moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Rick
Re: Comcast is scared....
said by Rick  :You fail to consider how allowing them entry could in fact raise prices higher than normal in time. That could happen in one of two ways. First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. Who gets to pay for that in the form of higher prices? All the rest. Secondly, we've all seen the news of verizons massive loss of landlines and dsl customers. There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be? To do the same because all verizon would have done is to cannibalize customers who otherwise might have allowed them to keep prices lower. Your first point only works if FIOS were to manage to lure a lot of people away from Comcast. If Comcast had a superior product, then this would be a non-argument.
You second point, so far, has not shown itself. In fact, neither Comcast nor FIOS really compete on price but on how many features (channels, VOD, etc.)
Are you really auguring that competition brings higher prices? Hasn't the lack of competition also caused rates to go up? |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| said by moonpuppy :Your first point only works if FIOS were to manage to lure a lot of people away from Comcast. If Comcast had a superior product, then this would be a non-argument. You second point, so far, has not shown itself. In fact, neither Comcast nor FIOS really compete on price but on how many features (channels, VOD, etc.) You are quite correct on this. I have a choice between FiOS and Cablevision and there is no price advantage from switching between one or the other. On this point alone, Cablevision has managed to retain a significant market share in areas where FiOS is available. As for me, I am sticking with CV because it works and I have no complaints. If FiOS came along with a steep discount, I might be willing to talk but that is not going to happen. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| reply to moonpuppy
"Hasn't the lack of competition also caused rates to go up?"
I don't think that Comcast, nor most tv companies for that matter..have unfairly raised prices and in fact...todays prices reflect a far better value than they used to.
I don't know about you..but back in the day I used to pay 300.00 a month for dial up internet by the hour.
Today..it's 20 to 50 dollars depending on who we're talking about.
Back in the day I used to get a few channels in black and white. Today..it's dvr's and high def and widescreen and color.
Prices are higher..but so too is quality and speeds and dependability.
Despite some having a monopoly over the years..it's created a lot of innovation and value.
Year after year..comcast has raised HSI speeds and features..and charged zero dollars more for it.
Does that sound like a monopoly abusing it's power to you?
It certainly doesn't to me.
What has caused rates to go DOWN however for many consumers..is bundling of products.
And that's why so many landlines and dsl customers are fleeing the telco's. Because people are getting better deals by doing just that.
This is a sign of how a company growing larger and people moving more services to them DOES lower prices.
I stand by my comments. I'm not against competition..nor against Verizon going into areas with fios. I think it's a good technology and wouldn't mind having that choice myself.
But it does need to be thought through for the reasons I mentioned. It COULD lead to higher prices overall and actually be self defeating. People are failing to realize how the loss of landlines and dsl will be devastating to this company in the years ahead. And how it may weaken them.
There is nothing conducive in that..combined with the high costs of a fios rollout..to fios in the years ahead being an inexpensive product. Again...I ask the question...what good does that do for consumers if all you did was to serve to weaken the other company?
You cause prices to go UP for everyone.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Rick :"Hasn't the lack of competition also caused rates to go up?" I don't think that Comcast, nor most tv companies for that matter..have unfairly raised prices and in fact...todays prices reflect a far better value than they used to. I don't know about you..but back in the day I used to pay 300.00 a month for dial up internet by the hour. Today..it's 20 to 50 dollars depending on who we're talking about. Back in the day I used to get a few channels in black and white. Today..it's dvr's and high def and widescreen and color. Prices are higher..but so too is quality and speeds and dependability. Despite some having a monopoly over the years..it's created a lot of innovation and value. Year after year..comcast has raised HSI speeds and features..and charged zero dollars more for it. Does that sound like a monopoly abusing it's power to you? It certainly doesn't to me. You may think they represent a better value but I know for a fact that competition lowers prices and/or has more features. In my area, there were 2 cable companies that were constantly competing. In the rest of the area with just Comcast, you had to pay for The Disney Channel, Home Team Sports and a couple of others that the competition area had as part of their package. And the prices were lower than the monopoly area.
