hahah
@sbc.com | reply to Rick
Re: Great Interview Karl
so speaketh THE RICK |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| Yup...
Its the old BWM/Lexus vs. a Chevy/Lada
People 'WANT' BWM/Lexus at Chevy/Lada prices, and expect Chevy to build a Lexus, or Lexus to cost cut to compete against Chevy.
It won't happen..
Lexus/BMW have their service and customers that expect high end and are willing to pay for it.
Chevy/Lada customers expect a semi-reliable/cheap vehicle.
If Chevy sold a 'Cadillac' (GM, its parent does), then its price is comparable.
Plain old business 101.
Weird thing is that GM suffers ... while Walmart does well. Its product specific... what you 'WANT' vs. what you 'NEED' and are willing to pay for.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| But, that's not totally how it works.
For example, when I cut off the landline and LD I was previously paying for..and switched to VOIP..I was literally able to reduce my HSI cost..in this case..comcasts 42.95/mo fee..down to zero.
My argument for a long time now has been that DSL is not the cheap service it has been portrayed to be. Both in terms of the slower speeds..and the landline you're forced to get along with it..it can be downright expensive actually in comparison to the BMW/Lexus you portray a cable hsi connection as being.
Consider for a minute a 1500k dsl connection..(that doesn't even deliver those speeds w/ overhead).
If that's 20.00 a month or 24.00 a month even on a dry connection..that works out to a WHOLE lot more money than my 6Mb comcast connection does at 42.95 month Not to mention the up to 20Mb speeds we get with powerboost when you look at that in terms of the actual speeds you're getting.
DSL costs less..because you get less. And, in many cases..and depending on how it's packaged..cable can actually be much cheaper than a telco solution.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Canezoid
join:2001-02-16
Powder Springs, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Good promo Rick.
You know, you mention nothing in this post regarding stability. Probably going to get flamed just for mentioning it, but who cares.
Price, price, price, that's all people like you whine about, kind of like they did back in the early eighties, yeah, look where that got us. I think you and Clark Howard would get along real well here.
I have 3 neighbors here that would claim just the opposite. DSL costs less because you get less, wth is that? Last time I checked Crapcastic commercials always debate apples to oranges, ya know 256 to 6M. Oh and the neighbors I've mentioned, no probs w/ Fastaccess to date, hmm, go figure.
I for one am looking forward to Uverse, I've witnessed FIOS at my relatives house in Red Bank NJ and yes, I was a bit jealous. Lot of work behind the scenes that no one even knows about. Hey, people are going to like what they like and then the next week they'll like something else, it's all good. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Mediacom
| reply to Rick
But what about those who are happy with purchasing a Chevy and driving 55 MPH instead of a Lamborghini because they don't "need" to drive 155 MPH? I will gladly take a lesser bandwidth tier if I can save money...and so will a majority of consumers. Most consumers don't need your 20 Mbps connection for $42.95/mth when they can get 1.5 Mbps for $20. Perceived cost is the real cost for most consumers. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| That's been my point all along.
Many don't use the Internet for much more than Email, eBay, and general surfing.
Sure... 6Mbps/42.95 is cheaper/Mbps than 1.5Mbps/24.95
But its the WalMart approach.. I can buy my kids socks at
Walmart for $0.99 or I can go to Sears and pay $4.99 for it.
I'm still getting what I need, but I'm paying less.
You're using the 'CostCo' approach.
I need a case of socks for $12.99, and its cheaper / sock than Walmart.
Well, not everyone needs to (or wants to) purchase high(er) speed Internet for higher price, when what they have is acceptable to them, and _really_ don't see the point in paying more.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to Canezoid
My Comcast service is very stable. As is everyone's who I know.
As for price, I've made numerous posts here at BBR stating my position being I think that whether it's DSL we're talking about or cable, I think both represent an outstanding value compared to where things used to be.
My point regarding price is in response to others who attempt to continually point out DSL as being the "cheaper" alternative. The chevy if you will, versus the BMW or Lexus.
They certainly have one thing right. Cable is, for the most part..the lexus compared to most dsl plans.
But that isn't true in terms of price many times. More and more, it's about how these services are packaged that determine the real price.
A 1.5Mb DSL plan for 20.00 that comes with a requirement that one must take a phone line in order to get it is NOT the cheaper alternative to a cable customer who pays 42.95 month for 20Mb powerboost speeds and who doesn't want that landline.
In fact, anyway you look at that scenario..it's the DSL plan that is expensive.
And so, why pay BMW prices for that chevy, eh?
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to en102
Apparently, you still aren't following me. Or, are choosing not to.
