WSHARK
@rr.com
| reply to plvick
Re: [TWC] OMG I Feel so violated! What if someone got KILLED?
So I have a few things to say. You obviously were uploading or downloading, in some form of P2P. How they catch people is they seed a fake or sometimes real file. Then all they do is look at the IP's leeching it, and send letters to the ISP's, who MUST track every single address they lease or provide. Every time you change your IP Address RR logs it in a server, period. There is no way you were mistaken for someone else, etc...
Now to your other complaint which is someone answering your questions in your orig. post.....
quote:
First I got the dead RR line and then the email from Time Warner accusing me of theft... now they throttle my connection? I think my line is specifically being targeted now. So, how to test... or what to do? THAT is the real question.
For everyone... what to do to get a better line? Not just for this new P2P issue, but in general?
What if I was "special" somehow, and got an untapped line? How to be "special"? (note, not "illegal")
Your line isn't targeted, RR has Millions of users, and to keep tabs on a single user, isn't worth their time. The e-mail didn't accuse you of theft, the e-mail said they had a complaint against the IP Address you had at a certain time. Goes without saying, that you, or someone using your connection (i.e an unsecured wireless router) was caught doing something.
There is no way to test to see if you are "targeted", you can't do anything about it. Are they throttling your P2P, maybe, but who knows.
To get a "better line" I am assuming you could pay for a higher tier, which yields more bandwidth, or switch companies.
There is also no way to get an "untapped" line that is legal. By "untapping" you would have to unlock your Cable Modem, which is illegal, and can't be done anymore. As well this isn't like phone service, where someone has a physical tap installed. They aren't "on your line" and physically have tapped into it. Your "line" is shared by everyone else in your neighborhood, potentially 500 people or so. If they want anything, they will track it by IP. |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to plvick
said by plvick  :said by maartena :said by plvick :I consume more news then most, I assure you. Just how wide-spread is this problem? A class action suit is inevitable. They just started doing it. I don't really see it as a "problem" either. Moral of this story is that if you had not broken the law, this post would never have been here.  The moral you cite is still based on the inaccurate assumption that I broke the law, which is the problem. If you ever uploaded material through P2P like torrents that you do not own distribution rights to, you broke the law.
It does not matter you own that movie 100 times, you are still not allowed to upload 1 byte of it using P2P.
The truth is, that RR would not have cut you off if you did not at least upload something that is copyrighted, or at the very least downloaded something that is copyrighted.
Ergo: you broke the law. |
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WSHARK
@rr.com
| reply to plvick
As well, from the title, stating "Someone could have been killed" I am assuming you either subscribe to TWC's VoIP service, or have VoIP of your own.
If you subscribe to TWC's VoIP service, then they will kill the HSD portion of the modem, but keep voice active.
If you subscribe to your own VoIP provider, then obviously killing your HSD kills your phone. Is it messed up and wrong, yes. Is it TWC's responsibility to track who uses VoIP on their system, no. That is one of those things, that until something bad happens because of it, then it will continue to be ignored. I see your problem though. |
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plvick
join:2008-12-22
San Antonio, TX
1 edit | reply to maartena
ERGO: I did no such thing as break the law. You are still assuming that when RR cuts you off your "busted". That assumption is flawed... one quick example (there are many): what if someone was war dialing just as I installed my new wifi router and got on it, ever so briefly, before I applied the WEP protections? Once they moved some P2P traffic on my line I get kicked/etc. Just an example, but one that has already won in court against the RIAA. In this scenario the fact remains; an innocent client victimized by the ISP.
WShark, anyway, thanks for the details. I understand what they are doing, I just have to keep an eye on them now. I never felt like I really needed to before. TTYL |
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plvick
join:2008-12-22
San Antonio, TX
3 edits | reply to WSHARK
Re: [TWC] OMG I Feel so violated! What if someone got KILLED?
said by WSHARK :
So I have a few things to say. You obviously were uploading or downloading, in some form of P2P. How they catch people is they seed a fake or sometimes real file. Then all they do is look at the IP's leeching it, and send letters to the ISP's, who MUST track every single address they lease or provide. Every time you change your IP Address RR logs it in a server, period. There is no way you were mistaken for someone else, etc...
I can't believe that everyone is good with this? Like it is totally fine, and could never mistakenly target an innocent person/etc? I just MUST be guilty. It is just so strange.
What seems even more strange is the fact that it is all anyone really wants to talk about. The legality and ethics. It has been discussed to death everywhere and was not why I opened this new topic. I just think it is weird that things go like that here.
