SandShark
So it goes
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Oil Changing Services (Business Practices)
Yesterday, our 18-year-old daughter took her car ('07 Scion tC) to Kwik Kar Lube and Tune to have the oil and filter changed. The "technician" called her out to the garage area and suggested the car needed a $90 Wynn's Fuel System Tune-Up Service because the car had 20K miles, the service was recommended scheduled maintenance and it would only take 7 minutes. As with most kids her age who don't know any better, she gave them the okay. Of course, I didn't find out all of this until after the fact and, needless to say, I'm not very happy.
Tomorrow, I will be paying a visit to the owner. At that time, I will hand him a copy of the Scion Scheduled Maintenance Guide showing there is no recommended fuel system tune-up service and let him know he will no longer be performing any type of service on our three personal vehicles and my company vehicle.
Before I do, though, I'd like to know if there are any valid reasons the fuel injection tune-up service should have been suggested/performed and, if there are no valid reasons, what would motivate a legitimate business owner to push unneeded and unscheduled services on his/her loyal customers other than dishonesty and greed?
I'm in the HVAC/R service business. I know how easy it can be to take advantage of unknowing and naive customers. In many cases, it's easier than taking candy from a baby. However, because I respect and appreciate our loyal customers, I have never suggested a repair or a preventative maintenance service that wasn't needed and when suggesting such a repair or maintenance service, I either show them the part needing repaired or replaced and/or explain why it would be in the system's and their best interest that the repair and/or maintenance be performed. I look forward to hearing your opinions. Thanks!
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| There is absolutely no reason, and that was a suggested service add-on pushed on her falsely as a Required Service item that she didn't need and the vehicle didn't require. It may have been different if she had taken the vehicle in with complaints of poor drivability issues but as it is still under warranty it would have gone to the Dealer and not a quick change shop. Fuel System /Injector Cleaning at 20K is just too close to being a theft.
Why didn't she call you from the shop? Make her understand to always call before approving any extras in the future.
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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sailor
Premium
join:2003-10-21
Long Island
| reply to SandShark
I would go back like you planned to but don't expect to get anywhere except to let them know they lost your business...there is a chance they never even did what they charged your daughter for....
Many, but not all, quick lube joints have shown to be very sleazy and there are many innocent victims out there, like your daughter...
Take a look at this..different quick lube place but still one that many use everyday.
»youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI |
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SandShark
So it goes
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds  :There is absolutely no reason, and that was a suggested service add-on pushed on her falsely as a Required Service item that she didn't need and the vehicle didn't require. It may have been different if she had taken the vehicle in with complaints of poor drivability issues but as it is still under warranty it would have gone to the Dealer and not a quick change shop. Fuel System /Injector Cleaning at 20K is just too close to being a theft. Why didn't she call you from the shop? Make her understand to always call before approving any extras in the future. Thanks for your input. The vehicle was performing fine. I drove it the day before. I forgot to mention that the vehicle had been to the dealership recently. At that time, any preventative maintenance that was required was performed.
Why didn't she call? Well, that's a good question and one I asked her myself. The answer wasn't a very good one. If you have teenagers yourself, you'll understand. If not, it's really hard to explain why they do what they do.  |
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Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
clubs: | reply to SandShark
I guess I'm a weird teenager because I dont spend $90 extra dollars for something I know nothing about.
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Ever wonder about the stars? |
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TheHarvester
join:2006-08-25
Dana Point, CA
| reply to SandShark
It's a money maker. There is no way to tell a person they need a fuel system service with any certainty. There are some instances that it will help a vehicle but only a visual demonstration of the injector spray pattern will confirm this. Most fuels nowadays does a good job of keeping the fuel system clean.
Some people will disagree with this but Top tier fuel is supposed to be better at it (I personally believe it is). The only part of a fuel system cleaning that will help anything is the induction cleaning process. This is where they inject a cleaning solvent into the intake system which cleans the inside of the intake manifold. With most cars being port fuel injection (injectors at the intake port right near the intake valves), a clean intake manifold is not a very big issue because the buildup of oils inside it can not soak up any fuel because there is no fuel flowing through it.
As far as a "recommended scheduled maintenance" it may be part of Quik Kar's recommended schedule. Anyone can recommend anything at any interval. That doesn't make it right but on the other hand doesn't make it illegal.
I would still let them know how you feel about it and what they are going to loose.
It's like when my Boss went to buy his Tahoe, the salesman told him the GMC has 5 more horsepower due to the design of the grill. Obviously he did not know he was talking to an automotive repair shop owner/mechanic. |
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TheHarvester
join:2006-08-25
Dana Point, CA
| reply to sailor
said by sailor :Many, but not all, quick lube joints have shown to be very sleazy and there are many innocent victims out there, like your daughter... Unfortunately for the many honest shops with real technicians, it is not limited to only the quick lube type of business. And it is not just the small hole in the wall shops either, some big name chain stores have been caught red handed many times. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
| reply to SandShark
said by SandShark :Why didn't she call? Well, that's a good question and one I asked her myself. The answer wasn't a very good one. If you have teenagers yourself, you'll understand. If not, it's really hard to explain why they do what they do. I hear you load and clear. I've got a 17 y/o son and I fully understand.  
