Re: Total BS! in

Re: Total BS! in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17336766 en Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:39:35 EDT Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:39:35 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17346218 darkonc :

said by gc444

:

With as many people that knew about this I knew I had little chance at getting one, but perhaps they should look at other ways to sell this stuff so that more people will at least get a shot at it. Not being able to pull up the page means you have no chance, at least with the lottery you have just as good of a chance to win as everybody else.

I.E. one in a Million (or more) -- You actually had a better chance getting the X-Box than winning the lottery. The long wait was simply your version of 'getting the last 4 numbers wrong'. The people who got the X-Box were the people who actually managed to get the packet timinhgs that allowed them to complete the transaction in the first 28 seconds that it wasn't sold out.

If your connections took longer than that, then you didn't win the X-box lottery.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17346218 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:31:38 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17345144 batterup :

said by emptywig

:

Do these people know what the internet is?

Yes I know what he Internet is; TUBES, massive massive TUBES, sticky massive TUBES.

With *Net-Neutrality* Amazon, nor anyone else, will ever be able to avoid a situation like this. With *Net-Neutrality* Amazon, nor anyone else, will be able to buy a fast non-sticky TUBE.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17345144 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:38:15 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17345094 batterup : Listen, this is the fact Jack, business 101. A retailer wants a 50% markup at retail. Wall-mart does not pay the same price wholesale as the boutique at the mall. Wall-mart has its own distribution chain that not many retailers can compete with. How many boutiques have a fleet of eighteen wheelers?

Now it is only speculation what a particular retailer paid wholesale for a particular item at a particular time in a particular situation. No one in the world knows the answer to that except that particular retailer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17345094 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:27:38 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17344032 emptywig : YES! Thank you Jakerome! Common sense and basic mathematics education come to the rescue!

I just roll on the floor holding my gut when people whine "There's no way they sold all of those in 2-3 minutes." Do these people know what the internet is? And that millions of people use it?
--
Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17344032 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:46:02 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17344010 emptywig : Most of the computer hardware industry DOES survive on such razor-thin margins. They make up for it in volume. Same with companies like Sam's Club and Costco.

Anyone who sells anything that is considered a commodity deals with tiny margins like 7% or sometimes less. And they CAN survive.
--
Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17344010 Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:40:16 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17341609 anon : High end electronics has margins you cannot think about... When I'm talking high-end, I'm talking about McIntosh amps, Wilson speakers or Ronco projectors... these articles tend to have a pretty big margin (over 70%)...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17341609 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:58:14 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340540 jakerome : Not BS. There were probably 10 million people trying to get this deal. They were selling 1000 systems. You probably had a 1-in-10,000 chance of being able to buy one of the cheap XBoxes.

Honestly, the math is this simple: whether or not the site went down is irrelevant. They were selling a fixed number of systems. If the site responded perfectly, you had a 1-in-10,000 chance. If the site was sluggish or down for most people, you still had a 1-in-10,000 chance. Honestly, the math isn't even hard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340540 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:48:21 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340080 anon : You guys need to compare apples to apples... The profit in a dig. camera is nothing like a game system. I worked at Circuit City for three years. Their cost on the original XBOX1 was $304... they literally lost money on every one of them they sold. (Keep in mind they included the cost of shipping the item to the store in their cost)

It's the games and accessories that have a margin in them, and that's where you'll find difference in prices. It's annoying watching you guys argue over the profit in the console when there really isn't any. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340080 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:43:09 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340113 Devistater : Gotta love how people will make up things like uncles to try and prove thier "facts"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17340113 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:19:02 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339405 anon : High end electronics (ESPECIALLY new game consoles) have a very poor margin. The money is in the accessories and games. Why do you think a lot of stores are only selling "bundles"?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339405 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 11:51:57 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339348 anon :

said by Ubu :

My uncle works at Xbox and the employee discount is cost + 10% [of retail] and bought one for him and myself for about $130. The cost of it is $100. I don't think Amazon lost anything - just sold it for cost.

Microsoft employees do not get discounts on XBox 360 consoles. Either your uncle doesn't exist, or he is lying to you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339348 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 11:36:39 EDT Re: Tech Info http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339300 anon : The response goes out on the same port (80), not some other port that the server "has to open".

