Ravage_D
join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON
 ·Primus Telecommuni..
 ·Cogeco Voip
| [Rant] Torrents? ..Who needs them..
I'm honestly having a very hard time understanding something. Perhaps somebody here could enlighten me.....
We all know torrents are throttled on almost every major ISP in Canada. My big question, is why do people even bother with them anymore?
Usenet is faster and more reliable. I use Cogeco and while their free Usenet service only has a weeks worth of retention...but it's still fairly decent.
What's even better is you're only using downstream.
I know people out there will argue that you have to pay for access to a Usenet service with decent retention -- but it's honestly not that expensive. You can go with Astraweb for just over $13 a month unlimited access.
That's less than the price of a meal at a restaurant or several beer at the bar.
Considering the heartache around torrents, how plagued they are with fake files/viruses and adware/banners associated with their indexing websites -- forget it.
Once you go Usenet, you never go back.
-RD |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | Usenet costs money, torrents are free.
Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet.
There's no comparison. Free and greater selection versus expensive and limited selection.
I also generally do not have problems with fake or spam torrents. |
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Ravage_D
join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON
·Primus Telecommuni..
·Cogeco Voip
1 edit | said by Guspaz  :Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet. I can't agree with this! I've found it to be the opposite! For what I'm looking for (and I'm pretty mainstream) there's the same or better selection on Usenet rather than on Torrents. Plus you don't have to deal with having poorly seeded files.
Perhaps we're looking for different things or in different places. |
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nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by Ravage_D :I know people out there will argue that you have to pay for access to a Usenet service with decent retention -- but it's honestly not that expensive. You can go with Astraweb for just over $13 a month unlimited access. Those who make only casual use of torrents do not want to pay extra for Usenet however modest the cost. Those who are heavy torrent users can spend as much for Usenet bandwidth as they pay their ISP for Internet access each month.
Considering the heartache around torrents, how plagued they are with fake files/viruses and adware/banners associated with their indexing websites -- forget it. I am a fairly heavy user of BT yet I have never gotten a fake file or virus nor do I have problems with ads on indexing websites, public and private. (Maybe they have ads and I simply do not see them because of AdBlockPlus.)
Perhaps we're looking for different things or in different places. Apparently. |
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Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
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| reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz :Usenet costs money, torrents are free. Usenet has poor selection, torrents have far more available content, including much that is not and will never be on usenet. I also dont agree with this >_ While Torrents sometimes last longer... with newsgroup retention now at 200 days... and reposts frequently, pretty much everything on Torrent ends up on usenet.
Most the scene releases of TV shows and movies also appear on usenet before Torrent...albeit a whole few mins fast in most cases, but still.
That being said... why bother with them? Well, why not? If everyone gave up on torrents, and just went to Usenet... what do you think the ISPS next throttle would be?
Also... get into a private tracker, and you wont experience fake files. Even the very-non-exclusive ones like Torrentleech have good moderation, and a great selection.
I run both Usenet and torrents... I can say theyre pretty much both equal, sometimes Usenet has stuff torrent doesn't, sometimes Torrent has stuff usenet doesn't... People just pick their poison and stick with it.
One advantage I'd have to say with Usenet though... You can watch your TV shows/movies as you download them, so it's like streaming... almost watch anything instantly, it's good when you get the sudden urge to want to watch something, and not want to wait 40-60 mins for a movie to d/l. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | reply to Ravage_D
Other than scene releases, many things that I download are simply not available on Usenet. Anime and videos encoded by private sites like HDBits are either less or not available on Usenet. Why should I pay more to get less? |
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Lukee
@videotron.ca
| reply to Ravage_D
00:19 &Tracers • [ ScT ] [ #1 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 29 Sec ]
00:19 &Tracers • [ SCC ] [ #2 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 36 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ CT ] [ #3 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 55 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ BN ] [ #4 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 56 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ GFT ] [ #5 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 1 Min 2 Sec ]
00:20 &Tracers • [ RB ] [ #6 ] [ Code.Monkeys.S02E12.DSR.XViD-SYS ] [ PRE: 1 Min 7 Sec ]
(pre: the time it took to hit torrents sites since it was uploaded to topsites (FTP servers) (top of the piracy foodchain)
Dont tell me that Usenet gets stuff before torrents because that's absolutely false. i always max out my connection on ScT and SCC (2 of the best private torrent trackers). I dont pay for piracy. |
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cbp
join:2005-11-24
Montreal, QC
| reply to Ravage_D
I'd say that they complement each other.
