3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? in Wireless Service Providers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20730639 en Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:13:13 EDT Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:13:13 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20789723 anon : Won't putting all your cards in one box cause more self-interference then putting all 3 of your radio cards in different enclosures?

Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you use the 20 MHz spacing between the available 2.4 GHz freqs there's still some 'bleed-over' from the center frequency... which will cause some self-interference from having all the cards in one box. I know the Ubiquiti cards to be high-quality radios, and maybe they are better than other cards at filtering out 'bleed-over', but I am still skeptical of putting everyting in one box... that and if something blows up, all your sectors will be down.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20789723 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:39:46 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743747 dusty1300 : I'm not 100% sure about the certification. I have seen quite a few conflicting messages in different forums about this. From what I can tell, one of the radios is certified, and if I use it within the guidelines of what antennas it was certified with, I can put a fcc label on the outside of the box and be ok. Maybe I'm way off on this. I'm still trying to figure it out. Here is the latest thing I read:

" Directly from the FCC:

Inquiry:
I am trying to fully understand the procedures for getting a radio device certified for used as a registered base station under the new 3650-3700 rules. I know this device is only allowed to operate in the lower 25mhz. The device in question is fcc id: SWX-XR3B. What procedures do I need to take, to allow me to use this in a single board computer, as a Access Point (Base station)? SBC: Routerboard 333 »routerboard.com/pdf/rb333b.pdf Radio Device: »ubnt.com/products/xr3.php Thanks, Kyle Duren

Response:
Since the device is already certified, it can be installed into a final basestation without further approval, as long as the FCCID label is attached on the outside of the final product. However, if your company wishes to obtain it's own FCC number for the final product, then you must apply for an original FCCID."

As for frequencies in use, the utility company is using the entire 2.4 band vertical and some 5.8. I'm using some of it horizontal, and numerous cell providers are using 5.8 for backhauls. If I do a spectrum analysis just about anywhere in town, there are no open 5 gig stuff at all. 5.4 would work, but I saw some radar and am leary of it going offline while it scans. I saw it do this at 5.3 with a new tranzeo before. I don't think the 5.4 stuff will penetrate trees very well either. 3650 won't be great, but will be better than 5 gig.

Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20743747 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:04:11 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20741547 cmaenginsb :
said by dusty1300 See Profile :

We are very used to high priced cpe's. We have been on Waveriders for years and their their high failure rates, we ended up buying many of them twice. At least with these, if the radio goes bad, you just replace the radio. If the ethernet goes bad, you just replace them routerboard.

I have also looked at more expensive 3650 options. I plan on putting up 18 sectors at different locations. At $ 10,000 per sector, that would be $ 180,000 with Airspan or some others. With this system, I can do it for about $ 36,000. The cpe cost for an XR3 radio will run about $ 400. That is about the same as the Airspan cpes and most of the others.

Yeh, I wish the cpe's were cheaper, but I can't use 2.4 around here, I'm already using up all the 900 freqs, and 5.8 is used up and I have lots of trees. Doesn't give me a lot of choices.

Since Waverider is EOL'ing the 4000 series, I have to do something pretty soon. I can't buy radios after July 30th, and they are still going bad and my customers need more speed.

Tom
I hate to bring this up but given that the 3 Ghz band is not Part 15, I don't think you will be able to use Mikrotiks with XR3s unless you get the whole thing certified as a radio.

As to comparing MT to ubnt,deliberant etc my experience is that on the AP side at least you simply don't get the type of information and management that I would want personally.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20741547 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:51:51 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20740919 superdog :
said by dusty1300 See Profile :

Yeh, I wish the cpe's were cheaper, but I can't use 2.4 around here, I'm already using up all the 900 freqs, and 5.8 is used up and I have lots of trees. Doesn't give me a lot of choices.

Tom
Tom, Why is all the spectrum wasted?. There are a total of 3 providers were I am working and we all seem to get along?.
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»www.wavecrazy.net
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20740919 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 10:24:24 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20740625 dusty1300 : We are very used to high priced cpe's. We have been on Waveriders for years and their their high failure rates, we ended up buying many of them twice. At least with these, if the radio goes bad, you just replace the radio. If the ethernet goes bad, you just replace them routerboard.

I have also looked at more expensive 3650 options. I plan on putting up 18 sectors at different locations. At $ 10,000 per sector, that would be $ 180,000 with Airspan or some others. With this system, I can do it for about $ 36,000. The cpe cost for an XR3 radio will run about $ 400. That is about the same as the Airspan cpes and most of the others.

Yeh, I wish the cpe's were cheaper, but I can't use 2.4 around here, I'm already using up all the 900 freqs, and 5.8 is used up and I have lots of trees. Doesn't give me a lot of choices.

Since Waverider is EOL'ing the 4000 series, I have to do something pretty soon. I can't buy radios after July 30th, and they are still going bad and my customers need more speed.

Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20740625 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:51:36 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20740588 ponline : With the price of the XR3 card, the clients CPE would be very expensive, very long ROI.
If i had that kind of bussinesplan that alows me for expensive CPEs I would go with a proprietary solution anytime.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20740588 Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:37:43 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20738108 slipstream1 : That would be best.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20738108 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:00:13 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20737932 dusty1300 : That kinda decides it for me then. I figured I could fit 3 on the 433ah board. If not, then I might as well go for 3 single boards/xr3's boxes. Maybe keep my 433ah for a 2 sector location.

Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20737932 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:23:46 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20737882 slipstream1 : If you use XR3 then you are going to have to go the multiple board route. 3 XR3's will not fit in a RB433. You can fit 2, but the center one will not latch down.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20737882 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:12:22 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20737394 dusty1300 : I'm doing this with Ubiquiti Xr3's. I have to put them in something. I like Mikrotiks a lot, so am leaning that way.

If I'm missing another way to do this, let me know.

Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20737394 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:37:29 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20736818 ponline : I also vote for separated radio for each sector.

One more thing to consider on this setup which would save you money would be instead of 3 x RB+Mpci+pigtail+enclosure, you can deploy 3x outdoor form factor bridges (ubnt,deliberant, etc), and one MT router on the ground if you need the routing.
If you keep one radio per board I don't really see the advantages on the wireless side of Mikrotik (exept nstreeme for links).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20736818 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:44:18 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20735857 dusty1300 : Thanks Superdog. I added that idea to my list.

I received an message from another board mentioning that it would be better from an arp table perspective, especially if we used the same ESSID on each sector. I'm not sure what that means, he didn't elaborate.

Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20735857 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:00:14 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20735742 superdog :
said by slipstream1 See Profile :

Back to the main topic
Yes, Sorry!. I would also run 3 separate units for the same reasons everyone else mentioned. It also may be easier if you take a lightning hit, as you may only lose 1 or 2 instead of all 3?.
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»www.wavecrazy.net
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20735742 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:14:25 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20735720 slipstream1 : Back to the main topic, I do not think you can go wrong either way you go. What works for me, might not work for you. Same for the other guys posting on here. We can give you examples of what works for us and you can take that and run with it. I don't think you can eliminate the trial and error completely, but can eliminate some of the pain and sleepless nights.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20735720 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:02:43 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20734002 superdog :
said by slipstream1 See Profile :

I have always been interested in politics. :D
Me too!!!. I love debating things and trying NOT to offend the other person. It can be tricky at times, but interesting none the less. :D
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»www.wavecrazy.net
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20734002 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 20:22:11 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20732076 slipstream1 : I have always been interested in politics. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20732076 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:29:32 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731506 cmaenginsb : Personally unless it's a small site I prefer everything separate, primarily for the reason you stated that you can work on one without disturbing the others. I'd rather only have 30-40 customers screaming at me than 120 or more.
--
CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731506 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:50:37 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731390 dusty1300 :
said by slipstream1 See Profile :

I think that the pros outweigh the cons and the cons outweigh the pros.
You sound like a politician. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731390 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:30:57 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731322 sarpkaya : Money is important Start with one one 433AH board with 3 R52h or whatever u're gonna use, than you'll buy 2 more 433AH]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731322 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:20:11 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731296 slipstream1 : I still do 1 ea 333 or 433 board with 3 cards in it, but I am thinking about doing 1 board and 1 card per sector for a new deployment to experiment. I think that the pros outweigh the cons and the cons outweigh the pros. Yes you can use a smaller box for a single card and radio, but you need more of them to sectorize a site.
My current setups contain 1 or 2 boards with the radio cards that I need for that site. I also keep a brand new setup at each tower site pre-configured in an enclosure, so if there is a problem I go up and change out the whole unit and then do my troubleshooting at the shop. That way I disconnect 3 or 4 coax connectors and reconnect them, then the POE runs and I am done.
I think it probably comes down to personal preference. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20731296 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:16:14 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730669 dusty1300 : Thanks for your recommendations. I have edited my list to reflect your comment.

Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730669 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:57:34 EDT Re: 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730662 IntraLink : After many years of trying to do multiple cards per box (and we WERE successfull to a degree) we eventually ended up one card per board.

They are relatively cheap so my recommendation would be to seperate them if possible and pay the extra $$$.

But it would probably work fine with three in one board if you are careful. Your pro's and Con's are good.

One more Pro to the seperate card/board combo is that you can upgrade and work on it without taking out the other sectors.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730662 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:55:25 EDT 3 sectors, 1 mikrotik or 3? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730639 dusty1300 : I'm new to using Mikrotiks for wireless. Was wondering which is better. 3 radio cards on 1 433AH board, or 1 radio card per 411A board? Or maybe a different board? I suppose there are pros and cons to each. More boxes, more POE, etc. Just wondering what peoples experience was with putting up 3 sectors on one location.

Pros for one board:

1. Less hardware to buy (1 board, 1 box, 1 POE)
2. Less points of failure
3. Less ethernet ports required on switch
4. Less outlets required
5. Only one to program

Pros for 3 boards

1. If one AP goes down, you don't take down all 3.
2. Less power requirement for POE
3. Smaller case requirement.
4. Can upgrade and work with one without disturbing the others
5. Lighning may on not take out all sectors.

I was hoping to get some real world experience of the idea.

Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20730639 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:51:38 EDT