Both sides pay for access in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16431738 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:12:58 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:12:58 EDT Re: Let's put this one to bed... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16493939 magnushsi : Your right, let's put this to bed...

Gore and the Internet
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet" Gore said when asked to cite accomplishments that separate him from another Democratic presidential hopeful, former Sen. Bill Bradley of New Jersey, during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN on March 9, 1999.
Gore supported technological advances related to the advancement of the Internet, but to say that HE took the initiative in creating the Internet is a bit much.
(Sources: Transcript »www.wired.com/news/news/politics···390.html )
(Note: Lots of people seem to enjoy e-mailing me, professing that my information about Gore saying he "invented" the Internet is wrong, that he did support things which helped get the Internet moving, etc. First, I know he never said he "invented" the Internet. Please notice the quote above. Second, saying that he took the initiative in CREATING the Internet is still a funny statement since the Internet was already created and being used (ex: file copying via the UUCP protocol and e-mail) by the time he was elected to Congress. One can't take the "initiative" to "create" something which has already been created.) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16493939 Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:41:43 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16435757 rradina : I'm not sure laying fiber across the country is the problem. At least several years ago there were complaints that too much fiber had been installed and much of it was dark. I don't know if that's still true.

It is true, however, that an improved infrastructure to the curb (each home) has been artificially retarded by oligopolies unwilling to settle for a fair return on their investment. Rather than a fair return for their investment and having to deal with potential competitors leasing their investment (keeping prices low), they want to keep if for themselves and maximize their returns. And in a competitive environment, they have an obligation to do so for their shareholders. But fair competition does not exist. If it did, Google, Microsoft and other major content providers would not be voicing opinions. They would simply move their business to the next provider -- the way capitalism is designed to work; consumers having choices and thereby keeping vendors and providers efficient and fair.

Regarding running out of bandwidth -- the cable companies seemingly prove how ridiculous this notion is. Instead of lowering prices on existing bandwidth tiers, they keep raising the bandwidth on existing tiers. The only way this model works is if the bandwidth cost of the service is not linear (that is, as bandwidth increases, costs increase at a rate that is far less than proportional) or bandwidth represents such a small cost of the overall service that they can afford to double or even triple it speeds for the same price. Rather than running out of bandwidth, they continue to innovate by replacing equipment and modems so that they can offer increased upload and download speeds.

Although we've heard about the ILECs having improved DSL equipment to offer increased speeds over the same infrastructure, they've done next to nothing regarding these technologies. Granted, running fiber is much better but they've only recently begun doing this. And they seem to fight every competitor who wants to socialize the infrastructure and offer a community option.

I just don't trust the ILECs. They are old money and they are used to having guaranteed business, guaranteed profits and measured innovation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16435757 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:59:28 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16434789 backness : i agree completely with you.

While studying this net neutrality debate it raises the question, for me anyway, Could the pathetic upgrade schedule of the north american broadband have contributed to the dot com bust? I think you might be able to prove the case that their resistance to lay fiber all accross the USA may have contributed significantly to the dot com bust as consumers were completely shut out of the broadband world and therfore all but the strongest business plans were completely useless.

Do we need to be put further behind? These people act like laying fiber to the curb is a bad for them (when in reality it becomes an asset to the company). Remember in 1985 they predicted that the USA would be almost all fiber to the house by 2000. The current regualtory enviroment of oligopoly control continues to drag their feet and need to have less control not more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16434789 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 19:00:29 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16434175 Jafo232 : Gives a whole new meaning to boob tube..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16434175 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 17:13:09 EDT Re: Let's put this one to bed... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16433653 dave :
said by Brigrat See Profile :

Not in so many words, but he certainly took credit for its existence...
Yes, and deservedly too.

At least, Cerf and Kahn (who did invent the Internet :-)) think so.

Here.

As usual when dealing with potential myths, it's wise to check with Snopes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16433653 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 15:43:19 EDT Re: Let's put this one to bed... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16433590 Spudge_Boy : No he didn't. He spoke about how he pushed for legislation that help to bring about the Internet we know today. Everything was a bunch of text and crap, until Al Gore started telling everybody abou the "Information Superhighway" ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16433590 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 15:31:51 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16433318 fiberguy :
said by Brigrat See Profile :

I love indignant internet morons who start every counter argument with gramatical errors...you are hilarious...
I try to be...

I would think from my post that you'd see that I too am an independant.

But, if you want to say something as a joke, sometimes a :) after the joke helps. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16433318 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:35:23 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16432913 rradina : CrazyTown -- are you trolling? Your statements defy logic. Google and every other content provider pays a lot of money for their "bandwidth" to the Internet.

