Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? in WildBlue Satellite http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20383529 en Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:58:14 EDT Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:58:14 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20520664 alhanson : “WB

I am with WildBlue. We do not support VoIP at this time. This is primarily due to the latency inherent in satellite communications. We do not recommend trying VoIP over our Internet service at this time when you have another alternative for voice service.

Thank you.” (WB)

WB, Excuse Me, in 1968 I spend countless hours talking to my Great Uncle Howard Hughes from college over our Satellites. Latency was never an issue. We had to loop the signal around the Earth once for it to become really noticeable. We had to loop the signal around the Earth three times before it became a problem. Using latency as the reason VoIP does not work over Wildblue is totally lame, not true, and an out right lie. Thank you WB, for posting the smoking gun.
“The reason WB doesn't support VoIP has nothing to do with latency - it's all in how they prioritize the protocol.” (//greg//)

Greg VoIP has been on the bottom of Wildblue’s prioritized protocol list from day one. This did little to stop the use of VoIP on Wildblue. The question is, in whose interest is it to stop the use of VoIP on Wildblue? [“….. when you have another alternative for voice service.” (WB)] The prioritized protocol list only works on the network layer of the OSI model. Once a session has been stated and the transport has begun the VoIP is streaming UDP packets, UDP do not have the IP address where there from, only where there going; and thus they can not be prioritized any different than others because they can not be identified. Thus, when Vonage starts up the voice call it is a bumpy road at first, but then when the jitters subsided, it is totally a smooth voice connection. This was true before the implementation of the DMA. What was this DMA? I know what TDMA is (Time Division Multiple Access) but DMA (Direct Memory Access) or (Division Multiple Access) makes no sense in relation to anything. So I just figured DMA is a spin word for some Vaporware that never materialize or existed. Or was it?

About the time of the implementation of the DMA Wildblue snuggled up to a sweetheart deal with AT&T for what reason it was not quite clear. To make my Wildblue system work better I removed all the Wildblue services like Proxy, DNS, Optimizer, and Email which I latter realized had been out sourced. By outsourced I mean they exist out side the NOC and not run by Wildblue. I don’t believe the NOCs are run by Wildblue ether they are run by the people that manufactured it. I don’t believe this DMA update or whatever it was changed them – they are the same old NOCs we had when some of us sign on three years ago. I believe the DMA is AT&Ts baby and has nothing to do with multiplexing and everything to do with traffic shaping. The traffic shapers exist out side the NOCs on some kind of router/server owned by AT&T. There is a static route set to it from with in the NOC which creates the loop – so it loops back in to the NOC. This would explain the long ping times. This would explain the fictional FAP. This would explain the horrible experiences some people are having with Wildblue when they get caught up in this loop. By traffic shaping I mean a mechanical generated slot of no transmission for the purpose of killing any VoIP transmission upon the detection of any such activity. Why? Greed! John D Rockefeller did the same kind of thing with small trunk railroad lines that connected the bigger railroad company together – this is why we have Anti Trust Laws on the books today.

There some in Canada that believe the DMA is something that is installed on the NOC and there are A beams with the DMA installed on them and B beams with no DMA installed on them. I do not believe this. I believe there are two routes and A route and a B route. The A route loops back over the traffic shaper and the B route goes straight though the NOC.
No doubt, AT&T and Wildblue were planning to charge the satellite users 20 more dollars to be put on the B route so they could use VoIP split the difference and be laughing and counting their money all the way to the bank.

In conclusion, Google Talk is able to defeat the AT&T and Wildblue traffic shaper. Google Talk uses VOP (Voice over Packet) architecture, SIP (Session Initiation Protocol), and SCTP (Stream Control Transmission Protocol). SCTP can still assemble the VOP packets on ether end of the conversation no matter how mixed up the latency and traffic shaper makes them unlike the VoIP packets. Also note, Hughes Spaceway III uses blades of VOP chips controlled by RISC chips that can switch VOP packets at 2 Gbps. The NOCs to be used with Spaceway III will also use these same VOP chips. The bottom line is! Who you are! What you believe! And what you plan to do about it!

Al ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20520664 Wed, 21 May 2008 22:06:13 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20515172 grohgreg :
said by WB See Profile :

This is primarily due to the latency inherent in satellite communications.
If you're with WB, it's obviously not in a technical capacity. Every GEO satellite connection in the world deals with the very same latency. VoIP works just fine on many of them. Matter of fact, TeleSat/XploreNet is sharing the same satellite as WB (Anik-F2), and reportedly delivers quite usable VoIP service to Canadian customers.

