Cable has so much potential in Cable users http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20627106 en Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:46:13 EDT Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:46:13 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20725266 MadMANN :
said by whizkid3 See Profile :

the cable company can not simply flip a few switches... If they could, they would do so.

What do ya mean? That's exactly what many people think techs do all day. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20725266 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:17:33 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20724703 whizkid3 :
said by MadMANN See Profile :

There are equipment upgrades that can be done without "ripping" everything apart.
No doubt - good point. I think its in line with what I said; that the cable company can not simply flip a few switches... If they could, they would do so.

What is most important here, is that there are physical limitations on the data rate - constraints in the whole end-to-end system. There are two main ways that the data rate in a digital communications channel can be increased:

- increase the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR)
- increases in coding technology that allow more bits to be delivered per symbol

The first can be done by, for example, an increase of the power into the system; an improvement in the shielding of the cable itself; an improvement in the fiber portion of the system; installing RF amplifiers that generate a lower amount of noise; better cable modems; etc. All of which require (sometimes extensive) changes in hardware. The SNR has been the limiting factor in hybrid fiber-coax (HFC) systems. This is why that often improvements in data rate can not be made without ripping everything apart. (Sometimes they can, but not in every system.)

The second can be done with a coding improvement in the CMTS itself. By coding, I am referring to how the data is coded into transmittable symbols. However, very often while the CMTS could support more 'advanced' coding rates, higher SNRs in a particular HFC system are the limiting factor here as well. (i.e. the cable company using 256-QAM over 16-QAM. See attached chart. Note that the numbers in this chart are for DOCSIS 1.0 and are not the top end data rate, but Mbps per MHz of bandwidth. I don't have a chart comparing DOCSIS 3.0 modulation types.) Again, the SNR is the limiting factor. Often to make improvements on this end; again the cable company may have to rip everything apart. (Not always, but often.) Another point to note regarding coding improvements, is that some increase latency. This is often undesirable to gamers, for example.

Yes, its great that DOCSIS 3.0 is here, and can provide some faster data rates (speeds). However, simply switching to DOCSIS 3.0 doesn't guarantee the top-end speeds. Often very expensive and/or time consuming upgrades may be necessary. Cable companies are not going to make these changes without a business case and finacial incentive. (This often means competition from FIOS or raising your monthly fees.)
Click for full size
DOCSIS 1.0 Mbps per MHz
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20724703 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:18:34 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20721283 MadMANN :
said by whizkid3 See Profile :

Your connection can just can not reach the maximum possible speed that the DOCSIS spec requires the CMTS to handle. To do so could require the cable company to rip out their entire cable plant, amplifiers, etc - and replace it.
Not entirely true. There are equipment upgrades that can be done without "ripping" everything apart. Yes, some amps and headend equipment. As a matter of fact, many areas are upgrading to a higher capacity and installing the multiple CMTS reqired for DOCSIS 3.0. So, in fact, HFC systems can compete for a long time.

My opinion on the OPs point is that they are all being upgraded as more competition rises. For example, you will see cable companies competing with FiOS upgrading their systems before you will see another with no or only dish competition. In fact, the whole reason cable is where it is now is because of the dish. If not for them coming out and offering interactive guides and digital technology, the HFC system may not have been launched when it was. Same thing with FiOS. Verizon (Formerly Bell Atlantic) could and should have brought FTTH 13 years ago when they promised PA residents. They didn't, and now they are desperately trying to play catch up. But if not for the HFC system, who knows how long it would have taken them to even attempt to do what they are doing now. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20721283 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:45:01 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706718 Rombus : @joos

Got to agree with whizkid3 here. I assume you mean that most cable systems are 1ghz, when infact, only the most recent ones are 1ghz. I would venture to say your "average" cable system is built to 850mhz, and if its older, 750mhz.

Your also frogetting about the cost on docsis 3 equipment upgrades, etc.

Wikipedia does not make you an expert on something. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706718 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:31:50 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706047 whizkid3 :
said by joos See Profile :

Whizkid, you have no idea what your talking about.most cable systems amps,nodes, cmts, fiber, coax, are at a minimum of 1G
I beg to differ, joos. I was a project engineer in the communications field for over 8 years and designed some of the most complex fiber and coax systems there are - including cable head-ends.

