Re: Here come the ham bashers.... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19315515 en Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:30:55 EDT Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:30:55 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19321792 wcmoore : An operator at one end of the conversation will likely be on the working power grid. If he has BPL signals on his electric lines and the signals are interfering he will not be able to hear the distant radio operator. Also another problem is radio signals in the shortwave bands can skip on the ionosphere for thousands of miles causing interference in multiple locations.

As a side note a recent NATO study was released which noted the potential for interference from BPL systems and the threat BPL would pose to military communications.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19321792 Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:58:40 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19321592 wolfox : Yes, with as little as 35mW of broadcast power and under the right atmospheric conditions - BPL will be the pop-hum and buzz heard around the world. The very basic nature of the frequencies current trial version of BPL use makes their signal literally bounce and skip through the atmosphere to be heard hundreds if not thousands of miles away. These devices being usually class C or maybe even B FCC devices *must* make right of way and may not interfere with licensed used of the frequency band. However, the FCC seems to be looking the other way while holding its hand out to have a thorough palm greasing. Money talks, little people walk...
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The RIAA killed my legal webcast. Sadly it will never be mourned...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19321592 Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:20:25 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317885 moonpuppy :
said by ieolus See Profile :

You need to get that chip on your shoulder removed; I'm making no arguments either way... I'm trying to learn about the "controversy". Of course, the more I read your drivel, the more it looks like BPL is the way to go.
Pot, this is kettle, you're black.

This topic has been discussed at length multiple times and your arguments are NOTHING new. Just more attacks by someone who does not bother to do any research.

Here is a thread you need to read:

»BPL Standard Advances]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317885 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:53:49 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317627 ieolus :
said by moonpuppy See Profile :

said by ieolus See Profile :

I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind.
Translation: I have no argument.
You need to get that chip on your shoulder removed; I'm making no arguments either way... I'm trying to learn about the "controversy". Of course, the more I read your drivel, the more it looks like BPL is the way to go.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317627 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:00:44 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317521 Transmaster : SB-200 go for about 150 to 200 dollars in good working order. They use a pair of 572B triodes for power. The SB-220 goes for about 300 to 400 dollars in working order it does the legal limit of 1500 watts using a pair CX500 triodes. They are so easy to repair if you can get a good deal on one of these amps which is not working I would would consider it. The only part if failed is a killer is the power transformer if it is gone the unit becomes a parts rig. You can find them on the swap lists and at ham feasts. These two amp in their day where the most popular HF amp on the market and thousands and thousands where sold. I am told the best place to find them is at any Texas Ham feast, Texas is a big place and they need big power on their HF setups :D ;) I have my SB-200 hooked up to one of my TS-530S it is a great combination. This outfit has the parts to update the Green Pigs.

»www.harbachelectronics.com/

I ran a G5RV dipole for years. I recently replaced mine with a conventional dipole with parts from The Wireman. »thewireman.com/index.shtml

I am fortunate to live in a area that will never see BPL. We have Hamradio operators in important positions in the local power company so any such proposal will be laughed out of the building.

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Have you eaten a pork chop for Allah]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317521 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:43:58 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317117 moonpuppy :
said by ieolus See Profile :

I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind.
Translation: I have no argument.

said by ieolus See Profile :

Of course they don't provide service to rural areas because there isn't any live BPL active (yet).
And there never will be because of the costs to deploy the technology. It doesn't have the distance of cable or fiber and has more issues than DSL.

said by ieolus See Profile :

They most certainly *would* be a viable third pipe if allowed to proceed. How can there be any dispute on that? Basically every home in the country has electric connectivity.
Do some research on how BPL is deployed before you bring up the "electricity in every home argument." It is NOT that simple.

said by ieolus See Profile :

About making money off "this internet craze".. no clue how to respond to that.
Cable companies make a lot of profit selling internet service. So do the telephone companies. Power companies are mostly regulated so their profit is fixed for electrical service. Their internet service would not be regulated.

said by ieolus See Profile :

As to interference, I hope that can be resolved without affecting the amateur HAM operators. If not, we shall see.
A North Carolina trial had the power company working with radio operators until it cost to much to mitigate the interference. The power company then said their was no interference and shut the HAM operators out. The trial was shut down after the power company couldn't make the system work.

There are certain BPL systems that do not create interference (like the Motorola system which was o.k.ed by the ARRL) but other systems currently out there have issues and those companies do not want to correct them because it would cost money and eat into their profits. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19317117 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:47:02 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316916 ieolus :
said by snorpus2 :

The frequencies used by most BPL systems are in the shortwave portion of the radio spectrum, and so can be propagated for hundreds or thousands of miles.

So while electric service (and BPL) could be "out" in a disaster area, communications with and within those areas could be affected by BPL signals coming from, literally, anywhere on Earth.

