[Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. in Canadian Broadband http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20963895 en Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:35:55 EDT Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:35:55 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21124091 Gophermofur : Hmm, well as the debate rages on, I'd like to add that I've used both Torrents and Usenet. While I prefer usenet 100%, I can see the merit in Torrents and certainly understand the whole "why pay more to download" argument from those supporting Torrents.

For me, there were several reasons for the switch from BT to usenet:

1. Speed. Torrents are throttled. Which, as some have mentioned, can be circumvented with some fancy setups.

2. Bandwidth - While on Rogers, I was worried about going over my cap, so using BT which requires two way traffic wasn't as appeling as Usenet where downloading is the only thing that counts towards your limit. Sure you can leech, but most of the argument here has been about private trackers where seeding ratio is 1:1. Downloading an 8 GB file is bad enough on a 60 GB rogers cap, having to upload 8GB as sacrafice/payment to the private tracker gods is even worse.

3. Privacy. Now, I'll admit that I don't know that much about this issue as I'm not 100% on how safe Usenet is either. It does have SSL encryption, but I was recently told that SSL may not do all that much for you in the long run. In any case, when I made the switch, Media Sentry was trying to hit every torrent file they could. There was need to use peer guardian and other IP blocking applications -- but there were reports that they didn't even work? At the time, Bit Torrent was the focal point of anti-piracy advocates. I even had a friend who got a letter from Rogers, originally sent from some anti-piracy organization indicating he had been downloading copyrighted material. Bit Torrent seemed like too much of a risk.

For those who use private trackers, you can't say you don't pay anything for Torrents, because you are paying with bandwidth. They simply force you to upload, in order to download. This may not be a problem while Teksavvy has 200GB/Unlimited caps, but what happens if your cap was a lot lower? Would it still be worth it?

I pay $11/month for Astraweb. I can get files as old as 150 days via SSL encryption. To ME (and I undstand everyone has their own needs) the $11/month is justified.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21124091 Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:48:43 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21122032 mishkin8 : actually the pre is the time from which the group offically releases the release until it is uploaded and done on the torrent site

I actually have access to the site that SCT gets most of it's content from but like I said I actually prefer sct lol

I use to be uploader for torrentbytes back when they didn't suck]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21122032 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:24:23 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088405 Stewy :
said by Ikarasu See Profile :

There is no "Winner", and you guys can argue.... but you wont change eachothers minds :P
One visit to b4e or prao and it will make instant believers for some :) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21088405 Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:01:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21079948 Ikarasu : Can we stop the arguing/trying to decide which is better? :P Both have their ups and down, there is no clear victor... It's all depending on what one person wants.

Some people use Rapidshare to get all their stuff... And they're quite happy with it. They see certain features about it as an advantage, while other people see them are... useless. But it's what makes them happy, and what they chose...

Think of it like windows and Linux. Windows has its advantages (Though its getting to be fewer and fewer everyday) And Linux has its own too. You can argue for days on end, and if someone is used to Windows, and it does everything they want it too...you wont convince them Linux is better, and same goes for someone who uses Linux. There is no "Winner", and you guys can argue/point out flaws till your blue in the face.... but you wont change eachothers minds :P ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21079948 Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:44:40 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078766 Guspaz :
said by Ravage_D See Profile :

Why add an additional $29.95 at all? You could only add $13.
The second line is to get double the speed; this applies no matter which way you download your stuff; you'll get double the speed with either BitTorrent or Usenet.

$61.15/month with one dry one wet? That's a damn good price.

I just don't see how you can add up to it as a wet premium is $29.95 and a dry loop premium is also $29.95 + a band rate of some form. Cheapest band rate is A at $7.95/month....brings the total monthly before tax to: $67.85.
2x Premium - $29.95
1x Dry loop fee - $7.25
2x Group Discount - $3
Subtotal: $61.15

Group discounts apply to 4 or more lines. If you have two lines, you need only find two other people to form a group.

Let's not forget that there is a set up fee too, and I'm assuming you have to get another modem, which easily brings initial fees over $100...
I'll assume that you already have the wet line and are adding a second, so the total fees are $19.99 (setup) + $35.15 (modem+shipping from Caneris) = $55.14 initial setup. Cheaper if you find a cheap modem locally.

But if you were to add the $13/month to the Teksavvy unlimited plan you'd only be at $53/month....no extra fees, no flashing firmwares, no doing complex set ups, no having to potentially purchase another router......no dealing with trying to get invited to private trackers.
But you'd only have 5/800 service instead of 10/1.6 service, which is the point of separate lines; you're paying that $13 regardless of how many lines you have.

Of course you think it's easy, I take it you designed the dang firmware (really cool btw)! But what about average people?
DSL_Ricer did pretty much all of the coding. I've done documentation, distribution, quality assurance, and collaborated on the user interface design.

We've designed the firmware to be dead-simply; it is no more complicated to use two lines than it is to use the regular Tomato firmware.

Bonding two lines is literally a matter of plugging the second line in, selecting multilink in a dropdown, and hitting save.

And let's not forget that Bell could in the future learn how to throttle even more so that there aren't any special ways to circumvent it...... I'm for Net Neutrality so let's hope that never happens.
We're under no illusions that MLPPP is throttle-proof, it's merely more difficult to throttle. Luckily, at this point, the primary intended purpose of Tomato/MLPPP is bonding multiple lines and not circumventing throttling (although it still does that too).

The point of this thread was to clear up the fact that I never see people using usenet.. I just couldn't understand it.
Usenet might be better in many respects, but don't underestimate peoples' willingness to put up with annoyances to get something free. To many people, it's just not worth the extra money. Or rather, there's the perception that it's not worth it.

