Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying in PC gaming GAMES

said by Nightfall

Now that Steam is stable and works very well, other developers will no doubt come up with their own distribution software like Steam. You already have direct2drive out there as well as others starting to pop up. Its just a matter of time.

I think the price of games distributed this way will also go down as time goes on. Not by much though.

I'm sure Valve has to sell the online games fairly close to the retail price in stores, so they don't take away too much business from that delivery channel.

As for the cost of software.....new games are expensive and I've found it actually cheaper to justify the platinum packaging as with HL2. For $70 you got the Tshirt, mini book, nice packaging and the HL2 source as well as all the previous HL spin-off games.

It is disappointing to see game companies get cheap on normal games, no printed manuals and none of the frills that used to come with the average game. Heck, I remember Falcon 4.0 coming with the binder to hold the manual, maps and tips sheets!

I'll never feel too comfortable with online delivery since I really like have the disc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730972 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:07:55 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730744 wings10 :

said by Nightfall

said by wings10

said by Nightfall

said by Karl Bode

:

Possible. I think there's only so many $20 montly subscription fees users can take, and I think many next-gen console titles are going to hit the shelves at the $60 price point, which I think is ridiculous....

I have no problem paying for a quality game. Paying $50 for Half Life, getting it the day of release, and not paying tax was good enough for me. If Valve got more profit from it, I say fine. It was worth it for those reasons alone.

Now, I like to save a buck like anyone else does. Don't get me wrong on that. Would Half Life 2 have sold better if it was cheaper? Good question. Should the developers have lowered the price for Valve distribution? You have to keep in mind it was a first time thing. All the development and the rocky start of Steam was something to be wary of. I remember some of the users here bashing Steam due to the problems it had at the start.

Now that Steam is stable and works very well, other developers will no doubt come up with their own distribution software like Steam. You already have direct2drive out there as well as others starting to pop up. Its just a matter of time.

I think the price of games distributed this way will also go down as time goes on. Not by much though.

Yes I also think online distribution software like Steam is the future.
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730744 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:35:05 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730701 Jehu : lol Jade Empire was terrible.. I'm still trying to find the disc, which I flung across the room, to trade it in.

Hopefully Bioware will get back to making deep, engrossing games.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730701 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:28:41 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730673 Karl Bode :

quote:
Look at that dang upcoming release list! Auto Assault looks pretty interesting, but that's 4/2006. 95% of the other upcoming games are multi-platform (on consoles too) games.

The PC games I'm interested in over the next year:

The Movies
Oblivion
Hammer & Sickle

And if you look at companies like Bioware even, they're not making Baldur's Gate style games any more, they're making action RPGs that require less thinking (Jade Empire).

I complained about that title not being a real RPG in the console forum and was attacked in there as well. :)

There are shreds of hope for PC RPGs, "Dragon Age" is being developed for PC by Bioware, and Neverwinter Nights 2 is being developed by Obsidian, but I think both are late 2006 releases. Fallout 3 is being developed by Bethesda, but that's probably '07 or '08.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730673 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:24:31 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730615 Jehu : Page 11 roundup:

said by Karl Bode

:

I used to fight this idea that the consoles are killing PC gaming, but after the wash of feeble releases this holiday gaming season, I think it's finally coming true.

Now look at the EBGames releases from now until next summer:

»www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/p···PC+Games

Not only are there no smart, deep, original PC games coming out, there's now starting to be fewer even mediocre titles.

Note that after Christmas, nothing of any real interest gets released until February (Hellgate: London).

Not only are my favorite type of PC games no longer being made (RPG), nobody is willing to add any depth to the FPS genre the way Deus Ex and System Shock did, for fear of alienating dumb game buyers.

Look at that dang upcoming release list! Auto Assault looks pretty interesting, but that's 4/2006. 95% of the other upcoming games are multi-platform (on consoles too) games.

At the end of the day, I would much rather play games on my PC--high resolution--than on my TV. But limiting myself to the PC would make me miss out on some kick-ass games.