For 720p/1080p vids, usenet is much better since it makes the download faster. For other things, torrents are better.
When something is not on usenet use torrents, and vice versa.
It is not the time to bash these protocols but make use of them while we still can. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
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| I disagree. HDBits has a far better collection of 720p and 1080p content than Usenet does. Usenet might have most of that content as the 1080i or 1080p raws, but the HDBits community themselves are the ones that re-encode them down to DVD5 and DVD9 sizes at 720p and 1080p. They're fanatical about quality, and scoff at the scene encodes as being shoddy. And their content is only available on the site, since it's private. |
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MisawaGQ
Divi Filius
Premium
join:2002-12-19
Mississauga
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Ravage_D
Most everything is on usenet at some point, but to get older things, you need torrents or luck. Usenet is obviously faster, but you kind of need to stay on top of things to get the most out of it. If you're serious about file sharing, you should probably use both, as they each have their own advantages.
--
"Let them hate, so long as they fear" -- Lucius Accius |
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cbp
join:2005-11-24
Montreal, QC
| reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz :I disagree. HDBits has a far better collection of 720p and 1080p content than Usenet does. Usenet might have most of that content as the 1080i or 1080p raws, but the HDBits community themselves are the ones that re-encode them down to DVD5 and DVD9 sizes at 720p and 1080p. They're fanatical about quality, and scoff at the scene encodes as being shoddy. And their content is only available on the site, since it's private. Keyword: Private.
Most of the people can't get in since it is private and it is hard to get invites.
You also have to keep a good ratio of at least 1:1.
With current internet connection of 10:1 download to upload ratio, it becomes almost impossible to maintain a good standing.
Now add throttling to that and it all goes to bell hell.
Both protocols are good if you use them.  |
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Glove
join:2008-04-06 | reply to Ravage_D
Torrents have and will change the world |
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IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
| reply to Ravage_D
I actually much prefer Torrents, and I'm speaking as a veteran user of Usenet (I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account, manually saving each segment, downloading it, and then using UUdecoder software on the computer side. Apple II's even had their own format called BinScii). 
Torrents are just so quick and simple. Click on the link, select a download location--DONE.
Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?), find and hope all the segments are there, and if not try and repair it with PAR files. Searching for something particular is rather a pain too. I'm sure there's better options than NewsBin Pro (what I'm using at the moment) but because of all that's involved, I rarely use my Usenet connection.
I have free Giganews access with my current ISP, but only 4 streams at about 15K/sec. Been extremely happy with Torrents, except that they seem to be getting throttled lately to ~30K/sec at different times of the day (gotta love Bell Canada for messing with third party ISPs). That's the only reason I'd thought of switching back to Usenet recently... |
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Stewy
Premium
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON
| said by IIgs :(I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?) on the first part I posted my first Usenet post in December 1992 I even found it in Google. I also use to work with VMS so I know where your coming from.
on the second part, I don't have to d/l all headers. For example I goto binsearch.net (free) and do a search on what I need and then create a nzb file and then use agent to import and start d/l. I can search/find/start d/l in under a minute.
One of the things working against torrents is that you have to deal with Private trackers which is not the case for usenet. |
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jerycan2424242
@mitra.com
| reply to Ravage_D
The point isn't whether torrents are better or worse Usenet. The point is Bell shouldn't be throttling. We don't have account with bell. If there wasn't such a thing as P2P downloading, Bell would be trying to subvert Usenet access for binary downloading.
KAPISH?!?! |
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quickbeam
Premium
join:2003-06-01
Ottawa | reply to Ravage_D
Th..r..o..ttle...what's that?
I'm enjoying fulls speeds up/down.