But I still think for the majority of people, adding say a $13/month fee on top of what is normally paid is easier (not only on the pocket but also on time/effort) than trying to shell out for another connection. That's why I don't agree with your argument about the each dollar etc. etc..
We used to wait in line for fserves to get stuff for free that we could pay for if we walked to the store and rented a DVD; people are willing to put up with a lot to save money.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078766 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 21:14:39 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078063 vitesse : Your probably right... 25% would be more for uuencode... I stoped to use newsgroup a the beginning of yenc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21078063 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:04:12 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077888 Ravage_D : Why add an additional $29.95 at all? You could only add $13.

And it appears that I was mis-informed about the MLPPP with single lines, that's pretty cool.

And you're right about the extra two lines existing in the house! Assuming it's not ancient as hell (one of the apartments I rented was really messed up..if we wanted two lines they would have to run another from the pole).

$61.15/month with one dry one wet? That's a damn good price.

I just don't see how you can add up to it as a wet premium is $29.95 and a dry loop premium is also $29.95 + a band rate of some form. Cheapest band rate is A at $7.95/month....brings the total monthly before tax to: $67.85.

Let's not forget that there is a set up fee too, and I'm assuming you have to get another modem, which easily brings initial fees over $100...

Maybe they have better deals where you are but I'm just going by what I'm reading on the website. Also I could be wrong in how they set up Dry Loop and the need for extra modem.

But if you were to add the $13/month to the Teksavvy unlimited plan you'd only be at $53/month....no extra fees, no flashing firmwares, no doing complex set ups, no having to potentially purchase another router......no dealing with trying to get invited to private trackers.

Of course you think it's easy, I take it you designed the dang firmware (really cool btw)! But what about average people?

It's a matter of priorities, but again..I'm not holding a gun to your head here and trying to get you, Guspaz, specifically to change (it's not all about you).

Other people have different situations. They can weigh out the pros and cons themselves.

And let's not forget that Bell could in the future learn how to throttle even more so that there aren't any special ways to circumvent it...... I'm for Net Neutrality so let's hope that never happens.

The point of this thread was to clear up the fact that I never see people using usenet.. I just couldn't understand it.

I've learned a lot throughout discussion here and I've seen a lot of viewpoints. It all boils down to this: it's a matter of priorities and situations.

You don't seem willing to admit this Guspaz, and I'm not sure why.

I'm willing to say I can see why people still use Torrents. It makes sense to me now after discussion.

But I still think for the majority of people, adding say a $13/month fee on top of what is normally paid is easier (not only on the pocket but also on time/effort) than trying to shell out for another connection. That's why I don't agree with your argument about the each dollar etc. etc..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077888 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:23:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077758 Guspaz : Except, you don't need a second line to circumvent throttling with MLPPP. You can enable it on a single line.

Support for MLPPP bonding in Tomato/MLPPP was added because we thought it'd be relatively easy to do and provide big benefits, not because it was required for the original intended purpose of the firmware.

It also doesn't cost anything to run an extra phone line into your house; you start out with at least two, since there are two pairs.

Estimated cost for two Premium lines (400GB is plenty for me) is $61.15/mth before tax assuming one is wet. Why add another $13?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077758 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:54:20 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077728 Ravage_D : *sighs* We already went over this, but if you must, I'll point it out again...

Cost for one unlimited DSL line from Teksavvy: $39.95/month
Cost for second DSL line from Teksavvy required in order to circumvent throttling practices: Aditional $39.95/month

Cost to run extra phone line into your house: ?? Probably a lot.
Cost to purchase another modem: ?? Depends what you get. Also significant.

This doesn't include extra cost for dry loop.

So, you can spend $80 a month just for your connection NOT counting all the additional fees you have to pay to set it up as well as potentially having to buy a new router that will support MLPPP.

Or, you can use your existing connection and spend an additional $13/month for access.

You can't use the financial thing here. Unless you're fortunate enough not to be throttled (which I don't think exists in residential Ontario).

Your face when Bell figures out how to shape the MLPPP packets? Priceless.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21077728 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:46:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076838 Guspaz :
said by Phorkster See Profile :

Err, whats your point? According to a quick search of Usenet, The Dark Knight DVDSCR was posted 5 days ago, PrisonBreak S04E01 was 6 days ago..

So lets look at the scorecard:

Need Seeders:
Usenet 1 Torrent 0

Throttled:
Usenet 2 Torrent 0

PrivateTracker Access To Get The Latest And Best:
Usenet 3 Torrent 0

I could go on, but does it really matter? You are going to use what your going to use.
Have to spend at least $1:
Usenet 3 Torrent 1

Have to spend at least $2:
Usenet 3 Torrent 2

Have to spend at least $3:
Usenet 3 Torrent 3

Have to spend at least $4:
Usenet 3 Torrent 4

Have to spend at least $5:
Usenet 3 Torrent 5

Have to spend at least $6:
Usenet 3 Torrent 6

Have to spend at least $7:
Usenet 3 Torrent 7

Have to spend at least $8:
Usenet 3 Torrent 8

Have to spend at least $9:
Usenet 3 Torrent 9

Have to spend at least $10:
Usenet 3 Torrent 10

Have to spend at least $11:
Usenet 3 Torrent 11

Have to spend at least $12:
Usenet 3 Torrent 12

Have to spend at least $13:
Usenet 3 Torrent 13

A pretty clear victory for torrents if I do say so myself.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21076838 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:57:16 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074136 Phorkster : Err, whats your point? According to a quick search of Usenet, The Dark Knight DVDSCR was posted 5 days ago, PrisonBreak S04E01 was 6 days ago..

So lets look at the scorecard:

Need Seeders:
Usenet 1 Torrent 0

Throttled:
Usenet 2 Torrent 0

PrivateTracker Access To Get The Latest And Best:
Usenet 3 Torrent 0

I could go on, but does it really matter? You are going to use what your going to use.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21074136 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:59:16 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073778 Ravage_D : LOL ;) I should have expected a reply from you guspaz.

Perhaps I should have said, if you think there's a learning curve then you've been mis-informed?

I guess it's all just up to interpretation. Learning curve and understanding aren't necessarily the same thing although they are related.

