a problem with prioritizing it over data services which are mostly for bulk and do not require even latency or packet loss. As long as everyone's VoIP and IPTV are prioritized evenly (not one provider over another), of course, as I mentioned earlier, I'm sure some may use a proprietary solution which may not get prioritized... inviting more problems.
This makes theory sense otherwise everything would have to be extremely overbuilt, because as peak hour comes around, your (maybe very important 911) call or video may stutter or drop completely (in the case of VoIP) as a link approaches capacity.
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What happens when you combine common sense and an outspoken personality? |
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trentboyea
join:2009-01-20
New York, NY
| reply to espaeth
Exactly. If you want to identify Vonage or other traffic you have to inspect the packets. That requires DPI, which most everyone will tell you they don't want. It is either cool to look at packets or not - it can't really be both things at the same time I don't think. |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| reply to espaeth
said by espaeth :said by djrobx :Nope, sorry, that would be treating VOIP differently than other internet traffic, which is against net neutrality principles. Exactly. Internet network neutrality means you can't hinder nor help Internet traffic based on protocol, as to prioritize VoIP is to deprioritize other Internet traffic. The core of the matter is this: CDV is not an Internet-based service. You cannot . Yes you can and do "access the CDV infrastructure from outside of Comcast's network". At some point, the traffic leaves the Comcast network and flows over the Internet or some TelCo's network (unless both sides of the phone call are CDV numbers). VoIP is Voice over IP and thus IS an Internet-Based service. It flows over the same Comcast LAN as other Internet Traffic until it reaches an Peering point and passes to some other ISP's network. The "Last Mile" is carried by a separate channel to the Head End but then gets commingled with all other IP traffic as it flows through the the Comcast network. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| said by RARPSL :Yes you can and do "access the CDV infrastructure from outside of Comcast's network". At some point, the traffic leaves the Comcast network and flows over the Internet or some TelCo's network (unless both sides of the phone call are CDV numbers). VoIP is Voice over IP and thus IS an Internet-Based service. There is nothing Internet-based about CDV. It's using the DOCSIS network to terminate to media gateways on Comcast's network to do SS7 or private SIP/H323 handoffs. None of that traffic touches an Internet backbone.
Standard Internet VoIP can be used on any open Internet connection -- I can go to my neighbor's house with my ATA, or make SIP calls from a hotel room over the Internet. You cannot register to Comcast's SIP gateways over the public Internet. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
1 edit | reply to RARPSL
VoIP = Voice over Internet Protocol
Just because its using a protocol used by the Internet does not mean that it makes use of the Internet. Making use of an Internet protocol does not make it an Internet based service.
Calling it VoIP allows it to get past those +$15/month of government taxes/fees/unfees. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to espaeth
They do not run 2 separate physical networks for this AND that would be the only true way to separate the traffic.
No matter how you dress up the pig, it is still a pig. The traffic flows around the world on the same pipes. At one point or another it all comes together regardless of channel, signal, or protocol. |
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