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Is this good for a T1? Hello all,
Before we get into this, I'd like to reference
my last thread which will explain pretty much
anything concerning location and the usual basics.
ISDN Forum >
»Am I out of options?
Since then I've come up with a "Extended T1" as an alternative. Partially because the neighbors are really wanting better access, and I'm starting to get the WISP bug and could use this as a test bed(but that's for another section).
What I've come up with is this:
Which if you plug in Indiana numbers you get the option
of $199 a month with $500 in startup costs with a 5 year contract. They supply the Cisco router and maintain it.
To their benefit, their agent was very pleasant to speak with and helpful. The tailored quote I received was for $199 a month and $1,500 in startup costs for 5 years. Ouch.
Being that the startup just tripled, I can't swing that right away, but perhaps within a few months. I'm going to take a guess that the 3x increase is due to distance and not that I have a home office. The 1.5 Mbps down and 256 Kbps up was discussed as minimum guaranteed speeds, and the up could be increased at any time. This leads me to believe they are limiting it at the router - partially why they want to maintain it so much.
Now the question I pose, is what more should I be asking Win.net about their service and is there perhaps yet a better option?
So far I already plan to ask if I can get a copy of their TOS (for resale WISP restrictions), and what type of install time we are looking at. I'm also somewhat concerned about just what type of T1 this is, if they are marketing it as "extended DSL-T1".
How a deal was struck with the IN CoC and AT&T somewhat interests me as well, because you would think other regions would want this type of monthly pricing. I simply can't find any documentation besides those pages and one prior calendar date for a getNET classroom.
Any thoughts or questions would be much appreciated.
I'm not an expert on T1 lines, but I do know that a T1 line is 1.5 megabits down and 1.5 megabits up; anything less than that, and it's either not T1, or they're limiting you.
Steamboat Springs, CO
reply to JGZinv
"extended" probably means that they are using inexpensive frame relay access from the local Bell company. "DSL-T1" means that they are using a DSLAM instead of dedicated access. they're wishy washy on the speeds, just like they are wishy washy on DSL speeds -- because DSL is a shared service and most likely oversubscribed which will cause you delays and limited bandwidth availability from time to time. If you're using the internet a whole bunch, you'll likely notice them, but most of the time the speeds will be much faster than what you've got. You'll have to use it for a while before you get to the point of being comfortable reselling it as a WISP business. With the expansion of EVDO services, I would be really afraid of signing up with win.net for an extended period of time -- but they've got you by the short ones with that ever escalating install fee. You might find a local Sprint store and ask the pimple faced teenagers when EVDO will be launched in your area. I didn't read the whole 4 page thread you linked to: why did you not do ISDN BRI?
reply to JGZinv
Fox - Hey, nice to see you around.
Well the previous thread was dated back in 4th quarter of last year. Since then we've been able to retain our business and home coming out of a divorce, so we have stability. As to ISDN directly, I haven't "given it the boot" completely. But I look at the idea that there is potential for WISP out here, trying to find anyone at AT&T that has a clue about ISDN was extremely difficult before - which translates to possible billing and tech support problems down the road. The last thing simply being speed.
Downloading 600 MB for 10 hours on ISDN vs. 1 hour (maybe bit more) on this "T1" to me is a major difference. I really don't have that kind of time to waste being both business and personal use, as I'm tethered to a PC about 19 hours out of a day. I'm looking at getting into a bit more of the online gaming myself on the personal end. 21K AOL doesn't cut it.
The only thing I find of concern in your post, is the slowdown due to being over subscribed. I already know there is users along the main highway (that links with mine) on DSL and likely a shopping plaza that is seeing growth about 5 miles away.
As to using this as a WISP test bed, my one neighbor I know would immediately jump on should I have it available. His usage now consists of normal browsing and his daughters mostly on IM programs (teenagers). I would suspect being teens, they'd probably get into video content not long after getting connected. Based upon geographic's, I've got another 15 homes I could potentially serve in under a mile LOS with no competition. My question being - would this limited line handle say 10-15 users (under the assumption of typical home use)? I'm aware of the pitfalls of everyone trying to get large files at once.