You can understand how to drive a car but that doesn't make you a Nascar driver.

That's my take on it which could differ from others. Oh well, I'll clarify:

What I meant was merely that there's this sort of thought about usenet that it's complex and difficult to use (hence, steep learning curve). This is false because if you're pointed at the right site or have the right program, it's just as easy as using torrents. Admittedly there might be an extra step or two in there (entering your usenet server and connecting to it) but hey..it's sure a lot easier than successfully circumventing some form of throttling.

And to point people: nzbmatrix.com with either alt.binz or newsleecher :P

But enough of useless word wars -- this has nothing to do with the topic and I wont entertain it any further.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073778 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:39:04 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073777 anon : I found that image on imageshack.us

im on that site aswell. its fast as fuck. I always max out ym 100Mbit connection]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073777 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:38:45 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073761 anon : Usenet doesn't get their shit first. sites like SCT, SCC, FTN do.



pre=the time it takes for the release to get uploaded to the torrent site from the scene ftp server.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21073761 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:35:28 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070751 Guspaz :
said by Ravage_D See Profile :

Well, if you think there's a learning curve to them, then you clearly don't understand how to use them...
Now, take a minute and think about what you just said... You just agreed with him.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21070751 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:14:07 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069982 Ravage_D : Usenet is for suckers and has a learning curve?

Well, if you think there's a learning curve to them, then you clearly don't understand how to use them...and shouldn't be saying they're for suckers because that's ignorant!

Anyway, as I said before, there are tons of unique situations where people find torrents great (Private trackers/ISPs that don't throttle etc. etc.) but my target audience was the average Canadian who is throttled to hell by Rogers/Bell

Never thought the thread would get this big! There's been some great debate :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21069982 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 08:47:14 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21066271 Phorkster : Suckers? I guess if I find everything I need in one place and not have to worry about Seeders and private invites to 3r33t sites, then call me a sucker.

I'm not aware of this learning curve...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21066271 Fri, 05 Sep 2008 23:50:33 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056258 mishkin8 : there is no issues with my torrents and i actually prefer ScT to topsites because it's easier to see whats new, whats popular and max my 2 dsl's, good scene sites block too many connections (I get timeouts when connections fuck up too)

Usenet is for suckers, and it's got a good learning curve to it]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21056258 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 11:35:14 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21055618 Ikarasu :
said by vitesse See Profile :

if I remember well newsgroup add a much as 25% overhead to file as it's need to encode the files in base64 or yenc, so you download more bite for the same file than in torrent. and torrent is the prefered transfer protocol for open source project like Linux distribution.
hmm? YenC which is the standard that most groups/sites post to Newsgroups, have 1-2% overhead. I believe your thinking of the olden days when people used UUencode, back when it was 30-40%. Nowadays... their is less overhead... And without the need to upload, You use far less bandwidth then you would if you used Torrent.

Not sure on the specifics of Torrents... but constantly contacting trackers for peers, updating them, ect, it's probably around more (But not by much). And the more torrents you have, the more overhead... I believe you can get up to 15-20% overhead if your downloading 10 torrents at once (which I doubt most people do... :P) Probably around 2-3%, And their is also bad hashes. I have: 1.16 MB on a 700 mb file, 9 on a 20 GB file.

Bah.. point is, Comparing overhead... it's such a small difference between the two it doesn't matter. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21055618 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 09:28:31 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21054715 Phorkster :
said by elwoodblues See Profile :

While I can't speak for Astraweb today, I did use them sometime ago.

In my experience no evening/weekend support.
poor retention

Just a bad experience overall.
Oh and your 11/month is at 1mbit speed, a total waste of time.
I get 1MB/s +. I max my connection.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21054715 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 01:16:14 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21054707 Phorkster :
said by IIgs See Profile :

Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?), find and hope all the segments are there, and if not try and repair it with PAR files. Searching for something particular is rather a pain too. I'm sure there's better options than NewsBin Pro (what I'm using at the moment) but because of all that's involved, I rarely use my Usenet connection.

Eh? DL all the headers? Time to get out of the 90s bro. Newsleecher w/Supersearch == your friend. Search for what you want, right click and click SmartSelect, it selects all the files of the same name. Click on DL, and watch as Newsleecher, DLs verifies the pars, joins them, unRars them and leaves a fresh ISO or other in a directory you want... Doesn't get much easier than that.

They both have their advantages, but for me its Usenet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21054707 Thu, 04 Sep 2008 01:13:15 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21054038 st7860 : if you are lucky enough to be in Britsh Columbia, then torrents are fun.

With TELUS ADSL 6.0 for $40 a month(a landline might be needed otherwise you pay an extra $10/mo dry line fee) you can torrent and seed as much as you like, 24/7 with no caps, no throttling, nothing at all. I use TPB and various private torrent sites for a total of over 300g every month. download speeds are about 600KB per second, with seeding speeds up to 90KB per second.

(with any other telus package other than the 6.0 plan, this will NOT work since there are strict limits)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21054038 Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:45:50 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21026855 nanook :
said by Black Moon See Profile :

said by Stewy See Profile :

The other problem to the private torrents you are at the mercy of very limited seeding.
Don't you mean public torrents? Private ones are usually overseeded.
I would think so.

As for the PBS Nature program, I guess it depends on what you use BT for. I mostly download TV programs, including the occasional PBS and BBC documentaries. Since I have never had problems finding a particular show that I want to watch, I conclude that this particular program is an anomaly. By itself, that is hardly sufficient justification to spend $10 or more per month extra for Usenet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21026855 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:10:35 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21026385 Black Moon :
said by Stewy See Profile :

The other problem to the private torrents you are at the mercy of very limited seeding.
Don't you mean public torrents? Private ones are usually overseeded.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21026385 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:49:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21025298 Stewy : with all due respect, please show me a link to one public torrent with at least 1 seed.

I went to multiple torrent searches and couldn't find one public torrent including pizza.