Also, you mentioned that "who knows" if they are throttling... well, I do. I can see them doing it, and that interruption in my service kicked it off. I am going to use wireshark to get a grip on it. About "someone being killed"... I was referring to 911 emergency services, which my VoIP with 911 is provided by Vonage so it was killed (in fact, I was on the phone and the line dropped, so I know it happened). However, the threat is not limited to that. There could be all sorts of things going wrong that an interruption to service like they did to me could trigger, serious things. The 911/VoIp thing is just the easiest to communicate.
As for "bait torrents": If it is a fake torrent, just file-named StarWars720p.mkv (or some such schmack) and I participate in the P2P of the file, I have done nothing wrong. Remember, it's a fake torrent, so I have not really propagated anyone's intellectual property. I have just moved a fake file around. I have checked, Lucas Arts does not own the exclusive rights to the filename StarWars720p.mkv. This would be a kin to trying to bust someone for dealing drugs when all they sold was flower or soap. Everyone walks; even if the buyer or seller really thought they were doing something illegal, they were, IN FACT, not. Please understand this is just an example, but valid none the less. |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
3 edits | said by plvick :I can't believe that everyone is good with this? Like it is totally fine, and could never mistakenly target an innocent person/etc? I just MUST be guilty. It is just so strange. Logs usually don't lie. The big companies nowadays simply start downloading their own works from known torrent sites, and then log the IP addresses they are downloading the files from. They don't even have to use bait torrents, they simply have a business firewall in front of their downloads that are tweaked to never upload a single byte so they can never be charged by a lawyer you may hire stating "but you upload yourself using P2P". Naw, they are much much smarter then that.
Your IP address showed up in the logs, they contacted TWC, TWC has an agreement with RIAA, and here we are in this topic.
Even if you kill the torrent as soon as it hits 100%, it has already uploaded portions of it, and even uploading the slightest portion is illegal.
What seems even more strange is the fact that it is all anyone really wants to talk about. The legality and ethics. It has been discussed to death everywhere and was not why I opened this new topic. I just think it is weird that things go like that here. The reason these things are being discussed is that you (or someone in your house) obviously broke the law, and have no logs from your side proving otherwise that would hold up in a court of law, where they have carefully prepared logs that would hold up in court if needed.
Also, you mentioned that "who knows" if they are throttling... well, I do. I can see them doing it, and that interruption in my service kicked it off. I am going to use wireshark to get a grip on it. About "someone being killed"... I was referring to 911 emergency services, which my VoIP with 911 is provided by Vonage so it was killed (in fact, I was on the phone and the line dropped, so I know it happened). However, the threat is not limited to that. There could be all sorts of things going wrong that an interruption to service like they did to me could trigger, serious things. The 911/VoIp thing is just the easiest to communicate. That could simply be a technical problem. If they throttle your P2P, they would use P2P throttling technology only, like some providers already use. As a matter of fact, one of the known ways around P2P throttling is to disguise the packets as skype or other VOIP packets, as ISP's are in fact very careful not to throttle these types of services.
On top of that, Vonage is required to give local 911 service, but they are in no way required by law to make 100% sure your Vonage is always up and running. If some truck hits the pole at the end of your street and breaks all the wires, resulting in power loss, phone loss and cable loss, the trucking company is responsible for the damage to the pole, but they are in NO WAY responsible for you not being able to reach 911 as a result of that pole problem. Bottom line, if your services are down, and your grandma gets a heart attack in your house.... you can't sue TWC or Vonage for your phone not working right, and your grandma dieing as a result. The small print in both contracts takes care of that.
As for "bait torrents": If it is a fake torrent, just file-named StarWars720p.mkv (or some such schmack) and I participate in the P2P of the file, I have done nothing wrong. Remember, it's a fake torrent, so I have not really propagated anyone's intellectual property. I have just moved a fake file around. I have checked, Lucas Arts does not own the exclusive rights to the filename StarWars720p.mkv. This would be a kin to trying to bust someone for dealing drugs when all they sold was flower or soap. Everyone walks; even if the buyer or seller really thought they were doing something illegal, they were, IN FACT, not. Please understand this is just an example, but valid none the less. The problem is that they don't use bait torrents that much anymore, because they know damn well it is hard to hold up in court. They just start downloading the same file you are, and they happen to hold all the rights to said copyrighted material. Even if they did not have a corporate firewall, and were actually also uploading some of the file themselves, they could still win a case as they have the legal right to distribute said movie, whereas you obviously have not.