And yes, I do remember the days of Compuserve and Delphi. I also remember when AOL came in and offered unlimited dial up which forced others to do the same thing and the prices came down.
said by Rick :What has caused rates to go DOWN however for many consumers..is bundling of products. And that's why so many landlines and dsl customers are fleeing the telco's. Because people are getting better deals by doing just that. This is a sign of how a company growing larger and people moving more services to them DOES lower prices. Many are leaving DSL for FIOS so all those DSL customers are not total losses. And we have already seen how Comcast can screw up a simple phone connection. (Remember the granny with a hammer story?)
The prices don't go down. I have yet to see Comcast lower their prices. It hasn't happened. Your argument will be they added more which is NOT the same.
said by Rick :I stand by my comments. I'm not against competition..nor against Verizon going into areas with fios. I think it's a good technology and wouldn't mind having that choice myself. But it does need to be thought through for the reasons I mentioned. It COULD lead to higher prices overall and actually be self defeating. People are failing to realize how the loss of landlines and dsl will be devastating to this company in the years ahead. And how it may weaken them. There is nothing conducive in that..combined with the high costs of a fios rollout..to fios in the years ahead being an inexpensive product. Again...I ask the question...what good does that do for consumers if all you did was to serve to weaken the other company? You cause prices to go UP for everyone. Are you serious? You are fully against any OTHER company coming in on Comcast's turf. I could use your same argument that the Comcast phone service is causing people to flee landlines and causing higher prices for those who can't get their voice service.
You are fully against any competition because of who you work for.
And how do I cause prices to go up? If FIOS can do it better than Comcast, which in my case they did, then why should anyone not be allowed the choice of cable TV carriers? You sound like Comcast did when DirectTV came in and you guys were paying $400 to people who would switch to you and ditched DirectTV.
Try again. |
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tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·Callcentric
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·FrontierNet Intern..
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :in fact raise prices higher than normal in time. do you mean faster than they do on their own with all of their unfees and below the line adjustments?
said by Rick :First..if you allow another company to simply cherry pick the highest ROI customers..you create an imbalance that saddles Comcast with the rest. not if comcast could actually compete with verizon in terms of features. again, fios is a buzzword. its something cool and hip. if comcast would compete with fios in terms of offered value-adds or even (*gasp*) prices...comcast wouldn't lose anything to the "higher roi areas". more cable shilling....
said by Rick :There is NOTHING conducive in that which will allow verizon to be particularly price competitive in the years ahead and if anything..due to the high cost of the rollout itself..could cause them to RAISE prices higher than normal. What might comcasts move then have to be? hmmmm...maybe not worry about investor profits for a year or two, suck it up, keep your prices low, and win your subs back? again, if comcast were really confident in where they stand, they wouldn't be spreading this fud.
said by Rick :I don't think that Comcast, nor most tv companies for that matter..have unfairly raised prices and in fact...todays prices reflect a far better value than they used to. just because technology advances, doesn't mean you have to pay more for it. in fact, my computers that i purchase today are *much* faster than my 286 and....guess what...i didn't have to pay more to get them...
epic fail again, rick. technology advances. as it advances, the costs of production drop. technology gets cheaper (unless you live on the bleeding edge) as time goes on.
said by Rick :Prices are higher..but so too is quality and speeds and dependability. like over-compressed hd video, consistently bottom customer service rankings, and techs/contractors that kill animals, people, and fill my house with sewage? much better quality of workmanship there.
said by Rick :Despite some having a monopoly over the years..it's created a lot of innovation and value. and a lot of higher fees. you skated *just* underneath anti-trust there rick.
said by Rick :Year after year..comcast has raised HSI speeds and features..and charged zero dollars more for it. Does that sound like a monopoly abusing it's power to you? It certainly doesn't to me. no, but we have new caps and just because you look at *one* service does not mean the other two haven't gone up...take off the blinders
said by Rick :What has caused rates to go DOWN however for many consumers..is bundling of products. unless you live in an area where you can't bundle, or you don't want to get shafted by the cable company three different ways. way to *slowly* move more towards a monopoly of the media services.
said by Rick :And that's why so many landlines and dsl customers are fleeing the telco's. Because people are getting better deals by doing just that. landlines are antiquated technology that most *younger* people see no value to. they have their cell phones. in ten years, this will be the same with coaxial cable from the mso. high speed internet connections will remove the need for cable. oh wait, i can't go over my caps. nevermind.
