Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17244624 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:51:20 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:51:20 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17258219 PGHammer : And like that is going to actually happen under the Democratic Party?

As a longtime registered Democrat, it merely means we have exchanged one set of masters (the board members of corporate America) for another (the union bosses of both corporate and governmental America). I'm expecting three things to happen *before* the current Bush's term expires in 2008:

1. A tax increase *will* get pushed through (that will impact a much greater number than merely the top five percent of income-earners) and it will be attached to a bill that the President dare not veto.

2. Governmental spending will increase by an even greater amount (and will be papered over with more borrowing).

3. More money will be *earmarked* for border security, but it will NOT be used for more Border Patrol officers, extending the tours of National Guardsmen patrolling said border, or even more fencing (visible or otherwise). Worse, it won't even be used to deport illegals we've already caught. And, most shameful of all, it will be the Republicans that get blamed for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17258219 Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:38:36 EDT Re: This trolls stupid post... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17257059 useradvocate : As a retired SWBC employee I agree. In the day we had an unparalleled support structure and cared about our customers and employees.

The company has changed, as all companies have. Pre 80's Health Care was affordable and headache free too. The MBA's took over business in the '80s and the greed is good factor became the norm.

It has been downhill since the "Personell Department" became "Human Resources". Remember, in these times humans are a resource to be used to fatten bonus checks and the bottom line. For the most part large companies are sweatshops, complete with Machevelian management. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17257059 Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:41:46 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252520 anon : Abortions: Safe,legal, and RARE.

Banning abortion wouldn't make them go away, only education can do that.

Personally I don't agree with abortions, but I'm willing to let them stay, because my wife is more important than an unborn child. If my wife was pregnant, unconscious, and the baby was a risk to her health--you bet I'm going to have it terminated.

As a society we have already determined that embryonic life is not as important as other human life. The simple fact remains that by and large, there are almost no cases of funerals being held for miscarriages (called natural abortions). What do we do with these dead embryos? We flush them down the toilet.

I'm neither a democrat nor republican, and I'm not too thrilled about pelosi, but am very enthralled about the message sent to Bush: Ride the conservative/liberal fence or else.

With republican presidents, you want a democratic congress, and vice versa, or else you end up with a ship that flies too far right or left (right, in the case of the last 6 years.) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252520 Sat, 11 Nov 2006 01:40:14 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252570 anon : A perfect government would be much like Norway or Sweden's. Take the good ideas from both socialism and capitalism, and mix.

Those are two countries who have higher standards of living than the U.S.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252570 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:25:27 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252992 anon : A protest vote always proceeds a landslide. The 1995 local government elections in Britain saw Labour make massive gains, in 1997 there was a landslide. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252992 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:32:18 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252431 anon : I'm fine with people owning guns--Franklin said it best, giving up freedom for security (security being lack of guns in this case) deserve neither. [technically you can use that quote in several ways]
That said, I am wholly against public being able to own assault weapons. Unless of course, you are a mercenary, military etc. The only thing you're going to hunt with one of those bad boys are other people... or if you have a 50 caliber rifle, a wild M1 Abrams that strayed too far from its herd.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252431 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:02:06 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252788 David :
said by komodo9mm :

Better for you to look at bigshot democrats like Barack Obama. I checked wikipedia for his record, and he is a fiscal conservative, social liberal, a good divide between the two. His primary goal is to reconcile differences between dem and rep and would actually get my vote over Hillary. Unless Mccain runs, I like anyone who will roll up sleeves and start getting rid of the rotten apples in congress.
You should hear some of his podcasts, holy shit, that dude is pissed at congress and all sorts. I will put it this way, on one speech if he would have just slipped and call them "F__n morons" he just about damn near pretty much hit the statement on the head. You listen to that speech and how he talks about it and you just wait for the "Just say fuckin morons will ya."

From the few I heard he gets rather upset about some things in congress that just happens. You actually hear and feel his frustration.

he gets rather angry about some things.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252788 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:53:59 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252547 anon : Better for you to look at bigshot democrats like Barack Obama. I checked wikipedia for his record, and he is a fiscal conservative, social liberal, a good divide between the two. His primary goal is to reconcile differences between dem and rep and would actually get my vote over Hillary. Unless Mccain runs, I like anyone who will roll up sleeves and start getting rid of the rotten apples in congress. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252547 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:18:23 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252375 anon :

High taxes are bad news whether your gross income is $12,000 per year or $1.2 million per year.

How? High taxes to that 1.2 million means that it goes to someone who makes 1200, and that small chunk of change means more to that 1200 person than the 1.2million. The person made that 1.2million because they live in this country, and those who get the most benefit should be forced to share, end of story. Taxes are the rent you pay for living in the country you live in. If you make more you SHOULD pay more. Your personal benefit is still higher than anyone else's. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17252375 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:00:34 EDT Re: This trolls stupid post... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17250304 anon : ross

join:2000-08-16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

edit: Thursday November 9th, @01:09PM

reply to dnabdaorb
Re: This trolls stupid post...

said by dnabdaorb :

so what

Consider the source:

dnabdaorb(anon)
@sbc.com

another f**king teletroll, don't we have enough Telco cheerleaders already registered here..?
to forum · » · · 2006-11-09 13:07:09 ·

I am a retired telco and I can tell you FOR SURE that before 1984 service was much better.
Telco's use to pride themselves on their service- there were local not regional service centers. Local centers had ring down lines to the central office so when you had a trouble it was fixed fast- now you go to a regional center where it goes thru several layers of clerks before it get to a tester then several more layers before it get to a field tech by which time the the original trouble is a rumor.
Company values were service first, now it is stock price ,stock price, stock price then service- and yes before 1984 telco (read ATT) was into new technology- you might remember where the transistor came from.
The US phone system was the best in the world (may still be?) the 1984 split was only so a bunch of congressmen could get rich with MCI.

rant,rant
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17250304 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:43:31 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17249810 guitarzan :
said by KoolMoe See Profile :

For example, Heath Shuler, new Jr. Rep. to the House and former football 'star'. He's a Democrat. But, what's this?, he's opposed to abortion and gay marriage and he is pro gun rights! How can that be? He must be ultra-left since he was just elected!
Maybe, maybe one out of how many?

Have you ever heard of a wolf in sheep's clothing? As soon as the time is right, those woolly pelts will be discarded.

Real pro-gun democrats? that's one of the rarest animals in North America. I believe that their on the endangered species list
Much like finding a half-pregnant man in half a hole!

Those conservative Dems allowed the dummocrap leadership to step in and take control. The left leaning looney liberals like Pelosi, Kennedy, Rangel, and on and on are now at the helm. Conservative Dems will be squashed if they try and do anything but toe the party line.

