said by tenbase :

you think "hobby radio users" are the only folks with serious complaints about this technology?

They're the only ones I hear about, even though their advocacy group has approved BPL.

On a personal level, even if there were interference (which their advocacy group has apparently said their won't be, at least with one implementation), I'm just not as certain as hobbyists that their hobby is *that* important. If BPL presented even a marginal benefit to society (which it may not), I think it would be legitimate to do away with hobby radio.

I've heard all the arguments about how it serves a public good. But, even radio hobbyists know that it's a matter of degrees. 10-20 years ago the reasoning for morse code was that it was best suited in disasters. It used less power, intelligible under worse conditions, and it wasn't susceptible to equipment damage (like a microphone).

Well, 10-20 years later, and the ranks of radio hobbyists thinning, morse code was tossed overboard in the interest of gaining a larger membership (people to have "fun" as one member of this forum put it last time). That's understandable. But, it also shows that even radio hobbyists aren't impervious to sacrificing their hobby (or its stated goals) in the name of popularity.

said by tenbase :

I'm glad I live in a country where individuals and minorities have rights, and repugnant socialist concepts such as this rarely gain traction.

said by tenbase :

You do realize that there are many, many ways to communicate over the air besides morse code and voice, right? I can think of more than a dozen narrow and robust digital modes right off the top of my head.

said by amigo_boy :

That's an odd position. Public airwaves are, well, public. Like parks, the public giveth, and the public taketh away depending on competing interests.

said by tenbase :

Here's some irony for ya - you are advocating eliminating some of the last publicly available spectrum - that means anyone who passes a simple test can use it - in order to have it rendered useless by RF pollution. Exactly what "public good" is being served by this, when the technology being touted has already existed for decades in the form of low-frequency, non-interfering PLC?

Amateur Radio is not a US-only hobby, it is recognized and protected by international treaty, and virtually every country in the world issues licenses for the tiny slivers of spectrum allocated to the service. The HF spectrum is not confined to borders either, signals in this band can easily propagate worldwide, unlike with any other part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Thus, it is well worth defending from ill-conceived, half-baked techno-junk such as HF BPL/PLC.

Finally, the rules regarding morse code as a license requirement were in place due to international treaty, and had nothing to do with "hobbyists". Once the treaty requirement went away, the FCC later dropped the licensing requirement. All NPRM comments both for and against dropping the requirement are public record and available on the FCC website for all to see.

And yes, there are plenty of idiots on the air, just like there are plenty of idiots on the interweb. Neither bother me much. As in the real world, you just have to take the bad with the good and avoid the fools when you can.

said by tenbase :

you are advocating eliminating some of the last publicly available spectrum ... in order to have it rendered useless by RF pollution.

said by tenbase :

recognized and protected by international treaty,

said by tenbase :

Finally, the rules regarding morse code as a license requirement were in place due to international treaty, and had nothing to do with "hobbyists".

said by tenbase :

And yes, there are plenty of idiots on the air, just like there are plenty of idiots on the interweb. Neither bother me much. As in the real world, you just have to take the bad with the good and avoid the fools when you can.

said by tenbase :

Further, the BPL you are referring to which has been tentatively "approved" by the ARRL (which only represents about 1/6th of licensed amateurs in the United States incidentally), does not use HV or MV power lines as a data path, it uses Canopy wireless, with only the LV lines leading into the home or business actually carrying a data signal.

said by PDXPLT :

That's not true. What you describe is the Motorola system. Not all systems that the ARRL think is OK used this. The system used by Current Communications most definitely uses the MV lines, without causing harmful interference.

The fact of the matter is that utilities have been using "carrier current" systems for a long time, and no one noticesd.

Than a few years ago some hacks tried to get into the business of using it for Broadband Access, the next Great Thing and a sure way to make themselves rich. They did a lousy job implementing it, and didn't know or care enough to mitigate interference issues. So now we have forums such as this, where no one make any distinctions and treats all BPL as equally bad.

said by amigo_boy :

Not advocating. Just suggesting that it should be on the table. It's not sacred. And, it's less popular than it was 20-30 years ago. Even hobbyists recognize this. It was a large part of the argument for doing away with the Morse code requirement.

The result is that bandwidth and intelligibility was sacrificed. If hobbyists can do it to themselves, I don't see why society can't. It may be undesirable for a number of reasons. But, hobbyists have already demonstrated perfection is situational.