OttawaGal
@anonymouse.org
| reply to R0CKY
Re: Nexxia throttling?
If bell is saying that they are throttling certain area's down to below 30kB/s because they can't cope with the traffic that is sold to you and which is resold to the user. Then a complaint for a cost reduction needs to be put in with Bell since they are admitting they can't provide the service that teksavvy is paying them for, and in turn that cost reduction should also be passed on to the users who are paying for below 30kB/s internet. Don't know if thats possible, or if i made sense, or how they work.
But what I'm saying is, why should Harry in Montreal pay 40$ for 5-meg internet and Dick in Toronto pay 40$ for the same service at dial up speed? Why should Teksavvy have to pay full rate as well when bell admitted they can't supply you?
Will this throttle soon spread out to other area's or is there only a predefined area at the moment? What area's?
Is it perm? Estimated length of time?
Are all the other wholesellers affected as well or only Teksavvy?
Should users believe bells side of it, or should they believe this is another strong-arm tactic by bell similar to when they tried to strong-arm you into removing the login access?
Many questions come to mind...
Good luck with your meeting next week! |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| The "leak" mill is definitely busy. As I understand it in one rumour, Bell is throttling 3rd parties in areas where they have the equipment to do so, and intend to extend that to all areas.
I don't see what legal right they have to do this and I hope somebody will raise this to the Department of Industry Anti-Competition bureau. |
|
for sure
@videotron.ca
| said by sbrook  :The "leak" mill is definitely busy. As I understand it in one rumour, Bell is throttling 3rd parties in areas where they have the equipment to do so, and intend to extend that to all areas. I don't see what legal right they have to do this and I hope somebody will raise this to the Department of Industry Anti-Competition bureau. FOR SURE!
If this is true, I see price fixing, competition fixing, collusion, cartels, raketeering and so forth.
I would be banging on the industry ministers and the CRTC's door fast. |
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BozoTheCl0wn
join:2005-04-01
H0H0H0
2 edits | reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal This would imply the network can see at who the primary account belongs to and would throttle the line no matter what login was used (be it Sympatico or another provider) -- basically, it throttles according to which physical line is being used, not what login is being used. I just can't see that as making sense as traffic shaping would be layer 5 or 6, not layer 1.
»arstechnica.com/articles/culture···lity.ars |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to ISP_Worker
said by ISP_Worker :
I work for an ISP, and I deal with Sympatico/Bell everyday, dealing with tickets and troubles...
Just got off the phone, started with a Nexxia rep telling me that bandwidth is being shapped/slowed down for Sympatico AND DSL Resellers in regards to P2P traffic... I asked for confirmation, she placed me on hold, and came back saying that yes, this is true. Then I asked for a manager... she said she couldn't transfer me, but gave me a name and number to call, talked to that person, and she wouldn't come right out to say yes this is all true, but is not denying it, and tried to explain the impact P2P traffic has on all customers, whether they are on resellers or not...
I can't confirm that any of this is true... 1 person said it is, the 2nd higher up didn't denie it and tried hard to explain why something like this would be done if it were...
I looked around a few forums here to see if anything close to this had been reported... but I see nothing...
I have also heard this is true, from back channel conversation.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to ISP_Worker
Here is what Rocky of TSI is saying in the thread referenced by him above.
quote:
After some discussions with Bell, while doing upgrades to zones that are under capacity, it looks like they've now started to implement at type of load balance system of sorts... I don't think it's a throttle, but it does seem they're spreading the pain from the looks of it right now.
We're hoping to get more details after the holiday weekend to see what the official plans are from them.
As a side note, we have no plans to throttle anything, so if anyone is experiencing anything remotely related to this, it would be before it hits our side... This looks like a load to upgrade planning issue right now with the Bell side of things....
We would have loved to have given a faster response on this one, but it's still not clear exactly what's going on or where to ask questions as of yet.
More to come shortly on this matter.
Rocky
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
Acanac Inc
Premium
join:2007-03-05
Mississauga, ON
1 edit | Although we have not yet had any complaints on our end about throttling, Acanac has noticed profiles being lowered when they could support higher speeds. This is happening more and more. This in it's self is a type of throttling.
Best Regards,
Paul
www.acanac.ca |
|
itsa shame
@videotron.ca
| said by Acanac Inc :Acanac has noticed profiles being lowered when they could support higher speeds. Something needs to be done and this is probably one of the times where all you wholesellers need to pool your resources and fight back before you really get stepped on more. |
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OttawaGal
@anonymouse.org
| reply to sbrook
Now, with the news that Rogers is applying the same 60-gig throttled limits as Sympatico, and with dissemination of a leaked Sympatico document announcing further changes to its bandwidth policies, she’s wondering if there’s more to the situation than meets the eye, with the phrase ‘price fixing’ front and center.
Full rumor story at:
»www.p2pnet.net/story/15361
Let the rumours fly.
This should also probably be front page news on dslr.
