Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to jgkolt
Re: They have been running out of modems!
said by jgkolt  :whats the upstream 5Mbps. |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
edit:
April 23rd, @10:07AM
| ha what a joke. I know 5mbps up is higher than what i have now but proportionally thats a joke. I wonder if the speeds will fluctuate as bad as my time warner did. 15mbps line what would commonly go below 2mbps. |
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swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Weare, NH
clubs: | Agreed. I would take 5/5 for same price I pay now, maybe a little more. |
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tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
| said by swhitney2003 :Agreed. I would take 5/5 for same price I pay now, maybe a little more. This is not an attack on swhitney2003 ,Just an observation on a common group of comments posted here)
Why is it that people think they should get the choice of higher speeds and can set the price at or below (in Mbps) what they now pay?
Frequently posted in between upgrade cycles:
"I would pay/do anything for more speed/more upload/etc."
frequently posted when a new tier is offered:
" It costs too much" "it's not enough upload" "They should give me twice as much, for half the price" {ok, the last one is paraphrased) Strangely (or not)these comments frequently come for the same people
If you understand how cable technology works(actually everything but dedicated line service faces this limitation), you know it will always offer an unbalanced DN/UP ratio, and the price will be set by the relative cost to provide the service vs market demand.
They current tier pricing is what it is because {1 it is above the cost of providing the service (we call that return on investment/profit) and {2 the majority of potential customers (or at least enough to provide {1 at the current scale) are willing to pay that much (even if they whine about it)
a smaller percentage of customers will pay a premium price, for a premium service.
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | we know the upload/download speed will not be the same for cable BUT the ratio doesn't need to be as bad between the two.
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Learning how to invest. Sign up to get 3 free trades for you and me each. Personal Message me. Thanks |
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Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| reply to tshirt
tshirt,
The fact of the matter is, most companies do not want to provide more upload for a couple of reasons:
1) Technical limitations: Time Warner Business Class would not provide you more than 5Mbps upstream, on a pristine line, on their current DOCSIS 1.1 technology. Even if the technology allowed for it, they moved you to fiber.
2) Business Class defections: Companies don't want to provide you with higher upstream speeds. They'd rather have you upgrade to the pricier, usually with a contract, business class tier. FiOS seems to be the exception here.
There is an obvious shift in the way people are using their internet connections at home that no one but FiOS seems to get. These trends start with the geeks who frequent sites like this, then filter down. Just like in any other industry. We realize we're at the limit of what additional downstream can do. Most people here are extremely happy with 10Mbps-15Mbps of downstream, but they want to see more upstream to do things like Slingbox their movies and music, share video and lots of pictures with their family; and yes, a percentage want to be warez kiddies and pirate movies.
I have a 15/2 connection and it has afforded me the opportunity to work form home. 2Mbps is BARELY adequate when I have to reload a server and remotely mount an ISO CD image, but it works. A 10/10 connection would be absolutely wonderful and 100/100 would make me wet my pants.
There is a paradigm shift happening and DOCSIS 3.0 isn't going to be the long term solution the Cable Companies hope, which is why they aren't jumping all over it and are taking a "wait and see" approach. |
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tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
| said by Matt :tshirt, The fact of the matter is, most companies do not want to provide more upload for a couple of reasons: 1) Technical limitations: ... they moved you to fiber. Exactly, dedicated line (fiber is one type)is more appropriate for balanced service, and at least until very recently (FIOS is notable here)been price accordingly.
Shared line like cable HSI is unbalanced, and they could offer you 5/5 or 10/10, but then need to be able to PROFITABLE sell the other 95% of the downstream to pay for the plant.
said by Matt :2) Business Class defections: ........I have a 15/2 connection and it has afforded me the opportunity to work form home. 2Mbps is BARELY adequate when I have to reload a server and remotely mount an ISO CD image, but it works. . correct, you just described yourself as someone who formerly (and maybe still should) would have had a business class connection, but instead chose the cheaper, highend residental service apparently willing to live with the limitations.
said by Matt : A 10/10 connection would be absolutely wonderful and 100/100 would make me wet my pants.. They don't want to be responsible for workplace 'accidents' 
said by Matt :There is a paradigm shift happening and DOCSIS 3.0 isn't going to be the long term solution the Cable Companies hope, which is why they aren't jumping all over it and are taking a "wait and see" approach. It is a major investment/commitment, those waiting by the sidelines want to see if the business model/pricing ComCast has set, sells, pays the costs.
The fear is
{1 some apps may kill there profit/repayment of the capital costs (as VoIP is doing to phone companies)
[2 some other technology (wireless,powerline, FTTx) can build out faster, and undercut/match the price, which will dilute their return schedule.