Election Impact on Second Amendment Rights

What impact, if any, will the transformational 2006 Congressional Election have on Second Amendment rights?

While election 2006 may have been a referendum on many things (the President, war in Iraq, Jack Abramoff, Mark Foley for example), it does not translate into greater support for gun control at the grass roots level.

If anything, gun control was notable as a non-issue in this election.
In compiling the GOA rating, researchers could hardly find a
congressional candidate with any stated position on gun control on campaign websites.

That's not to say many of the newly elected will not support the anti-gun agenda; just that they recognize open support for gun control will cost them at the polls.

Unlike the newly elected members, however, the Democrat Congressional leadership is completely beholden to the far left anti-gun extreme of its party.

House Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi (F-rated by GOA) is a charter member of the most extreme wing of the party she now leads. As the person who controls what bills come to the floor, Pelosi will be unable to say "No" to the appeals for more gun control by the likes of Sarah Brady and her congressional allies.

The Speaker's strongest House ally in the push for more gun control is long-time Democrat anti-gun activist John Conyers, the likely Chairman of the Judiciary Committee.

Almost all bills related to the Second Amendment will pass through Conyers' committee. The new Chairman, an extremist who advocates a total handgun ban, will control the schedule of the committee as well as which bills come up for committee vote.

The situation in the Senate may be worse (pending the outcome of the Virginia senate race). Should Democrat Jim Webb hang on to win, the expected new Senate Majority will be F-rated Harry Reid (NV) and the probable incoming Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee would be GOA F-rated Pat Leahy of Vermont

From there it really goes downhill.

The rest of the Democrats currently on the committee make up the Who's Who of the anti-gun movement:

* Ted Kennedy (MA), the mouthpiece for Sarah Brady in the Senate.

* Joe Biden (DE), who chaired the Judiciary Committee when the Brady bill passed in 1993, and who said at that time, famously, "The public and the Congress have spoken unequivocally, and I don't care what a minority wants;"

* Herb Kohl (WI), author of the "Gun Free Zones Ban;"

* Dianne Feinstein (CA), author of the so-called "Assault Weapons" ban.

* Russ Feingold (WI), democrat lead sponsor of so-called campaign finance reform.

* Charlie Schumer (NY), lead sponsor of the 1993 Brady law; and

* Dick Durbin (IL), one of the most outspoken gun control zealots in the senate.

Seriously, which ones are the conservative Dem's???

Gun owners should look twice at the above list. Most or all of these members will remain on the Judiciary Committee when the new Congress convenes in January, and will help shape American gun laws for at least the next two years. It's why the Dem's have been out of power from 1994 to now. And the reason they're back in power now isn't because they've inspired the nation to follow them with their wonderful message of unity & positivity. It's because the Republicans pissed their constituents off by not doing what they were elected to do.

But its part of their mantra, abortions for all, raise taxes, install programs that don't work, government approved religion, drive businesses out, no guns for all(except them).

I know the appropriate response is to be pissed -not at the Dems for doing what we knew they would try to do - but at the Republicans for going to Washington & jumping into their 'moderate-to-liberal suits' once they got there

Our elected officials FORGOT why we sent them there...and they got trounced for it. Hopefully...probably...they will learn from the severe pain that is about to befall ALL of us, and will do what it takes -for the next two years- to stage a come-back & keep the Hilda-beast from stealing...er...getting 'elected' to the White house in '08.

If one REALLY wants to influence the freedom of firearms in this country, REGISTER Democratic and vote for pro-2nd Amendment candidates in the primaries. Vote GOP in the mains if you want, but you can help remove the anti-gun candidates before they can run against Republicans.

BTW:Some of you are naive. The UN's position is that civilian gun owner ship violates human rights and that you have no human right to self defense. The U.N. wants to be the ruling body of the entire world. Bush and the republicans being demonized over Iraq was to insure the Democrats get control and Hilda-beast wins in 2008 which will set up the U.S. to adopt a UN small arms ban and slowly start fallowing more and more U.N regs. Even if Hilda-beast is not elected and we refused to adopt the small arms ban the UN would call it a human rights violation and impose sections against us until we accepted the gun ban. Once the UN controls all civilian firearms though out the world it will lead to the abolishment of national governments in favor of the U.N controlled global government. All of this will happen under the guise of peace for humanity.

The sad thing is that the people actually think they are saving themselves form tyranny by voting democrat.

Sheep are always led to the slaughter so easily. And the apocalypse is almost upon us.

I expect to see unemployment rates soar and the economy going into a radical dive. I'm selling off my stock that has been doing well because I expect it to start dropping.

--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17249810 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 03:42:36 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17249368 guitarzan : Pelosi's Socialist Ties
Newsmax,com ^ | November 13, 2002 | Carl Limbacher?

Posted on 11/13/2002 12:33:46 PM PST by OldCorps

Something the leftist media establishment doesn't want you to know: San Francisco Democrat Nancy Pelosi's ties to socialism.

Writing in the Washington Times, Balint Vazsonyi notes that in a recent New York Times article about the soon-to-be House leader, there was not "a single mention of her executive position in the Progressive Caucus, and the latter's ties to the Socialist International."

"Question: If an international organization existed to carry the torch for Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini, and if a person running for leader had past or present ties to such an organization, what are the chances the New York Times would find it irrelevant to the matter at hand?" asks Vazsonyi.

"None. Zero. Nada.

"Double standards: Do you remember the Austrian nationalist Joerg Haider? He had no such affiliation. Yet the mere possibility that he might harbor sympathies for National Socialist ideas sufficed to make him, and the country in which he holds office, an international pariah.

"The Socialist International carries the torch for Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, V.I. Lenin, Leon Trotsky, and Josef Stalin. Pay no attention to the desperate attempts by socialists to distance themselves from Stalin. For our purposes, it suffices to observe that every single tenet of the Socialist International is the exact opposite of the principles upon which America was founded, and which define the U.S. Constitution.

"For our purposes, it suffices also to observe that members of the U.S. Congress are required to furnish an oath whereby they will preserve, protect, and defend said Constitution.

"DSA/USA, the 'Democratic Socialists of America' are the U.S. arm of the Socialist International. They share the symbol of the fist holding the rose, and they share the tasks to be accomplished — in our case, an altogether different America.

"Some time ago — the date is missing from the descriptions — 58 members of the U.S. House of Representatives formed a subdivision of the Democratic Socialists of America and called it the Progressive Caucus. Their statement of purpose, as well as their membership list, formed an integral part of the dsausa Web site (www.dsausa.org). The membership list appeared on the screen with the continuous background of the fist holding the rose, should anyone have missed the connection with the Socialist International."

After the Washington Times in November 1998 blew the whistle on the so-called "Progressive" Caucus, "action was taken to hide the true nature of the organization, and its membership list was eventually taken off the dsausa Web site."