I again come back to the current crop of highly-talented game designers, and wonder why they choose to align themselves with consoles over PCs. Of course many console games will find an eventual home on the PC (like KOTOR or Halo), but they are ports with minor enhancements barely taking advantage of PC-power.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730615 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:16:20 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730463 Nightfall :

said by wings10

said by Nightfall

said by Karl Bode

said by Nightfall

said by Karl Bode

I use steam and have bought through steam. But it is not cheaper. You would think it would be. Valve charges the same as retail. They might give you a little more like the Silver package did. But that is gone now. Aftermath is going to sell for $12.95 on steam. I wonder what retail will sell for?
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730208 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:02:15 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730207 Karl Bode :

quote:
I think that game makers like Valve are going to be the ones to excel in the future. Steam may have had a rocky start, but look at it now. It is a great delivery system that delivers the game right to the consumer with no cost going to packaging or distribution.

Nothing keeps that system from eventually migrating to Consoles either, if Valve decides more money can be made selling to the broader console audience....

I mean, Nintendo Revolution and to some degree Xbox 360 are going to have game-downloads as well. That's a direction for all game platforms, really, not a savior of PC gaming.

Though it could prove to be a nice distribution platform for smaller indie developers....let's hope.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730207 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 10:02:09 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730168 Nightfall :

said by Karl Bode

You can thank ID Software for that. They were the ones who had the balls to price $55 for Doom 3.

I think that game makers like Valve are going to be the ones to excel in the future. Steam may have had a rocky start, but look at it now. It is a great delivery system that delivers the game right to the consumer with no cost going to packaging or distribution.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730168 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:56:36 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730093 Karl Bode : Possible. I think there's only so many $20 montly subscription fees users can take, and I think many next-gen console titles are going to hit the shelves at the $60 price point, which I think is ridiculous....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730093 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:43:43 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730079 wings10 : I noticed or it seems that all new PC games have a price point of $49.95 now. Of course you wait a few months and you can get them for around $30. But seems games have gone up in price. And with all these new game consoles coming out I feel there will be a "crash" just like back in 1984. Just to much product out and to many game consoles fighting for your money.
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730079 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:41:34 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730071 Rogue Wolf :

said by Karl Bode

:

Then of course you have Deus Ex 2, which shipped with a bunch of Xbox development bugs that never should have appeared on PC (like a botched save system and mouse lag). I still haven't been able to play that game through on PC yet.... :)

Eww. You actually bought the game? My condolences. I played the demo once, deleted it and spent the next half-hour wondering what they were thinking releasing that pile of crap.

:huh:

I never did finish the original, and I can't find my disc... sigh.
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Non impediti ratione cogitationis. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730071 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:40:16 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730046 Nightfall : Well, I just read all 11 pages of this thread again and my head is spinning. :)

I really don't know what to say Karl other than to let the numbers do the talking. PC Gaming is still OVER a 1 billion dollar a year industry. With that kind of money, you can bet your ass that PC gaming is going to be around for quite some time.

Lack of innovation is rampant among all games these days. Seems that there are some good concepts or ideas out there. Look at Max Payne for the PC. That game was the first to add "bullet time" or slowing down the gameplay. That was a nice addition to a game, but not totally innovative if you ask me.

Same goes for World of Warcraft. That game was an improvement over other MMORPGs, but there was no massive innovation to it.

Look at console games now. How many Mortal Kombat games are they going to make? Racing games like Need for speed? As I said before, the entire gaming industry is stuck in a rut in terms of massive innovation.

PC games have their advantages and disadvantages over consoles and vice versa. I don't think the platform is the issue.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730046 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:35:58 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730000 Karl Bode :

quote:
Well, I will state one case where PC gaming came out ahead of console gaming.

Thief: Deadly Shadows.

This game shipped for both the PC and the XBox with (at least what I think is) a game-killing bug: Upon leaving a zone (map section) and returning, or loading a saved game, the difficulty defaulted to "Normal" no matter what you had it set as. A program was quickly put together to force the PC version to keep the difficulty values constant; after a month or so, Ion Storm released a hurried patch that fixed the problem.

Not so for the XBox version. The company decided not to release a patch for the game through XBox Live, and shortly after the PC version patch and map creation tools were released, Ion Storm went under. Now XBox gamers are stuck with a broken game that does not work as intended.

Then of course you have Deus Ex 2, which shipped with a bunch of Xbox development bugs that never should have appeared on PC (like a botched save system and mouse lag). I still haven't been able to play that game through on PC yet.... :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14730000 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:28:19 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14729984 Karl Bode :

quote:
wow...now you guys are resorting to deleting posts that don't agree with yours! Wow...broadbandreports now resorts to censorship! Woohoo!!!