The risk is waiting too long and creating the window for the other technology to develop. |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
edit:
April 23rd, @12:26PM
| reply to tshirt
said by tshirt :said by swhitney2003 :Agreed. I would take 5/5 for same price I pay now, maybe a little more. They current tier pricing is what it is because {1 it is above the cost of providing the service (we call that return on investment/profit) If that's the case then Verizon must but losing money big time. 
I call greed on this one.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
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espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
·Embarq
| said by hopeflicker :said by tshirt :They current tier pricing is what it is because {1 it is above the cost of providing the service (we call that return on investment/profit) If that's the case then Verizon must but losing money big time. I call greed on this one. Verizon is losing money on FiOS right now. Just a couple months ago were showing only a 16% adoption rate on the service, which isn't nearly good enough to justify the rollout expense.
The driver behind footing the expense was being able to get into the video services market, not providing higher upload speeds. HSI alone wouldn't deliver any kind of reasonable ROI for Verizon. |
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tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
| reply to hopeflicker
Verizon sells a number of different Internet services, but I'm assuming you're comparing current FIOS prices to this comcast offering.
without looking at their books, and weighting the longterm costs and benefits of each of these different technologies but both aiming to capture a share of the lucrative triple play+ market it's not possible to access their cost/profit ratio
Judging how investor have treated Verizon stock, I'd say there is a feeling that their current service prices are far too low, however they are still trying for higher market share/penetration rates.
No one can really say what the longterm charges will be.
Corporations don't have GREED, they balance demand vs supply to achive the highest possible return for their investors. |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Cox HSI
| reply to jgkolt
It's a limitation of the cable network, really. That's why they're so pissy about people running BitTorrent in the first place.
It'd be nice if the pricing for upload and download were independent. Say, charge $15 for every 1Mbit of upload, and $3 for every 2Mbit of download. That way grandma could get 2/1 for $18, I could get 10/5 for $90, and Danny Downloader could get 50/5 for $150.
But there's many more grandmas than downloaders, and Comcast makes their best margins on them. In a more competitive market, I think we'd see cheaper average services, but top end wouldn't be much cheaper. |
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MrMoody
Liberal Capitalist
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | I'd buy it like that, but you'll never see it for the same reasons you'll never see a la carte TV: they don't want you to be able to avoid paying for what you don't use.
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The public is a poor business manager. |
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mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com
| reply to espaeth
If they're anything like me, then those who could "adopt" Verizon's FiOS TV (or triple play) don't do so solely because they just KNOW Verizon's going to screw-up their monthly bill once they move off of having just FiOS (or any single service). Once Verizon shows me they have the billing for their bundles straightened out, then I'll jump all over their TV product (though I doubt I'll ever use their phone service again, unless it's effectively free, as in, 3 for the price of 2). |
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espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to MrMoody
said by MrMoody :I'd buy it like that, but you'll never see it for the same reasons you'll never see a la carte TV: they don't want you to be able to avoid paying for what you don't use. The reason you won't see individual channel subscription services has a lot more to do with the content providers. More channels = more airtime to sell to advertisers.
It's the content providers who are coming up with ridiculous contracts, like making MSOs and sat operators pay 200% more for Nickelodeon if they don't agree to carry Nick GAS (Games and Sports) as well. |
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moko
join:2002-12-22
Fayetteville, GA | reply to tshirt
if corporations are run by humans....than theere will always be greed in it....thats when they "don't" balance supply and demand |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Corporations are, essentially, amoral. Neither greed, nor altruism are a part of their essence. A corporation is just an organized mob. Do some research on "mob psychology". People in groups (mobs, or corporations) are capable of doing things that they would not do individually.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to axus
said by axus :It's a limitation of the cable network, really. That's why they're so pissy about people running BitTorrent in the first place. Its not all about BT, its about protecting lucrative biz packages.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| said by dvd536 :said by axus :It's a limitation of the cable network, really. That's why they're so pissy about people running BitTorrent in the first place. Its not all about BT, its about protecting their over priced and lucrative biz packages. i fix4U 
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. |
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justaguy
@lmco.com | reply to tshirt
Why is it that people think they should get the choice of higher speeds and can set the price at or below (in Mbps) what they now pay?
In most cases, it is because they feel that they are being overcharged to begin with. |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| said by justaguy :
Why is it that people think they should get the choice of higher speeds and can set the price at or below (in Mbps) what they now pay?
In most cases, it is because they feel that they are being overcharged to begin with.
Or, they're aware of other companies giving away better deals. I'm happy with my 10/1 connection from Time Warner, but I have to admit it does irk me that select areas of Los Angeles get 15/2 for the same price I'm paying. |
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