Re: So I guess they didn't really prove in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16999706 en Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:24:04 EDT Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:24:04 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17006537 anon : Not asking the right questions.

What you should be asking is where did these numbers come from. Considering that most piracy is done in private and in secret how in the world do they compute lost sales? So where does the number of lost sales come from?

Another question is the value placed on that lost sale. Is a DVD $30, $20, or $10? I bet since the suggested retail value of most DVDs is $30 (even though never sold at that price), that means that the numbers are automatically inflated 2x over their true value.

What about song sales, do they count the going iTunes rate of $1.00 per song or do they go with the suggested retail price of $20 per CD? Again, that leads to a high inflated value.

Finally, what is the ratio of pirate items to lost sales? I am betting, again to maximize the number they report, they decide its 1 to 1. That means for every item pirated, thats an item that wasn't sold in the market, but is that really true? Is it really true that if the person couldn't buy an item pirated they would buy it at retail? So if can't download the movie they go buy a ticket? They go get the DVD? If they can't get the song, they go and buy the CD? I mean really, what are that chances of that being 1:1? I say none.

So, really, you are looking at a value that is exaggerated in every way possible. What part of the presented stats are even valid? Who don't know because no one asks.

Ever heard of the saying from Mark Twain? "There are lies, damn lies and statistics." The MPAA have an agenda and whatever data they present will be to maximize that agenda. Always always questions where the data comes from and how its derived.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17006537 Sun, 01 Oct 2006 02:22:43 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17004244 jwsmiths4 : The jobs that are being lost aren't in movie production I bet (afterall i don't see any shortage of movies being made) -- they're in the distribution channels, retail sales, whatever else.
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»web.mac.com/jwsmiths/iWeb]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17004244 Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:04:09 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17003744 Capharnaum :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by David See Profile :

. After all they proved that 38% of the internet was the problem, and 62% was not the problem. Either way they pretty much hung themselves.

So like I said Good job guys, try not to prove your point next time so the whole world can see how stupid you guys really are!
Keep this post in mind when a thief breaks into your house and ONLY steals 38% of your posessions. Don't bother calling the police because 62% was left. So the theft doesn't count, RIGHT??
How about: when a thief breaks into your house and then copies only 38% of your possessions. Cause it's not like the movie industry doesn't have their product anymore.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17003744 Sat, 30 Sep 2006 14:24:03 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17003628 TKJunkMail :
said by David See Profile :

. After all they proved that 38% of the internet was the problem, and 62% was not the problem. Either way they pretty much hung themselves.

So like I said Good job guys, try not to prove your point next time so the whole world can see how stupid you guys really are!
Keep this post in mind when a thief breaks into your house and ONLY steals 38% of your posessions. Don't bother calling the police because 62% was left. So the theft doesn't count, RIGHT??
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said by FiL See Profile :

i hear what Beach is saying; why go after the smaller outfits head on, with all that tenacity?

The AA's sue dead people. Grandmas. While Joe Publics on the street making a killin' off of 12cent blank dvd and cd burns.

Im skeptical on the number of jobs being lost due to the piraters. One lost job in the "industry" means another new employee for the pirates! See, it evens out.

Plus, 170,000 minumum wage jobs is NOT what the country needs at this point.
The other part of the Nice going MPAA way not to prove your arguement, was when the RIAA/MPAA ordered the pirate bay to be shut down earlier this year (illegally in thier country per say) so with this report that's pretty much evidence that they did not have a case to shut them down as they originally thought. Now thepiratebay.org 's staff (after seeing this probably) will hand this to thier attourney for a harrassment suit. After all they proved that 38% of the internet was the problem, and 62% was not the problem. Either way they pretty much hung themselves.