And I'm not sure, but it might be possible for the electric power to be out in a disaster area, but the BPL signals to still be functioning.
I didn't know that, interesting.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316916 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:16:21 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316911 ieolus : I am sorry, but I have to dismiss basically everything you just said in your reply... you come off as 100% biased w/o an open mind.

Of course they don't provide service to rural areas because there isn't any live BPL active (yet).

They most certainly *would* be a viable third pipe if allowed to proceed. How can there be any dispute on that? Basically every home in the country has electric connectivity.

About making money off "this internet craze".. no clue how to respond to that.

As to interference, I hope that can be resolved without affecting the amateur HAM operators. If not, we shall see.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316911 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:15:28 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316741 anon : The frequencies used by most BPL systems are in the shortwave portion of the radio spectrum, and so can be propagated for hundreds or thousands of miles.

So while electric service (and BPL) could be "out" in a disaster area, communications with and within those areas could be affected by BPL signals coming from, literally, anywhere on Earth.

And I'm not sure, but it might be possible for the electric power to be out in a disaster area, but the BPL signals to still be functioning.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316741 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:58:10 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316404 moonpuppy :
said by ieolus See Profile :

I'm sure it does come up every single time, because that is the first most logical question.
Not logical at all.

said by ieolus See Profile :

Well, like all politics, it seems you have to weigh to good that BPL would provide versus the good that HAM does provide.
The BPL mantra was they would provide service to rural areas. They don't. They would be viable third pipe. They aren't. They would allow power companies to make money off this internet craze. They aren't.

said by ieolus See Profile :

Personally I would rather see some form of BPL, as it is a universal last-mile route into each home in the country.
It is not. It never will be without major infrastructure changes and a lot of money. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316404 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:46:42 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316246 N3OGH : That sounds like a good idea.

Actually, I could probably feed my G5RV with that until I can scrape up the cash for my tower.

Where did you pick yours up at, and what are they going for these days?

I've always had an affinity for tube driven equipment. My first HF rig was a Kenwood 830 with 2 6146 B's in the back. Nothing like the warm glow of tubes on a chilly winter night....

I can't WAIT to put the tower up. My neighborhood used to be kinda rural. It wasn't uncommon to find cars up on blocks in peoples driveway, or a bulldozer in the side yard. Now it's full of rich yuppie types who are going to FREAK when I put that big azz HF beam and VHF/UHF array up. I only need about 35 feet to clear the top of my house and surrounding structures/trees. :D

Did I mention I'm about 350 feet above sea level :)
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316246 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:17:25 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316127 expert007 : Now there's some talk that ALWAYS captivates the ladies...:-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316127 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:54:26 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316069 Transmaster : Get yourself a "Green Pig" a Heathkit SB-200 or 220 they are cheap easy to repair and parts are easy to come by. I really like my SB-200's 600 or so watts. I can see it now some idiot is trying to play Helo 3 on a BPL connection and you hit him up with a Green Pig" and arrrrgghh!!!! :D :D :D :D :D ;)
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Eat a BLT for Iran
Click for full size
SB-200 Heathkit, The Green Pig
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316069 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:43:33 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316021 anon :
said by ieolus See Profile :

I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications?
With interference, the HAM operators may shutdown, sell equipment, and vanish. Why would anyone learn to use HAM if you can't really use it because of interference.

I am not a HAM operator. But I support them and want them to continue to exist.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19316021 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:35:12 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315979 ieolus : I'm sure it does come up every single time, because that is the first most logical question.

Well, like all politics, it seems you have to weigh to good that BPL would provide versus the good that HAM does provide.

Personally I would rather see some form of BPL, as it is a universal last-mile route into each home in the country.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315979 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:27:01 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315819 moonpuppy :
said by ieolus See Profile :

I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications?
Like clockwork, this argument comes up every single time.

If BPL does go down in one area, the interference will be gone from just that area. You want to communicate with someone in an unaffected area. If that unaffected area has BPL, and the interference, then how can you hear from someone in the affected area?

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315819 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:55:54 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315707 ieolus : I just don't get it. If powerlines go down as you said, how would BPL then cause interference with emergency HAM communications?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315707 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:33:11 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315515 moonpuppy :
said by N3OGH See Profile :

I also have a 1 acre lot with NO deed restrictions. Yep, it's soon to be tower time.
Towers are nice. Even better with no deed restrictions. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19315515 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:53:08 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314628 KA3SGM :
said by ronny_b See Profile :

said by KA3SGM See Profile :

Ham Bashers like ME !!

I'd like to bash the heads of anyone that wants to get their BPL crap within an ITU Region of MY Ham Station. ;)

Just fire up a few nice 1.5kw transmissions of SSTV or RTTY around the BPL frequencies in use.