Again, you got caught with your hands in the cookie jar, and you still want to eat the cookie. |
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plvick
join:2008-12-22
San Antonio, TX
3 edits | Your entire long winded reply is still based upon the premise that I must have done wrong. The logs don't have to lie for me to still be innocent. Which is really the whole point off all this off-topic blather. I started this topic and have further clarified this topic to exclude legal and ethical chitchat. There were seven question marks in my first message, not one had to do with that. |
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rra
Advice
join:2008-09-19
Kingsville, MO | Unless you broke the law or Your TOS/AUP your services wouldn't have been interupted. So which is it? |
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QueTipp
join:2008-07-29 | reply to plvick
Have you contacted customer support? |
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plvick
join:2008-12-22
San Antonio, TX
| reply to rra
said by rra :Unless you broke the law or Your TOS/AUP your services wouldn't have been interupted. So which is it? That is simply not true. |
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plvick
join:2008-12-22
San Antonio, TX
| reply to QueTipp
said by QueTipp :Have you contacted customer support? Are you kidding? |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| reply to plvick
I would have thought that might be a good idea rather than posting many unsubstantiated accusations on this board.
I do not remember a time that TW interfered with any connection other than to shut it off. Certainly had they been doing that it would have caused many threads on this board.
Have a great holiday period.
hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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alexintexas
join:2003-01-11
San Antonio, TX
clubs:
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Time Warner VOIP
| reply to plvick
said by plvick :ERGO: I did no such thing as break the law. You are still assuming that when RR cuts you off your "busted". That assumption is flawed... one quick example (there are many): what if someone was war dialing just as I installed my new wifi router and got on it, ever so briefly, before I applied the WEP protections? you have NO valid point, if TWC sent you a compliance email or letter its YOUR fault you been busted! swallow it and move on
1. why the hell would you "setup" a wireless router with internet hooked up??????? again you ADMIT, its YOUR fault.
2. just like owning a car you have OBLIGATIONS to that car ie: change oil, maintain insurance etc, this goes for a broadband line. YOU must maintain a firewall, keep ILLEGAL files, programs, and more important HACKERS off your system
THIS IS NOT your ISP'S responsibility but your own.
now as for stating that TWC has killed your phone because you have failed to meet the TOS, im assuming this is a THIRD PARTY voip service. there is NO GUARANTEE from ANY PARTY to this service, again YOUR fault. you shared be it you did it or your system was compromised its YOUR FAULT!
so if someone dies there is NO ONE to blame but you.
as for throttling your connection, TWC can do what they wish to do with their system, as far as finding out what tools to use to "track" what your isp is doing google is your friend, there are also many posts on this site about that, use the search feature!!!!!! |
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plvick
join:2008-12-22
San Antonio, TX
2 edits | No valid point? The POINT is: Receipt of a TWC compliance email or letter is not getting "busted", no matter how narrow minded you are.
Most of your email above is nit-picking on details of examples I gave to better communicate with you... you are missing the point by focusing on them. |
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plvick
join:2008-12-22
San Antonio, TX
| reply to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin :I would have thought that might be a good idea rather than posting many unsubstantiated accusations on this board. The unsubstantiated accusation that started this topic came from TWC. |
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alexintexas
join:2003-01-11
San Antonio, TX
clubs:
·AT&T Yahoo
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
| reply to plvick
explain to me in DETAIL how this is NOT getting busted?????
a COMPLIANCE email letter is stating you are
1. overusing or abusing your bandwidth
2. sharing illegal/copyrighted files
3. using your connection for business use
4. using your connection other then that for residential use
5. have been hacked
6. are hacked and the hacker is running scanning tools on your pc or sharing illegal files etc
YOU WHERE BUSTED IN ANY EVENT
again YOUR fault. and no i repeat no valid point to what you have posted.
have you read the TOS?????????????
this thread needs to be moved mods |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs: | reply to plvick
However its their Network and if you carefully study the TOS you are SOL. They can and will take action against TOS abusers.
Hob |
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alexintexas
join:2003-01-11
San Antonio, TX
clubs: | agree 10000% |
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zen1
@optonline.net
| reply to plvick
a few needed points,
1. it is against FCC rules to single out a service, such as P2P, and throttle it, and ISP's HAVE been fined for doing that
2. many innocent people have been accused of illegally sharing files, and been proven innocent.
3. under "fair use" you CAN distribute part of a movie, song, or program, so long as it's not the whole thing.
4. all of this CAN be substantiated, if not here, then in the ISP NEWS section. |
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