Should follow this up with as many wholesalers as possible to get their side of whats happening. hmmmmm
Anyone game for an interview? |
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jpabboud
join:2005-12-12
Montreal, QC | reply to ISP_Worker
I think ElectronicBox's cable service here in Quebec looks more and more tempting... I hope Videotron is not planning on following Nexxia in their foot steps. |
|
xmz
join:2005-06-09
Canada
·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | reply to ISP_Worker
For what it's worth, I'm with Distributel and I am noticing a steady 30kb/s limit on any torrent that I try. As far as I know Distributel is a Bell reseller, not unlike TekSavvy. This is pretty recent as I remember that as soon as last week I was getting full speeds. I am located in KW.
Just to add on: If I attempt to grab something via FTP while I have a torrent client open, speeds are at a dismal 30kb/s as well. This is bullshit.  |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| There is an online petition for those interested in the Sympatico forum objecting to Bell throttling.
That said, online petitions aren't very effective and this probably won't be either ... but hey give it a shot.
The best way to make complaints about this and other issues is to write to
Your MPP / MLA
The Ontario Ministry of Government Services (Consumer Protection) if you're in Ontario or the equivalent in other provinces
Your MP
The Federal Industry Minister
The CCTS (Commissioner for Complaints for Telecom Services
Express you concern about the anti-competitive nature of throttling 3rd party ISPs and the lack of protection for the consumer in Bell's dealings with its customers. |
|
spam industryCA
@videotron.ca
| What would probably, maybe, perhaps, be a good thing to include is canned letters (something the community can put together through ideas and compose) for the:
said by sbrook :Your MPP / MLA The Ontario Ministry of Government Services (Consumer Protection) if you're in Ontario or the equivalent in other provinces Your MP The Federal Industry Minister {competition bureau} The CCTS (Commissioner for Complaints for Telecom Services {CRTC to make them aware the people are fed up of them doing nothing at all} *If* enough "spam" goes out to be a nuisance, then maybe someone will raise an eyebrow.
I can't see bell caring what their users (especially non-users) have to say about a throttle that Bell has invested in.
They should mail/Email a Director in bell threaten to cancel any bell service they have and actually follow through with it. I can't see something as passive as a forum petition doing anything to raise their eyebrows personally. |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| When you've got multimillion customers, a few who actually take the step of complaining and quitting isn't even a blip in the ocean. This is why it's well beyond that. This really requires either true competition (of which there is none) or regulation. |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| What I transmit between myself and my ISP is none of Bell's business.
Bell provides bulk transport of PPPoE packets. It has no business looking at the contents of those packets.
Bell is in the business of providing bandwidth. If it can't provide sufficient bandwith to support all the lines ISPs pay for, there is something definitely wrong.
What is really happening here is that Bell is scrambling to raise its DSL speeds to not look so pathetic against the cable companies. The only way its infrastructure can support this is by lowering throughput by the same amount that it increases the DSL sync rates.
It is ironic that Bell is using a terrible kludge called DSL (PPPoE over ATM over old copper) and that in the end, the weakest link in the chain isn't that ugly DSL kludge but Bell's own network which can't cope with all the new customers.
Essentially, Bell wants to be able market higher speeds without actually providing higher speeds except when you do HTTP. |
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DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by jfmezei :Bell is in the business of providing bandwidth. If it can't provide sufficient bandwith to support all the lines ISPs pay for, there is something definitely wrong. If the warranty section of the Service Agreement is any indication of what they warrant to resellers, then that's not true. Nothing, including bandwidth, is warranted or guaranteed.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| But the questions, DKS, are a) whether they have the RIGHT to interfere with that traffic, and b) whether the interference with that traffic is being anticompetitive in the light of loss of customers to competitors having throttled and capped their own and this time not losing them to Rogers ... since Rogers has implemented their own throttling and caps.
It sure reeks like limburger cheese of the latter. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by sbrook :But the questions, DKS, are a) whether they have the RIGHT to interfere with that traffic, and b) whether the interference with that traffic is being anticompetitive in the light of loss of customers to competitors having throttled and capped their own and this time not losing them to Rogers ... since Rogers has implemented their own throttling and caps. It sure reeks like limburger cheese of the latter. For Sympatico clients, yes they do. It's laid out in the service agreement. And yes, they have the right to throttle, pass to a 3rd party and all kinds of things.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| I haven't seen a 3rd party ISPs service agreement. But I really do question whether they claimed the right to willfully interfere with traffic.
But that aside, the second question is far more likely to hang Bell in terms of the regulators (the fist might hang them in a civil court action) and begs questions of Bell's motives and whether this is an anticompetitive move. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's PROBABLY a duck. That's my reaction given the timing of this action on Bell's part to throttle 3rd party ISPs using their facilities. |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| reply to DKS
Throtling is done at the TCP level.
Sympatico can throttle all it wants. It provides TCP connectivity and can affect how it carries TCP traffic all it wants.
Bell provices packet forwarding at the PPPoE level between residences and ISPs. It does not provide TCP connectivity.
As such, it has no business dealing with packets that transit between ISPs and their customers. It is private data and Bell can't inspect their contents. |
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