So like I said Good job guys, try not to prove your point next time so the whole world can see how stupid you guys really are!
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17003373 Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:04:56 EDT Re: Unions still strong in Hollywood http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17001032 wev567 : Members of many of these unions work maybe a half a dozen days a year. The majority of SAG mambers can barely afford to pay for the discounted health care plans it offers. Entertainment unions are like the steelworkers. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17001032 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:49:18 EDT Re: Unions still strong in Hollywood http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000691 kamm :
said by wifi4milez See Profile :

said by kamm See Profile :

"Lies, damn lies and statistics."
I would say that 70% counts as most people. Not really sure what figures you are going by.......
Ummm for example "entertainment workers" which counts everybody within 150 miles radius of studio? :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000691 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:26:06 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000656 iotastorm : ...and 70% of those jobs will be OUTSOURCED]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000656 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:42:53 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000628 Cthen :
said by Fountainhead See Profile :

It's 38% of the problem..

So what is your point?
That the MPAA and you are full of sh** is probably the point.

This newest study, funded by the MPAA
That says it all to me. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000628 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:36:14 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000326 MysticGogeta : A plumber makes alot of money quite actually your metaphor is quite off. If I owned a plumbing company, and I had alot of jobs to do I would hire a few more plumber assistants to help me out, so lets say Joe does not work as hard as Smith and is not as skilled as him. Jobs slow down and I need to fire someone because of it I would fire Joe. This is the same idea just on a much larger scale.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000326 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:38:01 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000324 fldiver : LOL; and who knows how many items are outsourced to countries like India??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000324 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:36:41 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000244 Kearnstd :
said by MysticGogeta See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by FiL See Profile :

Plus, 170,000 minumum wage jobs is NOT what the country needs at this point.
The movie industry has numerous high paid UNION jobs. And any loss of jobs there aren't minimum wage ones.
When your at the job who do they cut first the low paid shit workers and then they outsource the job out to india, the big ceos and high paid jobs are kept because they have skills
higher pay doesnt mean they have any skills. a Plumber is more skilled then any CEO(a CEO probally has to call for help to plug in the coffee maker like other rich people) but gets paid "shit".
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said by markopoleo See Profile :

So the loss is in the USA, while it created a 170k street vendors jobs. I don't see the problem :P
Damn, you thought the same thing I did!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000198 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:12:37 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000169 markopoleo : So the loss is in the USA, while it created a 170k street vendors jobs. I don't see the problem :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000169 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:09:03 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000094 NormanS : The Internet, eh?

In the last eight years I have purchased, maybe, two dozen MPAA DVDs (at least half of them either Buena Vista releases of Studio Ghibli films, or Pioneer releases of some of the lesser anime studios in Japan), and a dozen RIAA music CDs.

Not that I am a piker, nor that I have downloaded their product. If I don't think it is worth buying, I certainly am not going get the pirated version. Junk is still just junk, even if it is grabbed from a pirate site.

I am not a slouch on spending though. In the same period of time I have probably purchased a hundred, or so, DVDs. Mostly foreign stuff (including a was of Studio Ghibli films on Region 2 DVDs). Same with the music CDs. In the latter case, I am willing to pay 2x U.S. CD prices for the music; the Japanese recording studios can't be spending more on production than the U.S. studios, do you think? But they sure stick it to the Japanese consumer!

The point being, the U.S. media purveyors won't offer product that I will pay for. There aren't enough of us for them to bother with. If they can't sell a million a month, they won't package it, and sell it.

If they really want my money, why don't they offer me something I will pay for?
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000094 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:53:58 EDT Re: Unions still strong in Hollywood http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000069 wifi4milez :
said by kamm See Profile :

"Lies, damn lies and statistics."
I would say that 70% counts as most people. Not really sure what figures you are going by.......
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

»findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m···92808160
Roughly 70 percent of the estimated 800,000 entertainment workers in Los Angeles County--a catchall category that includes everyone from actors and professional dancers to prop handlers and electricians--are members of trade unions, according to AFL-CIO's Center for Regional Employment Strategies.
ROFLMAO - do you even read your own links? there you go, you have just said it:

estimated 800,000 entertainment workers in Los Angeles County--a catchall category that includes everyone from actors and professional dancers to prop handlers and electricians--
A shining example of the "creative arts" of bookeeping, accounting....

