moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Wait for it......
Soon the pro-business fanboys (Comcast and ATT) will be here claiming this keeps costs down and if you don't like it, go use someone else.
I can tell you arbitration means NOTHING. My parents tried to go to arbitration with some guy over the sale of their house. Guy put down $3000 deposit and has still not bought the house. He was in default of the contract and we requested the deposit as stipulated in the contract. He signed for the certified letter telling him about the arbitration but simply ignored it. Now we have to get a lawyer and sue him the old fashion way.  |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit | said by moonpuppy  :I can tell you arbitration means NOTHING. He signed for the certified letter telling him about the arbitration but simply ignored it. Now we have to get a lawyer and sue him the old fashion way. So, why the big problem with arbitration. Don't like it, then sue anyway. Of course your chances in court are even less than in arbitration.
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to moonpuppy
That's different because you still have access to the courts. What the big businesses put in their consumer contracts is a provision for binding arbitration with no other option. Any access to the regular judicial system is explicitly removed, even to dispute the arbitration clause itself.
First it was credit card companies, now cable and telephone companies, tomorrow all kinds of businesses. The contracts are non-negotiable. So anyone who's not rich enough to have alternatives is subject to whatever terms they want to impose. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN :So, why the big problem with arbitration. Don't like it, then sue anyway. Of course your chances in court are even less than in arbitration. So now you are a lawyer?
Explain your position?
Now that you edited your post, care to explain the differences in a 2004 study you posted and the 2007 study posted in this news item. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to swhx7
said by swhx7 :First it was credit card companies, now cable and telephone companies, tomorrow all kinds of businesses. The contracts are non-negotiable. So anyone who's not rich enough to have alternatives is subject to whatever terms they want to impose. Soon, it will be every company will demand mandatory arbitration. There will be no alternatives and this will set a dangerous precedent.
My guess is most people don't realize that ALL the court TV shows (People's Court for one) are NOT courts but binding arbitration. There is no appeal. There is no recourse. You lose, that's it. |
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ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
·RCN CABLE
| reply to GOLFnSUN
You say what is the big deal, the process is supposed to be fair and unbiased. When you have the arbitrator getting paid by the corp then it is a big deal. When will people realize that more things i.e. utilities (and yes that includes cable internet and telecom industry) should be nationalized. Anything that becomes an integral part of the social system gets taken over by the society it is serving. There are a few companies controlling all the information telecoms, cable, satellite, paper media, and radio. We should have heavy regulation at least. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | reply to GOLFnSUN
Sure, but if the companies had their way you'd be barred from suing. I guess for once you're in agreement with consumer advocates and in disagreement with the companies that are trying to take away the right to sue? |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to swhx7
My employer has already forced all employees under duress (Think Choice: You choose to agree, or you choose to find yourself another job) to agree to binding arbitration for every possible dispute and violation they commit on you.
For example, wrongful termination, harassment, violations of labor laws, etc etc they make you sign a document agreeing you will never ever sue and will always use binding arbitration.
Tell me, when a citizens legal rights to remedy have all been removed, what is left? Only the illegal ones. And of course those make the person a "Criminal/Terrorist."
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL
·Speakeasy
| said by KrK :My employer has already forced all employees under duress (Think Choice: You choose to agree, or you choose to find yourself another job) to agree to binding arbitration for every possible dispute and violation they commit on you. Those contract terms are unlikely to survive judicial review.
I.E. Civil contracts are null and void when the conflict with codified laws. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| True. I've heard somewhere you can't sign your legal rights away. Sorta. I think it would just make the case more expensive, and a larger legal bill, because you'd have to not only prove your case against the employer, but overturn their arbitration agreement as well.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by KrK :True. I've heard somewhere you can't sign your legal rights away. Sorta. I think it would just make the case more expensive, and a larger legal bill, because you'd have to not only prove your case against the employer, but overturn their arbitration agreement as well. DING DING DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNAR!!!!!!!!!!!
It's only a mere roadblock to those companies that have deep pockets and lawyers on retainer.  |
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joker5656
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy :Soon the pro-business fanboys (Comcast and ATT) will be here claiming this keeps costs down and if you don't like it, go use someone else. I can tell you arbitration means NOTHING. My parents tried to go to arbitration with some guy over the sale of their house. Guy put down $3000 deposit and has still not bought the house. He was in default of the contract and we requested the deposit as stipulated in the contract. He signed for the certified letter telling him about the arbitration but simply ignored it. Now we have to get a lawyer and sue him the old fashion way. i haven't heard that before about selling a house, what i do know is the deposit he left would be forefitted (you keep it), why waste the time and money on someone when you know your not going to get it. keep the 3000 and be done. But then again it does depend if he signed the papers and everything, but then agian most contracts give the buyer a certain amount of time to get out but they won't get there deposit back |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by joker5656 :i haven't heard that before about selling a house, what i do know is the deposit he left would be forefitted (you keep it), why waste the time and money on someone when you know your not going to get it. keep the 3000 and be done. But then again it does depend if he signed the papers and everything, but then agian most contracts give the buyer a certain amount of time to get out but they won't get there deposit back The problem is the buyer still has to sign a paper "releasing" the deposit. The buyer doesn't want to lose $3000 so he won't sign the release and his agent can't release it without his consent. He can hold it until arbitration rules or a court rules. He already offered $2000 but we said no. Now his agent is going after him for $6000 because of the time and effort spent on getting him financing we he never completed. |
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HFB1217
The Wizard
Premium,ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-26
Camelot
clubs:  
| reply to GOLFnSUN
Can't take it to a lawyer the contract for arbitration with the company has you sign/agree to is that the only recourse is the arbitration and prohibites law suits and class action suits as well.
If you decline to/sign or agree they terminate your account or service for failure to accept the contact's TOS.
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Burningbird
@swbell.net
| reply to tkdslr
"Those contract terms are unlikely to survive judicial review."
Actually, this is not wholly correct. Enforcement of mandatory arbitration agreements in employee contracts can typically survive judicial review, and has been enforced in cases of discrimination, including age, sex, and disability.
It depends more on the wording than anything else, as well as state where the suits are filed. See this article for more detail.
The arbitration companies will say that the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) supports arbitration. What the EEOC supports is post-dispute arbitration processes, willing entered into by both parties after the fact, and with protections in place to ensure the process is fair and impartial.
The EEOC does NOT support binding mandatory arbitration agreements, which is what the Arbitration Fairness Act of 2007 would eliminate.
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TheBigCheese
join:2002-08-05
Voorhees, NJ
| reply to tkdslr
said by tkdslr :said by KrK :My employer has already forced all employees under duress (Think Choice: You choose to agree, or you choose to find yourself another job) to agree to binding arbitration for every possible dispute and violation they commit on you. Those contract terms are unlikely to survive judicial review. I.E. Civil contracts are null and void when the conflict with codified laws. Tell that to the guy who tried to sue Gateway over a non functioning computer. The courts upheld their arbitration clause that required him to send his case to an arbitration company in Paris France (!!!) with a $2000 payment.
The arbitration clauses usually also forbid you to join or file a class-action suit so if the company cheats everyone out of a relatively small amount, you have no recourse whatsoever.
I remember the AT&T Wireless arbitration clause ... you are forbidden to sue or join a class action but AT&T had the right to choose whether to sure or use arbitration. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by TheBigCheese :Tell that to the guy who tried to sue Gateway over a non functioning computer. The courts upheld their arbitration clause that required him to send his case to an arbitration company in Paris France (!!!) with a $2000 payment. O.k. post a link to this case. This would almost certainly not hold up since the arbitration is in another country. |
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