Vazsonyi continues: "Rep. Nancy Pelosi has long been, and is now, a member of the executive committee of the Progressive Caucus. Her election as leader would firmly establish the link between the Democratic Caucus of the U.S. House of Representatives and the Socialist International.

"The U.S. Constitution places no restrictions on political creeds. There is no earthly reason why socialists could not be elected to Congress if the people so choose. There is a question of honesty, though. Candidates for office ought to put their cards on the table."

»www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/788312/posts

It's important for them to elect her as their leader.

Yes. We need Comrade Pelosi right where the US can see her.

what a bunch of cumbaya singing, whirled peas lovin liberals! Gag me. Dan, what's the frequency, lol!

in a recent New York Times article about the soon-to-be House minority leader, there was not "a single mention of her executive position in the Progressive Caucus, and the latter's ties to the Socialist International."

Why would the NYT change now? In the '30's an NYT reporter named Walter Duranty, a member of the Communist Party USA, sent dispatches from Russia to the NYT that won him the Pulitzer Prize. Duranty doesn't mention that Stalin is killing Ukrainians by starvation and giving Hitler a lesson in mass murder. No, Duranty paints a "Rosey" picture of Stalins 5 year plan to "Collectivise" the the rich farm land of Russia's Eastern regions.

If the New York Times isn't going to report accurately the fertilization of the Kulaks farms with the flesh of their murdered bodies, why should the Times even mention Pelosi?

It amazes me that they would elect such a shrill polarizer. It just shows how out of touch they are with everyone except their own hardcore base.

Many in the media will love her though. First woman and all that usual crap.

It's too bad Gary Condit is gone. Judging by the picture he and Pelosi would have had quite a lot in common. (black leather, whips, stc.)

We need to make sure her socialist ties are very well known.

This is really no surprise. The RAT party has always been manipulated by the socialists. Most folk don't know this.

They don't REALLY know that these guys are communists/socialists with an agenda to destroy the Constitution and change our form of government. I don't understand why conservative pundits don't harp all over this to expose the creeps.

Any sub-section of Congress that includes Baghdad Jim McDermott, Clinton apologist Conyer, and terrorist mouthpiece Cynthia McKinney is a den of evil.

Pelosi = neo-Stalinist.

Who woulda thunk...?

If the Democrats chose Pelosi then they are truly crazy! Pelosi as a choice means that the cRats get one step closer to becoming like the Whigs or the Anti-Mason Political Parties .....extinct!

Even for a cRat Pelosi is extreme! She represents a region (San Francisco) that (even by Liberal standards) is waaaaaay off the beaten path. And yet they expect her to help their party!

LOL ....i guess the cRats are becoming less like rats and more like Lemmings! Heading off to their ultimate doom in spectacular fashion ....like lemmings to a cliff. After all, chosing Pelosi is tantamount to suicide for the party. She has no knack for deception, no way to obfuscate, she lacks a facade of honesty, and her grasp of verbal gymnastics is atrophied (in essence she lacks the 'attributes' the make a slick cRat). She is just a bad thing waiting to happen for the cRats!

If i were a cRat i would hope that they chose Ford jr from Tn. After all that kid has Clintonesque appeal (Bill not Hillary) and would surely dupe a lot of voters when necessary. He seems well versed in facades and driving points home (even when it is just lip service) as could be seen in his TV interviews. And he is by far more appealing than Pelosi could ever hope to be.

However since i am not a cRat Pelosi is fine with me since by chosing her the cRats will be ensuring their hastened extinction!

What?????? A demorat tied to the socialists???? Oh my God. I am in shock. I can't continue the rest of the day functioning. This news is too overwhelming...

Looks like ol' "Pinky" Pelosi has earned her nickname! BTW, great photo of "Pinky" in her pinko jacket!

Many people around here are familiar with the American Conservative Union. They rank congressmen according to how they vote, 0 to 100, the higher, the better (from the standpoint of conservatives).

The average lifetime ranking off all congressmen is about 51. The average republican is 85. The average democrat is around 15. Al Gore, when he was, in the senate was probably around 12.

Nancy Pelosi is a 2.

It's too damn bad that the first women ever to run as house minority leader has her pantyhose all tied up in gloomy elitist socialism.

Is she going to be the socialist stepping stone for Mrs. Clinton's bid for first female president?

While many of us were aware of these connections to the DSA, a lot of the newer Freepers may not be, since the names of the members of the Progressive Caucus were removed from the list of members of the DSA on the official web site, along with the explanation of how the Progressive Caucus came into existence and the reason for the use of the term, "progressive".

Am not exactly sure what the "Last Update" date of Jan. 15 1998 is referring to - the list itself or the webpage it was on.