TCP connections are defined by source ip, source port, destination ip, destination port. If any single one of those changes, it's a different connection. For web sites, the "destination" is the server, and your pc is the "source". If the server changes the port it sends the response on, the "destination port" changes, making it a different connection, so your pc has no way of knowing it's the response for the request it sent to port 80.

The TCP stack on the server has a maximum number of connections it can queue up; these are connections that are attempting to connect, but the server software hasn't accepted yet. When this limit is reached, then your pc "cannot connect" and it seems like the website is down.
Having a server farm lets the website answer more connections faster, but they are ALL going to (and responses coming from) the same port (80).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339300 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 11:32:59 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339286 phattieg : Well, maybe if you would have "spoofed" the URL with HTTPS, it would have worked, like it did for me, but I didn't want to buy it, I just wanted to see how busy the site was...
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SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339286 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 11:20:35 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339139 anon : :uhh:groceries sit on an average of 2.8% markup per item.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339139 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:44:40 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339075 anon : as Devistater points out that's not true on computer products. Computer sales is a losing business in fact ever since the advent of the "cheap pc" type products in the late 90s. Profit in computer sales now comes from extended warrenty, service contracts and "upgrades" which is why salesmen in compusa push those so much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17339075 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:25:02 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338758 anon : My uncle works at Xbox and the employee discount is cost + 10% [of retail] and bought one for him and myself for about $130. The cost of it is $100. I don't think Amazon lost anything - just sold it for cost.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338758 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:08:06 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338378 anon :

No business in the world can stay in business on a markup of 7%.

Perhaps, but there are some that not only stay in business but thrive on markups of only 14-15% (corporate policy, see Costco).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338378 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:00:01 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338081 anon : Here's a concrete example that took me just a few seconds to find, if you click on the digital camera category. At the top you'll see an olympus SP-320 camera. That site claims the MSRP is $400. But if you google for olympus SP-320 MSRP, you'll see a number of sites such as this one:
»www.dcresource.com/reviews/camer···?cam=814
That show the MSRP is actually $300.
In fact here's a preview of the camera before it was released which shows the same MSRP of $300 (just in case you want to claim that its been lowered over time since the camera's release)
»www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/S···320A.HTM

$300 is NOT the MSRP price for the Olympus SP-320. It is the "Estimated Street Price" (ESP, sometimes alternately known as ERP for Estimated Retail Price):

»www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/11···769.html

Products very seldom sell for their MSRP prices. MSRP is simply a price far in excess of the real retail price, allowing retailers to claim they're selling at a "30% discount" (or whatever) rather than admitting they're selling at the exact same price everybody else is.

Another common one is MAP, or Minimum Advertised Price, where authorised dealers are barred from publishing a price below a certain figure in their advertisements or promotional materials, and usually they're also barred from revealing the price on a website before capture of a shopper's identity / adding the item to a shopping cart / whatever. This one exists solely to prop up prices from retailers who are overcharging for a product by preventing the competition from advertising their lower price.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338081 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 03:20:32 EDT Re: Tech Info http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338058 anon :

said by Harik :

said by knightmb

:

For those that are curious, the most ports you can have open is 65,535 on a connection, so if more than (minus everything else below 1024 that the OS will need for various reasons) that many people are clicking to begin with, the server, no matter how beefy it is simply can't get the request because of this hard limit.

Actually, the server listens on port 80 and can accept the hard limit, but has to open a response port to talk back to the client, and that's where the real limitation comes in. Even though the port is in use for a short period before closing, most OS's don't allow port re-use for 60 seconds (this can be tweaked on Unix/Linux, but I'm not sure about Windows). So in reality, one server can only have 64k concurrent connections. Of course, for huge sites like Amazon, this is handled by geographic load balancing, so even the load balancer clusters, are load balanced across the world.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338058 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 02:07:33 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338149 anon : Not true. You're average grocery store stays in business on a margin of 1-2%. Only thing is, a company like Stop and Shop does $40billion in sales a year. You do the math. It's all about volume.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17338149 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 01:41:31 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337970 Devistater : Sometimes wholesale is >50% off, but not in this specific case, and in fact not the case with any new consoles. And probably not the case with most console games either.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337970 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 00:38:14 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337903 anon : Wholesale on electronics is TOTALLY different than other consumer items. For example, an xbox 360 video game costs companies about $49. Those who sell it for less on promotion do so to get you in the store. My friend works at Fry's and he'll say the exact same thing.

