Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| Great Interview Karl
Congrats.
Wes, assuming you'll read this which certainly may be the case given you know how skeptical some around here have been..I'll give it to you straight.
First, it's no secret at all that I'm probably one of the most outspoken Uverse critics around this site. Some attribute that to the very false impression that I either work for comcast, or am paid in some fashion by them. Both couldn't be further from the truth. My going on 8 year history here was spent mostly in the RR forum..and I've only been with Comcast since the adelphia buyout earlier this year.
What I am..plain and simple..is a consumer who's simply calling it like I see it. And mainly, comparing it to what I ALREADY have. And that should matter to you because it's what your company is up against.
What I also have seen in my lifetime is one of your predecessor companies..namely ameritech..ALREADY try to enter the cable tv business and try to win not only my business but many other ohio residents as well during my years living there. And, for all intents and purposes..they failed at it. It's WOW (wide open west)..who made it work after you sold it to them. What that shows I think is how hard it is to crack the TV market that is so dominated by the cable tv industry. It's the SAME problem that cable operators have in cracking the telco industry. But they are doing it because of the perceived quality of their Digital voice offerings..not to mention the huge savings people can realize for the feature rich, long distance included..service.
I would start out by saying that I totally disagree with you. I think that 100k customers by now..out of your huge service area and all the markets you're already serving..and homes you already pass..is a failure.
You have 17.3 Million broadband customers nationwide.
And 100k uverse customers. That is not good..no matter how you try to paint it.
One can also look in these BBR forums and see the excitement levels around both your companies and verizons rollout as well. FIOS..is exciting. It's new. It's next generation.
People are clamoring for it...want it. Now.
Uverse? I see VERY little of this. And that's not because I'm down on it. It's because the majority feel this way.
Why do I feel this way? Do I have a personal grudge with AT&T? No. Not at all. It's just that I think your company can, and should be..doing much better. You should be the leader and the one rolling out the real next generation technology to compete with the cable co's.
The problem is several fold. First, entering such an established market..you have the natural decades long affiliation people have with their cable TV service.
And, that's hard enough to crack on it's own.
But yet..you want to do it with your copper lines that simply are carrying with it a decades old stigma. And people question how it's going to deliver tomorrows hdtv..hsi..phone..as you have promised it can.
You are rolling out a service that in terms of speed..is delivering people 6Mb..that's REALLY 5.5 in disguise counting overhead. Mr Warnock..today, I receive 4 times that with comcast. Four times that and we aren't even talking about their up and coming docsis 3.0 rollout..slated to begin next year.
Sir..last year and even the year before..we heard a lot about uverse. But it always seemed to be..hurry up..and wait. And, as you state..at years end..you had 3,000 customers. That gives the perception of problems. Of vaporware..if you understand that term.
And, with people like me simply not believing your companies speech. It seemed designed to head off the competition..to offer something that was still very much on the drawing board.
And today..25 or more markets later..with a LOT of homes passed..it's still 100k customers. That is NOTHING in terms of your service area. You are the largest telco apparently on planet earth now. 100k people is NOTHING and you SHOULD have that many people..even with your rollout in your own corporate backyard.
STOP MAKING EXCUSES MR WARNOCK. And realize the writing that is on the wall.
What is being discussed everywhere is the perceived failure of this service. The lack of excitement about it. And the reasons why people believe this is the case. To simply save AT&T and it's shareholders some money. NOT to deliver a world class next generation product.
WHY..do I care? For two reasons.
First..there is NOTHING inexpensive about Comcast.
It's not overly expensive for what we get..but they operate at this point as if they control the technology world.
And perhaps it's because they DO..and can get away with it.
The cable industries increases the last decade have been HUGE percentage wise...and without real competition..there is nothing that will stop that.
And, I'm trying to give it to you straight..and tell you that if a uverse salesman shows up on my doorstep..there's nothing I see that will sell me on going with AT&T at this point. Is your price less? Yes..I guess so..but so too do you get less. And I'm not interested in less for my money.