The posts being deleted are either childish insults or misdirected teen angst, and I'm tired of that crap in this forum. I'm going to start cracking down harder on it to improve the quality of this forum for everyone.

If you have an actual point to make about PC gaming that doesn't include childish personal attacks, I'll be glad to leave it intact no matter how much it varies from my personal beliefs. If you can't do that, don't whine, go post on game-related boards for little kids.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14729984 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 09:25:43 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14728424 fegul : Nah the mods here respect free speech, just dont abuse it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14728424 Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:18:16 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14727517 Dread :

said by wings10

said by dj_figgy

:

wow...now you guys are resorting to deleting posts that don't agree with yours! Wow...broadbandreports now resorts to censorship! Woohoo!!!

Watch out or you might get post-banned for not agreeing with the mods]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14727517 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:55:23 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14727026 wings10 :

said by dj_figgy

:

wow...now you guys are resorting to deleting posts that don't agree with yours! Wow...broadbandreports now resorts to censorship! Woohoo!!!

Well it is not censorship. Read before you post it says the mods can delete for any or no reason. That is why you can't speak your mind. and I will not spend/donate money on this site like I do on others. learn to live with it. We all do. :(
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14727026 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:00:28 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14726993 dj_figgy : wow...now you guys are resorting to deleting posts that don't agree with yours! Wow...broadbandreports now resorts to censorship! Woohoo!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14726993 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 20:55:37 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14726483 Rogue Wolf : Well, I will state one case where PC gaming came out ahead of console gaming.

Thief: Deadly Shadows.

This game shipped for both the PC and the XBox with (at least what I think is) a game-killing bug: Upon leaving a zone (map section) and returning, or loading a saved game, the difficulty defaulted to "Normal" no matter what you had it set as. A program was quickly put together to force the PC version to keep the difficulty values constant; after a month or so, Ion Storm released a hurried patch that fixed the problem.

Not so for the XBox version. The company decided not to release a patch for the game through XBox Live, and shortly after the PC version patch and map creation tools were released, Ion Storm went under. Now XBox gamers are stuck with a broken game that does not work as intended.

I won't even bother going into the wide, wide world of Mods for PC games. I'm sure just about everyone here has their own list of favorites. When was the last time somebody came out with a map-pack for Splinter Cell on XBox? ;)
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Non impediti ratione cogitationis. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14726483 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:50:36 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725994 wings10 :

said by Karl Bode

:

You have to either like ATI/Nvidia. Xbox/PS2. PSP/DS. Intel/AMD. They've created a bunch of rabid brand loyalists no longer capable of reasonable nuanced discussion.

OMG. Don't even start with witch is better Xbox or PS2. You will really start a battle then. :).
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725994 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 18:42:38 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725521 Karl Bode : Too much fanboyism coaxed and encouraged by marketing departments. Creates kind of an absolutist mindset.

You have to either like ATI/Nvidia. Xbox/PS2. PSP/DS. Intel/AMD. They've created a bunch of rabid brand loyalists no longer capable of reasonable nuanced discussion.

If I criticize PC games (no matter how much I love them), I must A. automatically be a console fanboy who must be verbally destroyed and B. be an enemy of the state. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725521 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 17:39:03 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725358 Jehu : I think Karl's original post must have taken the car keys and gone on some mass spree of running over people's dogs.:p

I'll never understand why so many gamers get all uptight when anyone brings up console games as a comparison (for discussion) to PC games. Whatever.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725358 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 17:15:32 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725335 wings10 :

said by justin

said by TexasGuy

I have to agree with that. Seems the younger they are the better they are. :)

Maybe its because there kids and don't work and have all day to play?
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725335 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 17:12:34 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725245 justin :

said by TexasGuy

:

Karl and Justin, are not you too old for games? Should you leave gaming for your kids?

I'm too old for online FPS and online RTS games, it only takes a few times where you are owned by a strutting 12 year old with (or without) a cheat, to gain a distaste for them. I have too much life away from the PC (or at work) to keep up with an MMORPG.
I do like a good PSP game, and many fringe console games are still fun. I'd probably find a few PC games a year tempting.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725245 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:59:51 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725224 Karl Bode :

quote:
again, if pc gaming is dying - pc games themselves, and their innate lack of creativity, are the cause of this, one might logically assume that by stealing the crowd, console games are doing the things that pc games dont.

You're assuming PC gamers became Console gamers because the console games are better.

