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« Basic government services first please  
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factchecker

@cox.net

reply to pnh102
Re: Esme Vos the typical liberal

said by pnh102 See Profile :

It is also called the truth.
Still hyperbole. The logical extension from telecom improvements to Bentley requires a SERIOUS stretch.

Internet access, like a Bentley, is a luxury item. People lived for thousands of years without Bentleys or Internet access, and they will continue to do so.
Arguably, that is not the case any more. For example, the number of HR departments that will accept paper applications is declining. In fact, most employers now list only on their own HR websites and no longer in print media.

Wanna get a manual for an appliance? Most manufacturers will no longer send them to you, instead sending you to the internet.

The internet is becoming less a luxury and more like the telephone. And to believe that the internet will always be a luxury is counter the facts on the ground. Corporate America is rapidly converting to the internet as their preferred and, in some cases, sole means of communication.

They also shield taxpayers from paying more and more money for a venture that the local government shouldn't be doing anyway. I say that is a good tradeoff.
I'm more inclined to allow local residents to decide that on their own... State governments are so easily bought off, it isn't even funny. And I'm of the opinion that neither you or I should be determining what is or is not right for a locality, and neither should politicians who take kick backs from incumbents and are clueless about the localities in their state.

I have some friends of mine who use 3G as their primary broadband provider because they cannot get DSL or cable where they are. I am certain they are not the only people who do this either. In a sense, whether or not it was intended, 3G is being used as a replacement for wired broadband.
I'd like to let you know that your friends may very well run afoul of the providers doing that. I know they are using it as their primary connections, but providers never intended their 3G networks to be used in such a manner. Additionally, 3G networks are not designed for that type of use.

Just a friendly heads up.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

said by factchecker :

Still hyperbole.
Again, the fact that it is a irrefutable truth renders such a judgement irrelevant.
said by factchecker :

For example, the number of HR departments that will accept paper applications is declining. In fact, most employers now list only on their own HR websites and no longer in print media.

Wanna get a manual for an appliance? Most manufacturers will no longer send them to you, instead sending you to the internet.
People can still use dialup or a public library for these things.
said by factchecker :

Corporate America is rapidly converting to the internet as their preferred and, in some cases, sole means of communication.
So why give a handout to Corporate America? If private companies want broadband, let them pay for it.
said by factchecker :

I'm more inclined to allow local residents to decide that on their own...
So then when the next "free" fad comes along, it would be ok for local residents to vote themselves that too? Especially when it comes from the backs of other taxpayers? If I were an enterprising politician... I would promise free Bentleys.
said by factchecker :

State governments are so easily bought off, it isn't even funny.
So can local government. In many regards, local governments create more of an impediment to broadband than anything else by making ridiculous demands from ISPs in exchange for the right to conduct business.
said by factchecker :

And I'm of the opinion that neither you or I should be determining what is or is not right for a locality, and neither should politicians who take kick backs from incumbents and are clueless about the localities in their state.
I am certain that you can find people like me in just about every state. Ergo, I can claim that I speak for them.
said by factchecker :

I'd like to let you know that your friends may very well run afoul of the providers doing that. I know they are using it as their primary connections, but providers never intended their 3G networks to be used in such a manner.
True, true, and I know that in one of those situations Verizon did yank access. However, I think for the most part they don't use enough bandwidth to get noticed.
said by factchecker :

Additionally, 3G networks are not designed for that type of use.
For now.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!


factchecker

@cox.net

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Again, the fact that it is a irrefutable truth renders such a judgement irrelevant.
It is nice to see the meaning of the words "irrefutable" and "truth" being abuse... There is nothing irrefutable about this. The reason there is so much debate on this topic is because of the mixed success of such operations. Any one who claims that every muni operations out there is a failure is either lying or distorting the truth because of an agenda.

People can still use dialup or a public library for these things.
I could show you quite a few HR portals that are so bogged down in useless Flash crap that it would take quite a while to fill out an application as you wait for the pages to load.

As for the library option, keep that in mind next time the library asks for more taxes to pay for the additional computers and bandwidth to meet the demand of the patrons.

So why give a handout to Corporate America? If private companies want broadband, let them pay for it.
Nice diversion there... You shift the demand for broadband from end users to the companies that generate content with the flick of the wrist... Amazing. To bad that isn't how it works.

End users want broadband... Most are willing to pay. The marketplace has failed them. Period.

So then when the next "free" fad comes along, it would be ok for local residents to vote themselves that too? Especially when it comes from the backs of other taxpayers? If I were an enterprising politician... I would promise free Bentleys.
We've hashed this point out... You have your opinion, I have mine.

So can local government. In many regards, local governments create more of an impediment to broadband than anything else by making ridiculous demands from ISPs in exchange for the right to conduct business.
Such as ? I'd like to see some proof that local governments stand in the way of local ISPs. Specific examples please. Note that things like franchise agreements don't apply.

My guess is that you have never worked at/operated an ISP if you make such a statement.

I am certain that you can find people like me in just about every state. Ergo, I can claim that I speak for them.
So? Let them speak their mind at the voting box when measures like this are put up for a vote. Simple as that because in that case, everyone gets to voice their opinion.

