http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16098903 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:06:42 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:06:42 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16111871 koolman2 : When you go to connect to your network, your computer first has to send a packet out to see the network. In the process, any other networks close by respond as well, and you end up seeing a list of available networks, secure or not. The software also lists what kind of security is enabled, as this information is sent out along with all of the other information.

That's how you would know that there are other networks around.
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ERROR: CRC failed. Your signature has been lost to Cyberspace.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16111871 Tue, 16 May 2006 22:02:39 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16111587 Belial5221 : I see what you're saying.I think it's all the misuse of words that is the problem.I thought you had to actually try connecting to see if it's secure.My friends use wireless,but it don't tell you if it's secure or not,unless you try to connect,then it asks for passwords.Maybe it's a setting,or something?

But what still gets me is,why would someone want to know if there's a open network,unless they plan on using it at some point?And if someone is sitting in front of your house,then they aren't just scanning,they are probably using,or trying to use it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16111587 Tue, 16 May 2006 21:18:47 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16102090 koolman2 : Mine is secured with WPA AES 256-bit encryption. What you're trying to say, though, that by simply pressing the button that says "Scan" to connect to your own network, you are breaking the law because you have to connect to each and every access point that can see you, as they will ALL send their information back. This just simply is not the case. To connect to a network means that you have to physically ask the network operator (in this case the access point) for permission to connect. Simply asking for information is not doing that.

Visit the Wireless Networking Forum if you want to get the same answer from dozens more people. In the meantime, I guess I'll just let you continue to think that scanning for networks is illegal.
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ERROR: CRC failed. Your signature has been lost to Cyberspace.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16102090 Mon, 15 May 2006 16:48:37 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16100958 cableties : Forever...

If homeowner had front door open, and I could see and hear his TV, why not sit on the curb and watch the show? Is it illegal? no. If owner left door open, then owner is liable for what i see. But if I trespass, then I am breaking law.

If owner is broadcasting signal outside their property, is it legal to receive signal, but illegal to use it?

My nephew once bragged he was using Xbox live w/o paying for internet connection. I asked how and he said he got a wifi adaptor and put it in his window. He was getting 5 bars from someone in the neighborhood, totally unsecured 'Linksys' SSID.
I made him aware that it was illegal to tap off anothers inability to secure. Then it turned into a debate. Then he got a cablemodem and I showed him how to secure their lan/wifi (thanks to DSLreports/BBR) ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16100958 Mon, 15 May 2006 13:45:32 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16098903 gefflong : I disagree, but this argument could go on forever.

In the end...

If you don't want me to use your internet connection from either a publicly accessible place or from my own private property, then secure your signal.

End of story.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16098903 Mon, 15 May 2006 05:48:54 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16098360 koolman2 : In that case, though, you would be passively using the signal - the same goes for WiFi. The problem arises when you attempt to send a signal back to the network to gain access; that's where it becomes illegal.
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ERROR: CRC failed. Your signature has been lost to Cyberspace.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16098360 Mon, 15 May 2006 00:39:06 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16098052 gefflong : It's not the same thing Belial, but nice try.

Even if my front door is open, it's still my property and it would be trespassing.

Your "comparision" breaks down when the radio waves travel into public territory or territory privately owned by someone else. If I am sitting on my own private property and somebody's wireless network is being broadcast all over the place, then that's their own fault.

Not unlike public airwaves, where anyone with a TV and rabbit ears can receive local channels. Pay TV encrypts those signals and thus, it becomes illegal when people try to decrpyt those signals and watch without paying.

Take satellite TV for intance... It is broadcast to everyone and anyone can pick up the signal. That's not illegal. It, however, IS illegal to decrypt that signal and watch it without paying. If they didn't have their signal encrypted, would it be illegal for us to watch it? I don't think so... I didn't ask them to broadcast it to me. and If they don't want me to watch for free, then encrypt it. Simple as that.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges. Let's keep it apples to apples.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16098052 Sun, 14 May 2006 23:32:54 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16093490 koolman2 : War driving is basically going around and sending out a signal requesting a response from any and all access points that can hear you. You are thus not connecting, but merely requesting a single transmission of data. To connect to the network, you must first get this information, then change to the same channel, address the access point by name, and request to connect.

Every 802.11a/b/g client card is constantly sending out the request, which, by the way, is called a beacon packet. Therefore, we would all be breaking the law without even knowing it, right?

And no, I meant that war driving != connecting to networks, as it is not.
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ERROR: CRC failed. Your signature has been lost to Cyberspace.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16093490 Sun, 14 May 2006 03:56:19 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16092373 Belial5221 : War driving is usually(not always) used as a term to find open networks for future use,and then when used(without permission),is illegal.If someone is going around to find open networks,and letting them how to fix it,then it could be a good thing,as long as they don't use/misuse the network/connection.

gefflong,say your house door was open.Is it legal for me to go in,and do whatever I want,since I don't have to bypass any security?According to what you say,it's legal.The better thing for me to do,if I saw an open door,would be tell you,or leave a note explaining how to fix the problem.

to koolman2:"wardriving != connecting to networks"
If that's true,how do you find it open,without connecting?
I hope you mean 'wardriving != using networks'

I'm sure war driving started off as something with illegal intentions(probably covering tracks),but everyone twists it(for a clearer conscious),so there's multiple definitions,that mean different things.Kinda like "cleave",it means to split apart,and can mean put together.That's probably why there's a problem defining the legality of it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16092373 Sat, 13 May 2006 22:40:35 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16091131 koolman2 : wardriving != connecting to networks

(note: != is read as "not equal to")
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ERROR: CRC failed. Your signature has been lost to Cyberspace.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16091131 Sat, 13 May 2006 18:25:49 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16090950 gefflong : reply to Belial5221

Actually it's not stealing. It requires no "hacking" capabilites to get onto someone's wireless network if there is no protection. Hell, every windows xp laptop with a wireless card will help you "steal" (as you put it) any wireless network it finds. It pops right up and asks you if you want to join.

It becomes "stealing" when the connection is protected and you start trying to break in.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16090950 Sat, 13 May 2006 17:41:50 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16089037 Belial5221 : Actually,it is stealing.They are using the service you paid for,without your permission.It's like me using your creditcard without your permission.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16089037 Sat, 13 May 2006 10:11:52 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16085991 Rickez : I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me?!?!?!?!?!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16085991 Fri, 12 May 2006 19:55:12 EDT http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16085227 Alpine : "Are all war drivers thieves?" - No

"Are all war drivers utter losers?" - Yes

Adam]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16085227 Fri, 12 May 2006 18:06:34 EDT