Members of the Progressive Caucus

Representative (State-District) Address Phone, Fax Email Web Page
Rep Earl Hilliard (AL-07) 1314 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-2665, Fax: 202-226-0772
Rep Eni Faleomavaega (AS-AL) 2422 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-8577, Fax: 202-225-8757
Rep Ed Pastor (AZ-02) 2465 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-4065, Fax: 202-225-1655 edpastor@mail.house.gov »aspin.asu.edu/~pctp/pastor/pastor.html
Rep Lynn C Woolsey (CA-06) 439 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515-0529 Phone: 202-225-5161, Fax: 202-225-5163 woolsey@mail.house.gov »www.house.gov/woolsey/
Rep George Miller (CA-07) 2205 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-2095, Fax: 202-225-5609 gmiller@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/georgemiller/
Rep Nancy Pelosi (CA-08) 2457 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-4965, Fax: 202-225-8259 sfnancy@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/pelosi/
Rep Fortney "Pete" Stark (CA-13) 239 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5065, Fax: 202-226-3805 petemail@hr.house.gov
Rep Henry A. Waxman (CA-29) 2204 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-3976, Fax: 202-225-4099 »www.house.gov/waxman/
Rep Xavier Becerra (CA-30) 1119 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515-0530 Phone: 202-225-6235, Fax: 202-225-2202
Rep Julian C. Dixon (CA-32) 2252 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515-0532 Phone: 202-225-7084, Fax: 202-225-4091
Rep Esteban Edward Torres (CA-34) 2269 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515-0534 Phone: 202-225-5256, Fax: 202-225-9711 arcoiris@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/torres/
Rep Maxine Waters (CA-35) 2344 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-2201, Fax: 202-225-7854
Rep George E. Brown (CA-42) 2300 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-6161, Fax: 202-225-8671 talk2geb@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/georgebrown/
Rep Bob Filner (CA-50) 330 Cannon House Office Building , Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-3461, Fax: 202-226-4169
Rep Diane DeGette (CO-01) 1404 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-4431, Fax: 202-225-5657
Rep Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC-AL) 1424 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-8050, Fax: 202-225-3002 »www.house.gov/norton/
Rep Corrine Brown (FL-03) 1610 Longworth House Office Building , Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 225-0123, Fax: 202-225-2256
Rep Carrie P. Meek (FL-17) 401 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515-0917 Phone: 202-225-4506, Fax: 202-226-0777 »www.house.gov/meek/
Rep Alcee L. Hastings (FL-23) 1039 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-1313, Fax: 202-226-0690 hastings@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/alceehastings/
Rep Cynthia A. McKinney (GA-04) 124 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-1605, Fax: 202-226-0691 »www.house.gov/mckinney/
Rep John Lewis (GA-05) 229 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515-1005 Phone: 202-225-3801, Fax: 202-225-0351
Rep Neil Abercrombie (HI-01) 1233 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-2726, Fax: 202-225-4580 neil@abercrombie.house.gov »www.house.gov/abercrombie/
Rep Patsy Mink (HI-02) 2135 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515-0917 Phone: 202-225-4906, Fax: 202-225-4987
Rep Jesse Jackson (IL-02) 313 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-0773, Fax: 202-225-0899
Rep Luis Gutierrez (IL-04) 408 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-8203, Fax: 202-225-7810 luisg@mail.house.gov
Rep Danny Davis (IL-07) 1218 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5006, Fax: 202-225-5641
Rep Lane Evans (IL-17) 2335 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5905, Fax: 202-225-5396
Rep Julia Carson (IN-10) 1541 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-4011, Fax: 202-226-4093 jcarson@indy.net
Rep John Olver (MA-01) 1027 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5335, Fax: 202-226-1224 olver@mail.house.gov
Rep Jim McGovern (MA-03) 512 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5759, Fax: 202-225-6101 james.mcgovern@mail.house.gov
Rep Barney Frank (MA-04) 2210 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5931, Fax: 202-225-0182 »www.house.gov/frank/
Rep John Tierney (MA-06) 120 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-8020, Fax: 202-225-5915
Rep David Bonior (MI-10) 2207 Rayburn House Office Building , Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-2106, Fax: 202-226-1169
Rep John Conyers (MI-14) 2426 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5126, Fax: 202-225-0072 jconyers@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/conyers/
Rep Bennie G. Thompson (MS-02) 1408 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5876, Fax: 202-225-5898 ms2nd@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/thompson/
Rep Melvin L. Watt (NC-12) 1230 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-1510, Fax: 202-225-1512 melmail@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/watt/
Rep Donald Payne (NJ-10) 2244 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-3436, Fax: 202-225-4160
Rep Jerrold Nadler (NY-08) 2448 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-5635, Fax: 202-225-6923 nadler@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/nadler/
Rep Major Owens (NY-11) 2305 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-6231, Fax: 202-226-0112
Rep Nydia M. Velazquez (NY-12) 1221 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-2361, Fax: 202-226-0327 »www.house.gov/velazquez/
Rep Charles Rangel (NY-15) 2354 Rayburn House Office Building , Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-4365, Fax: 202-225-0816 »www.house.gov/serrano/
Rep Maurice Hinchey (NY-26) 2431 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-6335, Fax: 202-226-0774 hinchey@mail.house.gov
Rep John LaFalce (NY-29) 2310 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-3231, Fax: 202-225-8693
Rep Marcy Kaptur (OH-09) 2311 Rayburn House Office Building , Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-4146, Fax: 202-225-7711
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Rep Sherrod Brown (OH-13) 328 Cannon House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 Phone: 202-225-3401, Fax: 202-225-2266 sherrod@hr.house.gov »www.house.gov/sherrodbrown/
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Pelosi leader of 'Progressive Caucus'
Dems' top House official part of powerful, socialist-linked bloc
--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17249368 Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:38:38 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17249082 guitarzan :
said by pabster See Profile :

gun laws tighten,
Happy Dancing at the Brady Center

Well folks, they started before the votes were even completely counted.....and so it begins...

Taken fron the BradyCenter.org webpage....

A National Momentum Shift: Supporters Of Common-Sense Gun Laws Win Races From Coast To Coast

Washington, DC (11/8/2006) — In election races across the country yesterday, candidates who support strengthening America's gun laws to fight gun violence defeated candidates backed by the gun lobby in U.S. Senate, U.S. House, gubernatorial and other statewide races and a number of high-profile state legislative races. The results should have a profound impact on the ability to fight illegal gun trafficking and gun violence in the coming years.
--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17249082 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:36:39 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248852 guitarzan :
said by karlmarx See Profile :

"wonder how long it will take the sheeple to realize they've been bamboozled."
Won't take long at all.

Son of Florida Sen. Bill Nelson Charged With Police Battery

Report: Son of Florida Sen. Bill Nelson Charged With Police Battery
Wednesday, November 08, 2006

By Catherine Donaldson-Evans

Only hours after Florida Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson won re-election against opponent Katherine Harris, his 30-year-old son was arrested and charged with battery on a law enforcement officer and 2 other felonies, The Miami Herald reported.

Orlando police said they were called to the scene of a fight that reportedly involved 20 people. When they arrived at 2:45 a.m., they found Charles William Nelson, apparently drunk, sparring with a man and attempting to drag an unconscious woman to a hotel, according to the Herald.

Charles Nelson tried to take the woman, Kimberly Baxter, away to a hotel when he heard that paramedics were on their way to help her.

Police told Nelson to put Baxter down, the newspaper reported, but instead he dropped her on the ground and refused to leave. He shouted at and pushed one of the officers, according to the Herald.

Charles Nelson also resisted arrest, police told the Herald. He was handcuffed, doused with pepper spray and charged with battery of a law enforcement officer, disorderly intoxication and resisting arrest without violence, according to the newspaper.

»www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,228164,00.html

Sounds very "Kennedy" like to me, or is that the way a typical democrat behaves?

However, I'm sure it was nothing but an unfortunate case of accidentally mixing booze with meds. I know that whenever I mix booze and meds, my usual reaction is to drive my car into a barrier after refusing to stop for police....or sometimes I try to drag women into hotel rooms, also after attempting to evade police. Is it just me??

Let me guess...."You must not know who my dad is, take your filthy hands of me pig!"

"You'll know them by their fruit... "

Maybe he was draggin her to the pool to go for a "swim". Yeah that's the ticket !
--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248852 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:53:31 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248760 guitarzan :
said by pabster See Profile :

"And the so called 'sheeple' raised their voices, and said 'enough with the republicans, let's get our country BACK on track'"

Until their taxes go up, gun laws tighten, and millions of taxpayer dollars are wasted on phoney "investigations"...

Trust me, it won't be that long before the sheeple wake up. I give it less than 6 months.
Pabster check this out, its what normal people will have to deal with.

