quatra
join:2003-06-22
Matthews, NC
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| More WOTLK changes
Yikes! Rogues counter attack with full weapon damage every time they dodge (unfair advantage - that is literally the title of the talent)!! I (as a warrior) won't stand a chance. I do like rogues new misdirect ability - finally some raid utility for rogues! Mace talent will give 15% ArP - better than 7 rage I suppose - I wonder how this will compare to sword spec dps. It looks like they've added some pvp talents to the prot tree - but not nearly enough to make prot pvp realistic and too deep to be worth picking up otherwise.
Copied from mmo-champion:
Quote from: Gamnin (Source)Hello Warriors,
I’ve got a sneak preview of things coming up in the beta for you to discuss. We still have lots of polish and bug fixing to do and we’re still wrestling with a few elements of the warrior abilities and talents so do not consider this an exhaustive list. As always, post any concerns or suggestions you have.
General
Enraged Assault redesigned, now Enraged Regeneration: You regenerate 30% of your total health over 10 sec. This ability consumes all Enrage effects and prevents any from affecting you for the full duration. Must be enraged to use. Cost 15 rage, 3 min cooldown.
Slam – We’re working to change this ability to suspend the swing timer when you are using the ability. In other words, if you’re .5 sec away from swinging your weapon when you start using Slam you’ll be .5 sec from swinging your weapon after Slam goes off.
Arms
Improved Charge now generates 5/10 rage.
Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.
Sudden Death and Trauma swapped locations.
Bladestorm now lasts 6 seconds, causing a whirlwind every second.
Protection
Toughness now also reduces duration of movement slowing effects by 10/20/30/40/50%.
Improved Sunder Armor renamed Puncture, reduced to 2 ranks for 1/2 rage cost reduction.
Improved Disarm reduced to 2 ranks, now reduces the cooldown of Disarm by 10/20 sec and increases damage taken by disarmed targets by 5/10%.
Improved Defensive Stance reduced to 2 ranks, now reduces spell damage taken by 3/6% and any block/parry/dodge has a 50/100% chance to enrage the warrior causing 5/10% more damage for 12 sec.
Vigilance will soon transfer the 10% threat lost to the warrior. It will also have 3 charges to curb using it on targets that are being hit constantly. We’re still polishing this element to get it to feel right.
(NEW) Warbringer is a new one point talent on Tier 9 that allows Charge to be used in combat. Did I mention the change to Improved Charge?
Critical Block now also increases your chance to critically hit with your Shield Slam by 5/10/15%.
Sword and Board no longer triggers when Shield Slam is used, but the chance to trigger has increased to 3/6/9/12/15%. Note these are not final numbers.
Fury
Intensify Rage and Precision swapped locations.
Enrage now increases damage done by 3/6/9/12/15%, limitation on number of attacks removed.
Improved Whirlwind now increases damage of Whirlwind by 10/20%, no longer reduces cooldown.
Furious Attacks changed to use PPM (procs per minute) to make it trigger at the same rate regardless of weapon speed. Note that dual-wielding and haste still improve your chances.
Titan’s Grip still needs a counterbalancing element, but what it will entail and how severe it will be is still being evaluated.
To answer a few questions:
Yes, I meant Furious Attacks, not Focused Attacks.
Some notes are already in the beta, some are not updated yet on the calculator so wanted to give additional visibility to anyone else reading the forums.
Warbringer: What we don't want to see is Charge becoming part of a tanking rotation. At the moment it will remain usable only in Battle Stance. An experimental idea to be sure.
Stance Dancing: The short answer here is we want just the right amount of it.
Final numbers are not in yet for the various talent trees. We want all trees to be viable in PvP and PvE so expect further number tuning across all classes/specs.
The important upcoming change to Vigilance is the threat transfer. 10% of the target's generated threat will go to your threat total.
Bladestorm consuming rage every second is a bug that's been fixed.
Upcoming Rogue Update
Quote from: Gamnin (Source)Here’s a quick update on some additional changes we’ve made over the weekend. Most of these, but not all, will be in the next beta build.
General
Cloak of Shadows cooldown changed to 1.5 min.
Disarm Trap range increased to 20 yds, cast time reduced to 1 sec, now requires stealth.