You keep painting DSL as being walmart..saying people shop there because it's cheaper and they get what they want.
Tell me. How is dsl..aka the chevy in your scenario above...cheaper in ANY respect when you're going to pay 20.00 ~25.00 per month for it PLUS have a forced bundling requirement in the form of a landline you HAVE to have to get it...when, for the same money..a cable customer who does not want that landline decides to pay 42.95 per month for up to 20Mb service?
The cable customer is then getting the BMW/Lexus for the SAME COST..or even less..than the walmart customer is getting their 1.5Mb line for.
Isn't dsl in that scenario the far more EXPENSIVE option, no matter how you want to look at it?
And, as long as there is this forced landline bundling scenario, that is EXACTLY how consumers should look at it.
They should reject your notion that dsl is somehow cheaper.
You keep pointing to these low introductory dsl priced specials and saying LOOK! Here's the walmart of the telco industry. And that is EXACTLY what AT&T wants to try to portray.
The reality is FAR different because in terms of speed AND in terms of how consumers can now choose to bundle other services..cable can be the REAL value all the way around.
And, you know what? People are now wising up to this fact.
It's why AT&T is starting to drop the landline requirement.
Because they see that younger people are just fleeing those landlines left and right..and simply don't want them anymore.
When there is no landline requirement..THEN..I can agree with your assessment that then MAYBE dsl can be the cheaper alternative. But..it's still going to be about paying less..for less speed. And comparing apples to apples..and that 1.5Mb and the much higher speed of cable..it's still always going to be expensive in those relative terms.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Mediacom
| said by Rick  :When there is no landline requirement..THEN..I can agree with your assessment that then MAYBE dsl can be the cheaper alternative. But..it's still going to be about paying less..for less speed. And comparing apples to apples..and that 1.5Mb and the much higher speed of cable.. it's still always going to be expensive in those relative terms. Considering that a lot of DSL customers are no longer required to have that terrible landline, I guess we can all agree that DSL is the lower cost alternative to cable's more expensive offering. And the only relativity that matters is the money coming out of my wallet. I'll wager you that 9 out of 10 times, the average American consumer will see it the same way. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
edit:
September 14th, @10:59PM
| "Considering that a lot of DSL customers are no longer required to have that terrible landline, I guess we can all agree that DSL is the lower cost alternative to cable's more expensive offering."
I certainly wouldn't call it..a lot of people. Some yes.
And AT&T is moving in the right direction on that.
But still, many times when you take out the landline, the dsl costs soar. And becomes no bargain at all.
But again, even taking out the landline..let's take a look at it.
A 1500k line for 24.00 versus a 6Mb with powerboost up to 20Mb for 42.95.
A 19.00 month difference divided by 30 days. We're talking about pocket change here..63 cents per day.
Is that extra 18,000k speeds worth that? I SURE think so.
I think it's a HUGE value compared to that DSL line.
It is flat out 12 times the FULL speed of that DSL line for just 63 cents per day more.
And again, that is based on the unbundled dsl price..assuming someone can even get that now.
What does that say about how expensive DSL is when you have to factor IN the landline?
It's VASTLY overpriced IMHO.
But..granted..for a very budget conscious consumer who wants to do nothing more than surf and email..perhaps that 1.5Mb line is enough. And, if 23.95/mo is all they can afford, then so be it.
But I just don't see how anyone can really arrive at it being the better value.
No way is that the case.
Again though, my point is that by eliminating that landline..and going with VOIP..many people can realize the extra savings that way to MORE than make up the 63 cents per day difference and to actually make Cable LESS expensive than virtually any form of DSL.
Really, it's like getting the lexus for less than a cheap chevy's price. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to Rick
Lets compare...
$24.95 + $10 POTS = Internet + dialtone
$42.95 = Internet
$34.95 --
Canada = Hollywood North |
|
en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to Rick
Out of the +50 million broadband subscribers out there... how many _really_ care that they're at the bleeding edge speed ?
I would _really_ like to see (if anyone could provide) the % of customers at each rate on cable, dsl, etc. How many customers are satisfied with their current rate (speed)? How many want to pay more for higher speed ?
20Mbps won't get my SSL session any faster to my work VPN.
My console (SSH) won't be noticably faster (it was fast enough tethered over 3G UMTS/HSDPA).
Where I would notice it:
Download of ISO / p0rn / Bittorrent / Webhosting / Spam relaying.
Just like POTS is vastly overpriced (over regulated FCC / BS cr@p), TV service is also overpriced. DTV has given my +180 channels on 3 sets for --
Canada = Hollywood North |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| "I would _really_ like to see (if anyone could provide) the % of customers at each rate on cable, dsl, etc. How many customers are satisfied with their current rate (speed)? How many want to pay more for higher speed ?"