Also received a reply from the company, they are willing to cut up the $1,500 and spread it out over a 6 month period. I.E. $250 extra for 6 months. A little easier to swallow.
I also received their TOS contract and read their Use Policy - there is absolutely nothing in there about reselling the connection. So it would appear that it would be fine. The only thing I see to question is in the CPE section...
"If "Real IPs" are needed, how many?
(If real IPs, the number should be greater than the number of machines on the network, unless the customer will be doing NAT on their network. If Customer is doing NAT, note this in the "Other Info" field below"
I've got an idea, but what would you call a "real IP?"
Can anyone refresh my memory as to if NAT is needed on a small wireless system?
The line was described as thus:
"1.544 megabits per second download and 256k upload
50 e-mail boxes
IP addresses as needed in accordance to Win.Net and American Registry for Internet Numberss (ARIN) policies.
24 hour monitoring
24 hour technical support for line outages
Free Router lease and replacement as defined in Clause 5"
The uptime (which actually sounds pretty good credit wise)...
Service Level (100% Uptime)
Win.Net guarantees that its service will be up 100% of the time outside of Maintenance periods. In the event of a service outage, Win.Net, at the Customers request, will credit the Customer an amount equal to five (5) times the normal rate of charge for the outage period. This is the sole remedy for a failure to meet the 100% uptime guarantee. An outage shall be deemed to have commenced upon the opening of a trouble ticket with Win.Net and shall end when the service is restored. An outage shall not be deemed to occur due to circumstance outside of Win.Nets control such a problems in the Customers network, a power outage at the Customers location, or an act of nature. The outage period may also be reduced for periods where Win.Net, if necessary, is unable to gain access to the Customers facilities such as over a weekend.
So basically, there's nothing about not monitoring your own usage of the line or reselling it out. The only thing I'd run into is what content the other's would be using/doing over the net - if that violated the TOS/AUP. To which would have to be covered in a liability contract from me to them.
As to EVDO, I was able to confirm I don't have EVDO out here since we picked up a Verizon phone the other day. The EVDO drops off at the "base" of the mountain/hill we're on... which to set up a repeater we're looking at no LOS or a couple miles of wiring. What I find strange, is I I'm listed in the Revision A zone... but have no service.
Image > »i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/Gu···-Map.png
Steamboat Springs, CO
relative to EVDO, don't forget to check with Sprint, which has a similar service. If you're counting on moolah from other subscribers, I would get an affirmative OK about the resale question ... otherwise they shut you off and your install fee is long gone. you can get advice about setting up a WISP at the Wireless Service Providers forum here at BBR »Wireless Service Providers
Well checking with Sprint, their EVDO map is identical to Verizon's. So coverage would likely be the same as above.
I might check around here for some reports on how
EVDO handles weather and other conditions. But it still doesn't change the fact I have no signal sadly.
I've been reading up on WISPs the last few days, BBR being one of the main resources.
I'll see what Win.net has to say about resale, although I didn't want to unnecessarily give away the idea if they hadn't thought of it already.
Just as an update here:
Been over at the EVDOforums and that appears to be a very
viable alternative to the T1. Sprint does service my area where as Verizon does not.
As to the T1 itself, I found out that resale is allowed, wireless AP is fine as well as hosting, time to install is about 2 weeks. Lastly the tech did his own latency tests and gave me the figures of 3 ms to his NOC and 38ms to Yahoo's site. The T1 is a full T1, just limited at the router. The T1 would go through the same room at AT&T's CO where they have the T3 backbones setup.
So it's going to boil down to the hard figures and what I'm getting from each side. ISDN I think is beat out by EVDO even with the latency being a bit more on average.
So it's T1-lite vs. EVDO, we'll see who takes it.