(NEW – Level 75) Tricks of the Trade: The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time. 30 sec cooldown. (Surprise! Yes, this is the new group/raid utility ability. We haven’t put any stacking protection on it yet but we’ll need one type of solution or other to prevent the need for 5 rogue Trick rotations. Note also that you cannot use this ability on yourself.)
Assassination
Vigor moved to Tier 3.
Relentless Strikes moved to Subtlety Tier 1, made 5 ranks for 4/8/12/16/20% chance.
Murder moved to Tier 6, now increases damage by 2/4%.
(NEW – Tier 7) Overkill: Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy.
Focused Attacks and Turn the Tables have swapped locations.
Master Poisoner moved to Tier 9, no longer increases chance to hit with poison attacks, now increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%. (This does not stack with the Paladin talent Heart of the Crusader.)
Hunger for Blood duration increased to 30 seconds.
Combat
Precision now also increases chance to hit with poison attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%.
Nerves of Steel will now reduce damage taken while stunned or feared by 15/30% rather than reducing duration.
Improved Sprint moved to Tier 4.
Blade Twisting now slows movement speed by 70%.
Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.
Throwing Specialization now also has a chance to interrupt target when Fan of Knives is used.
Unfair Advantage: Whenever you dodge an attack you strike back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon’s damage.
Stay of Execution removed, replaced with Blood Poisoning.
(NEW – Tier 9) Blood Poisoning: All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%.
Prey on the Weak now increases critical strike damage of all attacks.
Killing Spree is the new name for Murder Spree and should be working much better very soon.
Subtlety
Shadowstep will no longer be usable while rooted.
Elusiveness moved to Tier 3, now reduces cooldown of Cloak of Shadows by 15/30 sec.
Premeditation cooldown reduced to 20 sec.
Preparation no longer refreshes the cooldown to Premeditation.
Master of Deception reduced to 3 ranks.
Opportunity reduces to 2 ranks for 10/20%.
Camouflage reduced to 3 ranks for 5/10/15% speed and 2/4/6 sec off the cooldown of Stealth.
Initiative moved to Tier 4, increased to 33/66/100% chance.
Improved Ambush moved to Tier 4, reduced to 2 ranks for 25/50%.
Serrated Blades moved to Tier 3.
Wrongfully Accused replaced with Filthy Tricks.
(NEW – Tier 9) Filthy Tricks: Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 sec.
Slaughter from the Shadows now also reduces the energy cost of your Hemorrhage ability by 1/2/3/4/5.
Shadow Dance redesigned, now allows the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities all gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec. |
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GemSnake
Premium
join:2000-10-19
3rd layer
clubs:  | Hey there, Mr.Rogue, my new best friend, you trickster, you. Signed, Prot Warr.
--
"In a fight between you and the world, bet on the world." - Franz Kafka |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to quatra
said by quatra  :Yikes! Rogues counter attack with full weapon damage every time they dodge (unfair advantage - that is literally the title of the talent)!! I (as a warrior) won't stand a chance. Meh- how many combat PvP rogues do you really expect to run into?
I'm excited by the removal of the positioning requirement for mutilate and the prospect of a sub daggers ambush/backstab build being viable though. |
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AB_Lazy
@csun.edu
| reply to GemSnake
said by GemSnake :Hey there, Mr.Rogue, my new best friend, you trickster, you. Signed, Prot Warr. If Dirty Tricks is anything like Distract was for my hunter, my target will more likely to be the %*@#ing whiny clothy in party/raid that won't shut up. Ever seen Van in AV tanked by a Druid in treeform? Yeah, he didn't know he pulled Van either. 
But damn them making Shadowstep unusable while rooted. I thought the Sublety tree was all about rogue mobility? Why limit the mobility of key mobility-increasing talents? Meh. |
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Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Santa Maria, CA
clubs: | reply to quatra
Why are they giving rogues misdirect when they said they were completely revamping threat, making blessing of salvation unneeded.
--
Whats smells like blue? |
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crazediamond
That's Dr. Craze to you
Premium
join:2002-01-19
Germantown, MD | reply to quatra
If its any consolation, which I'm sure its not, we've spent the last few years being hit for a gazillion damage and a dot every time we dodge one of your attacks  |
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Forlin
join:2007-11-21
Anchorage, AK
edit:
September 3rd, @07:49PM
| reply to quatra
So we can properly punish people who run out on Van / Drek in response to hunters refusing to do so.