"Lies, damn lies and statistics."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17000039 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:45:06 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999874 Thaler :
said by RayW See Profile :

Wonder how many of those listed jobs were actually lost to automation and new technology?
Bingo. Their job estimate is likely as well cooked as their piracy damages estimate. Even if piracy were to stop tomorrow and their "predicted" surge of happened, there wouldn't be a 140,000 job increase, if any at all.

Cry me another one MPAA.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999874 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:19:53 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999835 MeKuN : And yet the movie industry feels the need to pump out remade movies and then blame it on piracy. I know a pirates of the carribean made big money, it was worth seeing. How come they dont see a pattern of you make a good movie people will go see it, instead of make crap try and trick people to see it and when attendance drops blame it on piracy.
Take a college course, pull your head out of your ass 101.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999835 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:13:34 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999828 GlennAllen :
"This is for anybody that buys into so called "studies" funded by self-interest groups..."


Such as, unfortunately, that other group in D.C., aka Congress.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999828 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:12:42 EDT Unions still strong in Hollywood http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999818 TKJunkMail : »findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m···92808160
Roughly 70 percent of the estimated 800,000 entertainment workers in Los Angeles County--a catchall category that includes everyone from actors and professional dancers to prop handlers and electricians--are members of trade unions, according to AFL-CIO's Center for Regional Employment Strategies.

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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by FiL See Profile :

Plus, 170,000 minumum wage jobs is NOT what the country needs at this point.
The movie industry has numerous high paid UNION jobs. And any loss of jobs there aren't minimum wage ones.
When your at the job who do they cut first the low paid shit workers and then they outsource the job out to india, the big ceos and high paid jobs are kept because they have skills]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999785 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:05:37 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999779 qdemn7 :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by FiL See Profile :

Plus, 170,000 minumum wage jobs is NOT what the country needs at this point.
The movie industry has numerous high paid UNION jobs. And any loss of jobs there aren't minimum wage ones.
Quite true, but then Hollywood itself is it's own worst enemy.

If HOLLYWOOD as an industry was really concerned about American jobs then they wouldn't be making so many production in Canada, the UK and Australia not to mention Eastern Europe.

When they start making all of their films in the US, I'll listen to what they say.
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by FiL See Profile :

Plus, 170,000 minumum wage jobs is NOT what the country needs at this point.
The movie industry has numerous high paid UNION jobs. And any loss of jobs there aren't minimum wage ones.
ROFLAMO - one more funny comment.

FYI: most of the film industry is based on freelancers. Rest of the workers are the showroom dummies to fool "naive" :uhh: folks like you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999753 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:01:14 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999706 RayW :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

The movie industry has numerous high paid UNION jobs. And any loss of jobs there aren't minimum wage ones.
Wonder how many of those listed jobs were actually lost to automation and new technology? If the indications that my wife saw 15 years ago are still true, a lot of job losses in that industry are not piracy, but no longer needing the people. And with the animation affects that are getting such that it is hard to tell real people from animations, even more are lost (Shrek caused a big stink in that respect, and I heard that they had to dumb the art down to keep the unions from exploding).
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Psst... want to buy the Brooklyn bridge? good deal!

:huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999651 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:44:07 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999637 TKJunkMail :
said by FiL See Profile :

Plus, 170,000 minumum wage jobs is NOT what the country needs at this point.
The movie industry has numerous high paid UNION jobs. And any loss of jobs there aren't minimum wage ones.
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The AA's sue dead people. Grandmas. While Joe Publics on the street making a killin' off of 12cent blank dvd and cd burns.

Im skeptical on the number of jobs being lost due to the piraters. One lost job in the "industry" means another new employee for the pirates! See, it evens out.

Plus, 170,000 minumum wage jobs is NOT what the country needs at this point. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999619 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:38:49 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999579 David :
said by Fountainhead See Profile :

It's 38% of the problem..

So what is your point?
They proved that 62% of the problem was not on the internet. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999579 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:31:46 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999565 TKJunkMail :
said by Fountainhead See Profile :

It's 38% of the problem..

So what is your point?
You beat me to that point. The internet piracy is still to the tune $7.8 billion.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999565 Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:29:58 EDT Re: So I guess they didn't really prove http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16999555 Fountainhead : It's 38% of the problem..

So what is your point?
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