MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs:
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| Ethanol blending.
I know this has been discussed, but the thread is OLD:
»Finding out a gas station uses Ethanol.
I registered banethanol.org. I'm going to try and create a community where people can report the stations in their area that are NOT blending ethanol in the fuel, to give people an opportunity to support the retailers that are not participating in this practice.
As I'm sure most of you know, 10% ethanol in your gas can result in a 20% decrease in fuel economy. Something doesn't quite add up.
Not to mention the damaging properties that ethanol has on rubber seals and gaskets. Who thought this was a good idea, and WHY is it legal?
In my 2006 Mazdaspeed6, I have measured 2 tanks with ethanol blended in (Shell) and 2 tanks without (Philips 66).
I was careful to do the identical types of driving both times. My routine is pretty much the same each week.
First tank w/ethanol blend: 18mpg
Second tank w/ethanol blend: 19mpg
First tank w/o ethanol: 22mpg
Second tank w/o Ethanol: 24mpg
I'm on my third ethanol-free tank, and now that my ECU is getting adjusted I think I'm going to do even better on this tank.
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Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
+44.88-87.89
| 10% ethanol is so far diluted it will have no adverse effects on fuel system components. I can understand the bitching about the fuel mileage decrease though. You are getting a larger drop with 10% than my wife's van does with E85.
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tehflyintwat
join:2008-03-23
Richmond Hil
·Rogers Hi-Speed
edit:
July 5th, @07:34PM
| reply to MarkyD
It's a biofuel and it does not decrease your fuel mileage by much if any at all (in theory it can, but at such low blend rates it barely makes a difference), it is mandatory in fuels that are part of the Top Tier program (increasing in number of participants), and it reduces engine emissions compared to the older chemicals that used to be in fuels (most of whom were carcinogens and over time would clog your catalytic) and are now banned from use. It also burns more efficiently. In addition, in the cold winter months it acts as a natural gas line anti-freeze.
Ethanol will soon be mandated by all fuel stations in the US and virtually all Canadian stations already use it. The only exception is high octane "premium" fuel, some of them being advertised as containing no ethanol. One of the reasons why it is not used in high octane fuels is because ethanol is an octane enhancer. Since high octane fuels already contain plenty of octane it is not necessary to add ethanol. But again, this may change in the coming years, and even in premium gasoline they use alcohol-derived components to replace the more harmful chemicals (MTBE) that used to be blended in gasoline.
It should also be noted the pure ethanol fuels cost quite a bit less than gasohol and yet the mileage, with the help of modern technology, is almost the same. |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Speakeasy
| reply to MarkyD
With my Civic HB I can get EPA+ mpg with 10% ethanol. Personally - I think the hit from mpg is a lot more related to the right foot and different conditions. I don't know of a station around me that does not blend - at least that I would buy (no BP, Shell or other boutique gas for me).
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Brian
Free health care is 100% a misnomer - it is not free and never will be free. |
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mastermind278
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Newark, NJ
clubs: 
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edit:
July 5th, @08:09PM
| reply to MarkyD
I have had the same issues as you. My MPG always is much lower when I get the damn 10% ethanol compared to the normal octane 93. The difference for me is also about 5 miles per gallon. It's just so hard to find a gas station that doesn't have it though. I wish there was a way to get at least a list of all the locations that do not have E10!
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Mastermind 4 Life ® ™ © |
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MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs:
edit:
July 5th, @08:29PM
| reply to MarkyD
Every Philips66 station here that I've seen does not blend. Everyone else seems to.
Edit: What I don't get, however, is all the Conoco stations here blend...ConocoPhilips is one now. I don't understand that one. |
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ttiiggy
Premium
join:2001-03-27
Dayton, OH
| reply to MarkyD
A 2-cycle engine needs to have oil mixed with the gas. If you use gasoline that has alcohol added, it still works fine. The oil mixes with the gas and alcohol and lubricates the engine.
Problems can arise if the gas / alcohol / oil mix gets water in it.
Water can get in from condensation or snow or rain...
Water doesn't mix with gas. Water doesn't mix with oil. That is not a real problem if you only have gas and oil mix that gets water in it. Water in the fuel tank tends to settle to the bottom. Your engine won't run if you get too much water in it. Drain the water out of the tank and drain the carburetor and you are running again.
Water DOES mix with alcohol. Water doesn't mix with oil. Your 2-cycle engine will try to run on the alcohol/water mix with NO lubrication.
No lubrication = scored cylinder, increased heat, melted pistons, ruined bearings...
Take a test tube or a narrow glass jar and put a few ounces of fuel in it. Add a bit of water. Cap the container and Shake. When it settles in less than a minute, there should be several layers.
If you have good fuel, there will be gas on top and a layer of clear water on the bottom.
If you have alcohol mixed with the fuel, there will be a layer of gas on top and milky water and alcohol mixture on the bottom.