In all seriousness, it seems like threat is not so much going to be revamped as tweaked. If so then I love that my rogue is going to get one of my favourite hunter toys.
And thanks for the news Quatra, that's kind of made my day!
--edit--
On my hunter, testing my MD macros on random victims* in battlegrounds allowed me to confirm important issues.
For example would multi-shot pull three targets at once to my tank*.. obviously the answer is yes, but way back when I needed to be sure before trying it in raids or instances.
Or perhaps I wanted to find out exactly what kind of shot combo would pull a wing commander off the main tank to the off tank*.
*Usually anyone that annoyed me sufficiently in a BG. I pretty much never MD to people who don't provoke me in some way. Running out on Drek / Van would be an example of this. |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | I don't approve of moving Relentless Strikes to subtlety. |
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Shatter
join:2006-07-24
Waterford, MI | reply to quatra
Are the talent calcs updated? Recent changes to rogues has made me decide I might switch my rogue back to my main again |
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WoWjunky
join:2008-08-11
| reply to quatra
I have both a rogue and a couple of warriors. These changes look very interesting indeed from both sides. Bladestorm could be good for PvP but can you move while its active? Immune to fear as well right? And someone had mentioned you rarely run into combat rogues in PvP, well I have one and I can explain why. Its because you get bullied around by everyone. Dont have the survivability of sub rogues, really not much goin for combat rogues but its better for PvE (marginally). Anyways, keep the info rolling please, I have nothing else to read at work. |
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AB_Lazy
@csun.edu
| said by WoWjunky :Dont have the survivability of sub rogues, really not much goin for combat rogues but its better for PvE (marginally). They also lack the required mobility in PvP. While combat rogues hurt a whole hell of a lot more, a rogue that can't stay with their target deals much less DPS. |
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AB_Lazy
@csun.edu
| reply to Sithra
said by Sithra :I don't approve of moving Relentless Strikes to subtlety. Why not? All Sub Rogues already went that deep into Assasination to get this ability before. Moving that talent's not going to change anything. |
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WoWjunky
join:2008-08-11
| reply to quatra
I am also curious about the Titans Grip talent. Its in the fury tree? which I dont like much, but I am wondering how much of a nerf they will decide to put on it. I will likely level both my warriors up to 80 to see which is best for PvP and PvE. Charge in combat will also be nice, as then I can spam intercept and while it cools down spam charge, zippin around the battlefield getting owned by some warlock who DoT's me while some rogue stunlocks me while some priest heals the mage Im hacking at while some shammy shocks me to death while some hunters pet is all red and chewing on my arm. Ahh yes, PVP is so much fun. |
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GemSnake
Premium
join:2000-10-19
3rd layer
clubs: | Keep in mind that, at least at this point, Warbringer is a deep prot talent.
--
"In a fight between you and the world, bet on the world." - Franz Kafka |
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stonhinge
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
clubs:
| Titan's Grip is the 51 point fury talent.
Which makes me wish I could get my warrior into BT, so that I could get the "felhunter onna stick" staff and pair it with Illhoof's tentacled stranglestaff. And then dual-wield them for sheer amusement.
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When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets. |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07
| reply to AB_Lazy
said by AB_Lazy :said by Sithra :I don't approve of moving Relentless Strikes to subtlety. Why not? All Sub Rogues already went that deep into Assasination to get this ability before. Moving that talent's not going to change anything. Er? Ok, and what about rogues that aren't sub spec? |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07
edit:
September 5th, @04:46AM
| reply to stonhinge
said by stonhinge :Titan's Grip is the 51 point fury talent. Which makes me wish I could get my warrior into BT, so that I could get the "felhunter onna stick" staff and pair it with Illhoof's tentacled stranglestaff. And then dual-wield them for sheer amusement. Hahaha that would be brilliant. |
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Tehuno
join:2005-01-18
Bartlesville, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to stonhinge
said by stonhinge :Titan's Grip is the 51 point fury talent. Which makes me wish I could get my warrior into BT, so that I could get the "felhunter onna stick" staff and pair it with Illhoof's tentacled stranglestaff. And then dual-wield them for sheer amusement. cant dual wield polearms or staffs, only 2h maces/sword/axes. but a funny thought nonetheless :P |
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