I'm just saying that this is an example of the downside of torrents. When if saw this posted at Rlslog it took me under a minute to goto binsearch to create a nzb file and start d/l it.

The other problem to the private torrents you are at the mercy of very limited seeding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21025298 Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:00:53 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21020981 Guspaz :
said by Stewy See Profile :

another classic example of the downside of torrents. and then people complain that there's no seeds.
A simple search on pizzatorrents turned up that exact 720p torrent on a variety of public torrent sites (mininova included)...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21020981 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:18:56 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21019104 Stewy : another classic example of the downside of torrents. and then people complain that there's no seeds.
--
It's all... part of the plan.
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21019104 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:10:19 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21017419 vitesse : if I remember well newsgroup add a much as 25% overhead to file as it's need to encode the files in base64 or yenc, so you download more bite for the same file than in torrent. and torrent is the prefered transfer protocol for open source project like Linux distribution. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21017419 Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:33:57 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21016196 anon : Torrentleech needs an invitation to sign up could you invite me some how? As I'm unsure how to go about getting an Invite any other way.
My email Address is
Bob_is_here@rogers .com

Thank you for your time and hopefully that Invite

Bob]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21016196 Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:09:13 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21011752 cbp :
said by elwoodblues See Profile :

While I can't speak for Astraweb today, I did use them sometime ago.

In my experience no evening/weekend support.
poor retention

Just a bad experience overall.
Oh and your 11/month is at 1mbit speed, a total waste of time.
Trying support right now. Let us hope that it works ok.

Retention wise I got a 90+ day old file. Didn't need anything older.
It is Unlimited DSL which has no speed limit (a special). It maxes out my 7Mbps connection.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21011752 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:50:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21009396 elwoodblues :
said by cbp See Profile :

said by elwoodblues See Profile :

said by Black Moon See Profile :

I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content.
Huh? I pay Usenetserver 13/month unlimited???
I pay Astraweb 11/month unlimited.
While I can't speak for Astraweb today, I did use them sometime ago.

In my experience no evening/weekend support.
poor retention

Just a bad experience overall.
Oh and your 11/month is at 1mbit speed, a total waste of time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21009396 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:10:22 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21008412 Stewy :
said by pstewart See Profile :

just to clarify - some ISP's provide premium newsgroups at no charge.
I wouldn't call it "premium" they probably buy it from some other provider but host it on their own systems. The quality will never be the same as a real provider.

BTW I just got an email from newsguy yesterday saying that they will move next week. It will only get better.

"This move will provide a highly robust Internet connection and vastly improved peering for your route to NewsGuy. A major increase in bandwidth resources, additional front-end servers and upgraded hardware, together with a 30% increase in Usenet articles retention will accommodate faster throughput and an enriched Usenet experience."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21008412 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:55:52 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21006632 pstewart : Umm... just to clarify - some ISP's provide premium newsgroups at no charge. It's not super popular and I'm not plugging anyone (I work for an ISP) but everyone gets caught up in the $$$ factor here sometimes and wanted to provide a few thoughts.... it's looked as a value add for some ISP's....
--
Nexicom High Speed Internet - »www.nexicom.net/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21006632 Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:57:09 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21004588 cbp :
said by elwoodblues See Profile :

said by Black Moon See Profile :

I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content.
Huh? I pay Usenetserver 13/month unlimited???
I pay Astraweb 11/month unlimited.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21004588 Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:32:44 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21003390 elwoodblues :
said by Black Moon See Profile :

I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content.
Huh? I pay Usenetserver 13/month unlimited???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21003390 Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:39:25 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20986885 Last Parade : The clear answer is not for one or the other, but both. I will try usenet first because I know it will be a fast, reliable download. If I can't find it there, I will look for torrents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20986885 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:00:53 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20985838 Black Moon : I really despise private bittorrent trackers for a host of reasons, so I won't be searching around for invites to any of them.

I'll see about newsgroups once I'm in France, because signing up now is useless. Thanks for your help.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20985838 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:24:22 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20985010 Ikarasu : Teksavvy (Presuming your still on them) Provides free binary newsgroups if you pay $4 a month for a static IP. It's limited at 1.5M though I believe.

Flacs are one thing I miss about torrents tbh. They don't have flacs... but nowheres near as much as Oink did. I hear waffles has a lot... but sadly it's private, and since I got out of the BT scene... not very easy to find someone with invites. You might have better luck though...and I imagine they'd have it in flac :P ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20985010 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:20:29 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984469 Black Moon :
said by Stewy See Profile :

A "good" and "free" binary newsgroup doesn't exist, if you want something decent you'll need a provider.
Alright, how about one that is free? Speed is less important to me than money, though I am open to suggestions for paid newsgroups with good content.

Then again, almost all my needs are either satisfied by torrents or eMule. Unless someone can find Quincy Jones' 'Basie & Beyond' as FLAC or APE on newsgroups - and a few other rarities - I don't think I'd need to bother.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984469 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:34:28 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984432 Stewy :
said by Black Moon See Profile :

If anyone knows good, free newsgroups
A "good" and "free" binary newsgroup doesn't exist, if you want something decent you'll need a provider.
--
It's all... part of the plan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984432 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:28:30 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984419 nanook :
said by Stewy See Profile :

You didn't show how many seeds there were and since It's a private tracker I can't even get to it. The listing may be there but unless there's a seed forget it.
Well you did say "private or public" ;)

But since you ask, it is seeded (1.8 copies available) and I am downloading it as we speak.

(Yes, it could be seeded better, but I am in no hurry.)
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984419 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:26:26 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984413 Black Moon :
said by Ikarasu See Profile :

You use ubuntu and have trouble with newsgroups? :P If your willing to take the plunge and go linux, I'd say newsgroups will be a breeze for you.
Well, I have been using Linux since 99 at work, but always had Windows at home because of games. Now that I can run most games in Linux as well as the latter constantly improving, I made the switch to Linux last year. I'm as happy as a pig in shit. I could never go back to Windows. My wife feels the same way (and she's not very computer savvy).

