Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·MegaPath
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
March 19th, @12:47PM
| reply to ptrowski
Re: Nothing new
said by ptrowski  :True, they are nothing new but you usually get to review them AHEAD of time instead of after you drop the money and subscribe. They are also usually a wee bit shoter than a few thousand pages. Where are you getting that the agreement is a few thousand pages?
A 2,000 word service agreement isn't unusual in the slightest and has to be there, like arbitration, to combat the litany of bloodsucking ambulance chasers.
Blame the bloodsucking lawyers for these hoops, not Verizon. Hell, I have to wait 30 seconds to get to my Acura's navi screen because of blood sucking lawyers who would sue Acura if some dumbass drove into a lake.
Meanwhile she was told ahead of time that to get the deal she would have to go online and read the agreement. |
|
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| This isn't anything new, however, you typically have
A) Blood/money thirsty lawyers "for the consumer" 
B) Greedy corporations that want to have their cake and eat it too.
I see this more in the health insurance industry than telco.
Eg. Kaiser Permanente (probably others as well) have arbitration clauses.
--
Canada = Hollywood North |
|
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to Dogfather
Lets get some facts straight.
First and foremost it is the courts that should decide if a case has merit or not. If it doesn't, then it should be tossed. EVERY lawsuit should be reviewed by a panel and have the "Duh!" factor applied to it before even considering any evidence to allow it to proceed.
Second, if a company wants to do it then there are 2 things for sure. First, it hurts the consumer more than them. Second, it adds to their bottom line.
Third, companies like Verizon have a full time staff of lawyers that are paid regardless of whether or not they are sued.
Fourth, companies like Verizon use arbitration because it restricts the consumer's right to bring a true hearing against them which would be public record and put the consumer on a somewhat even playing field.
Lastly, companies like Verizon use arbitration because they know without question they will win virtually every case. |
|
ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | reply to Dogfather
Sorry, I meant words, my bad.
2000 words I think is a bit long as is 7000.
You have to wait 30 seconds? Mine in my Nissan comes up in 10 seconds.  |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·MegaPath
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
March 19th, @01:33PM
| reply to Skippy25
Let's get some facts straight, juries, not courts decide awards and that is why corporations have to have arbitration.
Arbitration doesn't mean immunity or automatic victory for corporations. It just means that the chances of avoiding a multi million dollar payout for something stupid like losing a notebook is far less likely.
To some here at DSLR, anything short of $50 million for a fried laptop is the corporation screwing over the customer.
This »www.informationweek.com/news/sho···06504123 is why Verizon has to have arbitration clauses. |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | reply to ptrowski
Sure seems like 30 seconds but if I counted it off it's probably 15 or 20. Damn lawyers. They're the scourge of the Earth. |
|
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| reply to Dogfather
How about that study that showed that Comcast wins 97% of their arbitration cases? Remember, the arbitator is NOT neutral, they're hired by the company. If a high enough percentage of cases don't go their way, they can be replaced. That's not what arbitration is supposed to be. |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·MegaPath
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| Just because Comcast won doesn't mean they weren't justified in winning 97% of the time and it depends on what is defined as winning. I would like to see that study if you have a link to it.
And arbitration is a far better solution than having a subscriber funded bottomless trough for the bloodsucking lawyers.
I'm no fan of corporations, I just hate the blood sucking vampire lawyers who are ruining this country. |
|
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| The study is here »www.citizen.org/documents/Final_wcover.pdf and it was 94%, not 97 - my mistake.
I have no problem with mandatory arbitration - if the company handling the arbitration doesn't have a relationship with either party. |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | I wonder who funds that think tank. |
|
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Why don't you spend some time wondering who funds the arbitrators? And how can an arbitrator that's paid BY a company be neutral when handling that company's disputes? |
|
KraziJoe
join:2006-09-08
Alexandria, VA
·Comcast
| reply to Dogfather
Verizon will fix my notebook? |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·MegaPath
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
March 19th, @02:18PM
| reply to vpoko
said by vpoko :Why don't you spend some time wondering who funds the arbitrators? And how can an arbitrator that's paid BY a company be neutral when handling that company's disputes? Cause I know who funds them (arbitrators) and its' easy to be neutral.
In my business I pay my worker's comp auditor, ISO auditor, and a few others and they tell me to fix stuff and I don't fire them for it.
Meanwhile I always follow the money no matter who is telling their story. |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·MegaPath
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
March 19th, @02:15PM
| reply to KraziJoe
said by KraziJoe :Verizon will fix my notebook? If they're responsible for destroying it. »www.macwork.com/2006/11/28/pics-···inferno/ |
|
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :Meanwhile I always follow the money no matter who is telling their story. No, you're obviously not following the money going to arbitrators. Why can an arbitrator remain neutral, even though it's in their interest to rule towards the company that hires them, but a think tank must have an agenda influenced by the source of their funding.
Sounds like you have a double standard when it comes to following the money. |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
·MegaPath
·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·Verizon west (ex G..
·ViaTalk
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| As I stated, just because the company pays them doesn't automatically mean they aren't neutral. In the course of my business pay auditors (the closest think to arbitrators I use) who are neutral. No problem.
No double standard. I always follow the money. Arbitration is far better that subscribers giving millions to greedy bloodsucking lawyers because the ISP blows up a notebook. |
|
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
·Comcast
| said by Dogfather :As I stated, just because the company pays them doesn't automatically mean they aren't neutral. In the course of my business pay auditors (the closest think to arbitrators I use) who are neutral. No problem. Sure it's a problem, remember Arthur Anderson? That's why we have the Sarbanes-Oxley Act now, to try to prevent auditors from getting in bed with the companies they're hired to audit. We need the same thing for arbitration.
Would you be opposed to the consumer choosing the arbitrator, with the loser paying the costs? |
|
Dogfather
Altitude is your friend
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | I would love nothing more than a loser pays system. It will fix everything from heathcare to patent trolling. |
|
Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :said by ptrowski :True, they are nothing new but you usually get to review them AHEAD of time instead of after you drop the money and subscribe. They are also usually a wee bit shoter than a few thousand pages. Where are you getting that the agreement is a few thousand pages? A 2,000 word service agreement isn't unusual in the slightest and has to be there, like arbitration, to combat the litany of bloodsucking ambulance chasers. Blame the bloodsucking lawyers for these hoops, not Verizon. Hell, I have to wait 30 seconds to get to my Acura's navi screen because of blood sucking lawyers who would sue Acura if some dumbass drove into a lake. Meanwhile she was told ahead of time that to get the deal she would have to go online and read the agreement. "This was the first time she was being presented with the full contract for her new FiOS setup, and the service had already been installed and activated." |
|