The reason WB doesn't support VoIP has nothing to do with latency - it's all in how they prioritize the protocol

//greg//
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HN7000S/74cm/1w/ProPlus - G16/1250H/Germantown - NAT 66.82.187.152/Gateway 66.82.25.10/DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 3 - AVG+Firewall v7.5]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20515172 Tue, 20 May 2008 23:06:48 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20514042 WB : I am with WildBlue. We do not support VoIP at this time. This is primarily due to the latency inherent in satellite communications. We do not recommend trying VoIP over our Internet service at this time when you have another alternative for voice service.

Thank you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20514042 Tue, 20 May 2008 19:13:37 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484655 grohgreg : »www.magicjack.com/5/faq/

//greg//]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20484655 Wed, 14 May 2008 23:13:41 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483422 sboe : Alhanson I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Thanks for clearing up everything and thanks for the advice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20483422 Wed, 14 May 2008 19:38:25 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409303 anon : MagicJack operates off of the Microsoft Telnet protocol, which is the same protocol used by netmeeting and Microsoft Office. I had a devil of a time closing it, but not because of Magic Jack. Microsoft Office kept it open. Once I took out my firewall exceptions for Office, the port returned to stealth.

Trust me, I've heard all of the alarms. Yes, MagicJack is supposed to operate off of an ad based business model, but then so does Google and many other programs we use every day. MagicJack is no safer and no more problematic than any other program and certainly is not as dangerous as tracking cookies and web beacons we encounter everyday while we surf the Internet. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20409303 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:19:14 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20408995 alhanson : Magicjack installs a back door on you computer. A back door is a two way street. Then Magicjack install their ad ware on your computer. It collects your personal and private information, about what you do, where you go, and other information about you. Then it sends this information to Magicjack and they sell it to third parities, or who ever they can get to buy it. This is how they make there money. I do not know how to make this any clearer. It not the incoming that’s the problem it is the out going you don’t see. The ad ware is always calling home. The up link on the satellite is the most vulnerable and is going to slow you down if it is always spitting updates out every time you turn around.

al]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20408995 Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:15:12 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20403543 anon : We saw these ads on our Direct TV and my husband was wondering about "MagicJack". Thanks for the explanations. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20403543 Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:23:30 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20390089 anon : I'll answer your question without all the crap. MagicJack is a product designed to work with broadband Internet. Sure, it's ad supported. That part is true. I have one myself that I use on cable Internet, but am yet to see a single ad. Even if they do ads, they're confined to a window on their soft phone you never have to see if you don't want. The main problem with MagicJack is it does have a number of dedicated detractors who love to talk out of the top of their head to save the trouble of trying something new. I was a skeptic, but I tried it given that every phone call in Alaska is long distance. I must say, I'm both surprised and impressed because the little dangle paid for itself the first month I owned it. For anyone who doubts me, check my ISP and you will see I am a true Alaskan who lives on the fringe of the planet and not a salesman.

As for the satellite question, I used satellite for a number of years before I moved to where cable Internet is available. I can safely say that MagicJack more than likely will not work well with satellite for two reasons. First, you need about 90-100 K both directions to make it work correctly. Also, the latency will kill the quality of your phone call. I simply don't recommend it for satellite, but would consider it for EVDO, WISP, DSL, or Cable simply because their latency and speed are much better equipped to handle VOIP bandwidth demands.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20390089 Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:40:13 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20388455 alhanson : Thanks Spice.

Magicjack makes you sign a contract with them. It is all in there contract – their right to install the adware. If you try to block it or remove it you void the contract. Thus the appliance will not work. And of course they are not liable for anything the adware might do to mess up your system.

Al]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20388455 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:41:08 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20387245 Spice300 : I personally have not experimented with VOIP through Wildblue, but I have been reading this forum for more than 2 years. There have been several threads about VOIP posted in the Wildblue forum. The reports were that VOIP was laggy but functional before WB implemented a DAMA scheduler in November 2006. The DAMA scheduler increased the latency from about 650 ms to 1,300 ms and made it variable. There are reports that the Canadian version of WB, Telesat, gives priority to VOIP packets making it work well. WB does not give priority to VOIP packets. The audio tends to drop out when using VOIP with WB. Some VOIP systems work better than others, but nearly everyone who has reported, treats it as a novelty rather than a serious phone line.