In the early days the bandwidth providers increased the efficiency of the pipe and lowered prices. They saw their "money grab" as luring more and more customers to connect to their transportation system. And they were successful. As prices dropped, revenue climbed as more and more customers joined.

Now with access ubiquitous, revenue growth has slowed. Instead of simply selling more, they need to figure out ways to be more efficient. But it's far easier to increase margins by raising prices than lowering costs.

Unhappy with their current lot, the bandwidth providers are seeking a way to grow revenue by redefining the landscape. While this would be as it should be in an capitalist society, I don't believe sufficient competition exists for the providers to police themselves. Wave after wave of ILEC mergers and buyouts have left us with only a few competitors. The oligopoly has spoken and they want to examine what is being transferred and charge a premium based on content value.

Their premise is that those who make more money, can pay to have their traffic prioritized. It's a sound assumption with the unfortunate side effect of potentially stifling innovation and competition in the entire tech sector. Soon bandwidth will be the key to every tech-centric business as they convert their business models from selling units to selling services.

What small businesses are asking is that our government police the oligopoly to prevent them from creating a landscape where the price of entry is so steep as to prevent all but the richest companies from providing new services. Such an environment is lazy in that it produces predictable growth and measured innovation. This would be unlike emerging world powers where government has taken a heavy hand in promoting massive communications infrastructures to ensure innovation's pace is as rapid as possible.

If we let the bandwidth providers have their way, it will be similar to the electric company charging a jewelry store (with 300% margins) more per kilowatt than a grocery store (5% margins). Not only that but in times of peak usage, the grocery store's frozen food may spoil to ensure that the jewelry store's customers always see the sparkle in that massive engagement stone.

Of course if we listen to the oligopoly, we either do this or face "clogged" pipes -- as the senator asserts. As I understand it, the Internet 2 proved that prioritization is a fools game. Although Quality of Service (QOS) prioritization schemes help in very predictable situations, the Internet 2 (like the Internet) was too unpredictable. Rather than QOS, they simply added more bandwidth and the problems vanished.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16432913 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 13:21:18 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16432681 Brigrat : You obviously didn't read my post...I completely agree that this guy is an idiot...the learn the ropes comment was obviously a joke, get a clue...Party liner...are you kidding me? Since I am an Independant Conservative, I have no party...

If I didn't believe that I am right and everyone else is wrong, then I wouldn't BELIEVE anything...the whole concept of belief is that what you believe is right...you cannot believe somthing if you think you are wrong...but I suppose absolute truisms are a little beyond you...there must be a series of grey areas in there for you...

You just came in here, and did exactly what you are accusing me of doing...

Liberalism is not a disease, it is a religion, and a funny one at that...

Just go back to your cave, worship teachers who don't teach, and politicians who don't know what free choice is, and stay out of conversations you are to jaded to understand...

I love indignant internet morons who start every counter argument with gramatical errors...you are hilarious...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16432681 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:42:28 EDT Both sides pay for access http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16431738 tschmidt :
said by CrazyTown :

Any normal user should want the pipe controlled, if not your bandwidth will suffer.. I'm not sure why anyone would want to share bandwith with Google, knowing they are going to use 90% of the available Pipe, leaving everyone else with 10%.. The issue isnt about making them pay, the issue is if they don't pay then everyone else will..
How do you figure Google does not pay? Everyone pays for Internet access. Google Pays for very big pipes to the Internet backbone. You as a user pay for whatever speed you need.

It is a spacious argument saying they do not pay. I use a hosting service to run my site. Part of the monthly cost goes to pay for the server the other part to bandwidth transit costs. I'm sure if you asked Justin about what it costs to keep BBR on the web he would disagree that he was not paying his own way.

The wisdom embodied in Internet design is transparent bit delivery. Anyone can set up shop on the Internet to deliver new service. They are able to do so without the permission or cooperation of the network owner. That encourages experimentation an innovation.

That is what is at stake.

/Tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16431738 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 09:40:00 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16431703 fiberguy : "Get a life partner..." What? Are you telling him to be gay and get a life partner? or to "Get a life, partner..."

You are just as bad by judging him as he is calling names. But, I guess ince you are a "lige long conservative and proud of it" that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

The problems with conservatives, and dems are just as bad, is that they think "the other side" is wrong. There are two sides to every store, usually more, and each side belives only theirs is correct. It's SOOOO funny to sit back and watch you party-liners , a.k.a, ONE liners, think they have all the answers. It's no wonder neither of you guys "get it"

AS for your "give him some time to learn the ropes" comment, no... no time. His time is up! He's old, he's out dated, he's ready to retire. The guys a duck and quacking like crazy.