Wholesale is more then 50% off suggested price, sometimes way more.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337903 Sat, 25 Nov 2006 00:25:00 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337836 rakslice : Look way up to the xbox.com links a few messages ago.

And here's a press release from launch time:

»www.microsoft.com/presspass/pres···ePR.mspx]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337836 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:58:37 EDT Re: Tech Info http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337757 anon :

said by knightmb

WOW. Just WOW. That's utterly and totally incorrect.

Your win32 machine _DOES_ have a hard limit of 64511 (or less) outgoing connections, because they each use one of the available ports. But on the server side, each of them connects to the same port (80). The server's "hard" limit is 281.4 trillion connections (32 bits IP, 16 bits port). That's per service port. Obviously no machine can support that, if there were even a way to get that many machines to connect at once.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337757 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:56:51 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337541 anon : Walmart lives on something like 3% profit margin. As a business owner I can tell you that the norm is around 15% - 20% markup.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337541 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:56:24 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337783 Devistater : The two links I provided to xbox.com (which is a MS owned official site) show the official microsoft pricing. It doesn't specifically say MSRP right next to it. They don't need to, its the official site with the official manufacture price.
Another example:
»www.xbox.com/en-US/press/2005/08···ails.htm
Or the same press release on microsoft.com (thanks rakslice)
»www.microsoft.com/presspass/pres···ePR.mspx
The official microsoft press release about pricing for xbox on launch. Notice how they announce the price of $299 for the core? Why would MS announce any other price than the MSRP?

I think its time you show me somewhere on the official microsoft site (xbox.com or microsoft.com) where they mention a $599 price for the core (MSRP or otherwise, I won't hold you to finding the specific term MSRP). That would prove I was wrong.

I notice you didn't respond when I pointed out concrete example of your site inflating MSRP numbers, or indications that site was a price inflation scam site that suckers buy from because they think they are getting a better deal when they aren't. Perhaps I'll find some additional examples of that.

The same site shows that the nintendo wii MSRP is $999. This is complete and utter nonsense (even WITH a game. A game isn't going to change the MSRP to 4 times normal).
»www.megagoods.com/product_catalo···tem=4294
100% proof:
»www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?art···c0b&page
nintendo's official press release
"MSRP $249.99"
Contrast that to MS's press release. They are both announcing initial launch pricing points. Both are prices that stores adhere to very well (likely because of a very small margin). MS didn't mention the term MSRP in thier press release, although nintendo DID SPECIFICALLY USE THAT TERM.
So lets try a google for wii MSRP $249.99, and there's 25,000+ hits.
Now lets try googling for wii MSRP $999.99
Only 400 hits interesting. Now looking at a few of those hits, what do you know. A bunch of them are ebay or similar auctions trying to convince people to pay more as if they are offering a better deal than they actually are (trying to scam people by showing inflated false MSRP)
In fact here's a funny example where they copied, word for word, the exact page from your megagoods site:
»auctions.yahoo.com/i:NINTENDO%20···17427133
They are trying to get $700 for a wii! LOL!
Here's a similar ebay example:
»item.express.ebay.com/__Video-Ga···ressItem
Same exact copy/paste and wii for $825 !

Just give it up, admit that the site you poorly choose to give evidence to your argument is trying to scam and falsly inflate MSRP to sell items at a higher price, that our differances are ones of degree, not kind. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337783 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:45:54 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337643 anon : I used to work for a video game retailer 4 or 5 years ago. I can tell you the $280 for a $300 system sounds right. We used to make $5 - $10 for every N64 or Playstation sold. The biggest way we'd make money was through selling large quanities of games. Even the markup on those was only about 25%. I'm sure Amazon gets them in bulk as a wholeseller cheaper than a small retailer, but it wouldn't be much of a difference.

Also, video game console companies are very strict with their pricing. I am not sure of the details, but if a store is caught selling a system more than a few pennies below the given price, dealers will no longer sell to them. I am sure Amazon and Microsoft had some deal in making this happen.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337643 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 23:26:40 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337376 batterup :

said by Devistater

:

And finally, if the official microsoft xbox site wasn't a good enough source for you, try googling for xbox core $299 MSRP and xbox core $599 MSRP.