Great point! and one Mr Rick misses every time.
He sits there pontificating based on his views and the views of this site....but of course he has no clue what the most people want.
they want speed FASTER than dial up. most cant tell the difference. when that changes so will the industry...it aint there yet...no matter what he says.
Who do i think has a clue....Rick or the biggest ISP in the country!!!!!!
He can call me a Troll if he wants....but actually what he wants is to subdue competition.
Comcast Rick?
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
| reply to Rick
With all of these analogies to autos, then we should be able to apply the Lemon Law to both telcos and cablecos. As for Comcrap, you should feel fortunate that you live where they don't have the signal issues that a major metro area has. Entire sections working fine next to areas that are completely FUBAR. As far as price went, I've had both ATT dsl and Comcrap. I hate them both.
The only positive things I could say about dsl is 1)it's not dial up and 2)they didn't raise their price every 6 months like cable. I moved so now its cable. For basic cable I'm paying $69 and 49 for HSI. But yes, at least I have a choice.
So you say I have a lexus with comcast huh....feels like a '74 ford maverick to me!
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Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset! |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
edit:
September 15th, @02:16PM
| reply to hobgoblin
Hob, about all I can add to this is that if that 50 cents a day difference that it all amounts to between having a 1.5Mb slowsky dsl connection..and a 20Mb HSI cable connection really matters all that much to you..
then truly..I'm sorry for your financial predicament.
But, the fact of the matter is..for many of us who don't have and certainly don't want a landline..that difference is even less. Or..perhaps even non existent.
It certainly is in my case, with all the savings I realize from voip.
I'm really not sure how or why all this escapes you.
Based on your own statements contained in a post or posts on this website, one could only assume that apparently you're an employee of a Cable ISP.
Is that how little you think of your own company and industry? Are you really this unable to differentiate between these offerings..and choose instead to make the competition the leader in your own mind?
If so, I sincerely hope that you will reconsider your own position..and perhaps even start applying for a position with AT&T.
It seems you would be happier with them.
Sad to say though, I 'm not sure they'll be hiring much longer. Losing as many landlines as they are..and offering nothing but slow connections overall isn't a good prognosis I fear for their future.
Let's hope I'm wrong..at least until you retire. |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| "Hob, about all I can add to this is that if that 50 cents a day difference that it all amounts to between having a 1.5Mb slowsky dsl connection..and a 20Mb HSI cable connection really matters all that much to you..
then truly..I'm sorry for your financial predicament."
I think you have me confused with someone else. I have not mentioned cost in any of my posts.
"Is that how little you think of your own company and industry? Are you really this unable to differentiate between these offerings..and choose instead to make the competition the leader in your own mind?"
I am not making anyone the leader...not sure how you deduced that. I welcome competition in the market place. Competition benefits customers and I am a customer. You are telling the world that a service sucks because its not as fast as your connection. I am saying that in the market place, speed is not as important as other things AT THIS TIME. Quality service, home grown support, the ability to bundle and convenience are all more important to the average customer.
Speed is not the first thing in peoples mind....for the average customer. As I said before...as long as its faster than Dial up...and good value people will come.
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| My posts re: uverse and AT&T encompass a wide range of issues I have with them. Certainly not just speed..although it is one factor I address.
Those factors include overall value of dsl versus cable hsi..
their marketing schemes..
this being their next generation service..
their use of public access ways to install vrads..
their tearing up roads to deliver questionable service that many already have access to.
My points are all very well thought out and relevant.
Really Hob..you and others should just move on from the bashing, misquoting and misinterpretation of my posts and into something more constructive.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| I see and because your posts are well thought out and relevant no one should be allowed to disagree and debate the subjects you bring up.
including speed as that has been your main focus in this thread.
I understand now.
Sorry.
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| said by hobgoblin :I see and because your posts are well thought out and relevant no one should be allowed to disagree and debate the subjects you bring up. If what you did was just that, I'd have no problem at all.
unfortunately..you rarely stop there and instead choose to take everything into something of a personal nature.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| "If what you did was just that, I'd have no problem at all.
unfortunately..you rarely stop there and instead choose to take everything into something of a personal nature."
I believe there is a very fine moderator group on this site who will respond and remove offending posts if you flag them.
When you challenge the Biggest ISP in the country in public you have to expect that people will challenge you. People are interested whether you have extensive experience in marketing and supporting High speed products and Video services or whether you are sitting in your parents basement typing.
These are not personal attacks, its a follow up discussion.
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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