neonhomer
Honoray Mythbuster
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join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
 ·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| 2004 Chevy Silverado - No fuel filter???
My truck is getting up on 65,000 miles, and I have to do an oil change and tranny fluid & filter. I figured I would also go ahead and change the drive belt, hoses, t-stat and coolant...
Anyway, I also thought about changing the fuel filter. Guess what... there is none... so to speak. I went to the local parts place to get one, and it lists as "Not Serviceable". So I go up the road a few miles to the dealer, and sure enough there is no typical fuel filter. There is a screen that is on the outside of the fuel pump module that is the fuel filter. When you replace the fuel pump, you replace the filter.
So... I wonder if it would be beneficial to plumb one in somewhere. I was talking with the parts manager, and he was thinking it could be possible to get the fuel lines from a different truck that has a inline fuel filter and convert it.
Has anyone had any experience with this (no fuel filter) or what to do? Seems kinda weird to me....
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
·Mediacom
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It would serve no useful purpose, and certainly would not be safe. That truck utilizes a "returnless" system that operates under high pressure from the tank to the injectors using specialized lines and fittings, and trying to re-engineer it by installing an in-line filter is a recipe for disaster.
Those systems have been operating for several years with many thousands of collective miles, and I have yet to see a failure of the system caused by an obstructed filter.
Seriously, there is no need, and the consequences of doing such an operation incorrectly far outweigh any perceived benefit. |
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TheHarvester
join:2006-08-25
Dana Point, CA
| said by mattmag  :It would serve no useful purpose, and certainly would not be safe. That truck utilizes a "returnless" system that operates under high pressure from the tank to the injectors using specialized lines and fittings, and trying to re-engineer it by installing an in-line filter is a recipe for disaster. Those systems have been operating for several years with many thousands of collective miles, and I have yet to see a failure of the system caused by an obstructed filter. Seriously, there is no need, and the consequences of doing such an operation incorrectly far outweigh any perceived benefit. I also agree. |
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X Man
Sober
Premium
join:2005-09-05
USA
| said by TheHarvester :said by mattmag :It would serve no useful purpose, and certainly would not be safe. That truck utilizes a "returnless" system that operates under high pressure from the tank to the injectors using specialized lines and fittings, and trying to re-engineer it by installing an in-line filter is a recipe for disaster. Those systems have been operating for several years with many thousands of collective miles, and I have yet to see a failure of the system caused by an obstructed filter. Seriously, there is no need, and the consequences of doing such an operation incorrectly far outweigh any perceived benefit. I also agree. Me three. 
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koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX
| reply to neonhomer
Well i know i wont be getting one of those models.
As the Fuel sock on the fuel pump may not stop little particles if you get some trash in the tank from the sediments from the bottom of the gas station starage tank.
And as long as the PSI to the injectors stays the same i would not see why a filter could not be added.
It's assinine not to put a filter inline as injectors are not cheep. |
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imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| said by koma3504 : Well i know i wont be getting one of those models. I know quite a few people with lawn care companies using these trucks with well over 100K miles and not a single issue. All using stock fuel pump/filter combo.
It's assinine not to put a filter inline as injectors are not cheep. The vehicle was engineered to not need an external fuel filter since there is one built into the fuel pump. |
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koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX
| All electric fuel pumps have that sock. I had experinced the issue i mention in my post i got some trash From someplace i filled up and I went though # fuel filters located on the driverside about right under the cab on my96 I eventually ended up having to pull the gas tank out and celan out the tank As my fuel pump quit pumping at the proper PSI I think its suppose to Pump @ 65 PSi if I rember corectley And no THe sock did not fall of it was still intact but i installed a new one with the new fuel pump. Thank god for the filter other wise i would have clean all the injectors/throttle body. I beileve the 2004 would have Full fuel injection with a fuel rail.
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If YOu Don't Think It's Possable!! It's Acually A Reality!!The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay!!
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neonhomer
Honoray Mythbuster
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
| reply to neonhomer
First off, I'm not a novice when it comes to cars. Been working on them for 15+ years. If I did adapt a fuel filter into my system, I would do it safely.
As for the pump assembly. The pump is surrounded by a plastic shroud (from what I saw in the diagram), and the bottom is covered by a screen. There is no pickup sock in this tank, but the screen.
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"I reject your reality and subsitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters
"We're either gonna die or gonna fly...", Jamie Hyneman, Mythbusters - M5 Industries |
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
·Mediacom
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It's good to have safety in mind. Even with safety aside however, I honestly don't know why you would want to do it to begin with. The system has performed quite well without the added filter, so I'm not sure what situation you are trying to solve.