As for newsgroups, as I said, I just have not given it a try for many years. If anyone knows good, free newsgroups that don't impose too small caps, I'm sure I could be tempted.

quote:
I only toy around in linux, dont use it on any of my main comps, so not sure which are good newsgroup programs. Find one that does nzbs, then goto some free nzb site. Then it works like torrents... you search for what you want, dl the nzb, hit open, and it should work.


NZBs?

quote:
Better yet... find one that has a built in supersearch function, and it dumbs down newsgroups so theyre easier then P2P like Kazaa/Limewire/Naspter.


Will have a look soon.

quote:
Theres also a pretty good $12 a month provider, ngroups.net, unlimited downloads and really cheap. Maxes out my Internet connection too.
America only, or also from Europe? I'll be moving to France in two weeks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984413 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:24:37 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984372 Stewy :
said by nanook See Profile :

Do you also get previews before you download.
Yes you can preview a usenet post, just d/l the first part or parts and unrar it and view it with VLC no problem.

You didn't show how many seeds there were and since It's a private tracker I can't even get to it. The listing may be there but unless there's a seed forget it.

Unlike p2p if it's there I'm guaranteed to get it, no private begging, pleading, groveling, ratios or favors in return required.
--
It's all... part of the plan.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984372 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:17:11 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984230 nanook :
said by Stewy See Profile :

there are some things that no matter how fast or good or free torrents are that you simply can't get on torrents whether private or public for which you can get with ease on usenet.
Oh? Is that so? Do you also get previews before you download. (I have obscured the photos here because the subject matter is NSFW.)
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984230 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:52:13 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984203 Ravage_D : Just a few more comments! Thanks again for posting guys and I will definitely look into Newsleecher. Thanks Ikarasu!

Guspaz:

Yes, we understand that in your situation you're most likely paying for two DSL lines which I would imagine are running in MLPPP through most likely a router with Tomato firmware. We also understand that you've done all the work required to circumvent the throttling on what I assume are Bell lines and that you're actively maintaining your ratios on the private sites that you're a member of. Of course I could be completely wrong in this assumption but that's just my best guess.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head here and telling you to use Usenet. If I had the same amazing setup as you did.. you're right. I'd never use Usenet either.

Just please recognize that your situation is not that common and there are a lot of people out there who perhaps can't afford a second DSL line (but can afford an extra $13/month) or who don't know how to get in to such a great set up.

I'm on Cable :P There's no switching to DSL for me, even though that temptation is great.....

gnumantsc: Well, this is a good point. Although when I did a search for some iso releases, there are a few. But definitely not nearly as good of a selection as would be found distributed using the torrent protocol.

However, realistically, and I don't want to just pull some ridiculous percentage out of nowhere so I wont. But I'd reckon (haha) that the vast majority of torrent traffic is some form of "illegal" file transfer. Of course once again, I could be completely wrong -- I'm no traffic expert.

For those people unfortunately throttled when trying to get the distros, I guess they'll just have to download off of the mirror sites or universities that host the iso releases..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984203 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:47:36 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984175 Stewy :
said by Guspaz See Profile :

25GB for $10? That's barely anything, and once again, torrents are FREE. I can also max out my DSL line(s) at ~1100KB/s on a private tracker. so why should I pay $10 or $25 for something I'm already getting for free?
Let me get to the point, there are some things that no matter how fast or good or free torrents are that you simply can't get on torrents whether private or public for which you can get with ease on usenet.

Usenet and torrents have their good and bad points, I use usenet %98 of the time over torrents, and for $8.35/month for 50Gigs which rolls over it's not that bad.
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20984175 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:40:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983992 gnumantsc : But it seems that we are missing the point that it seems you are talking about illegal files here on Usenet.

What about downloading linux distros which mainly use p2p? I don't see the latest distro being offered on newsgroups. I would be extremely surprised if they were offered.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983992 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:00:21 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983393 Guspaz : 25GB for $10? That's barely anything, and once again, torrents are FREE. I can also max out my DSL line(s) at ~1100KB/s on a private tracker.

I've heard the arguments that private trackers are hard to get on, so they don't count. Except I'm already ON various private trackers, so why should I pay $10 or $25 for something I'm already getting for free?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20983393 Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:35:42 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982683 CingKrab : You don't have to go unlimited. You could purchase a block account from Astraweb or Usenet News. Astraweb is 25 GB/$10 or 110 GB/$25. I'm using Shaw out west and it can max out my connection at ~1100 kB/s, which is a helluva lot faster than what I get from torrents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982683 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:08:57 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982516 Ikarasu : Well, it's only $4 on Teksavvy...decent retention, just slow downloads.

$12 is probably a lot if you get a few shows... but when you think of it, $12 isn't even the price of 1 blu ray. But if you can get it on Torrent for free, I see your point.

Ravage_D:

Since your getting into newsgroups... you might want to give Newsleecher a try. They have a 30 day trial where you can test supersearch out. It's raw header downloads, and a lot more advanced the Alt.Binz search, or any nzb site. $30 for a year if you decide to buy it, But well worth it. It's also very very "Nub" friendly, I recommend it to everyone I know that still uses limewire and all the Virii filled P2P Stuff.... and they've never looked back.

And yeah, theres probably a ton of HDTV on Newsgroups, I just recently got my TV so I haven't played around with it yet.

I'll say 1 more thing in defense of torrent - RSS feeds. Can set up Utorrent to auto download your shows as they're posted, set and forget... (Can do it with newsgroups too, but it's complicated to setup).

Both are great... so why use just 1 :P I'm sure you'll find that you'll not be giving up on torrents just yet. Glad you discovered newsgroups though :D Lets hope it stays a bit obscure, the more people that use it, the more attention it gets, which is always a bad thing for these kind of services :( ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982516 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:33:24 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982380 Guspaz : To me, the big thing is that usenet is not free, while torrents (even private sites) are. If I'm not going to download/upload enough for my cap to matter, I'd rather not pay extra for something that I can already get.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20982380 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:02:04 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981437 Ravage_D : Thanks everybody for your comments! This is actually the type of debate I was looking for.