And neither is the millions of people who subscribe to cable.
What else do I worry about? This is your NEXT Generation service Sir. This is tomorrow and 2010 for AT&T.
If we're REALLY going to compare this..then we have to compare it with DOCSIS 3.0.
Sir..docsis 3.0 is going to kill your company.
I'm just not sure what you'll have left when that rolls out.
And, I'm not being overly pessimistic either.
I'm just calling a spade..a spade here. From this customers point of view.
You say that uverse can go faster. I hope it can. But what I fear is that you'll be getting into the same scenario that many dsl customers have faced. A service of haves..and have not's. Where some get the higher speeds..and many don't.
This is not the consistent service that cable co's provide for the most part. It's very inconsistent at best.
The bottom line for me is that there is NOTHING i'd like to do more than to see AT&T get with the program. The REAL program. And do what Verizon is doing..and go with FTTH.
As you know sir..that rollout will take years. Which is why it's so important to start now. Verizon management didn't just sit around one day and decide they'd love to have to blow 5 times as much as AT&T is. They saw the writing on the wall. The same writing I suspect that I write about here.
And, you know what? It's paying huge dividends for them now.
Look at the excitement..and THEIR customer growth.
It takes money..to make money.
It is TIME for AT&T to start spending it if you want to reap the same returns.
In closing I will say that there is NOTHING that is preventing me from changing my avatar and BBR name once again..in the future. Nor preventing millions of cable customers from signing on with AT&T.
That depends though, on you...offering US..something we really want.
AT&T...FTTH.
Do it now.
~Rick
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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hahah
@sbc.com | so speaketh THE RICK |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| Yup...
Its the old BWM/Lexus vs. a Chevy/Lada
People 'WANT' BWM/Lexus at Chevy/Lada prices, and expect Chevy to build a Lexus, or Lexus to cost cut to compete against Chevy.
It won't happen..
Lexus/BMW have their service and customers that expect high end and are willing to pay for it.
Chevy/Lada customers expect a semi-reliable/cheap vehicle.
If Chevy sold a 'Cadillac' (GM, its parent does), then its price is comparable.
Plain old business 101.
Weird thing is that GM suffers ... while Walmart does well. Its product specific... what you 'WANT' vs. what you 'NEED' and are willing to pay for.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| But, that's not totally how it works.
For example, when I cut off the landline and LD I was previously paying for..and switched to VOIP..I was literally able to reduce my HSI cost..in this case..comcasts 42.95/mo fee..down to zero.
My argument for a long time now has been that DSL is not the cheap service it has been portrayed to be. Both in terms of the slower speeds..and the landline you're forced to get along with it..it can be downright expensive actually in comparison to the BMW/Lexus you portray a cable hsi connection as being.
Consider for a minute a 1500k dsl connection..(that doesn't even deliver those speeds w/ overhead).
If that's 20.00 a month or 24.00 a month even on a dry connection..that works out to a WHOLE lot more money than my 6Mb comcast connection does at 42.95 month Not to mention the up to 20Mb speeds we get with powerboost when you look at that in terms of the actual speeds you're getting.
DSL costs less..because you get less. And, in many cases..and depending on how it's packaged..cable can actually be much cheaper than a telco solution.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Canezoid
join:2001-02-16
Powder Springs, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Good promo Rick.
You know, you mention nothing in this post regarding stability. Probably going to get flamed just for mentioning it, but who cares.
Price, price, price, that's all people like you whine about, kind of like they did back in the early eighties, yeah, look where that got us. I think you and Clark Howard would get along real well here.
I have 3 neighbors here that would claim just the opposite. DSL costs less because you get less, wth is that? Last time I checked Crapcastic commercials always debate apples to oranges, ya know 256 to 6M. Oh and the neighbors I've mentioned, no probs w/ Fastaccess to date, hmm, go figure.