The Washington Times

A look at Pelosi's voting record

EDITORIAL

November 3, 2006

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi would bring to the office a level of left-wing liberalism that will be unprecedented. In the National Journal's 2005 ideological ratings, which were based on scores of votes, Mrs. Pelosi was ranked more liberal than 91 percent of her House colleagues on economic issues, 96 percent on social matters and 82 percent on foreign-policy issues. Here are her relative rankings (economic, social, foreign) for 2004 (93, 88, 81), 2003 (92, 89, 70), 2002 (88, 84, 90) and 2001 (94, 83, 93).

Until she received a 95 percent liberal rating in 2005 from the Americans for Democratic Action (the nation's pre-eminent liberal organization), Mrs. Pelosi had racked up five consecutive years (2000-04) of 100 percent ratings. Her lifetime ADA rating is 96 percent. Last year, the American Conservative Union gave her a 0 rating. Her lifetime ACU rating is 3 percent.

Typical for her 20-year House career, Mrs. Pelosi received a 100 percent rating from NARAL Pro-Choice America last year and a 0 rating from the National Right to Life Committee. A Roman Catholic who has repeatedly voted to uphold partial-birth abortion, who has voted against parental notification when minor children seek abortion and who has shown no concern for the rights of the innocent unborn, Mrs. Pelosi has consistently opposed the death penalty.

Over the years, Mrs. Pelosi has consistently voted against welfare reform, including the 1996 bill signed by President Clinton and its re-authorization. In 1998, she opposed a constitutional amendment to permit school prayer in the classroom. In 1999, she opposed allowing state and local governments to display the Ten Commandments on public property, including schools. She has voted against education IRAs. In 2003, she opposed a $10 million program for school vouchers in the District of Columbia. That same year she voted against the 10-year $400 billion Medicare prescription-drug bill because she preferred one that was twice as expensive. Mrs. Pelosi has repeatedly voted for tax increases and opposed tax cuts, even the 2001 bill that doubled the child tax credit to $1,000, among other cuts.

As the United States has become increasingly dependent on foreign sources for oil, Mrs. Pelosi has always opposed drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. In recent years, she has become protectionist -- leading the opposition in 2000 against then-President Clinton's successful effort to establish permanent normal trade relations with China. She also opposed giving Mr. Clinton and Mr. Bush trade-promotion authority; and in 2005 she voted against the Central American Free Trade Agreement. In 2004, she voted to end Radio Marti broadcasts to Cuba. She voted to reduce funds for the B-2 intercontinental bomber, which performed superbly in the 1999 Kosovo War, in 2001 in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Mrs. Pelosi has repeatedly opposed anti-missile defense, even as a nuclear-armed North Korea has tested ballistic missiles.

Submitted by Ann S.

»strangepolitics.com/content/item/120412.html
--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248760 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:38:07 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248688 KoolMoe : If you really think that all the Democrats who won new positions are 'ultra left', then you've really not been paying attention. Nice way to judge without bothering to learn anything about the situation...sounds just like a NeoConservative! ;-)

For example, Heath Shuler, new Jr. Rep. to the House and former football 'star'. He's a Democrat. But, what's this?, he's opposed to abortion and gay marriage and he is pro gun rights! How can that be? He must be ultra-left since he was just elected!

Look closely and I think you'll find many of the new Democrats are rather conservative. While I disagree with anti abortion and gay marriage arguments, I am pro-gun (generally). If the Democrats can strike the balance between fiscal conservatism and social care, it could be a great party.
Of course, that balance may be impossible to achieve! But it's far better than the purely anti-Americanism of the new Republican party.

I was disappointed in the Bush election, and re-election, but each time I gave him and his party the chance to Do Right. Both times, they blew it. Badly.
Give the new Congress the same chance. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Or not.
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248688 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:22:32 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248517 guitarzan :
said by dispatcher21 See Profile :

I'm with you pabster but just to be safe, I will be going to Sportsmans Warehouse next week and purchasing an arsenal of weapons.
Good idea and i would like to add to that.

But what to do? What gesture could we gun owners in particular, and Second Amendment supporters in general, make that would smack these disgusting gun-controllers in the nose?

What if, on just one day of the year, every gun owner in the United States went out and bought a hundred rounds of ammunition?

Given that there are as many as seventy-five million gun owners in the United States, the net result would be that 7.5 billion rounds of ammunition would go into public circulation, in one day.

Now not every gun owner is going to do this. Heck, of the 75 million gun owners, only about 6% (4 million-odd) belong to a Second Amendment-supporting organization like Gun Owners of America, the Second Amendment Sisters, RKBA, and of course the NRA. Not everyone is going to get the word, either, especially as you will hear not a peep about this in the established gun media, let alone in the so-called “mainstream” media.

But what if just 15% of all gun owners bought themselves a hundred rounds of ammo on the same day? That would be over a billion rounds of ammunition going into circulation—and that’s what I’m aiming for.

Heck, gun owners have to buy ammo all the time—we’re just asking that they all buy it on the same day.

Most importantly, however, is what a billion rounds of ammo does for gun ownership in the United States: It sends a message to the local and international gun-grabbers that gun owners have considerable muscle.

If the country is awash in ammunition, it makes the prospect of punitive sales taxes a moot issue—no point in hoping that people will run out of ammunition when everyone has a huge supply of it.

So I’m making a personal appeal to all gun owners and Second Amendment supporters in the United States:

Please buy 100 rounds of your favorite ammunition on week of November 11-19, 2006.

Why this week? Well, the best thing about National Ammo Day/Week is that it’s just an ordinary week, a week before Thanksgiving week. There’s no conflict with any holiday or other event—it’s just an ordinary time of the year.

And the very best present I can think of would be a poke in the eye for all gun-grabbers, gun-fearing wussies and their media lickspittles. Just for one week, I’d like millions of ordinary, law-abiding people to stand up and make a defiant, and legal, gesture at the face of authority.

This is not being sponsored by anyone, and has no official anything. It’s just plain old popular defiance—and it’s perfectly legal, and requires no one to do anything out of the ordinary.

One hundred rounds. More if you can afford it.

November 11-19, 2006.

National Ammo Day/Week.

One billion rounds of ammunition into private hands, in one week.

It'd be easier to go to one of the "little guys" to get your share, though some people say that since Wal-Mart tracks ammo sales, it might make more of an impact if you get it there...

Let's send a message that us gun owners ain't going away!

REMEMBER - the week of NOV 11! If you have any purchases lined up for next week, please hold off if possible to help add it to the "statement!"