If the cable companies could simply flip a switch or re-program a CMTS; they would certainly do it.

On the other hand, joos, you don't even know the proper abbreviations for bit rate. What the hell is '1G'? What does FIOS have to do with DOCSIS? Come back when you learn what noise temperature and bit energy are. (You may need a masters degree and at least few years of experience in digital communications.) Then maybe you'll have a partial understanding of the physical laws that govern these systems and we can talk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20706047 Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:25:13 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20703781 joos : Whizkid, you have no idea what your talking about.most cable systems amps,nodes, cmts, fiber, coax, are at a minimum of 1G quite capable of docsis3 limits.certain rural areas are exempt,its called supply and demand.when there is a need for faster speeds they will come. for instance.Fios offers 50 down 10 up.comcast offers 50 30 up.and in some states 160/120.channel bonding opens up unlimited posibalitys]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20703781 Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:52:50 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20629589 whizkid3 : Unfortunately the speeds you read on Wikipedia are the maximum channel speeds; not those of your modems or connection.

The cable company can not simply ramp up the channel to the maximum possible speeds. It maximum bit rate depends on many technical factors in the design of the system and its physical characteristics of it and its environment. The maximum channel speed - that is shared by all users & upstream and downstream communications - is often fixed at a lower speed because its simply held back by the laws of physics. Your connection can just can not reach the maximum possible speed that the DOCSIS spec requires the CMTS to handle. To do so could require the cable company to rip out their entire cable plant, amplifiers, etc - and replace it. Its not happening.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20629589 Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:54:33 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627218 Rob :
said by attsbcisgay See Profile :

I have switched to comcast 6/1 3 weeks ago for 19.95 6 months promotion then 42.95...
8/2 for 52.00 is not too shabby either.
been with att for 5 years.. from 1.5/256 to 6.0/768.
didn't need landline anymore so there was no reason to be paying 70 dollars month for dsl when better speed can be had for less. att is now imposing usage caps in the near future
Those who need better speed, cable is definitely better
comcast blast is 16/1, 16/2 only in verizon territory... close to verizon's fios offer but not the same thing. 5/2, 15/2, 15/15, 30/5.
Comcast has a $24.95/mo. 6 month promo for the 8/2 service, if you wanted the 8/2 service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627218 Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:27:43 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627196 attsbcisgay : I have switched to comcast 6/1 3 weeks ago for 19.95 6 months promotion then 42.95...
8/2 for 52.00 is not too shabby either.
been with att for 5 years.. from 1.5/256 to 6.0/768.
didn't need landline anymore so there was no reason to be paying 70 dollars month for dsl when better speed can be had for less. att is now imposing usage caps in the near future
Those who need better speed, cable is definitely better
comcast blast is 16/1, 16/2 only in verizon territory... close to verizon's fios offer but not the same thing. 5/2, 15/2, 15/15, 30/5.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627196 Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:24:06 EDT Re: Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627115 Rob : I would have stayed with AT&T if they had upgraded our area instead of keeping us on 1.5/256. Now I'm with Comcast and I get 8/2 before powerboost.
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www.rr.cx | YourIP.US ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627115 Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:08:56 EDT Cable has so much potential http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627106 attsbcisgay : But cable company only use a fraction of it. Many have 2.0 docsis capable modem that can max out at 42mbit/30mbit
docsis 1.0/1.1 are 42mbit/10mbit
even comcast or timewarner speed tier have not saturated docsis 1.0/1.1 whats the point with docsis 2.0 and 3.0?
docsis 3.0 = 171mbit/122mbit
so the speed is there but they won't make use of it?
to sell to many people with their cap limitation to make more money for the investor?
with cable you get advertised speed for ex. 6/1=750kb/sec,125kb/sec but with dsl
its only 600kb/sec,76kb/sec(6/768k)
also cable has no distance limitation
any user can get all the advertised speed unlike dsl with you will be limited to 6.0,3.0,1.5,768k,384kbps,192kbps or 144kbps depending on your distance.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20627106 Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:06:42 EDT