I honestly think the difficulty in getting started is what prevents people from using newsgroups -- but it's all a matter of what programs/websites you use.

There's a program called Alt.Binz, which is what I've been using, that has a built in search function for several sites that allow you to one-click download or stream as you download.

There are also sites like nzbmatrix.com which host nzb files for you to download and import into Alt.Binz (or other programs) allowing you to again, one click download from the web almost exactly like torrents.

Also I know people on this forum are more likely to be advanced computer users -- but a lot of my thoughts on newsgroups apply for the basic everyday user (like my house mates for instance).

Several people on here admitted straight up that torrents are great with their private trackers/sites. Okay, great. So you have this private tracker that requires 1:1 or similar ratios. I don't think everyday joe-blow could use it simply because they can't get a membership or whatnot. Even if they were willing to pay for it.

Anybody can get complete access to the newsgroups with their subscription to the news server.

So sure, if you're using an advanced set up to get around throttling (MLPPP) or using private/exclusive tracking sites then great. Go for torrents. But I'm saying average people wont bother.

And does it really matter how fast a piece of content gets posted? If it's one hour on Usenet vs. half an hour on torrent site X. Again, for those advanced users who really care -- fine again! But most average people don't.

The other very strong argument is the bandwidth usage. Usenet is only downstream! So for people (like me..and many others) who have bandwidth caps that include both up and down, I can get up to twice as much content.

Sure torrents may have more obscure things. But again -- a lot of average user only wants last nights episode of X or last weeks episode of this or whatever. Guaranteed to be on Usenet. Perhaps half an hour after it appears on torrents but then again, you're maxing out your connection speed instantly on usenet.. you may save some time.

And as for Wargames in HD, I too found it on Usenet (the 1080i version), but I failed to find it on isohunt or mininova or thepiratebay. Looks like you had to turn to one of those exclusive private sites again. But that's fine.

I agree completely with Ikarasu. It's not whether one protocol is better or worse than the other they both have applications. I'm just saying that after using Usenet and seeing how great it is, I didn't understand why others haven't been using it. I have a better idea of it now that we've had this discussion.

But I still feel that people (again, people I consider average -- my friends and whatnot who aren't computer experts or well versed in the internet) should just forget the nightmare that is torrents and throttling and just go with Usenet.

Ikarasu, you'd actually be surprised how much HD is available on Usenet! Check out nzbmatrix and filter movies by HD. I've a PS3 which streams great and all the PS3AVCHD releases are out on Usenet (no need for conversion).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20981437 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:01:10 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20980394 TFArchive : I too prefer newsgroups, I've used them for over 10 years now, before p2p really existed. I think the reason people are hesitant to use newsgroups is because it takes a bit of setup/learning to use them, although with nzbs and programs like grabit it is as easy as torrents.

Public Torrents are great for selection but the problem with them is they tend to die pretty quickly, so if you find a torrent that is over 30 days old you are likely to have problems getting decent speeds or completing it.

Private trackers are different as they have dedicated people seeding long term things to boost their ratio. With private trackers it is really hard to keep the 1:1 ratio with a residential connection as by the time you finish the file so have 100 other people and the power seeders are still giving the most amount of bandwidth, so you'll be seeding for days if you download anything but small stuff.

I rarely use torrents and when I do I use my 100mbit dedicated server as I know I can get to 1:1 ratio with that.

For newsgroups and with the advent of nzb files it is un-necessary to download headers unless you are looking for some un-indexed stuff. Once an episode is posted it doesn't usually take long to be indexed at the major nzb sites so you're downloading right away. Yes torrents are up a bit quicker in most cases but it is a trade off, do you want 0-sec pre's or are you okay with waiting 5-10 minutes for popular stuff (TV shows) to be posted to newsgroups where you don't have to keep a ratio.

Yes, newsgroups cost money, but for the amount of time I spend dealing a with downloads it is far easier for me to tag a bunch of nzbs and let newsbin download for days. It autopars and can even extract stuff for me if I choose. With torrents you have to manage which one gets how much bandwidth and stop seeding 1:1 files so the others can try to get to 1:1.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20980394 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:23:19 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20980207 Ikarasu : You use ubuntu and have trouble with newsgroups? :P If your willing to take the plunge and go linux, I'd say newsgroups will be a breeze for you.

I only toy around in linux, dont use it on any of my main comps, so not sure which are good newsgroup programs. Find one that does nzbs, then goto some free nzb site. Then it works like torrents... you search for what you want, dl the nzb, hit open, and it should work.

Better yet... find one that has a built in supersearch function, and it dumbs down newsgroups so theyre easier then P2P like Kazaa/Limewire/Naspter.

Theres also a pretty good $12 a month provider, ngroups.net, unlimited downloads and really cheap. Maxes out my Internet connection too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20980207 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:49:25 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20979097 Black Moon :
said by Guspaz See Profile :

Usenet costs money, torrents are free.
Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet.

There's no comparison. Free and greater selection versus expensive and limited selection.

I also generally do not have problems with fake or spam torrents.
I second this, minus Guspaz's love for private trackers (which basically go against the filesharing principle even though they claim they don't).

I don't have much experience with usenet. Tried it some years ago, found it difficult to set up and find content (someone know a good guide on setting this up in Ubuntu?) and I don't like paying a monthly $10/mo for some 10 GB or so of content.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20979097 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:29:32 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978650 elwoodblues : Download headers? Never hear of NZB's? Or use the search function most NSP offer?

I had a GS once, hated it.. went back to my //e]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978650 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:02:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978019 pstewart : Personally, I agree ... everyone will have an opinion here based on their requirements. And some ISP's bundle Usenet with their services as a value add which can be very nice....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20978019 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:36:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20977815 Ikarasu : Wargames 1, or 2? I wouldnt trust binsearch for everything.