I for one am looking forward to Uverse, I've witnessed FIOS at my relatives house in Red Bank NJ and yes, I was a bit jealous. Lot of work behind the scenes that no one even knows about. Hey, people are going to like what they like and then the next week they'll like something else, it's all good. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Mediacom
| reply to Rick
But what about those who are happy with purchasing a Chevy and driving 55 MPH instead of a Lamborghini because they don't "need" to drive 155 MPH? I will gladly take a lesser bandwidth tier if I can save money...and so will a majority of consumers. Most consumers don't need your 20 Mbps connection for $42.95/mth when they can get 1.5 Mbps for $20. Perceived cost is the real cost for most consumers. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| That's been my point all along.
Many don't use the Internet for much more than Email, eBay, and general surfing.
Sure... 6Mbps/42.95 is cheaper/Mbps than 1.5Mbps/24.95
But its the WalMart approach.. I can buy my kids socks at
Walmart for $0.99 or I can go to Sears and pay $4.99 for it.
I'm still getting what I need, but I'm paying less.
You're using the 'CostCo' approach.
I need a case of socks for $12.99, and its cheaper / sock than Walmart.
Well, not everyone needs to (or wants to) purchase high(er) speed Internet for higher price, when what they have is acceptable to them, and _really_ don't see the point in paying more.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| reply to Rick
Rick you are hilarious
"What is being discussed everywhere is the perceived failure of this service."
Everywhere? We were talking about Football, The Yankees and Red Sox and what we are doing tomorrow night. Not a word about Uverse.
"I receive 4 times that with comcast."
Really...You have a 22 mb service or POWERBOOST? Apples to Ferrets as usual.
"If we're REALLY going to compare this..then we have to compare it with DOCSIS 3.0."
So now you are comparing it to something no one has? Good one.
You are funny!
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to Canezoid
My Comcast service is very stable. As is everyone's who I know.
As for price, I've made numerous posts here at BBR stating my position being I think that whether it's DSL we're talking about or cable, I think both represent an outstanding value compared to where things used to be.
My point regarding price is in response to others who attempt to continually point out DSL as being the "cheaper" alternative. The chevy if you will, versus the BMW or Lexus.
They certainly have one thing right. Cable is, for the most part..the lexus compared to most dsl plans.
But that isn't true in terms of price many times. More and more, it's about how these services are packaged that determine the real price.
A 1.5Mb DSL plan for 20.00 that comes with a requirement that one must take a phone line in order to get it is NOT the cheaper alternative to a cable customer who pays 42.95 month for 20Mb powerboost speeds and who doesn't want that landline.
In fact, anyway you look at that scenario..it's the DSL plan that is expensive.
And so, why pay BMW prices for that chevy, eh?
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to en102
Apparently, you still aren't following me. Or, are choosing not to.
You keep painting DSL as being walmart..saying people shop there because it's cheaper and they get what they want.
Tell me. How is dsl..aka the chevy in your scenario above...cheaper in ANY respect when you're going to pay 20.00 ~25.00 per month for it PLUS have a forced bundling requirement in the form of a landline you HAVE to have to get it...when, for the same money..a cable customer who does not want that landline decides to pay 42.95 per month for up to 20Mb service?
The cable customer is then getting the BMW/Lexus for the SAME COST..or even less..than the walmart customer is getting their 1.5Mb line for.
Isn't dsl in that scenario the far more EXPENSIVE option, no matter how you want to look at it?
And, as long as there is this forced landline bundling scenario, that is EXACTLY how consumers should look at it.
They should reject your notion that dsl is somehow cheaper.
You keep pointing to these low introductory dsl priced specials and saying LOOK! Here's the walmart of the telco industry. And that is EXACTLY what AT&T wants to try to portray.
The reality is FAR different because in terms of speed AND in terms of how consumers can now choose to bundle other services..cable can be the REAL value all the way around.
And, you know what? People are now wising up to this fact.
It's why AT&T is starting to drop the landline requirement.
Because they see that younger people are just fleeing those landlines left and right..and simply don't want them anymore.