I must be missing something. Post the link again to the *official Microsoft* site that shows the MSRP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337376 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 22:22:51 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337076 Devistater : Go back and read my post. Despite you posting AFTER my extensive edit, you didn't read it.

I got my numbers from the official microsoft site.

And yes, not only did I look at your link, I provided an additional concrete example of them inflating actual MSRP numbers (a digital camera).

Also, for your information there are TONS of products that sell for MSRP, especially right when they launch. One quick example, graphics cards. They quite often sell at MSRP when a new generation is released.

Most B&M stores sell a huge number of items in thier store for MSRP unless they are on sale that week.

Since I provided a concrete example of your site inflating an MSRP (the digital camera), I challange you to provide an example where that megagoods site has the actual verifiable non inflated MSRP on one of thier items.

Its a commonly known scam for sites like that (who are trying to sell products at a higher price that you can get almost anywhere else) to inflate their MSRP prices above what they actually are. Heck, if you google for xbox core MSRP, one of the first hits is a guide about that scam lol.

Oh also, many of their items are refurbished or not new, thats hardly wholesale dropshipper practices!

And finally, if the official microsoft xbox site wasn't a good enough source for you, try googling for xbox core $299 MSRP and xbox core $599 MSRP.
You get 10,000+ hits for the former and only about 600 hits for the latter. Doesn't prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, but its suggestive.

Look, I can agree with your point that most places can sell many items far below MSRP. Theres no question. There's also no question that the wholesale is below the MSRP, sometimes far below even the actual price you can buy it at. My disagreement is one of degree, not kind in general. Unfortunately, we aren't talking in general, we are talking about a particular item, the xbox 360 core system. An item that does NOT have an MSRP of $599.

I provided an example of the site you linked where they were inflating actual MSRP. I showed you the official microsoft site where they show the price of $299. Now I think you should show me somewhere on the official microsoft site where they mention a $599 price for the core (MSRP or otherwise).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337076 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:15:28 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337058 batterup :

said by Devistater

:

Oh come on, now you are getting ridiculous.

The MSRP of the core system is $300 and everyone is selling it for that price. That particular site is inflating actual MSRP figures.

You should not go name calling if you don't know what the MSRP means. Very few items sell at MSRP, Rolex watches from an authorized dealer being one exception.

Do you have a link for a MSRP of 300? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17337058 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:11:58 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336982 Devistater : Oh come on, now you are getting ridiculous.

»www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xb···esystem/
$299 for the core
Being as MS is the manufacture, I imagine they would show the MSRP on thier site.
$399 for the premium
»www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xb···rosystem

At the very least, if your pie in the sky $600 was true EVER of the core MSRP, it would have been that price at launch. And it never was. The core launched at $300.

That site you are listing which claims to be a wholesale dropshipper, the cost of the core xbox 360 is $314 + shipping. Which is higher than every single other major store online OR B&M. Heck you can walk into best buy and get the core for $300. They definately are NOT wholesalers, or if they are they are ripping people off.
Your random googling of a site to try and support your point kinda turned up a poor example there.
The MSRP of the core system is $300 and everyone is selling it for that price. That particular site is inflating actual MSRP figures.

Here's a concrete example that took me just a few seconds to find, if you click on the digital camera category. At the top you'll see an olympus SP-320 camera. That site claims the MSRP is $400. But if you google for olympus SP-320 MSRP, you'll see a number of sites such as this one:
»www.dcresource.com/reviews/camer···?cam=814
That show the MSRP is actually $300.
In fact here's a preview of the camera before it was released which shows the same MSRP of $300 (just in case you want to claim that its been lowered over time since the camera's release)
»www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/S···320A.HTM

Oh also, did you take a look at the computer category of that site? Hardly any selection at all. They are definately NOT a wholesaler. And so far the products I've checked have all had inflated false MSRP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336982 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 21:00:21 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336766 batterup :

said by Devistater

:

(I'm not sure where you get $550 price for premium anyway, thats close to what the PS3 is, and I'm pretty sure the xbox 360 premium is closer to $400).

The $550 is *The Manufactures Suggested Retail Price*. If you watch The Price is Right that is the price they use. $299.99 is the price Amazon sells it for.

