phantasm11b
Premium
join:2007-11-02
Cocoa, FL | Benjamin Franklin said it best...
"Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither."
Too bad no one listens anymore. |
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Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| said by phantasm11b  :"Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither." Too bad no one listens anymore. And those who misquote should understand the spirit in which said quote was spoken.
You're not trading anything, or losing any sort of liberty. The FBI doesn't care that you like girl on girl action from your favorite torrent site ... they do care that you bought 1,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate and have been visiting sites on the internet all year on how to make bombs.
Do you really think the FBI has the manpower to do ANYTHING with this information unless they have reason to look for it? You give them too much credit. |
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phantasm11b
Premium
join:2007-11-02
Cocoa, FL
edit:
April 24th, @11:37AM
| said by Matt :said by phantasm11b :"Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither." Too bad no one listens anymore. And those who misquote should understand the spirit in which said quote was spoken. You're not trading anything, or losing any sort of liberty. The FBI doesn't care that you like girl on girl action from your favorite torrent site ... they do care that you bought 1,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate and have been visiting sites on the internet all year on how to make bombs. Do you really think the FBI has the manpower to do ANYTHING with this information unless they have reason to look for it? You give them too much credit. No I don't think they have the manpower for such a task. But either way, it's a violation of our privacy. If you decide to look at guy on farm animal action when your wife is sleeping, that should be your business and your business alone.
This shouldn't even be a viable consideration. |
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :Do you really think the FBI has the manpower to do ANYTHING with this information unless they have reason to look for it? You give them too much credit. Manpower is becoming irrelevant in the computer age, where software looks for what they want, not people. |
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Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| reply to phantasm11b
said by phantasm11b :said by Matt :said by phantasm11b :"Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither." Too bad no one listens anymore. And those who misquote should understand the spirit in which said quote was spoken. You're not trading anything, or losing any sort of liberty. The FBI doesn't care that you like girl on girl action from your favorite torrent site ... they do care that you bought 1,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate and have been visiting sites on the internet all year on how to make bombs. Do you really think the FBI has the manpower to do ANYTHING with this information unless they have reason to look for it? You give them too much credit. No I don't think they have the manpower for such a task. But either way, it's a violation of our privacy. If you decide to look at guy on farm animal action when your wife is sleeping, that should be your business and your business alone. This shouldn't even be a viable consideration. Actually, that is the business of the law because it is illegal but I see the point you're reaching for.
I would counter with my belief the only people who care about what they've done on the internet sitting on a hard drive somewhere are the people who have something to hide ... either out of shame or true illegal intent.
If the FBI really cared about what you were doing, they'd just come kick your door in and confiscate your computer. |
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Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| reply to viperlmw
said by viperlmw :said by Matt :Do you really think the FBI has the manpower to do ANYTHING with this information unless they have reason to look for it? You give them too much credit. Manpower is becoming irrelevant in the computer age, where software looks for what they want, not people. Right, but then who has to check the information to verify it's legit? That's what I was referring to. |
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clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| reply to Matt
What happens when they *do* care that I like girl on girl action? What happens when they *do* care that I bought 10,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate but didn't catch or conveniently forgot about the farmer's coop sites I visit?
That's the issue. It's not that I'm adverse to catching the Timothy McVeighs of the world, I'm adverse to a police state. And we can't have a police state if we don't give them the power.
Whether or not they have the people now is moot; government doesn't shrink in size, it only gets bigger. They'll add staff. |
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25 | reply to Matt
Have you been following these guys? No verification necessary. Guilty until proven innocent. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
·EarthLink
| reply to phantasm11b
said by phantasm11b :"Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither." Too bad no one listens anymore. You've misquoted Franklin. The factual quote is "essential liberty" for "temporary safety."
Those qualifications are important. It means there are non-essential liberties, or that essential liberties could be legitimately traded for safety that is more than temporary.
The Founders exhibited exactly this behavior when they exchanged the Articles of Confederation for the 1787 Constitution after just 10 years. The Articles of Confederation were a relative utopia of "liberties" compared to the massive government they exchanged it for. They did it because they preferred the safety of a federal government over the haphazard liberty of a loose confederation.
Mark |
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MrMoody
Liberal Capitalist
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·magicjack.com
·Embarq
| said by amigo_boy :You've misquoted Franklin. The factual quote is "essential liberty" for "temporary safety." Those qualifications are important. It means there are non-essential liberties, or that essential liberties could be legitimately traded for safety that is more than temporary. I don't agree with that interpretation. I think he was merely minimizing the safety gained and maximizing the liberty lost when people are willing to trade one for the other.
--
The public is a poor business manager. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
·EarthLink
edit:
April 24th, @07:50PM
| said by MrMoody :said by amigo_boy :You've misquoted Franklin. The factual quote is "essential liberty" for "temporary safety." Those qualifications are important. It means there are non-essential liberties, or that essential liberties could be legitimately traded for safety that is more than temporary. I don't agree with that interpretation. I think he was merely minimizing the safety gained and maximizing the liberty lost when people are willing to trade one for the other. That wouldn't make a lot of sense. It would be like "better bestest." Qualifying an absolute to make it more absolute.
It also doesn't explain why those who believe these are absolutes *always* use the fake quote without qualifiers.
Mark |
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