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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Kibbles
Premium
join:1999-07-31
Mission Viejo, CA
edit:
June 22nd, @04:36PM
| reply to TheHarvester
I would think with what happened to Sears's Automotive... shops would have learned not to rip off the consumer...I guess not.  |
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mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
edit:
June 22nd, @04:54PM
| reply to SandShark
What a scam... Unfortunately, as mentioned this gives ALL shops a bad name. There are times when fuel injection service or cleaning is a good idea. Not very likely at 20k though, for sure.
The bad part is those poor fools working at those shops don't get paid diddly, and the only hope they have of earning a decent wage is by forcing this kind of work on un-knowing people who are intimidated by such tactics. It stinks... |
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mityfowl
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
edit:
June 22nd, @07:30PM
| reply to SandShark
I have 19 year old daughter and she won't call when she should and will call to just chat! That's kids. I try not to get upset for my $189 cell bill.
I have to keep reminding myself to just shut the f#ck up.
You do need to say something to the owner. Something like how would you like you're daughter treated like this. |
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X Man
Sober
Premium
join:2005-09-05
USA
| reply to SandShark
Good thread.
Of course what they did is a bit of a scam, and certainly a rip off. That's about $88 of pure profit.
However, your daughter is an adult [albeit a brand new one  ] and this was really a pretty inexpensive lesson for her. Obviously, there will be plenty of people she'll deal with in the future that may not have her best interests at heart. Not everybody is as ethical a business man as her Dad.
With that said, I'd like to play devil's advocate here. How is this any different than any other "up-sell", in any other industry? Happens everywhere, from Best Buy to your local Restaurant. It's not wholly un-American to sell people shit that they really don't need. Whole industries have been built on that very premise.
Of course, you vote with your wallet and the $88 profit they conned your daughter out of has lost them a lot more potential profit than that from you going forward.
Regards,
Mike |
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tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
 ·Comcast
| reply to SandShark
My parents took their vehicle into the local dealership for an oil chance and walked away with a $400 bill. One of the items done was to have the anti-freeze replaced. 100k fluid changed by dealership at 40k. I told my parents this and they called the dealership. Dealership stated that _they_ recommend the fluid be changed at 40k. Appears the dealership knows more about the engine then the people who make it.
I won't get into the time my parents did me a favor and took my car into a place for an oil change and they replaced my K&N air filter that was 3 months old with a $10 filter.
Let your daughter know its not just 18 year olds that get scammed (my parents are 80 and they know better).
I took my car into the dealership for an oil change at 8.5k. Manual recommends change every 7.5k. Dealership put a sticker on the vehicle to bring it back at 11.5, 3,000 miles later.
Years ago I took my truck into a place that had an oil special. They recommended the serpentine belt be replaced for $90 ($20 belt that takes 10 minutes to replace). I declined and they came back to tell me that the manager was worried about me driving the truck like that so he was willing to lower the price. I declined. Belt lasted another 4 years before the tension pulley failed and took a chunk out of it (it still made it 60 miles home).
Those lube places make tons of money not on the business of changing oil, rather on scamming people for maintenance that is not needed.
My recommendation, go there when it's busy and make sure you have the conversation in front of as many marks, I mean customers as possible.
Now when I am faced with idiots like these I make it a point to let them know how stupid and insulting their recommendations are. Whenever possible I like to break out the owners manual, sit down, and read it together with them. I figure if they are going to try and treat me like an idiot, returning the pleasure is only fair. |
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SandShark
So it goes
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to X Man
I still get taken advantage of and I'm 53 years old. However, there's "up-sell" and then there's dishonesty and deception. Asking if I'd like fries with my Whopper is a lot different than lying to me about service my car doesn't need or require. One is acceptable and one is not acceptable. When I get through talking to the owner, he'll know the difference.
I'll admit my daughter has a lot to learn about life and the miscreants she'll run into on her journeys . I and my wife have tried our damnedest to prepare her, but we missed this lesson. I guess after I have my little talk with the owner and explain to him why this little "up-sell" is going to cost him a lot more than he might realize, I'll thank him for the $90 lesson, too. Who knows? He might have saved my daughter a lot more than that in the long run. |
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mityfowl
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
edit:
June 23rd, @01:43AM
| I think the Kwik by my house is basically honest but I'm not as sure as I used to be.