said by Rick :I stand by my comments. I'm not against competition..nor against Verizon going into areas with fios. unless it's comcast's home turf.
said by Rick :wouldn't mind having that choice myself. you'd have to go into work wearing a scarlet *v* on your chest.
said by Rick :There is nothing conducive in that..combined with the high costs of a fios rollout..to fios in the years ahead being an inexpensive product. Again...I ask the question...what good does that do for consumers if all you did was to serve to weaken the other company? i'm sorry, all i heard was ...blah, blah, blah...cable must stay strong.
again, if you walk softly and carry a big stick, let your products speak for your sleazy marketing and spreading of fud. you are going to raise rates with or without verizon. i love how your argument hinges on the fact that "verizon is going to take all of the rich subs, so we can't support ourselves". free market at work rick. can't handle it. fold under.
said by Rick :You cause prices to go UP for everyone. nope, the cartel-like structure of the msos/telcos causes prices to go up. i thought we've all made that perfectly clear.
q. |
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to n2jtx
Absent price or service as a factor, most people don't change service providers. (Why fix what isn't broken?) However, Comcast has steadfastly stated, and publicly, that they will not compete (with FIOS, U-Verse, or anyone else) based on price. This leaves their competitors free to undercut Comcast in this area (which VZ has, in fact, started to do; the only reason I'm switching is because VZ has managed to adjust programming prices downward enough to offset Comcast's dual advantages in lower STB lease costs and not needing STBs for cable-ready TVs). Comcast has likely not taken a look at VZ's current bundle pricing, compared to their own (unless that is exactly *why* they have managed to slow Verizon up, because the recent programming-price changes have them worried?). |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | reply to moonpuppy
not in my area. Cable rates have been the same for years. Cable HSI rates have been the same for years too. No price increases with Buckeye Cable. Smaller cable companies can keep their prices low. larger companies raise. |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | reply to tubbynet
As always, my hats off to you for a great post. |
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
1 edit | reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc :not in my area. Cable rates have been the same for years. Cable HSI rates have been the same for years too. No price increases with Buckeye Cable. Smaller cable companies can keep their prices low. larger companies raise. Complete agreement. My ISP keeps rates the same and has caused AT&T, Comcast, & Clearwire to lower their rates in our service area to compete, but customers still don't switch. Why? Because the service is good and stable. It may not be as fast as what AT&T or Comcast offer, but people value stable, reliable, uncapped connections than the fastest *sorta works sometimes with caps and non-English speaking tech support* anytime.
Treating customers with respect has more value than the fastest connection could ever offer.
--
Fight NebuAD and the like:
Click Here to pollute their data |
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BigDog
join:2008-12-12
Montpelier, VT | reply to ptrowski
Huh? |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
1 edit | reply to tubbynet
Excellent post, I agree with every word of it.
I posted this in the Comcast forums, but here, so it get's more exposure on the front page...
I think it's complete bullshit that Philly's City Council is delaying the Verizon FIOS vote. Everyone I've talked to, ether non-technical or technical person, ALL SAY THE SAME THING. They want CHOICE. People are tired of having very limited options when it comes to cable services. DirecTV/Dish don't always count. Not everyone lives in a place where a dish could work. We haven't advanced DirecTV's dish like we have a Sirius / XM antenna. We may never get that far either.
Anyway, how can the council members deny Verizon? Just do a side by side comparison. Channel lineup cards, DVR software, Set top features, Broadband speeds, and Price. Not only is Verizon technically better, IT IS BETTER. They will deploy GPON and will provide 100+ MB/s speeds when the market calls for it. They already have 100+ HD Channels as well as HD-VOD. They have Multi Room DVR, they have web based DVR scheduling, they have games widgets and much better searching on their set tops. They are over 1000 times better than Comcast, and I would switch in a heartbeat. Everyone I know would switch. Our caveat is that Verizon has no intrest in my area. Philly on the other hand, being a big city, has plenty of potential. It would be in the cities best intrest to let Verizon come in there.
All cable can do is spend tons of money and time trying to stop Verizon. That's the most misguided and wasteful spending I've ever seen in my life. Instead of having a hissy fit like a fu*king 3 year old, Comcast needs to funnel that time and money into actually making their network comparable with Fios. I'm sorry but 30 HD channels is only a fraction of Verizon's 100+. Sorry but Comcast doesn't allow you to do Multi Room DVR. Sorry but if your into fantasy sports your not going to play it on your Comcast box. Only Verizon can think of cool features like that. Comcast is a f'ing JOKE compared to Verizon.
