Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO
| [Tech] Contact ignition vs electronic.
My daily corolla (again  ) is having issues with rough idling, high fuel comsumtion, I believe the main cause is the carburettor. The mechanic recommended to change the ignition system from a rare and old contact type (they call them here "platino") that is on the car now, to a modern "electronic" type. I researched a bit on google and I didnt like the info I got, the thing is that certainly the car has this kind of contact type thing, like this:
»www.allproducts.com/traffic/maiding/08.jpg
What I want to know is:
1. What are the advantages one vs other?
2. Is possible to do this on a engine that doesn't hava a ECU?
3. Will this help to make the engine more stable?
4. Will this require a different alternator
he said is a very common mod, I was thinking to get the distribuitor from a 3E engine from a toyota tercel (I assume this is the part the use to do the conversion).
thanks.
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All Is possible... |
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wenter99
HardRock Houdini
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
 ·Comcast
| Corolla with contact point ignition and carburetor? How old is that Toyota anyway?
If you suspect your carburetor is causing your cars problems, then you need to adjust or rebuild it. You can't fix a carburetor problem by converting to an electronic ignition...
The main advantage to having an electronic ignition system is that it's basically maintenance free. A properly setup electronic ignition system in a car can go 200,000 miles or more with ZERO maintenance. Spark-plug life is also extended to 60,000 to 75,000 miles.
Your old style contact points ignition system requires a new set of points and condenser every 20,000 miles or so. You also need to keep the air gap on the points adjusted to .035"-.045" for top performance. Spark plugs, plug wires and distributor cap need to be changed every 40,000 miles as well.
The electronic ignition is superior to the old point style ignition for sure. But, is it worth the money and trouble on an old model car, especially considering that you suspect your cars problem lies with its fuel delivery system?
Terry
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"Sometimes all you can do is just hunker down and take it, like a jackass caught out in a hail storm". LBJ |
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Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO
| well, the car had about 60,000 miles on it when I bought it. now the car has 80,000 and I really doubt the original owner changed anything from the ignition. I have not changed anything on it yet, so I believe this could be an issue :S
I was looking around inside the little distributor, and seems like there's an oil leak going in there... maybe this is paying it's toll on the rought idling I feel sometimes.
It's a '92 corolla.
If it's wort it? well, I frankly believe is not, but I'm not in the states right now, and here this car is a valuable good  some ppl on the states cant believe there are actually guys that want to give me a lot of money more than what I paid for it |
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wenter99
HardRock Houdini
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join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
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| My comment about your cars worth was more concerning its overall condition, not its age. With only 80,000 miles, and if it's in good condition overall, it may be practical to upgrade to electronic ignition, if that's what you would like to do.
If it were my Corolla, I would restore the present ingnition system in the car, especially considering it probably hasn't been maintained at all in its 16 year life.
First of all, oil under the distributer cap is not good. It can cause the mis-fire you've described. The oil can get under there for several different reasons though, and it's difficult to tell you where its coming from without seeing it myself.
I would suggest removing the distributor from the engine, clean it thouroughly with solvent, and replace the "O"-ring seal on the shaft. If there's a gasket on the base of the distributor replace it as well. Replace the distributor cap, points, condenser, spark plug and coil wires and spark plugs. Adjust the air gap on the points and spark plugs to the engines specifications. These things done, your contact point ignition system is as good as new and it doesn't cost much.
I really believe you will be amazed at how much better your engine runs if you just do the above.
I have a '95 Corolla myself that only I drive. Bought it new in December, 1995. It does have factory electronic ignition and it's been completely trouble free. I did change the spark plugs at 60,000 miles just because they were "due". Car has 82,000 miles on it now and I wouldn't get rid of it for anything.
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"Sometimes all you can do is just hunker down and take it, like a jackass caught out in a hail storm". LBJ |
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Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO
| sorry, maybe I misunderstood your comment. For me, the car whatever condition it is, is worth whatever someone is willing to give me . On the other side, the car is in very good condition, a 8 of 10 I would say minus a few annoyances, like the AC, etc. |
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wenter99
HardRock Houdini
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join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
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edit:
July 3rd, @10:17AM
| said by Angralitux  :...the car whatever condition it is, is worth whatever someone is willing to give me... . Well sure, I understand that. But do you really want to go to the expense and effort of converting to an electronic ignition if you're just going to sell the car? Will your potential buyer pay you more for it?
I know you can buy an electronic ignition kit for older cars with points. The kit comes with a new distributor and the electronic control module box and instructions. It is not difficult to install.
If you are planning on getting used parts from a Toyota with later electronic ignition and CPU and put it into your '92, then I won't even go there. There are so many variables and potential problems and issues that you may encounter. I can't help with that since I've never done a Toyota conversion that way, and I don't know what is compatible from one particular year model to another.
Good luck whatever you decide to do!
Terry |
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Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO
| nahh, I'm not going to sell the car yet. I just feel the need to get the car in good shape. What about this kit you're talking about, can you point to one to see what is about??
I wasn't really planning to do that (conversion) I just wanted to know which I was missing. Mechanics told me they can do the conversion, I was assumming that a tercel, wich has a similar engine as mine, only bigger (3E tercel vs 2E my car), would be the place to look for the necessary parts. BTW; there was version of the engine on my car that had EFI, and so electronic distributor type.
thanks! |
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3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| reply to Angralitux
Sorry to chime in so late.