Cheers. |
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bottlenecked
@3menatwork.com |  reply to Ravage_D
BitTorrent on VPS : best solution ? |
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IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
| reply to Stewy
said by Stewy :said by IIgs :(I first started downloading from binary groups in 1992 through a dial-in VMS/VAX shell account Usenet you have to download ALL the headers first (how long can that take?) on the first part I posted my first Usenet post in December 1992 I even found it in Google. I also use to work with VMS so I know where your coming from. Looked in Google, mine was June 1992. Ironically, I asked a question about Usenet retention in that post. (and two days earlier, going by dates, I inadvertently posted a binary to the same discussion group. A piece of software only a few kilobytes large but it's now preserved forever I guess!). Just brought back a flash back memory, to post a binary back then I would actually open the EDT editor in VAX and do a direct screen dump into the editor, then save it. Yeah, trying watching hundreds of pieces of UUencoded data, scroll onto screen line by line, at 2400 baud! And hope there was no line noise from beginning to end. Fun!).
on the second part, I don't have to d/l all headers. For example I goto binsearch.net (free) and do a search on what I need and then create a nzb file and then use agent to import and start d/l. I can search/find/start d/l in under a minute. Ack! How did I not know this? You know what, I just tried it and can't believe how easy that was! I may just switch back over to Usenet thanks to your tip--seriously! One thing, is there a way to see how large the complete data file will be? (i.e. say I'm looking for a video files exactly 700MB, as opposed to a poorly encoded version that's 500-something). Wow, thanks for this!
One of the things working against torrents is that you have to deal with Private trackers which is not the case for usenet. That has definitely been a big turn off. I'll find something I really want, and then get that dreaded message about it being private... :P |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
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| reply to Ravage_D
Fails.
I recently downloaded a 720p copy of the movie WarGames. Interested to see if I could find it on usenet with "binsearch", I told it to search for "wargames 720p" in the last 120 days.
Zero results. Looks like you can't get the movie in HD on usenet.
So, the FIRST movie I try to find on usenet isn't there. I'll stick to torrents, thanks. Not that you can find that on a public torrent site either. But it shows that in my case, I'm better off sticking where I am; using private and public torrent sites. |
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Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC
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| Wargames 1, or 2? I wouldnt trust binsearch for everything.
I just did a "Supersearch" and found "WarGames 1080i 50Hz-HYPERLOVE"
Not 720, but its there.
I just got a HDTV, so not so sure about HD results. But I'll agree, a HDTV private site probably has way more results/faster relases, simply because of the huge base of people who are there for nothing but HDTV.
Lets just say both of them have their conveniences. I've found quite a few movies on Usenet that I couldn't get on Torrent, and I've also found a few on torrent that I couldn't get on usenet. Theres nothing wrong with either, it all just depends on what the user is looking for.
quote:
Dont tell me that Usenet gets stuff before torrents because that's absolutely false. i always max out my connection on ScT and SCC (2 of the best private torrent trackers). I dont pay for piracy.
You listed 1 release. BT does have some topsite releasers... but not every single release gets released to torrent instantly. Some Topsite groups release to usenet also... with 100M up, they get posted almost instantly to newsgroup sites (As well as torrent sites).
Binsearch lists Eureka as being posted 2 hours ago (Sadly it doesn't do down to the minute info, and my news client doesn't either) And SCT lists it as 2 hours 20 mins ago. I'm willing to be within 1-2 mins of eachother, they were posted to both.
Theyre both about equal in new content... BT has the benefit of having more rare stuff then newsgroups, And Usenet has the benefit of privacy.
I personally use both. And at $12 a month for unlimited downloads, I don't really see it as a waste. If nothing else then for music... Don't get me wrong, music is great on BT, but finding singles is annoying, and having to go through albums and select 1 file is much more work... With newsgroups you type in the song name in your client (If it supports supersearch) Hit download, and take away a few steps. Useless for most, really nice for me, as I said... it's a user preference, and I think it'd be stupid to say 1 is more superior then the other, the end result is usually the same no matter which service you go with. |
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