If Alhanson is correct about Magicjack installing adware into your computer, then the service may also consume your limited FAP and be extremely difficult to uninstall. It could also slow your Internet speeds with massive downloads of flash video making VOIP drop out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20387245 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:53:51 EDT Re: Here we go again http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20386369 alhanson : sboe,

I am sorry if you misunderstood my intent. The Guy I was referring to was MagicJack (the marketer). He is marketing cheap VoIP in exchange for the ability to flood your computer with advertising. I am trying to warn you not to become his next victim. The VoIP threads never stay around on this Forum long enough for anyone to post their experiences with the MagicJack post advertising.

dbirdman you are missing the point! The MagicJack creates a Back door into the computer it is plugged into! With a back door the computer can be compromised with a “not_wildblue_file” which can contain scripts to regulate the advanced setting on the computers NIC. Also using the clock on the computer one can turn on the script at 4:00 PM and off at 12:00 AM thus regulating the speed of the computer s connection. This is simple script kiddy stuff. How can an Internet Service Provider defended against attacks caused by the stupidity of it users? Dang they left the door open and let them in.

Al ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20386369 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:22:45 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20386327 shoe1 : sboe please don't this alhanson guy scare you away from this the WB forum he is just trying to start something, just go look at his other posts...he is just a troller that is better left blocked.

back on topic...if your trying to use voip with WB there is no way to get around the lag it's still going to have to travel 22,000 miles up and down and then to the internet. ever voip service can use land line phones, most anyway, that just mean you can use your regular phone with the service as mic and voice receiver it is still going though the laggy WB system.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20386327 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:17:56 EDT Re: Here we go again http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20386014 dbirdman :
said by alhanson See Profile :

VoIP Threads always get deleted and bashed by other users on this Forum.
There have been lots of threads about VoIP that don't get deleted - only the ones where the guy is pretending to be asking, but is actually selling.

I'm not thrilled about all of the hype about MagicJack, but there is a paid option that doesn't use ads.

As far as a "landline phone" the word "landline" is misleading. A phone is a phone is a phone, and there is no question using an actual phone provides better communication than any speaker/mic combination. You don't have to go with MagicJack to get that, however. I use a D-Link USB-to-phone connector with a 5.8GHz cordless phone using Skype; just one of many possibilities.
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W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|iDirect 3100 on Datastorm 1.2 meter XF3 with 4-watt BUC|HughesNet IA8/1390/7000s Pro on 2-watt Datastorm G74|Sprint Broadband U595+MBR1000 router+Wilson Antenna/Amp|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge Bus "Blue Thunder"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20386014 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:33:36 EDT Re: Here we go again http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20385599 alhanson : No sboe! This is just information About MagicJack posted before that got deleted. VoIP Threads always get deleted and bashed by other users on this Forum. For some of us VoIP is our only choice. Google Talk from computer to computer is the only voice application that work well with Wildblue at this time. I use it all the Time. Its just the Forum will not let there be a thread for those of us interested in VoIP.

al ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20385599 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:35:12 EDT Re: Here we go again http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20384644 sboe : Alhanson I was asking a innocent question, I haven't changed my tag line since I switched to Wildblue about a month ago. I just read about magicjack from their website and I had no clue about anything you posted about. So if you are accusing me of trying to get people to use it then your wrong.
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HN7000s/Pro+/G16 99 West 970 MHz/Vista Home Premium/Linksys wired router/Athlon 6000+/.74 dish]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20384644 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:54:03 EDT Here we go again http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20383639 alhanson : Greg this guy is not a fool he is a Con Artist. His thread should not be deleted from the forum. His Con should be exposed in this thread for the good of all people that use Hughes Satellite. He is promising really cheep VoiP with this device that plugs into the USB of your computer. I believe the device is called the magicjack or something like that. Here is the CON!!! To use the device you have to accept the terms of agreement. The reason the VoiP is so cheep! Because! The VoiP is supported by Advertizing. By accepting the terms of agreement you have just install a back door into your computer for the Advertizing, spam, and all the free stuff that come with it like worms and virus. This is just a Con to get Advertizing into your computer the VoiP is only secondary to this even if it would work at all. What I learn when I was a child was to always read the fine print and then read the specifications. The smoking gun in the terms of agreement you can not have a router running NAT that is also using the ALG protocol. The bottom line is: enough people using Hughes Satellite were to fall for this Con and install this device on there computers they could cut the quality and throughput for everyone else they were sharing there connection with in half. I am interested in putting this dude out of business permanently through exposing him.

al ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20383639 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:23:32 EDT Re: Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20383529 shoe1 : how is it using a land line with wildblue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20383529 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 00:48:44 EDT Has anyone tried Magicjack with Wildblue? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20381746 sboe : I know that VoIP has alot of limitations due to latency but Magicjack claims it has a better sound with less delay due to using a land line phone. Has anyone tested it out?
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HN7000s/Pro+/G16 99 West 970 MHz/Vista Home Premium/Linksys wired router/Athlon 6000+/.74 dish]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20381746 Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:56:00 EDT