What happened is that PC gaming was a niche market geared toward semi-intellectual geeks with disposable income.

As companies grew and went public gaining investors, they began to realize they could make more money by appealing to more people. You do that by releasing games that are easy to pick up and play, and fewer sims, RPGs, and other titles that require a larger learning curve.

Since consoles are standard there's less development and support headaches.

None of that suggests console games are "better" in the quality sense, just better for business.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725224 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:57:23 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725070 crazediamond :

said by Karl Bode

:

You're like the fifth person to suggest that because I've criticized the state of PC gaming, that means I must consider consoles some kind of gaming nirvana.

No, Consoles are in a worse state in many regards, because they are the breeding grounds for truly inane titles geared at the lowest common denominator.

Stats show that's where the development money and customers are shifting however. I don't think I've said at any time I think that's a good thing.

pretty sure that i asked about console game titles, which aside from a post one or two above this, no one has felt the need to do.

the impression i got was that pc gaming is dying, yet console gaming is not dying. at that point, i would assume that pc gamers are either not gaming anymore or (what i, apparently wrongly, inferred) are migrating to console gaming.

my thinking then went, well, pc gaming is dying, and the reason given was the lack of unique and innovative non-sequel titles, surely the consoles must be producing all sorts of these titles to be titrating gamers away from pcs. i dont personally know this to be the case, but apparently stats and marketing are showing a shift from pc to consoles for gaming, which would indicate that its not simply due to pc gamers giving up gaming altogether.

again, if pc gaming is dying (as signified by the shifting of crowds towards consoles), and as stated by numerous people in this thread, pc games themselves, and their innate lack of creativity, are the cause of this, one might logically assume that by stealing the crowd, console games are doing the things that pc games dont.

yet no one has felt the need to name console games that are so great that they're killing off the pc gaming market, except for the one guy who posted one or two above this. instead, quite oddly, your post says console games are even worse. perhaps i should go back to working on my dissertation, as this is causing me some trouble :P

early posts in this thread suggested that WoW is causing some of this. with several million subscribers putting their time and money into the game i would be inclined to think that this is having an impact on the pc gaming market, by sequestering a large chunk of gamers to one game.

again, surely there is a vast library of super awesome games on the various consoles that are drawing people away from pcs as i doubt the impact from a few mmorpgs could be enough to cause the slow death of pc gaming.

so can i get some game titles or something? perhaps ill see some that interest me, who knows.

edit: for emphasis, im not necessarily saying pc gaming is dying or not dying. what im saying is that other people are saying that it is, and giving as proof their opinion that the pc games being released are terrible and that's the cause, yet no one is giving examples of how the console market is brimming with those titles.

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And if I show you my dark side, will you still hold me tonight?
And if I open my heart to you, and show you my weak side, what would you do?
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14725070 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:36:31 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724949 C0deZer0 : I think it's not so much that we aren't seeing unique games, but that the gaming market today is like the stereotypical blonde.

Killer7 was a fantastic game that was deliberately designed the way it was for telling a deep, multi-layered story. However, not many people "got it", or had the attention span to give it proper playtime. As a result, sales for the game were tremendously ad.

On the other hand, Katamari Damacy (a game about rolling up large enough balls of stuff to create stars) was a quirky enough game to garner enough attention to gain a sequel.

Rez was a game that was symphonic and action-oriented as well... however, it was "too different" to sell well. But even now, try looking for a sealed copy of this game that goes for any less than triple-digits.
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VIA sux GC online CSS stats ATI sux FLF]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724949 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:19:57 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724888 wings10 :

said by justin

:

Poll removed because it is a stupid idea (and off topic for the forum).

And you think it is stupid. So that is your opinion.
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724888 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:11:27 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724875 wings10 : Edit. Deleted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724875 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:10:02 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724799 Karl Bode :

quote:
at this point, ill simply ask, since pc games are completely and totally lacking in innovation, and nothing more than rehashes and sequels, what are the completely novel and unique games that the console market is spewing forth onto us, the undeserving public?

You're like the fifth person to suggest that because I've criticized the state of PC gaming, that means I must consider consoles some kind of gaming nirvana.

No, Consoles are in a worse state in many regards, because they are the breeding grounds for truly inane titles geared at the lowest common denominator.