True, true, and I know that in one of those situations Verizon did yank access. However, I think for the most part they don't use enough bandwidth to get noticed.
Get ready for that to change. Note the story post this morning about Sprint and other providers moving to caps. It is a capacity issue and it will take years to resolve.

3G is not, nor never was, designed as a last mile replacement technology.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

said by factchecker :

It is nice to see the meaning of the words "irrefutable" and "truth" being abuse... There is nothing irrefutable about this.
A luxury item is still a luxury item. Unless you can furnish proof that vast numbers of people will die without wired broadband, you cannot claim that it is not a luxury.
said by factchecker :

The reason there is so much debate on this topic is because of the mixed success of such operations.
There is also a large number of people who just want another something for nothing. "Free Wireless Internet" is just the latest thing.
said by factchecker :

Any one who claims that every muni operations out there is a failure is either lying or distorting the truth because of an agenda.
My agenda has always been to be opposed to any government-subsidized internet. I do apologize if it appears that I am hiding this agenda. I try to be very open about it.
said by factchecker :

I could show you quite a few HR portals that are so bogged down in useless Flash crap that it would take quite a while to fill out an application as you wait for the pages to load.
So, be patient.
said by factchecker :

As for the library option, keep that in mind next time the library asks for more taxes to pay for the additional computers and bandwidth to meet the demand of the patrons.
Governments have been paying for libraries for thousands of years and they have been a great educational asset to humanity in that time. Griping about spending more money on libraries for Internet is like griping about them spending more money to buy books.
said by factchecker :

Nice diversion there... You shift the demand for broadband from end users to the companies that generate content with the flick of the wrist... Amazing. To bad that isn't how it works.
You were the one who mentioned how Corporate America was crazy about broadband. Again, if they want it, let them pay for it.
said by factchecker :

End users want broadband... Most are willing to pay. The marketplace has failed them. Period.
There's nothing stopping individual end users from investing their own money in their own private Internet venture. If it is such a money maker, I am sure they will make a great return on their investment.
said by factchecker :

We've hashed this point out... You have your opinion, I have mine.
Sadly, no one ever lost an election in this country by promising "free stuff" for people.
said by factchecker :

Note that things like franchise agreements don't apply.
And why not? We saw how FIOS video was held up in NYC (and in other areas) over concerns regarding cherry-picking. The end result of this was no one got any video service. We also saw that in places where there were looser restrictions, such as Indiana, there was broader deployment of service.
said by factchecker :

So? Let them speak their mind at the voting box when measures like this are put up for a vote. Simple as that because in that case, everyone gets to voice their opinion.
So what is wrong with their elected representatives doing this when they pass and enact bills?
said by factchecker :

Get ready for that to change. Note the story post this morning about Sprint and other providers moving to caps. It is a capacity issue and it will take years to resolve.
I'm curious about this too. My personal guess is that Sprint just wants to have a way to cut off people who they believe abuse their service. At the very least Sprint and Verizon advertise their caps, unlike some other ISPs.
said by factchecker :

3G is not, nor never was, designed as a last mile replacement technology.
Phone lines and cable lines were also never designed to carry Internet traffic via DSL and DOCSIS service either, but they do. Technologies change, and are quite adaptable.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!


factchecker

@cox.net


said by factchecker :

Note that things like franchise agreements don't apply.
And why not? We saw how FIOS video was held up in NYC (and in other areas) over concerns regarding cherry-picking. The end result of this was no one got any video service. We also saw that in places where there were looser restrictions, such as Indiana, there was broader deployment of service.
Video service... Not ISP service... Only video service was really affected. Verizon could have easily rolled just data and phone.

There was absolutely no barrier to voice and data service.

said by factchecker :

Get ready for that to change. Note the story post this morning about Sprint and other providers moving to caps. It is a capacity issue and it will take years to resolve.
I'm curious about this too. My personal guess is that Sprint just wants to have a way to cut off people who they believe abuse their service. At the very least Sprint and Verizon advertise their caps, unlike some other ISPs.
Actually, it is a capacity issue. Sprint has started running into issues with backhaul saturation on towers in some of largest markets. Until 4G wireless or greater backhual becomes more readily accessible, the caps will remain.

Hopefully Sprint doesn't pull 5GB caps on their enterprise customers because we'll definitely consider pulling out of our contract if they do.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

said by factchecker :

Video service... Not ISP service... Only video service was really affected. Verizon could have easily rolled just data and phone.
True, but having another video option increases competition. Prices may not go down, but quality will at least go up. Government standing in the way of progress doesn't help anyone here.
said by factchecker :

Actually, it is a capacity issue. Sprint has started running into issues with backhaul saturation on towers in some of largest markets. Until 4G wireless or greater backhual becomes more readily accessible, the caps will remain.
Funny you mention that. It has been said here that Sprint's biggest problem is its customer service. Personally, I think if they fixed all the problems that caused people to contact customer service, they'd be have a much better time doing business than they do now.
said by factchecker :

Hopefully Sprint doesn't pull 5GB caps on their enterprise customers because we'll definitely consider pulling out of our contract if they do.
Considering that they are just going to antagonize more of their users with their latest move... you might wanna get going on that.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!
Forums » San Francisco Still Working on Wi-Fi« Basic government services first please  
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