These people are in office to conduct our business and represent their people. Many of them fail at this on both sides and they also embarass our country just about everytime they speak.

These quotes are nothing more than an example of a horrible job they are doing. They made a great salary and to do what? Talk like a commplete idiot? Does he not have staff researching these issues? or is he just spewing out what makes sense for the ones that write his check? and I don't mean the tax payor either... I am talking about the corporate paycheck.

The guy didn't do his home work, period! He understands *nothing* or he wouldn't have sounded like an "idiot"

so, don't come here and puff up your chest about being a "life long conservative and proud of it"... say that all you want on election day.

I'm sorry to go on here but this notion that Republicans have that the other side is wrong, or retarded or that being liberal is a mental disease is just as idiotic as this Seanator. (I say all of this becuase if you are a life long conservative, you must follow party lines to a T and this is the current public diatribe at the moment. Fair is fair!)

Trying to curb an insult by throwing another or pointing out someone else's 'problem' is not a surprise.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16431703 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 09:31:09 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16431068 peter_m :
said by CrazyTown :

I'm not sure why anyone would want to share bandwidth with Google, knowing they are going to use 90% of the available Pipe, leaving everyone else with 10%.. The issue isn't about making them pay, the issue is if they don't pay then everyone else will.. The Senator has the point, he just doesn't have the terminology..
Ok, Google is not swallowing everyone else bandwidth. When I use my internet access (witch I payed for with money), I access content and services offered by Google out of my own free will. Google also pays for it's access to the internet. Where is the problem? What does that have to do with your pipes?

If you don't understand how the internet functions in terms of technology and principals, try taking a networking class at your local computer science school.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16431068 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:53:13 EDT Re: Let's put this one to bed... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16430534 Brigrat : Not in so many words, but he certainly took credit for its existence...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16430534 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 00:48:38 EDT Let's put this one to bed... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16430512 qworster : Let me say this ONE LAST TIME:

AL GORE NEVER CLAIMED TO HAVE INVENTED THE INTERNET!!!!

JESUS! Why can't you all get this through your thick skulls!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16430512 Tue, 04 Jul 2006 00:45:32 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16430140 Brigrat : wow, you are calling other people names in a post that is nearly as retarded as the article in question...

Get a life partner...

I am a life long conservative and proud of it, and I will be the first to admit that this guy is a first class idiot when it comes to technology...but hey, he didn't invent the internet like AlGORE, so give him some time to learn the ropes. I am sure ALGORE isn't fond of sharing the secrtets of the internet with the opposition...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16430140 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 23:41:20 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429573 anon : Um, I think Google pays for their bandwidth too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429573 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:08:33 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429525 willp1 : What expect from party of idiots and marons. Look at the Idiot Gw Bush]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429525 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 21:50:02 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429300 wheeled : " And these are the people deciding the fate of the Internet? Sad"

Are not these the same people deciding the direction and fate of your country...WoW!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429300 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 21:08:00 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429108 anon : He used some crazy words, but his point is exactly what is going on.. I'm not sure why everybody in here continues to harp on Net Neutrality, because it isnt going to impact any of you.. Any normal user should want the pipe controlled, if not your bandwidth will suffer.. I'm not sure why anyone would want to share bandwith with Google, knowing they are going to use 90% of the available Pipe, leaving everyone else with 10%.. The issue isnt about making them pay, the issue is if they don't pay then everyone else will.. The Senator has the point, he just doesn't have the terminology..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16429108 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:57:38 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428708 backness : "Do you know why?

Because they have to have theirs delivered immediately. They can't afford getting delayed by other people."

or maybe it is to keep the information from being intercepted..

what an ass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428708 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:29:18 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428674 DSLdewd : That was so rediculously stupid, I couldn't even finish reading it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428674 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:23:48 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428073 kapil : Fuck the internet...these people are deciding the fate of this nation. I wouldn't let him pick what I put on my plate at a Chinese Buffet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428073 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:17:23 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428507 The Beer : If you would like to test the internet thingy and see how clogged it is to send him an email you can do so here...

»stevens.senate.gov/contact.cfm

See if it gets there before next Thursday]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428507 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:57:11 EDT Re: are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428300 Nerdtalker :
said by LetsRok See Profile :

And these are the people deciding the fate of the Internet? Sad
Tubes... What a false analogy. Amazing yet pathetic.

[accent]You're clogging up my tubes with all that massive stuff like the back 'o my pickup truck!!1!??! I CAN"T GET MY EMAILS!!111/?![/accent]
--
"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn

I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428300 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:28:12 EDT are you kidding? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428034 LetsRok : And these are the people deciding the fate of the Internet? Sad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16428034 Mon, 03 Jul 2006 17:48:11 EDT