I just did a "Supersearch" and found "WarGames 1080i 50Hz-HYPERLOVE"

Not 720, but its there.

I just got a HDTV, so not so sure about HD results. But I'll agree, a HDTV private site probably has way more results/faster relases, simply because of the huge base of people who are there for nothing but HDTV.

Lets just say both of them have their conveniences. I've found quite a few movies on Usenet that I couldn't get on Torrent, and I've also found a few on torrent that I couldn't get on usenet. Theres nothing wrong with either, it all just depends on what the user is looking for.

quote:
Dont tell me that Usenet gets stuff before torrents because that's absolutely false. i always max out my connection on ScT and SCC (2 of the best private torrent trackers). I dont pay for piracy.


You listed 1 release. BT does have some topsite releasers... but not every single release gets released to torrent instantly. Some Topsite groups release to usenet also... with 100M up, they get posted almost instantly to newsgroup sites (As well as torrent sites).

Binsearch lists Eureka as being posted 2 hours ago (Sadly it doesn't do down to the minute info, and my news client doesn't either) And SCT lists it as 2 hours 20 mins ago. I'm willing to be within 1-2 mins of eachother, they were posted to both.

Theyre both about equal in new content... BT has the benefit of having more rare stuff then newsgroups, And Usenet has the benefit of privacy.

I personally use both. And at $12 a month for unlimited downloads, I don't really see it as a waste. If nothing else then for music... Don't get me wrong, music is great on BT, but finding singles is annoying, and having to go through albums and select 1 file is much more work... With newsgroups you type in the song name in your client (If it supports supersearch) Hit download, and take away a few steps. Useless for most, really nice for me, as I said... it's a user preference, and I think it'd be stupid to say 1 is more superior then the other, the end result is usually the same no matter which service you go with. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20977815 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:14:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20977744 Guspaz : Fails.

I recently downloaded a 720p copy of the movie WarGames. Interested to see if I could find it on usenet with "binsearch", I told it to search for "wargames 720p" in the last 120 days.

Zero results. Looks like you can't get the movie in HD on usenet.

So, the FIRST movie I try to find on usenet isn't there. I'll stick to torrents, thanks. Not that you can find that on a public torrent site either. But it shows that in my case, I'm better off sticking where I am; using private and public torrent sites. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20977744 Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:26:02 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20977330 IIgs :
said by Stewy See Profile :

said by IIgs See Profile :

(I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account

Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?)
on the first part I posted my first Usenet post in December 1992 I even found it in Google. I also use to work with VMS so I know where your coming from.
Looked in Google, mine was June 1992. Ironically, I asked a question about Usenet retention in that post. :) (and two days earlier, going by dates, I inadvertently posted a binary to the same discussion group. A piece of software only a few kilobytes large but it's now preserved forever I guess!). Just brought back a flash back memory, to post a binary back then I would actually open the EDT editor in VAX and do a direct screen dump into the editor, then save it. Yeah, trying watching hundreds of pieces of UUencoded data, scroll onto screen line by line, at 2400 baud! And hope there was no line noise from beginning to end. Fun!). :D
on the second part, I don't have to d/l all headers. For example I goto binsearch.net (free) and do a search on what I need and then create a nzb file and then use agent to import and start d/l. I can search/find/start d/l in under a minute.
Ack! How did I not know this? You know what, I just tried it and can't believe how easy that was! I may just switch back over to Usenet thanks to your tip--seriously! One thing, is there a way to see how large the complete data file will be? (i.e. say I'm looking for a video files exactly 700MB, as opposed to a poorly encoded version that's 500-something). Wow, thanks for this!

One of the things working against torrents is that you have to deal with Private trackers which is not the case for usenet.
That has definitely been a big turn off. I'll find something I really want, and then get that dreaded message about it being private... :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20977330 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:51:12 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976896 anon : BitTorrent on VPS : best solution ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20976896 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:14:33 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973706 quickbeam : Th..r..o..ttle...what's that?

I'm enjoying fulls speeds up/down.

Cheers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973706 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:25:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973621 anon : The point isn't whether torrents are better or worse Usenet. The point is Bell shouldn't be throttling. We don't have account with bell. If there wasn't such a thing as P2P downloading, Bell would be trying to subvert Usenet access for binary downloading.

KAPISH?!?!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973621 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:10:24 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973171 Stewy :
said by IIgs See Profile :

(I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account

Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?)
on the first part I posted my first Usenet post in December 1992 I even found it in Google. I also use to work with VMS so I know where your coming from.

on the second part, I don't have to d/l all headers. For example I goto binsearch.net (free) and do a search on what I need and then create a nzb file and then use agent to import and start d/l. I can search/find/start d/l in under a minute.

One of the things working against torrents is that you have to deal with Private trackers which is not the case for usenet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20973171 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:34:38 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20970455 IIgs : I actually much prefer Torrents, and I'm speaking as a veteran user of Usenet (I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account, manually saving each segment, downloading it, and then using UUdecoder software on the computer side. Apple II's even had their own format called BinScii). :)

Torrents are just so quick and simple. Click on the link, select a download location--DONE.

Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?), find and hope all the segments are there, and if not try and repair it with PAR files. Searching for something particular is rather a pain too. I'm sure there's better options than NewsBin Pro (what I'm using at the moment) but because of all that's involved, I rarely use my Usenet connection.

I have free Giganews access with my current ISP, but only 4 streams at about 15K/sec. Been extremely happy with Torrents, except that they seem to be getting throttled lately to ~30K/sec at different times of the day (gotta love Bell Canada for messing with third party ISPs). That's the only reason I'd thought of switching back to Usenet recently...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20970455 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:14:55 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969608 Glove : Torrents have and will change the world]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969608 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:46:18 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969525 cbp :
said by Guspaz See Profile :

I disagree. HDBits has a far better collection of 720p and 1080p content than Usenet does. Usenet might have most of that content as the 1080i or 1080p raws, but the HDBits community themselves are the ones that re-encode them down to DVD5 and DVD9 sizes at 720p and 1080p. They're fanatical about quality, and scoff at the scene encodes as being shoddy. And their content is only available on the site, since it's private.
Keyword: Private.