--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248517 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:57:45 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248448 guitarzan :
said by karlmarx See Profile :

. The election was in fact a national referendum on the failed bush regime policies. And the so called 'sheeple' raised their voices, and said 'enough with the republicans, let's get our country BACK on track'
It was no national referendum, more like a protest vote against Bush. It was not a rejection of Conservative values. Proof? Seven states banned same sex marriage. Same sex marriage is the breeding grounds for liberalism and voters rejected liberal values. ;)

It would be a mistake for the Democrats to believe that what happened at he polls was a mandate for their liberal agenda. It was a back-lash against the war and a vote of no-confidence for the President and nothing more. If they push their agenda now they will have their own back-lash to deal with.

Come to think about it, I almost hope they do try to push some ultra-liberal stuff in the next two years. It would serve to help assure a Republican victory in 2008. Sometimes we need to think long-term

--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17248448 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:45:27 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247923 Maxo :
said by cableties See Profile :

Wait! Am I in the right discussion?
These points are all fine and good, but need to be saved for the locals. In some area municipal broadband may be a good idea. For others it may not. I don't think the federal government should pass laws interfering. The states should be deciding on more things, but still with plenty of room for cities/counties/towns to do things the way they see fit.
If a local government is looking at building their own ISP then that's when the arguments you are proposing would be valid or invalid.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad

»maxolasersquad.com/

»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide

»myspace.com/mlsquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247923 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:25:24 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247730 Maxo :
said by pabster See Profile :

Until their taxes go up, gun laws tighten, and millions of taxpayer dollars are wasted on phoney "investigations"...

Trust me, it won't be that long before the sheeple wake up. I give it less than 6 months.
While we are digressing, ideals of small government, and fiscal responsibilities GWB has failed to be a conservative. It's pretty bad when a Republican follosw a Democrat and he creates bigger government, bigger government spending, and bigger government interfering with people's personal life than the Dem. It is the failure of GWB to maintain basic conservative values that gave the Democrats their recent gain.
As for waking up, the tide of who stays in party changes. Republicans had their day, Democrats are having their day (and will for a while) then the public will switch back and the cycle will continue.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad

»maxolasersquad.com/

»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide

»myspace.com/mlsquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247730 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:47:27 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247658 KrK : Ah, a post that stands as a shining example of all that is wrong with America today. Congratulations!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247658 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:33:57 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247346 insomniac84 : Why not? The hardest part and the most cost of installing highspeed broadband is laying the fiber in the ground to every house. Even if in a few years it is deemed to costly to upgrade muni hardware, the network is there and probably could easily be rented out to ISPs that can offer more services.
The biggest reason people don't have fiber is the cost, if the towns installed it themselves, they open the door to many options.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247346 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:44:07 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247293 dispatcher21 : I'm with you pabster but just to be safe, I will be going to Sportsmans Warehouse next week and purchasing an arsenal of weapons. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247293 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:35:25 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247285 lm5449 : :)So now we have replaced it with the ultra left scum. Just a few losses next time and you are out again. Do not be to cocky. After people see what the left does, down you will go.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247285 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:34:15 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247242 pabster : "And the so called 'sheeple' raised their voices, and said 'enough with the republicans, let's get our country BACK on track'"

Until their taxes go up, gun laws tighten, and millions of taxpayer dollars are wasted on phoney "investigations"...

Trust me, it won't be that long before the sheeple wake up. I give it less than 6 months.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247242 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:25:44 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247193 karlmarx : "wonder how long it will take the sheeple to realize they've been bamboozled."

Umm, they just realized it two days ago. You know, when they voted OUT the fat cat republican scum from BOTH the house AND the senate. The election was in fact a national referendum on the failed bush regime policies. And the so called 'sheeple' raised their voices, and said 'enough with the republicans, let's get our country BACK on track'
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247193 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:15:53 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247063 pabster : You, sir, are an idiot.

High taxes are bad news whether your gross income is $12,000 per year or $1.2 million per year.

The era of San Francisco liberal Democrat kookery is upon us. I just wonder how long it will take the sheeple to realize they've been bamboozled.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17247063 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:48:03 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246839 BF69 :
said by DaBavarian See Profile :

Followed by high taxes.
WRONG! I will put money on that 95% of the population will NOT see any tax increase. More like REDUCED taxes. The 5% that may get a tax increase. Well Bill Gates can afford it. I have no pity for them. One less vacation house. Too fricking bad.

Funny how some peole care more about the people that make substantially more than them( and those rich people don't give a rats behind about them ) than those less fortunate.

If you are in the bottom of that top 5% that means you make at least $175K a year which is 5 times what the average American makes. If you are worried about higher taxes make less money. Quit your job and go work for wal-mart. Otherwise STFU.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246839 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:09:50 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246837 cableties : Here's the problem you are overlooking:

I for one agree that the shift from public to private (ergo privatization) is bad in most ways (roads, healthcare, utilities...) but what happens when the municipality decides to privatize the deal years later?
Township and local governing officials move on or are voted out. Eventually, some sleazy-former-realtor will assume power and want to pocket funds to "buddy" that happens to run some tech firm that can "do a better job" than the current, fiscally bloated, red-tape, municipal nightmare (or whatever they will label it).
Your taxes will have been raised significantly higher than now, to compensate for the underpaid, upgrade-needed staff and hardware. (the subscription rates rise for protection, software and contracts...).
Add that to the already over-taxed base with school and property-re-assessments...
Then you will have a problem.
Wait! Am I in the right discussion?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246837 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:09:37 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246432 Michieru2 : If it's not worth the profits gained in a particular area, broadband deployment will never come from the private sector, so what is your option?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246432 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:03:35 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246341 KoolMoe : As I understand it, few - if any - muni ISPs are purely setup with tax monies. It's usually a bond issue, though if the ISP can't payoff the bonds in a set amount of time, taxpayers could be liable.
If that's true, it's not the same as public vs private schools and the associated tax situation - which was a good point regardless.
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246341 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:47:02 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246210 Maxo :
said by dklann See Profile :

The problem with public tax money is you really get no say in how it's spent. What if you don't want the ISP that you're being taxed for?
I don't believe that towns should build their own ISP or shouldn't. I do believe the option should be made available to them. Government corruption is a problem within and of itself.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246210 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:28:33 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246209 dklann : I can't believe what I'm reading - eveyone has a right including a company to make a profit and to maximize that profit, so long as they do it legally. If you privatize services for a profitable product the costs go down not up. If the government restricts how much money a company or person makes is that capitalism or free enterprise? I think not. But what would be good is if we made it such that we made it better for companies to operate in our country vs. outsourcing customer service to India and Pakistan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246209 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:28:25 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246172 dklann : I'm following the dialog and can see both sides of the issue. The problem with public tax money is you really get no say in how it's spent. What if you don't want the ISP that you're being taxed for? Sort of like schools - if you opt to send your kids to private school then good for you - but you still pay government school tax. The only way to solve this whole mess is to privatize and use competitive market forces and use a national sales tax vs. an income tax. If I want my garbage picked up then I should be able to pick my service provider rather than settle on the one who won the county contract or a have a government worker pick it up. It's a pipedream however - we can't take politicians out of the money we can only replace them with other politicians; we'll never take money out of politicians. If we can degregulate the phone and natural gas industry why can't we do so with others. In my opinion any program of regulation and private industry the government gets in tends to be worse after the fact (aviation, telecommunications, natural gas, etc...)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17246172 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:21:25 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245788 Maxo :
said by dispatcher21 See Profile :