When there is no landline requirement..THEN..I can agree with your assessment that then MAYBE dsl can be the cheaper alternative. But..it's still going to be about paying less..for less speed. And comparing apples to apples..and that 1.5Mb and the much higher speed of cable..it's still always going to be expensive in those relative terms.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to hobgoblin
"Everywhere? We were talking about Football, The Yankees and Red Sox and what we are doing tomorrow night. Not a word about Uverse."
Last I checked, we were at Broadbandreports.com...not nfl.com.
Did you take a wrong turn somewhere? Here, let me guide you back. »www.nfl.com/
"You have a 22 mb service or POWERBOOST? Apples to Ferrets as usual."
Really, I don't see it that way at all. Comcast delivers these speeds very consistently for many of the things I and others use the net for. It certainly covers general surfing..emailing..uploading and downloading good sized files..updates..programs we download. And, it's also been my experience that depending on the time of day, powerboost can certainly last longer than some have portrayed it. At most offpeak times, in fact..I can download the full OOL test file at full 20Mb + speeds. So, does that make it a 20Mb + service? I'd certainly say it does. I realize that when you were working at adelphia, our predecessor company..we were only getting 4Mb but things certainly did change when Comcast took over. I guess this is what the net is supposed to be like..eh?
And, re: Docsis 3.0: you say
"So now you are comparing it to something no one has? Good one."
And, when exactly do you think that uverse will be available to most people? Is that right now? Isn't AT&T's projections for it continually all about what 2008 and 2009?
Isn't it then only fair to compare that with Comcasts and others stated plans for that time frame?
I thought you'd agree. 
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Mediacom
| reply to Rick
said by Rick  :When there is no landline requirement..THEN..I can agree with your assessment that then MAYBE dsl can be the cheaper alternative. But..it's still going to be about paying less..for less speed. And comparing apples to apples..and that 1.5Mb and the much higher speed of cable.. it's still always going to be expensive in those relative terms. Considering that a lot of DSL customers are no longer required to have that terrible landline, I guess we can all agree that DSL is the lower cost alternative to cable's more expensive offering. And the only relativity that matters is the money coming out of my wallet. I'll wager you that 9 out of 10 times, the average American consumer will see it the same way. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
edit:
September 14th, @10:59PM
| "Considering that a lot of DSL customers are no longer required to have that terrible landline, I guess we can all agree that DSL is the lower cost alternative to cable's more expensive offering."
I certainly wouldn't call it..a lot of people. Some yes.
And AT&T is moving in the right direction on that.
But still, many times when you take out the landline, the dsl costs soar. And becomes no bargain at all.
But again, even taking out the landline..let's take a look at it.
A 1500k line for 24.00 versus a 6Mb with powerboost up to 20Mb for 42.95.
A 19.00 month difference divided by 30 days. We're talking about pocket change here..63 cents per day.
Is that extra 18,000k speeds worth that? I SURE think so.
I think it's a HUGE value compared to that DSL line.
It is flat out 12 times the FULL speed of that DSL line for just 63 cents per day more.
And again, that is based on the unbundled dsl price..assuming someone can even get that now.
What does that say about how expensive DSL is when you have to factor IN the landline?
It's VASTLY overpriced IMHO.
But..granted..for a very budget conscious consumer who wants to do nothing more than surf and email..perhaps that 1.5Mb line is enough. And, if 23.95/mo is all they can afford, then so be it.
But I just don't see how anyone can really arrive at it being the better value.
No way is that the case.
Again though, my point is that by eliminating that landline..and going with VOIP..many people can realize the extra savings that way to MORE than make up the 63 cents per day difference and to actually make Cable LESS expensive than virtually any form of DSL.
Really, it's like getting the lexus for less than a cheap chevy's price. |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
edit:
September 14th, @11:03PM
| reply to Rick
Rick,
The word everywhere means
in every place or part; in all places.
not just this forum inhabited by a handful of people. Some of us have a life.
but you knew that.
Who knows what Uverse will be offering when Docsis 3 gets to your area...you don't.
Competition is good..I am sure you agree with that..and anything that competes is good...again you agree with that.
Your tirades remind me of an auto designer who would never make a car because it could not compete with a Rolls Royce.