Most of the people can't get in since it is private and it is hard to get invites.
You also have to keep a good ratio of at least 1:1.
With current internet connection of 10:1 download to upload ratio, it becomes almost impossible to maintain a good standing.
Now add throttling to that and it all goes to bell hell.

Both protocols are good if you use them. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969525 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:32:29 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969253 MisawaGQ : Most everything is on usenet at some point, but to get older things, you need torrents or luck. Usenet is obviously faster, but you kind of need to stay on top of things to get the most out of it. If you're serious about file sharing, you should probably use both, as they each have their own advantages.
--
"Let them hate, so long as they fear" -- Lucius Accius]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969253 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:49:27 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969204 Guspaz : I disagree. HDBits has a far better collection of 720p and 1080p content than Usenet does. Usenet might have most of that content as the 1080i or 1080p raws, but the HDBits community themselves are the ones that re-encode them down to DVD5 and DVD9 sizes at 720p and 1080p. They're fanatical about quality, and scoff at the scene encodes as being shoddy. And their content is only available on the site, since it's private.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20969204 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:41:03 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967347 cbp : I'd say that they complement each other.
For 720p/1080p vids, usenet is much better since it makes the download faster. For other things, torrents are better.
When something is not on usenet use torrents, and vice versa.

It is not the time to bash these protocols but make use of them while we still can. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967347 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:52:41 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967179 anon : 00:19 &Tracers • [ ScT ] [ #1 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 29 Sec ]
00:19 &Tracers • [ SCC ] [ #2 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 36 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ CT ] [ #3 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 55 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ BN ] [ #4 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 56 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ GFT ] [ #5 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 1 Min 2 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ RB ] [ #6 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 1 Min 7 Sec ]

(pre: the time it took to hit torrents sites since it was uploaded to topsites (FTP servers) (top of the piracy foodchain)

Dont tell me that Usenet gets stuff before torrents because that's absolutely false. i always max out my connection on ScT and SCC (2 of the best private torrent trackers). I dont pay for piracy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967179 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 05:37:48 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967013 Guspaz : Other than scene releases, many things that I download are simply not available on Usenet. Anime and videos encoded by private sites like HDBits are either less or not available on Usenet. Why should I pay more to get less?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20967013 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:15:17 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20966681 Ikarasu :
said by Guspaz See Profile :

Usenet costs money, torrents are free.
Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet.
I also dont agree with this >_ While Torrents sometimes last longer... with newsgroup retention now at 200 days... and reposts frequently, pretty much everything on Torrent ends up on usenet.

Most the scene releases of TV shows and movies also appear on usenet before Torrent...albeit a whole few mins fast in most cases, but still.

That being said... why bother with them? Well, why not? If everyone gave up on torrents, and just went to Usenet... what do you think the ISPS next throttle would be?

Also... get into a private tracker, and you wont experience fake files. Even the very-non-exclusive ones like Torrentleech have good moderation, and a great selection.

I run both Usenet and torrents... I can say theyre pretty much both equal, sometimes Usenet has stuff torrent doesn't, sometimes Torrent has stuff usenet doesn't... People just pick their poison and stick with it.

One advantage I'd have to say with Usenet though... You can watch your TV shows/movies as you download them, so it's like streaming... almost watch anything instantly, it's good when you get the sudden urge to want to watch something, and not want to wait 40-60 mins for a movie to d/l. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20966681 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:19:13 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964374 nanook :
said by Ravage_D See Profile :

I know people out there will argue that you have to pay for access to a Usenet service with decent retention -- but it's honestly not that expensive. You can go with Astraweb for just over $13 a month unlimited access.
Those who make only casual use of torrents do not want to pay extra for Usenet however modest the cost. Those who are heavy torrent users can spend as much for Usenet bandwidth as they pay their ISP for Internet access each month.

Considering the heartache around torrents, how plagued they are with fake files/viruses and adware/banners associated with their indexing websites -- forget it.
I am a fairly heavy user of BT yet I have never gotten a fake file or virus nor do I have problems with ads on indexing websites, public and private. (Maybe they have ads and I simply do not see them because of AdBlockPlus.)

Perhaps we're looking for different things or in different places.
Apparently.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964374 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:23:10 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964013 Ravage_D :
said by Guspaz See Profile :

Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet.
I can't agree with this! I've found it to be the opposite! For what I'm looking for (and I'm pretty mainstream) there's the same or better selection on Usenet rather than on Torrents. Plus you don't have to deal with having poorly seeded files.

Perhaps we're looking for different things or in different places.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20964013 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:52:02 EDT Re: [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963978 Guspaz : Usenet costs money, torrents are free.
Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet.

There's no comparison. Free and greater selection versus expensive and limited selection.

I also generally do not have problems with fake or spam torrents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963978 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:42:01 EDT [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them.. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963895 Ravage_D : I'm honestly having a very hard time understanding something. Perhaps somebody here could enlighten me.....

We all know torrents are throttled on almost every major ISP in Canada. My big question, is why do people even bother with them anymore?

Usenet is faster and more reliable. I use Cogeco and while their free Usenet service only has a weeks worth of retention...but it's still fairly decent.

What's even better is you're only using downstream.

I know people out there will argue that you have to pay for access to a Usenet service with decent retention -- but it's honestly not that expensive. You can go with Astraweb for just over $13 a month unlimited access.

That's less than the price of a meal at a restaurant or several beer at the bar.

Considering the heartache around torrents, how plagued they are with fake files/viruses and adware/banners associated with their indexing websites -- forget it.

Once you go Usenet, you never go back.

-RD]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20963895 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:20:39 EDT