Muni services are good as long as it is done correctly otherwise, there is no difference between muni services and corporations.
Everything can be bad. Muni is not within and of itself a night and shining armor. It has the potential to suck, if mismanaged, or be great. It depends on those tasked with running it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245788 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:15:28 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245773 dispatcher21 : And who decides what a reasonable price is? The market does!! The corporations can charge whatever price they want to, it is up to the people to decide what they will pay or not. Example:If company A is charging $1,000.00 a month for broadband and 60% of the customers are paying it, guess what? The market has spoken and that is the reasonable price for it. If they charge the same price but only 3% of the customers pay it, then obviously company A has priced themselves out of the market and will adjust accordingly. Muni services are good as long as it is done correctly otherwise, there is no difference between muni services and corporations.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245773 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:11:52 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245517 Maxo :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

All workmen and investors deserve to make a profit on the work and investing they do.
I agree with your first statement. We all have a right to exchange goods and services in an effort to sustain ourselves and our families. This is nothing new. People have been working for a living since the dawn of man (sans slavery.)
said by bogey780 See Profile :

Framing the debate as people or profit is in error.
No it's not. If there is error in my statement that you should not profit at the expense of people then please explain to me what the problem is. Telling me it's in error doesn't mean more than me telling you a video game is bad. The statement alone is not an argument and has no logic.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad

»maxolasersquad.com/

»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide

»myspace.com/mlsquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245517 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:28:30 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245478 tsu9 : And whilst no private/public company wants to run it..?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245478 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:21:46 EDT Re: This trolls stupid post... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245402 ross :
said by dnabdaorb :

so what
Consider the source:

dnabdaorb(anon)
@sbc.com

another f**king teletroll, don't we have enough Telco cheerleaders already registered here..?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245402 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:07:09 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244624 anon : so what]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244624 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:01:34 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245353 bogey780 : All workmen and investors deserve to make a profit on the work and investing they do. Framing the debate as people or profit is in error.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245353 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:59:05 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245343 bogey780 : Let them get a private company to run it. If they're ding it with taxpayer funds to offset the loss of ROI then it's patently unfair.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245343 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:57:18 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245336 wtansill :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

Corporate accounting is a neat field. If you think corporations making more money are a bad thing then well....no way to win with you.
The fact that corporations make money is not, de facto, a bad thing. What's bad is the focus on privatizing profits whilw socializing expenses. MallWart is a classic example of that mentality -- the are phenominally profitable (well, ok, not this quarter) but at the expense of many other social goods. Things like paying a living wage (many MallWart workers still require government subsidies because they can't live on what they are paid, working full time: »www.dsausa.org/lowwage/walmart/2···udy.html), destroying the ecosystem around them (not only are the small mom & pop stores driven out, read up on the number of suppliers that MallWart has chewed up and spit out. For example -- they nearly destroyed Vlassic, maker of pickles, as well as Huffy, manufacturers of bicycles:
»www.fastcompany.com/online/77/walmart.html)

MallWart, of course is a covenient target due to its sheet size, but the telecomm industry is by no mean innocent. For example -- Veizon chief Seidenberg had a base salary of 1.5 million and a boinus of 2.75 million in 2003. That's jumped to a base of 2.1 million and bonus of 4.1 million in 2005. An increase of 80% and 49%, respectively (source: »www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/···14a.htm_. I don't know the actual increase, but I'm willing to bet that VZ rank and file did not enjoy such an increase, and, while the stock has come back a bit this year, it's almost flatlined since 2003. So for mediocre performance at best, this guy nearly doubles his take? Please explain to me the logic or justice in this.
--
That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245336 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:56:20 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245329 tsu9 : We all know that UTOPIA has destroyed any semblance of competative service/pricing within its bounds.

Right?
....right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245329 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:55:12 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245312 AtlGuy : Who's to say those cities/towns have competition now? If the Bells won't roll their broadband services to communities, what are those communities supposed to do? Wait and hope and pray that the Bells service them?

If those communities want to service themself, then to hell with the companies that said they won't get enough of an ROI to serve them.

It seems as though you're fine with companies like you work for cherry picking, but at the same time not wanting the local gov'ts to serve themselves.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245312 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:52:17 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245215 KoolMoe : It seems that often folks who criticize government-run services, whether state or federal, include the gross inefficiencies that seem to accompany such services.

Would you agree that private enterprise is generally more efficient?

If so, would there be room for private corporations to compete with government, right? They could offer services for a better price?

Do you think local government would undercut the private enterprise and just show more loss? Think the citizens would stand for that?
I dunno...
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245215 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:36:02 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245196 karlmarx : "Your right to profit ends when it becomes to the detriment of the community."

I absolutely agree with that statement. If the local power plant is gouging the consumer, then YES, the government SHOULD step in, and fix it. Corporations exist because we decided to allow them. However, we do NOT exist to service the corporation, as you so soundly put it. There is no intrisic right for ANY company to make money. The companies only make money if they sell a product at a reasonable price. When the company gets too big/greedy, that's when the problems arise.

Muni broadband is the CURE for the megacorp greed. Muni services provide an outlet for local communities to control their own destinies. Muni services are a GOOD thing.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245196 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:32:43 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245104 Maxo :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

If that's the basis of your economic theory then capitalism will not thrive.
I consider it my social theory. People come first, always. There is no room in the bible for putting money before people. Money is not necessarily bad, but when it trumps communities and people it is.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245104 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:14:57 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245093 bogey780 : 'Section 8? Food stamps? Welfare? D'oh! '

Good thing you mentioned that. That's the gov't giving subsidies to the consumer to spend at private enterprises. Section 8 doesn't destroy renters (outside of the unsavory element) nor does food stamps destroy food stores.

Corporate accounting is a neat field. If you think corporations making more money are a bad thing then well....no way to win with you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245093 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:12:32 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245051 bogey780 : 'If the collective people want to run a local ISP I don't see a problem in that.'

Well then don't ever expect to see competition. No one else will come in unless they they can somehow make it in an environment that they can not compete in.

'Your right to profit ends when it becomes to the detriment of the community.'