Install a few dual winding toroids on your service entrance cables, and modulate RF onto the power companies own lines, just like carrier current broadcasting, use the Power CO's lines as YOUR antenna.
A nice 10,000 foot random wire antenna. ;)

All of which are illegal.

Ron
WB0ALI

Probably could work EME on 160m AM with that setup. :D
But BPL interference to licensed Ham operations are perfectly legal?? :huh:

I would love to see each BPL engineer even come close to passing the test for a valid Amateur radio license, and lets add the Morse requirements back in, just for fun, at a mere 13 WPM, or better 20 WPM.
Let em' flail in their own $#!t for a while :D

BPL would be Dead on Arrival because of their engineers being completely incompetent of passing a basic FCC exam, that the subjects of their interference have been already subject to.

Ron, you have an Advanced class Ham ticket as I do, why would anyone bother to seek the legal license anymore if unlicensed operators were to take over complete control of our ham bands.

I did however get to put a 640AM Carrier Current station back on the air at West Chester University, back in 1989.

Quite amazing what distance that 1 watt modulated onto the dormitory power lines can cover.

73, George-KA3SGM
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314628 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:30:59 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314459 wilburyan : I had the joy of sampling BPL at a hotel a couple of weeks ago... I really have no idea how bad it effects ham radio... but I know the TV in my hotel room was going through all sorts of crazy colors when I started downloading movies with it :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314459 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:51:45 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314404 ronny_b :
said by KA3SGM See Profile :

Ham Bashers like ME !!

I'd like to bash the heads of anyone that wants to get their BPL crap within an ITU Region of MY Ham Station. ;)

Just fire up a few nice 1.5kw transmissions of SSTV or RTTY around the BPL frequencies in use.

Install a few dual winding toroids on your service entrance cables, and modulate RF onto the power companies own lines, just like carrier current broadcasting, use the Power CO's lines as YOUR antenna.
A nice 10,000 foot random wire antenna. ;)

All of which are illegal.

Ron
WB0ALI

Probably could work EME on 160m AM with that setup. :D
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314404 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:42:34 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314129 N3OGH : Ya know, you're just up the road from me there in West Chester.

We should grab a beer sometime, or at least set up a sked on a local repeater.

Once I pay my truck off, I plan on saving up and getting my HF gear a little extra "horsepower". I'm not looking to go 1500 PEP, but a nice mid range amp would be nice.

I also have a 1 acre lot with NO deed restrictions. Yep, it's soon to be tower time.
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19314129 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:56:21 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313659 michigandave :
said by N3OGH See Profile :

When power lines go down, phone lines get wiped out by hurricanes, cell towers get overloaded from use, and fiber optic cables melt from wildfires in California, the hams and their "antiquated" technology always seem to get the message out that loved ones are safe.

Amateur radio operators are still a valuable pool of self equipped and experienced communicators proven to be reliable under the harshest of conditions...
»gcaresinc.blogspot.com/2007/09/m···rms.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313659 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:40:32 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313284 KA3SGM : Ham Bashers like ME !!

I'd like to bash the heads of anyone that wants to get their BPL crap within an ITU Region of MY Ham Station. ;)

Just fire up a few nice 1.5kw transmissions of SSTV or RTTY around the BPL frequencies in use.

Install a few dual winding toroids on your service entrance cables, and modulate RF onto the power companies own lines, just like carrier current broadcasting, use the Power CO's lines as YOUR antenna.
A nice 10,000 foot random wire antenna. ;)

Probably could work EME on 160m AM with that setup. :D
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313284 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:32:18 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313224 Hellrazor : When the power lines go down, so will BPL and the HAMS will be ok :D

Just kidding.. the FCC is a gov agency, they are always right.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313224 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:22:56 EDT Re: Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313150 anon : It's especially ironic because BPL is the true "backwards" technology. Lets pump our money into making an exact copy of our existing internet access only using Power Lines.

You CAN service rural areas with BPL, BUT you can do it JUST as easily using phone lines. You still need to run fiber out to the middle of nowhere to service 3 people, no matter what technology you use.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19313150 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:08:27 EDT Here come the ham bashers.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19312992 N3OGH : I can hear it now, all the Amateur radio bashers calling ham radio a "backwards" technology that no one uses anymore. That BPL is the future, and we should all just deal with it.

When power lines go down, phone lines get wiped out by hurricanes, cell towers get overloaded from use, and fiber optic cables melt from wildfires in California, the hams and their "antiquated" technology always seem to get the message out that loved ones are safe.

Amateur radio operators are still a valuable pool of self equipped and experienced communicators proven to be reliable under the harshest of conditions.

BPL is a still impractical application for broadband...

The FCC should let this technology die. It'll never see widespread acceptance..
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19312992 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 18:39:55 EDT