Hob
and now....you don't have a 20mb service..you have a great marketing ploy called powerboost...which fools fools.
smoke and mirors
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| "Some of us have a life."
I dunno hob. With your post count running almost double mine..I'm starting to think your life IS bbr. 
Posts: 10842
Visits: 3702
"Who knows what Uverse will be offering when Docsis 3 gets to your area...you don't."
True..but it's been demonstrated already to be easily capable of 150Mb speeds by none other than Comcast CEO himself.
Comcast has CLEARLY been on the cutting edge of giving us more speed when they can..for the same money.
Is 50Mb to 75Mb tiers for docsis 3.0 out of the question when many of us already see 20~30Mb w/ powerboost as it stands now? I certainly don't think so.
And, you know as well as I do that Uverse is in a WORLD of hurt if and when that happens.
"Competition is good..I am sure you agree with that..and anything that competes is good...again you agree with that."
ABSOLUTELY. And you can put that in big bold letters.
And that is what my posts are ALL About. The NEED for WORLD CLASS competition between AT&T and Comcast..and the other cable co's in the areas they service.
Verizon is doing just that. Why can't AT&T?
"Your tirades remind me of an auto designer who would never make a car because it could not compete with a Rolls Royce."
Hob hob hob hob..HOB. NOTHING could be further from the truth.
What I DON'T want to see however, is for AT&T to build 386sx computers and hope there's a real market for them next year..in a world of dual and quad core pentiums.
Because guess what? There won't be.
They are wasting their money. And time. And might as well do it right the first time around.
AT&T...FTTH.
It's the ONLY right answer.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin :and now....you don't have a 20mb service..you have a great marketing ploy called powerboost...which fools fools. smoke and mirors Smoke and mirrors Hob. Is that what this is?
I'd call this absolutely awesome Hob. And flat out 4 times what you and your former adelphia team was able to get me and others.
I'm sorry you couldn't manage to pull it off yourselves.
And, BTW hob...note the PB speeds and where they are even at 41MB into the 64MB file. 2.26MB a second Hob.
23,000k speeds.
WOW.huh?
You think that uverse compares with this?
Just wait until you see what DOCSIS 3.0 can do eh?
Say GOOD NIGHT AT&T.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| reply to Rick
We have discussed this Rick....as I am in the business and able to actually solve peoples issues first hand my post count clearly reflects that.
So you think because the Comcast CEO managed a 150mb speed that this will translate itself to Mrs Jones at number 23? 
Oh I see... to compete you have to build something bigger and better.
Whats Verizons total investment so far in Fios?
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs: | reply to Rick
Speed tests are not real world.
Show me a real world test.
Hob |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| An OOL 64MB FTP isn't a pure example of a real world test?
Hob, I'm ashamed of you..
You should know that being in the business.
And again..to keep this on topic...one needs to consider that this is what comcast is offering TODAY.
What will next year and docsis 3.0 be like if they're doing this right now?
I HONESTLY THINK IT IS LIGHTS OUT FOR AT&T.
The DEMISE of that company.
If they don't quickly change their ways.
You and others say it can't happen? What is AOL now with their dialup business? Fading fast and losing a million customers PER QUARTER.
Does that number sound familiar to AT&T? It should..because their landline business is falling faster than the titanic on it's last plunge down.
What else do they have Hob?..for a business that is?
Will the iphones edge service save them? Hell, other cell carriers are now blowing that away in terms of speeds.
Uverse save them maybe?
LOL!
Hob...AT&T is IN TROUBLE.
Today..and I do mean RIGHT NOW..
they NEED to ditch uverse.
Drop it like Comcast dropped your former companies 4Mb speeds..
and get with the REAL program.
Before it is..too late.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| "An OOL 64MB FTP isn't a pure example of a real world test?
Hob, I'm ashamed of you..
You should know that being in the business."
No its smoke and mirrors..its set up for cablevision customers to show them how cool their connection is.
Go download something REAL WORLD...show me that. Not a faked up speed test.
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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