They came back with 4 things on my x wifes honda and I don't agree:
The other items Kwik oil mentioned were:
Transmission service due to the the car almost at 60,000 (recommended miles to do that) $110
P/S Flush $79.99 (not sure what that is)
Fuel system service $69.00……..they wrote this down last time in October to be done
Replace battery…….$110 (said this was urgent……….I do not have the receipt from Autozone showing we ever bought a battery for this car?) Did we? Or am I running on the original battery?
So I said lets wait (since I am paying)
And damn if that battery is only 2 years old. Makes you wonder.
And my daughter has a lot to learn too. |
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Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
clubs:
edit:
June 23rd, @10:43AM
| Transmission service - Maybe/Maybe Not = Check your Owner's Manual first and then call the Dealer for their service specials price to compare.
Power Steering. Do that yourself for under $20.00 dollars. All you need is 2 to 4 bottles of fluid, and a turkey baster or battery bulb or suction bulb. Take old fluid in a one gallon milk jug to quick oil change place for their recycler/disposal. Instruction in topics below:
»Power Steering Flush
»[Help] Burned power steering fluid
»[Help] power steering ?
»Any rule of thumb for getting fluids changed?
When is the Fuel Filter due according to your Owner's Manual? I'd replace that before I'd pay for a system cleaning and I'd rather buy two bottles of Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner and use it per the printed instructions (add cleaner to tank before fill-up, skip the cleaner on the second fill-up and then use the second bottle of cleaner on the third fill-up). Works as good as their 6 times more expensive service.
Battery? It should have the Brand Name of course so you can track who made it, where you purchased it and there should be a Date Code either melted/stamped into the Case or a Sticker with a Date Code printed on it. Assuming you cannot find receipt. Bottom Line, go else where for a battery as the Auto Zones and Advance Auto will install the battery for you N/C no charge.
Car Batteries - Date Codes
»www.allpar.com/fix/batteries.html
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What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time? |
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markwp2001
Spreadhead
Premium
join:2002-05-25
Long Beach, MS
| reply to SandShark
I sympathize with you, and would be very upset if that happened to one of my children.
Very lucky here, there is a locally-owned oil change shop that is just terrific. They never, and I mean never try to sell you something you don't need. As a result, we are loyal customers with 3 (soon to be 4) vehicles that we service there. And I go out of my way to recommend them to others.
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LHF's Football Master 2006 |
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Fir_Na_Tine
Premium
join:2001-01-03
Clementon, NJ
·Comcast
| reply to SandShark
I will never take my car to these places for work or oil change. You also have to worry about the skills too of the mechanics, my brother went to one of those quick lube places and they ended up over filling the car with oil causing problems and smoking of the car.
Better to find a trusted garage thru family or friends and get work done, even if it costs a bit more, or learn to do it yourself like me.
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"Shut up brain or I'll stab ya with a Q-Tip"- Homer Simpson |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to SandShark
$90 upsell is nothing these days -- wife took car in to a Firestone place to look into a sound while braking...
They tried to tell her (a) it was rubbing metal on metal, needed to replace the brake pads immediately or she was in physical danger, (b) sur-charge for ABS brakes (her car doesn't have ABS), and two or three other recommended services totalling over $500...
Luckily my wife is smart enough to question all that and called me. Drove to the dealer who we trust who basically said brake pads aren't even ready to change until next checkup, nothing urgent (so much for metal on metal)... |
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SandShark
So it goes
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to SandShark
Update
Well, things went about how I expected they would go. The good part is I didn't end up in jail, but the bad part is nothing was resolved.
I had hashed and rehashed in my mind how I was going to approach the situation. I decided, since I was at his place of business and on his property, I should take the reasonable, rational and restrained approach. After waiting for him to finish with a customer, I went up to the counter and asked if he was the owner. I asked if he had a few minutes to discuss an incident that occurred with my daughter over the weekend. At that time I put a copy of the maintenance schedule on the counter. As soon as I said those words and he saw the maintenance schedule, I could immediately see him tense up. He said, "Yeah, I remember your daughter. What's the problem?" I asked, "Why did your people tell her that her car needed a $90 fuel injection tune-up service when the maintenance schedule says differently and what criteria do they use to make that determination?" He told me his guys suggest the service to all their customers every 12K miles and it's up to the customer after that, and that all my daughter had to do was say no. I asked if he thought a teenager would know enough about cars to make an informed decision and I suggested my daughter had been taken advantage of because she didn't know any better.
That's when things went downhill. He told me he didn't have time to "argue" with me and that he didn't have to justify anything to me because his guys didn't force my daughter to buy the service. Seeing that I was fighting a losing battle and that my blood pressure was rising, I took one last parting shot by telling him that we have been customers for years and that we wouldn't be coming back. He turned his back on me, didn't respond and exited through a door to the garage area. For a brief second, I thought about following him and letting loose George Carlin's seven dirty words, but I couldn't see any benefits in doing that. Besides, I could see he wasn't too happy and that calling the cops was probably his next move. So, that's that. End of story. |
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