You asked if it would be beneficial, and my expert opinion is no, it would not be. There is already a filter, and it is in the tank *before* the pump, which has the extra benefit of protecting the pump as well as everything after the pump. Adding another downstream is a duplication of effort, and presents no benefit. |
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TheHarvester
join:2006-08-25
Dana Point, CA
| reply to koma3504
said by koma3504 : Well i know i wont be getting one of those models. As the Fuel sock on the fuel pump may not stop little particles if you get some trash in the tank from the sediments from the bottom of the gas station starage tank. And as long as the PSI to the injectors stays the same i would not see why a filter could not be added. It's assinine not to put a filter inline as injectors are not cheep. They did not just do away with the filter and rely on the "SOCK" to do the filtering. They have an actual filter within the pump assy along with a sock. Chry. has been doing this for a lot longer than GM and I will bet Ford will follow behind soon. Honda has also started doing this a few years back.
In the older style (sock and frame mounted filter) the sock was designed to filter the larger particles and the filter used for the smaller ones. so basically nothing has changed the sock filters the larger crap and the filter: the smaller stuff. |
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koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX
edit:
July 8th, @10:51PM
| Oh so ya have to pull the tank to even to change just a filter. Well that was smart of them to put it there!
Or what ya have to change the pump to change the filter? |
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
·Mediacom
| said by koma3504 :Oh so ya have to pull the tank to even to change just a filter. Well that was smart of them to put it there! Or what ya have to change the pump to change the filter? What part of "does not need servicing" do you not get? It is a BETTER arrangement to filter BEFORE the pump than AFTER the pump, especially with a return-less system. In normal operation there is no need to replace the filter media, as it will last the life of the pump module.
It is also "assinine" (sic) to replace multiple in-line filters of the previous design, which did NOTHING to correct the problem, as YOU YOURSELF found that you had to drop the tank, clean the tank and REPLACE THE PUMP to effect a proper repair!
If you are going to present a counter-argument, at least have it make some sense... |
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3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs: | reply to neonhomer
Toyota can be added to the list of those who have the filter in tank. |
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koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX
| reply to mattmag
Well you see the other fitler Inline kept the trash out of the rest of the line going up to the throttle body. And When I mentioned the proper psi droped in my fuel Pump It ment It had to be replaced. So That was the main reason i had to drop the tank. Was just a bonus cleaning out the tank at the same time. |
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
·Mediacom
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It wasn't a 'bonus' cleaning out the tank, it was the way it needed to be fixed to begin with. Changing countless fuel filters does not "fix" the problem, that is simply the result of the problem. The PROPER fix is removing the foreign material from the tank. |
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koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX
| Yes i know that but atleast the other filter saved me from having to flush the entire fuel system and possably have to take the throttle body off and do the same thing.
At the time i was working to much to do the drop the gas tank. So changing the filter out every couple of months that only takes like 5 mins was the fix and it filtered the trash from getting in the rest of the fuel system.
Changing Fuel filters is just Part of routine prevenitive maintence. As with changing the Oil.
So what your saying is Alot of people are going to have to take thier Vehicle to the shop and have the tank pulled and flushed If they fill up @ a gas station that the tanks are low or was just filled up and got contaminints from the sediments in the storage tank.
We can Debate this all day but I do have a clue.
Been around Auto shops for 26 years as well as Twisting wrenches.
They went to fuel pumps in the gas tank cause its eaiser to push then it is to pull.
The way i see it is it's just another way for the Auto shops to make more $$$ Origanlly it was the Auto manufacturs thinking NUmbers game for the people that take their car strickley to the dealer for service.
Don't get me wrong Auto Technitions need to make a living as well As that is what raised me. And put food and clothing etc.. on my back.
I just see something wrong with a no serviceable filter as now you have to buy the whole fuel pump How much are those fuel pumps $500 bucks ??? verses the the other one for $110.
And @ first the symptoms it had it could have been the fuel pressure regulator Located in the intake manafold upper assembally A breaking down coil Plug wires breaking down Or a fuel pump A fuel Filter being the cheepest @ 10 bucks. Properly showed what the problem was without checking eveything else 
Another favorite Is the Alternator regulators Are soldered in in the New Style Alternators.
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† Koma †
If YOu Don't Think It's Possable!! It's Acually A Reality!!The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay!!
Ya Don't Know The signal Till Ya Ride It!!
Voice Break's There's Trouble!!!! |
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs: |
I give up.
I need to keep reminding myself not to enter into a discussion based on logic with you... |
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