Edit: XBOX 360
Xbox 360 Core Console Video Game System
Model: xboxcore360
MSRP: $599.99
»www.megagoods.com/product_catalo···ateg=162
That site lists the MSRP, a business would get a minimum 50% discount wholesale. So Amazon MUST get more then 50%.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336766 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 20:16:42 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336692 Devistater : Except this entire thread, the amazon deal, and the console I was talking about was the core system. Heh, one of my replies you quoted even mentioned that the amazon price was $100 instead of $300.
$300 being the retail price of the core system.

(I'm not sure where you get $550 price for premium anyway, thats close to what the PS3 is, and I'm pretty sure the xbox 360 premium is closer to $400).

BTW, compusa this year has had a series of cost plus sales. Like cost +7% sale. If you managed to check out the prices in that sale, you would have seen they aren't really as low as you would expect. In fact a lot of the prices were higher than you see on special sales, because of a number of factors such as rebates, or the stores hoping that people buy other high margin items along with the items that the stores are losing money on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336692 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 20:01:04 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336478 batterup :

said by Devistater

:

And DEFINATELY not on xbox 360. Why do you think everyone sells it for $300? Because the wholesale price has got to be pretty close to that. My guess is $280.

No business in the world can stay in business on a markup of 7%.

Edit:Xbox 360 Premium System Console RRP: $549.99. So $300 would be a deep discount. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336478 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 19:26:48 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336135 Devistater : Not on most computer products you order online.

And DEFINATELY not on xbox 360. Why do you think everyone sells it for $300? Because the wholesale price has got to be pretty close to that. My guess is $280.
How many xbox 360 sales have you seen that put it much below $300? Usually there's something special involved. Like at compusa recently there was a sign for an xbox 360 for $99, but only if you bought a 2 year cell phone agreement. Which means they are kicking back that much to compusa when they sell that kinda package.
MS is already losing money on every one they sell, why would they want to lose more than they had to?
They lost about $4 billion on xbox1 even with all the game sales.

Where stores make the money is on small accessories, like belkin cables. Compusa marks them up an average of 800% to 1200%
I think its a similar situation with Monster Cables at circuit city.
Oh and extended warranties. Those are almost pure profit for stores. Thats why they can be so insistant on asking you about them. That and the employees who sell the most usually get raises more often.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17336135 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 18:26:11 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17335265 batterup :

said by Devistater

:

The deal would have cost amazon $200,000 if everything went correctly, 1,000 xbox 360s at $100 instead of $300 (I bet wholesale is probably $280 or so but I'll discount that)
Its ironic, I bet amazon lost more than the $200k just from being down for 10 mins.

Wholesale is more then 50% off suggested price, sometimes way more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17335265 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:20:20 EDT Re: Tech Info http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17334994 sporkme :

said by knightmb

:

That's the extreme case where you have at least that many inbound connections in one single instance. Which in the amazon case, that's exactly what happened.

So how long have you worked at Amazon?

You think they have one big webserver running the site? On one IP? Uh huh...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17334994 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:14:15 EDT Re: Tech Info http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17334692 knightmb : True, but the absolute limit for IPv4 is 65,535 (coded on 16 bits). That's why those DoS attacks are effective because it just blast request until the 65,535 limit is reached and basically the web server is "deaf" to new request until the others timeout and new ports are available to use. Sure the web server can handle more than that, but when you only have port numbers 1 through 65,535 to send a response back out through then you've reached the hard limit because you can't have a port number being shared for two different connections.
That's the extreme case where you have at least that many inbound connections in one single instance. Which in the amazon case, that's exactly what happened.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmissi···Protocol]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17334692 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 13:07:02 EDT Re: Tech Info http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17334539 koolman2 : All of the requests would have gone to the same port.
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huh?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17334539 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:37:46 EDT Tech Info http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17333603 knightmb : For those that are curious, the most ports you can have open is 65,535 on a connection, so if more than (minus everything else below 1024 that the OS will need for various reasons) that many people are clicking to begin with, the server, no matter how beefy it is simply can't get the request because of this hard limit. If they had a server farm, maybe it could higher over a redistributed load. But if that many people are clicking on the page, anyone else afterwards is shut out no matter what connection they have. So there is nothing they could do to handle more incoming connections than this unless they built a amazon2.com or amazon3.com to allow more connections to some other web servers over an extra NIC for example.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17333603 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 08:50:58 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17333377 NEP1611 : I think it is a complete crapshoot who wins and who loses. Effectively, it's like a raffle. I almost think your timing had to be impeccable, literally within a fraction of a second.

