espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
 ·Embarq
| I think it's interesting...
ISP customers install an application on their computer that works without their intervention, takes direction from a central controller, and generates an organized and massive amount of traffic for a pre-defined purpose.
Zombies and botnets, or Vuze and P2P.
Same description either way, with same the same congestion as the result. |
|
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | An independent third-party p2p video delivery system is the same thing as a zombie botnet? |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | If you look at nothing but the 10,000ft view of the TCP flows and traffic profile, yes, P2P and Botnets look identical. |
|
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to espaeth
Vuze works without direct intervention, but you still have to goto their website and get the app.
Zombie/Botnet are installed without user knowledge for the purpose of causing harm.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
|
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to espaeth
Slight difference in that botnets are filled with unwilling participants who were conned into participating, and the collective effort is generally geared toward illegal activity. |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| .. and that's different from kids who install BitTorrent because their friends tell them they can get free MP3s how?
Granted, it doesn't apply to the Vuze discussion directly. If Vuze is so concerned about the performance of people downloading their content, they should stand up more seed servers on their dime. |
|
supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| reply to Karl Bode
Comcast CEO Brian Roberts explaining Comcast's traffic-shaping, "We are committed to providing all customers with an always on connection. People that require heavy bandwidth due to file-sharing and other activities, mostly illegal from our research, do have such applications shaped by our system to provide a positive experience for all customers. If such customers need heavy bandwidth, they can always get a Comcast business account. We do not traffic shape legitimate uses of our system such as VOIP providers, YouTube, for example, and other applications that require bandwidth."
Comcast tech explains it, "If you download illegal stuff, we throttle your connection to those apps. Simple, isn't it? We don't block porn either. I should know since I watch a ton of it everyday."
ROFLMAO!
But, I think Comcast traffic shaping illegal traffic is okay since it makes for a good experience for all. Bandwidth hogs, get a biz acct. Too cheap? Tough!
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
|
kcblack
Premium
join:2000-09-11
Chicago, IL | reply to espaeth
So I wonder what you think of my directv dvr that uses my broadband connection to download VOD...should Comcast be able to throttle them also?
Kevin |
|
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | quote:
So I wonder what you think of my directv dvr that uses my broadband connection to download VOD
Virus! |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
1 edit | reply to kcblack
said by kcblack  :So I wonder what you think of my directv dvr that uses my broadband connection to download VOD...should Comcast be able to throttle them also? That's a different scenario as it's a finite transfer. Once you've downloaded that content you don't download it anymore. Vuze will upload content to other Vuze members indefinitely as long as you have the application open.
Fixed duration transfers are not the problem. P2P apps that will consume whatever pipe you have 24x7 are a different story. |
|
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| reply to supergirl
So Linux is an illegal app? It must be, since it is available via BT. And it's seeded by the Linux vendors themselves! IT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!!
I have a suggestion for Comcast. If they can't support their customers, then they should stop overselling their network. They like to say that BT content is somehow evil. Yes, much of it is illegal, but not all of it is. What's happened is that bandwidth demand is outstripping supply, so, instead of growing their network, Comcast is throttling.
But hey, I don't use that much bandwidth. I don't run BT very much at all. So, Comcast, where is my reward for not tying up your network? If you're going to punish those you would describe as bandwidth hogs, then where's my reward for not using a lot of bandwidth? |
|
IPingUPing
N4BFR
Premium
join:2002-08-30
Smyrna, GA
clubs:
| reply to espaeth
said by espaeth : If Vuze is so concerned about the performance of people downloading their content, they should stand up more seed servers on their dime. Or, even better, Vuze buy actual servers and bandwidth and become a real CDN instead of being leech-ware. |
|
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to supergirl
said by supergirl :.... But, I think Comcast traffic shaping illegal traffic is okay ... Q: how do they know it's illegal?
A: they don't
Someone did a P2P test using the bible (a public domain work), it was blocked by comcast. Comcast is not blocking illegal traffic, they are blocking P2P traffic |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Congestion is congestion, whether the traffic is legal or not. Individual TCP sessions all attempt to get the best performance they can, so the bigger question is why should a P2P app which opens up 30 TCP sessions get 30 times the shot at upload throughput that I get with my single TCP session to upload photos to my website?
Restricting the number of upstream sessions that a P2P app can establish increases the "fairness" of non-P2P sessions as a result. |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to ISurfTooMuch
said by ISurfTooMuch :So Linux is an illegal app? It must be, since it is available via BT. And it's seeded by the Linux vendors themselves! IT MUST BE STOPPED!!!!! Every major Linux distro has a wide array of HTTP/FTP/RSYNC mirrors that are used to distribute their content. P2P is but a single method used for distribution, and it's not the most used method.
said by ISurfTooMuch :I have a suggestion for Comcast. If they can't support their customers, then they should stop overselling their network. If they can support the speeds they advertise for all but one application, is reducing the level of service for everyone still the best option? |
|
Anonymister
@verizon.net | reply to supergirl
The problem with the business account is that the same invisible bandwidth cap limitations are in place. So why pay and arm and a leg for the same pathetic, troubled, and oversold network? Its a rip-ff. |
|
macaholic
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY
| reply to IPingUPing
spoken like Comcrap shill.... no matter how many servers Vuze uses the bottom line is Comcrap is throttling the traffic. A gazilion servers could be on one end of the pipe and the traffic is still being throttled...
--
"You don't subject minority rights to a referendum." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler of Canada |
|
espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| said by macaholic :spoken like Comcrap shill.... no matter how many servers Vuze uses the bottom line is Comcrap is throttling the traffic. A gazilion servers could be on one end of the pipe and the traffic is still being throttled... Traffic is only being throttled in the upload direction. Therefore if there were a gazillion source servers outside of Comcast's network, your client would just need to download and not upload, and there would be no throttling involved. |
|
MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
1 edit | reply to nasadude
said by nasadude :said by supergirl :.... But, I think Comcast traffic shaping illegal traffic is okay ... Q: how do they know it's illegal? A: they don't Someone did a P2P test using the bible (a public domain work), it was blocked by comcast. Comcast is not blocking illegal traffic, they are blocking P2P traffic Well within the terms of their TOS:
»www.comcast.net/terms/use.jsp
said by Comcast TOS :
Prohibited Uses and Activities
Prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, using the Service, Customer Equipment, or the Comcast Equipment to:
...
xiv. run programs, equipment, or servers from the Premises that provide network content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises LAN (Local Area Network), also commonly referred to as public services or servers. Examples of prohibited services and servers include, but are not limited to, e-mail, Web hosting, file sharing, and proxy services and servers;
So it seems that Comcast is just enforcing its TOS by limiting P2P uploading.... |
|
Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | reply to ISurfTooMuch
With so many people claiming to be downloading Linux distros, you would think they would have more than an asterisk for desktop market share LOL. |
|