Carb'd versions of the 3E also had a self contained full electronic distributor.
I wouldn't imagine this would be a difficult or expensive conversion.
You are most likely to need the distributor from a Carb'd version, as it will have the advance weights etc...
Having said that, a set of points isn't going to be that expensive or difficult to set up (for a tech who knows points - there is a generation or two out there who do not know points).
--
I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect. |
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wenter99
HardRock Houdini
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join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
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| reply to Angralitux
said by Angralitux :What about this kit you're talking about, can you point to one to see what is about?? Examples:
Here's one...
Here's another...
And another...
And so on...
said by Angralitux :Mechanics told me they can do the conversion, I was assumming that a tercel, wich has a similar engine as mine, only bigger (3E tercel vs 2E my car), would be the place to look for the necessary parts. BTW; there was version of the engine on my car that had EFI, and so electronic distributor type. thanks! I understand. That may be an easy swap and work out fine, but I just don't know. I have no idea what is and what is not interchangeable between different year Toyotas.
Terry |
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Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO | how interesting... the first one looks like a complete sytem, but, will these work on my car?? I will post pictures of the thing dissasembled as soon as I get to my home. It doesnt seem too complicate thing to do. |
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Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO | reply to wenter99
the links #2 and #3 are the same... after a good look at link #1, I think it seems like it will fit my engine :O |
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wenter99
HardRock Houdini
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join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
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| I guess I forgot to copy this one >>> The Missing Link  .
The pictures in those ads are examples. They give you a general idea of what you will get. When you order for your specific year and make of car, they'll send you the correct kit that may or may not look exactly like the picture.
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"Sometimes all you can do is just hunker down and take it, like a jackass caught out in a hail storm". LBJ |
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3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| For that first one, they list the same item number for vehicles that are clearly not interchangable.
Here it is for a Crown Vic:
»www.jcwhitney.com/ELECTRONIC-IGN···0101.jcw
--
I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect. |
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wenter99
HardRock Houdini
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join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
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edit:
July 3rd, @12:10PM
| Most, if not all, OEM ignition and emission controls on Toyotas are made by Bosch. Other than that I can't explain discrepencies in the Whitney catalog. I'm just trying to give the OP an idea of what aftermarket stuff may be available for his vehicle...
Terry
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"Sometimes all you can do is just hunker down and take it, like a jackass caught out in a hail storm". LBJ |
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Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO
| reply to 3SGTE
I got your point 3SGTE , the pic is just for ad purposes, is not the exact described.
Ok, what I meant is that this distributor on the picture, is very simmilar to the one on the car. I found this pic, wich I posted a while ago, you can see the locking clips there, and size is simmilar too.
»/r0/download/1···tom).JPG |
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3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| reply to wenter99
said by wenter99 :Most, if not all, OEM ignition and emission controls on Toyotas are made by Bosch. That is not true.
In a few parts of the world, on a few selected models, Bosch might make some parts.
Denso is by far the largest supplier of electronics to Toyota.
said by wenter99 :Other than that I can't explain discrepencies in the Whitney catalog. I'm just trying to give the OP an idea of what's available to him. Terry And I just wanted to point out to the OP that there is a good chance that distributor won't fit.
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I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect. |
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Angralitux
join:2004-05-20
DO | reply to wenter99
And thanks for explaining, very helpful info posted by you here! |
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Victory
join:2005-11-11
Pawcatuck, CT
| reply to Angralitux
Just checked this thread. With a break point distributor the very first thing I replace is the condenser, cheap and easy. Seen people replace the whole fuel system including tank to find it was a bad condenser.
Of course anytime I buy a used car I replace points, cap, wires, condenser, plugs and change the oil and filter. Then change the gas filter and clean the carb and linkage with carb cleaner really good. When cleaning carb make sure the engine doesn't stall and do this before I change the plugs.
Hope this helps.
My 1960 Ranchero has a pointless distributor. The first one crapped out after about 40 miles. The second one is about 3 years old now. All it does is replace the distributor and coil. You don't install any computer. I recommend this if you need major repair on the distributor. The new one gives lot more fire to the plugs and eliminates the need to reset points and no condenser. I think mine was $187 new. |
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3SGTE
ST215W
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join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| reply to Angralitux
The coil is under the cap. |
(Note that this is an electronic one, it does not have the vacuum advance.) |
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wenter99
HardRock Houdini
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join:2003-12-09
Albuquerque, NM
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edit:
July 3rd, @03:30PM
| reply to Angralitux
said by Angralitux :And thanks for explaining, very helpful info posted by you here! You're welcome Angralitux. It was my pleasure chatting with you!
The links I posted were for reference only. I wasn't even suggesting you buy anything from J.C. Whitney. If you decide to buy a conversion kit, there are probably a thousand other websites out there that sell them.
Now that 3SGTE has come on scene and rescued the thread, perhaps he can answer your original question about retro-fitting the Tercel 3E electronic ignition distributor and components into your '92 Corolla 2E engine. I'm more curious about that.
So long,
Terry |
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