And keep in mind, most people who did not get the deal are going to be pissed off and cry sour grapes, which is normal.

Fear not, I wouldn't be surprised to see the price of the console drop again shortly after the holidays.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17333377 Fri, 24 Nov 2006 07:20:19 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330738 aztecnology :

said by Authority

said by ChrisAdan650

:

It was total bs! I refreshed the giveaway link @ 11:00 exactly and the page came up about 2-3 mins later only to find out that the item had not gone on sale yet.... refreshed again and it was sold out? Rrrriiiight....

I tried too... was getting my "1-click" setting cleaned up then *nothing*. It was probably all employees anyway.

Oh well, I already have one. ;)

I was e-waiting and was like :o when my page finally loaded. Btw, the 1 click option wouldn't have worked per the fine print...
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"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that always come in legions." John Callari .:|:. Say no to the IRS Yes to the Fair Tax]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330738 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:18:37 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330656 gc444 : I guess I would have felt better if I could have at least loaded the page somewhere close to 11:00 so it could have told me it was out of stock. But I could not load the page for about 8 minutes and I knew by then it was over. With as many people that knew about this I knew I had little chance at getting one, but perhaps they should look at other ways to sell this stuff so that more people will at least get a shot at it. Not being able to pull up the page means you have no chance, at least with the lottery you have just as good of a chance to win as everybody else. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330656 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:58:48 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330529 steelerboy26 : I was able to get it and it appeared to be loaded in my cart... then when I got to the next page... I received the "sold out" notice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330529 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:28:18 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330472 sat : I was e-waiting in line as well - the damn page went no XBOX love for me :(

See my before and after pictures...
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- Running Vista RTM :)
- Just bought a copy of Photoshop CS2!!! :)

10:58AM Pre-apocalypse
11:11AM Post-apocalypse

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330472 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:10:46 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330387 Nerdtalker : It was pretty ridiculous. A massive customer DDOS, by far. I was refreshing constantly, and pages slowed from 2 seconds per reload, to 7, to 30, to nothing at all in a period of five minutes up until it went live.

I'd love to see the looks on the people's faces in their NAC or whatever, as everything went to hell in a handbasket.

Pretty good idea, this certainly generated an angry flood-storm of people talking about it...
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"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn

I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB.

Amazon's servers were Xbox 360s (FRAG)

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330387 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:42:29 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330345 Authority :

said by Devistater

:

I hope you realize that 1 click ordering it would have forced an order at $300, not $100.

No, I didn't. As I said I have one and don't really want another... I just got caught up in the wondering if I could get through thing. ;)
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Economically, militarily, politically, and culturally irrelevant… Canada!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330345 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:34:14 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330304 Devistater : I hope you realize that 1 click ordering it would have forced an order at $300, not $100.

They had a page that described all this for days beforehand. You did read it didn't you?

The deal would have cost amazon $200,000 if everything went correctly, 1,000 xbox 360s at $100 instead of $300 (I bet wholesale is probably $280 or so but I'll discount that)
Its ironic, I bet amazon lost more than the $200k just from being down for 10 mins.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330304 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:28:24 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330301 gh4456 : It sounds similar to the night the Wii went on sale. I was up at 3am waiting for it and at 3am the site got really slow but no Wii. They didn't actually put it on until 12pm the next day. Boy were a lot of people pissed. I also read it was on for literally 3 seconds.

Crazy stuff...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330301 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:28:02 EDT Re: Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330285 Authority :

said by ChrisAdan650

I tried too... was getting my "1-click" setting cleaned up then *nothing*. It was probably all employees anyway.

Oh well, I already have one. ;)
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Economically, militarily, politically, and culturally irrelevant… Canada!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330285 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:25:39 EDT Total BS! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330276 ChrisAdan650 : It was total bs! I refreshed the giveaway link @ 11:00 exactly and the page came up about 2-3 mins later only to find out that the item had not gone on sale yet.... refreshed again and it was sold out? Rrrriiiight....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17330276 Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:24:41 EDT