I tried to find some other instructions online. This was the closest I found:
»www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail···em=18454 |
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TCO1962
Premium
join:2001-07-02
Champaign, IL
clubs:
edit:
July 6th, @02:29AM
| reply to MarkyD
said by MarkyD  :As I'm sure most of you know, 10% ethanol in your gas can result in a 20% decrease in fuel economy. Something doesn't quite add up. Not to mention the damaging properties that ethanol has on rubber seals and gaskets. Bullshit. 10% results in a very minimal (to non existent) reduction in MPG.
Drop the damage BS too. Not happening with a 10% blend.
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TCO1962
Premium
join:2001-07-02
Champaign, IL
clubs:
|  reply to tehflyintwat
said by tehflyintwat :It's a biofuel and it does not decrease your fuel mileage by much if any at all (in theory it can, but at such low blend rates it barely makes a difference), it is mandatory in fuels that are part of the Top Tier program (increasing in number of participants), and it reduces engine emissions compared to the older chemicals that used to be in fuels (most of whom were carcinogens and over time would clog your catalytic) and are now banned from use. It also burns more efficiently. In addition, in the cold winter months it acts as a natural gas line anti-freeze. Ethanol will soon be mandated by all fuel stations in the US and virtually all Canadian stations already use it. The only exception is high octane "premium" fuel, some of them being advertised as containing no ethanol. One of the reasons why it is not used in high octane fuels is because ethanol is an octane enhancer. Since high octane fuels already contain plenty of octane it is not necessary to add ethanol. But again, this may change in the coming years, and even in premium gasoline they use alcohol-derived components to replace the more harmful chemicals (MTBE) that used to be blended in gasoline. It should also be noted the pure ethanol fuels cost quite a bit less than gasohol and yet the mileage, with the help of modern technology, is almost the same. Kudos on the post. Refreshing to see someone out there knows what the hell they're talking about. The misinformation is running rampant these days.
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Da Geek Kid
join:2003-10-11
Mclean, VA | reply to MarkyD
Re: Ethanol blending.
»gas2.org/2008/04/10/biodiesel-my···spelled/ |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Speakeasy
| reply to MarkyD
You are missing some facts - 10% ethanol blend will NOT damage rubber seals etc... Ask a good qualified, certified mechanic - been running blended gas in my cars for awhile since I live in Ohio and yet to have any rubber problems after many years. It would if the gar was designed to run on gas and you run it on 100% ethanol - maybe as low as 50% would cause some damage to rubber but we are talking about 10% not 50%-100%.
Reduction in mileage can be explained several other ways as well - subtle differences in driving, weather conditions, and how clean the gas is in the station tanks.
Some cars may be more sensitive as well but not all cars by any means. I do believe there probably is some reduction in fuel mileage - mainly for folks driving automatics will see it - but I think it is over-stated based on my experience and I think it is over-stated for a reason and I think it started with gas stations trying to separate themselves from the competition.
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Brian
Free health care is 100% a misnomer - it is not free and never will be free. |
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
·Mediacom
| reply to MarkyD
said by MarkyD :As I'm sure most of you know, 10% ethanol in your gas can result in a 20% decrease in fuel economy. Something doesn't quite add up. Not to mention the damaging properties that ethanol has on rubber seals and gaskets. Who thought this was a good idea, and WHY is it legal? No, most of us don't know that. Mainly because it is false.
And the rest of your post is is pure FUD. |
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mityfowl
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX | reply to TCO1962
Your wrong. 10% ethanol results in a 10-12% drop in gas milage. This stuff is the biggest scam on earth today except carbon credits. |
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TCO1962
Premium
join:2001-07-02
Champaign, IL
clubs:
| said by mityfowl :Your wrong. 10% ethanol results in a 10-12% drop in gas milage. This stuff is the biggest scam on earth today except carbon credits. No, and......no. |
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BurntCricket
Gotta Do What Ya Gotta Do
Premium
join:2000-09-02
Here
clubs: | reply to MarkyD
Well considering ethanol in gas is nothing new, if there were all these major problems with it ....
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If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand. |
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mastermind278
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Newark, NJ
clubs:
·Optimum Voice
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| reply to TCO1962
Big Decrease |
said by TCO1962 :said by mityfowl :Your wrong. 10% ethanol results in a 10-12% drop in gas milage. This stuff is the biggest scam on earth today except carbon credits. No, and......no. My MPG has gone down. My driving habits have not changed since last year. My car has been maintained and everything.
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Mastermind 4 Life ® ™ © |
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misterjda
join:2007-12-03
Wheaton, IL
| I know that we've E10 "Summer Blend" here in Chicago for a very long time. I don't know of anyone with engine problems from it. However, I could understand a slight MPG drop from it. Doesn't E85 do the same thing? So it would make sense that E10 would as well, just not as dramatic (note that I am not a scientist).
Mastermind, what is that you're using to track your MPG? |
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mityfowl
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
| reply to TCO1962
TCO I beg you to read this article: »www.caranddriver.com/features/al···_feature
I'm from Illinois and I know how important the corn crop is. I just think that many people are misinformed and the politicians are just ramming this crap down our throats.
And AFTER you read just this 1 article you want to call me out that's cool. |
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