Fios is what the city needs. If anything it will take Verizon to light the fire under Comcast ass. IMO the Government should have NO SAY in this. If a company has the capital and wants to make a business venture in that area, LET THEM. It benefits the economy. Gives customers choice, creates jobs, causes competition that INNOVATES. How many times do you see one bank across the street from another? I know two Chinese restaurants less than a quarter mile from each other. How many times are two, three or even four different fast food chains right next or across from each other? We have many areas with different gas stations right across the street from each other. It's called competition, get used to it. Comcast needs to grow up. They have nothing to worry about if their product is top notch. But they must be shaking in their boots with all negative comments and lobbying they are doing against Verizon. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to knightmb
very true. all of Buckeye's Help Desk employees are based here in Toledo, are actual residents here, they use their services just like the rest of the people and chances are used them well before being employed by them.
If you call the Help Desk at AT&T 9 out of 10times you won't get someone in your own state or region let alone in the same country. And if the Help Desk can't fix your problem on the phone that SAME week you get a tech to your house free of charge no questions ask they come out and fix the problem.
We actually have the fastest internet in NW Ohio 20Megs down and 1 meg up. Digital Phone starting at $13.50 before taxes--rounds out to $20ish with a few taxes not a big deal. Plus that includes free long distance in 419/567 area codes here. ATT wants $30 for their basic U-Verse package.
But instead of ATT trying to beat on price and local service they're reps are going door to door telling people that in Feb 2009 their cable TV won't work anymore due to its not IPTV from ATT. I'm surprised the Cable company hasnt issued lawsuit against them yet for flat out lying. Hell, i'm surprised nobody in town has sued ATT yet for false-advertising with that. |
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mrvid
join:2007-06-19
Levittown, NY
1 edit | reply to PGHammer
ROI & cherry picking do not go hand in hand/price based on costs
To all who convieniently mix up these terms, lets clarify.. cherry picking neighborhoods with a higher ROI or higher income neighborhoods means 2 very different things. While I would think, any company has to offer services where they think it would be needed, of higher income vs lower income neighborhoods, neither guarantees customers in one area will want more features, channels, services over another.
On ROI, why don't we see ice cream trucks driving around in the snow with chains on the tires; what are the chances of selling a lot of ice cream in 0 degree weather. Yes, someone may buy it but I wouldn't think many. As with any business, there has to be a return on the investment or it doesn't pay to invest.
As far as price, can you sell a $1.00 candy bar for $0.75 and stay in business. Verizon has to make sure they can make a profit, I think their pricing has been very fair when you consider what they offer compared to their competition.
My feelings, Philly's getting cheated and if I was a Philly resident, i'd be angry; thankfully for me, i'm not. |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to Rick
Re: Comcast is scared....
said by Rick :Year after year..comcast has raised HSI speeds and features..and charged zero dollars more for it. Does that sound like a monopoly abusing it's power to you? It certainly doesn't to me. Comcast hasn't touched HSI prices because they're screwing the TV subs with annual (or sometimes twice annual) price hikes. I dumped HSI for DSL five years ago because of poor service and the high price and in those 5 years, my DSL rates have increased once while my cable TV rates were increased at least 8 times.
If Verizon FIOS were available where I live, I'd dump my Comcast TV service in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, AT&T dominates the S.F. Bay Area the chances of getting FIOS are slim to none.  |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs: | reply to moonpuppy
'Comcast Rick' giving pro-Comcast comments, who'd have thought. That he appears to think he's being taken seriously is the more bizarre thing. |
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andyman
join:2001-02-08
Doylestown, PA
| reply to Rick
I just dumped comcast tv for directv, as soon as fios is available on my street I will be dumping comcast internet as well.
My monthly bill went from about $80 at the beginning of 2008 to over $115 without adding any services. I'm tired of their bullshit promotions that you have to call and threaten to leave so they give you another one.
I have FIOS at my office and the pricing has been the same for 2 years and no connection problems, unlike comcast going out every 6 weeks or so. |
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