If that's the basis of your economic theory then capitalism will not thrive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17245051 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:04:07 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244900 anon : Wow. I guess those retired on a fixed income who more or less depend on the dividends and income from investments (mutual funds, retirement plans, etc.) are "the rich". Do you know what funds those plans? Investments. Do you know what those investments are? Stocks and bonds. Do you know who issues those stocks and bonds? Your evil corporations.

I sincerely hope you are never in a position to depend on income from your own labor because if you are you'd never make it. Homie.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244900 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:43:17 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244890 Maxo :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

Because if the gov't does it for below cost no one ever will come along to do it.

It's the same thing with food aid. Why should North Korea spend money on farming when America will feed them? Same with any gov't expenditure to "meet people's needs". It doesn't amke the problem go away; it just makes the gov't bigger.
First, muni's do make the problem go away. Second, I'm a big supporter of states, and localities, rights. I would love for there to be a huge shift in power away from the federal government and moved towards the local governments. Local governments should be empowered to meet the needs of the people that are not otherwise being met. The government should be of, for, and by the people. If the collective people want to run a local ISP I don't see a problem in that. I don't like to see people's will to help themselves squashed by a so-called right to profit. Your right to profit ends when it becomes to the detriment of the community.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad

»maxolasersquad.com/

»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide

»myspace.com/mlsquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244890 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:41:09 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244839 Blackened :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

'You gave a very presumptuous analogy, since broadband is not a consumer good, but a vital information service.'

Food and housing isn't vital?
Section 8? Food stamps? Welfare? D'oh! :D

quote:
I'm suprised that more Americans aren't concerned that the gov't is trying to run Fortune 500 companies out of busines.

Peace is war? Freedom is slavery?

»money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/···ll/1995/

»money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/···ll/2000/

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fortune_500 (2006)

Looks like since 2000, the top 500 (minus GM) corporate revenue and profits have doubled, whereas the growth from 1995 to 2000 was slow and steady. So I get 2 things from this:

• #1, the corporations aren't in any trouble at all. It shows by how much more they're bringing in.

• #2, I'm not going to feel bad for the rich, considering the play in interest groups and dwindling medical coverage despite record profits.

I think you got your priorities twisted, homie.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244839 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:31:19 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244796 bogey780 : Because if the gov't does it for below cost no one ever will come along to do it.

It's the same thing with food aid. Why should North Korea spend money on farming when America will feed them? Same with any gov't expenditure to "meet people's needs". It doesn't amke the problem go away; it just makes the gov't bigger.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244796 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:22:38 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244774 bogey780 : 'You gave a very presumptuous analogy, since broadband is not a consumer good, but a vital information service.'

Food and housing isn't vital?

I'm suprised that more Americans aren't concerned that the gov't is trying to run Fortune 500 companies out of busines.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244774 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:17:05 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244523 Maxo :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

It's not competition if you can use the force of gov't and limitless cash flow to run the other guys outof town.

How about we have some gov't run stores, auto dealers, etc and see how well thatgoes over.
If there was no other stores, auto dealers, etc. in the area then why shouldn't the community be allowed to band together to provide one?
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad

»maxolasersquad.com/

»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide

»myspace.com/mlsquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244523 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:29:04 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244517 Blackened :
said by bogey780 See Profile :

It's not competition if you can use the force of gov't and limitless cash flow to run the other guys outof town.

How about we have some gov't run stores, auto dealers, etc and see how well thatgoes over.
The people have spoken, and in nearly every vote that's come up for muni broadband it's passed. Considering the corporations can't get broadband to every person in a state or city they service, and don't care to, it needs to be done in some other fashion.

You gave a very presumptuous analogy, since broadband is not a consumer good, but a vital information service. It is why many cities are deciding to go with muni, and much more to come. Heck, I'd sure like the surrounding cities here to go muni too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244517 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:26:39 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244470 bogey780 : It's not competition if you can use the force of gov't and limitless cash flow to run the other guys outof town.

How about we have some gov't run stores, auto dealers, etc and see how well thatgoes over.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244470 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:16:58 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244426 Maxo :
said by DaBavarian See Profile :

Personally, I just don't see public funded Internet access being an adequate answer or much of anything else that government provides/runs.
A municipal running a service is not within and of itself a bad thing. Some local governments do a good job, others a bad. Many cities and counties run their own garbage collection/recycling, electricity, water, and other services just fine. There is no reason a locally owned ISP can't do a good job. In fact, many are doing good. If the locals vote to approve having their tax money spent on a muni-ISP then they should have every right to give it a shot. If it fails then it's their own money down the drain.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad

»maxolasersquad.com/

»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide

»myspace.com/mlsquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244426 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:04:00 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244418 DaBavarian : residents....(sp)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244418 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:02:34 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244407 DaBavarian : Personally, I just don't see public funded Internet access being an adequate answer or much of anything else that government provides/runs. If broadband access is considered a "right" as some communities call it then those same communities should also be willing to pay for computers for its residence to access the wifi network. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244407 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:00:40 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244395 Blackened : It's definitely a good thing.

Now all they need to do is start instituting muni broadband nationwide and we'll truly see how competitive AT&T really is. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244395 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:57:28 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244356 Maxo :
said by DaBavarian See Profile :

Deployment is only going to happen by the means of big business to make it happen with private investment.
Broadband deployment will happen as companies think it is profitable. If they think deploying technology X at location Y will be profitable they will do it. With the way things have been going competition will be nil and there will be little incentive for ISPs to expand as they won't be in a race with anyone else. They'll do it at their own leisure with minimal risk. If we can get real competition companies will be climbing over each other to offer services and not be left behind.
I'm for deregulation, to a point, but at some point you have to say enough is enough, monopolies are getting too big, and the US is suffering from it.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad

»maxolasersquad.com/

»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide

»myspace.com/mlsquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244356 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:50:48 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244327 KoolMoe :
said by DaBavarian See Profile :

Deployment is only going to happen by the means of big business to make it happen with private investment.
What does that even mean?
Are you suggesting the only way for consumers to have broadband available is to depend on private enterprise?
If so, doesn't that completely ignore (and thus become invalid) the multiple muni efforts currently established or under development?
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244327 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:44:40 EDT Re: This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244312 DaBavarian : Followed by high taxes. You would think with San Fran Values applied Democrats would be more involved in promoting broadband and deployment. Deployment is only going to happen by the means of big business to make it happen with private investment. Maybe there will be a welfare system established broadband now and free computers for all the public funded wifi. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244312 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:41:19 EDT This is the start of a series of headaches for Big Business http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244268 mesmerMAN : whether that's a good thing or not depends on your commitement to big business and how they prove themselves to the little man :D ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17244268 Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:30:34 EDT