Stats show that's where the development money and customers are shifting however. I don't think I've said at any time I think that's a good thing. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724799 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:00:32 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724685 crazediamond : ok, ive somehow managed to read this entire thread instead of working (while at work).

at this point, ill simply ask, since pc games are completely and totally lacking in innovation, and nothing more than rehashes and sequels, what are the completely novel and unique games that the console market is spewing forth onto us, the undeserving public?

on tv, i see commercials for madden 200x (insert sports title), mario y (where y = anything), daxter racing (wow, a spinoff of an adventure game into racing, mario kart and crash team racing anyone)tony hawk's pro skater XXIVLLXVI etc.

i think this thread would get a better reception if we actually saw some proof of how super terrific awesome outstanding the console market is, not just like 4 people saying "i dont like these games, therefor the market is dying".
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And if I show you my dark side, will you still hold me tonight? And if I open my heart to you, and show you my weak side, what would you do? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724685 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:44:32 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724459 justin : Since I deleted the poll, and I explained WHY I deleted the poll, then I explained why it is not necessary to continue to ask why the poll was deleted, I think we can by now call this part of the topic dead and buried.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724459 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 15:13:55 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724207 wings10 :

said by justin

said by wings10

:

Your poll was removed. I wonder why?

Try to read posts above yours, before diving in to ask questions that have already been answered.
»PC Gaming Really Is Dying

Hey "BRIGHT" one. I know. That is why I posted. Wonder WHY they would delete it. This is a PC Gaming forum. I guess he should have made a poll about WOW instead. LOL.
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724207 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:35:55 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724031 Octavean : Personally, I really like the (quasi) mindless “run an gun” of FPS games. It can be a real brake from reality, an “escape” if you will, from the times in life when you really must use your brain.

I probably played more games when I was in college for this very reason.

For University Physics I, II and Modern Physics as well as a few other classes like Thermodynamics, I really had to rack my brains. I also had to find new ways to concentrate and I found that turning off ones brain, for a time, was quite helpful in gaining a new perspective on a problem.

There have been countless times when I just couldn’t see my way through to a solution and after some down time (sometimes sleeping on it or playing a game) the answer would just seem to come from nowhere.

In actuality, the brain is still working on the problem but not consciously,….its sort of doing it in the background.

Anyway, after college I played less and was more willing to play other types of games.

I remember liking the C&C line of games.

Personally I would like to see a hybridized line of games that combine FPS with other types like RPG.

In such a game you would have commanders that guide the battle from a God’s eye view much like C&C. The ground troops would receive and follow orders from the commanders to complete objectives. The ground troops would have a FPS perspective of the game.

Anyway,….

If I really want to play a game that isn’t “mindless” I’ll just play a game of chess. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14724031 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:11:20 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14723876 justin :

said by wings10

:

Your poll was removed. I wonder why?

Try to read posts above yours, before diving in to ask questions that have already been answered.
»PC Gaming Really Is Dying]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14723876 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 13:48:02 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14723010 Primis1 : RE: Karl's OP -

If what you're into is "OOHHH SHINEY!!!", PC Gaming will now dispapoint you.

If what you want is games you will play over and over and OVER again though.... PC Gaming still reigns.

I own an X-Box. Believe me, I play it, I get my money's worth out of it. I love me some Halo, I play NHL 2005 and ESPN NHL 2k5 on it a lot, I play Project Gotham 2 quite a bit.... and I love my copy of NCAA Football 2005. But most all of even the really good games on console have very short lifespans.

Flip to PC. I'm *STILL* going back and playing Rome: Total War in obssessive spurts (hours at a time per session). I *still* go back and play Call of Duty and UT. I *still* play Starcraft way more than I'm comfortable admitting in public. I still play Civ 2 *and* Civ 3, both. I've been playing EHM freeware since basically 2001. The really good games on PC are so good you don't NEED a new game every month.

Within a year, console games are dead and something else has come along. Depth is not there. With PC Games... you come back to them even years later, and there's a care and depth for them that makes them imminently more-replayable. (And that's not even considering lengthened lifespans through modding...)

And consoles haven't even come close to this kind of depth yet.

So yes, there's a change in PC Gaming. Not everything works well on the PC anymore. However, some games work far betetr on the platform still, and it offer unmatched depth that I don't see the consoles approaching for at least several generations yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14723010 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:38:05 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722910 wings10 :

said by ctceo

:

Now that we've got a good chunk of opinions lets make the official poll, and take a vote, I would guess it to be in favor of PC by about 15% or more...

»/forum/r···14720894

Your poll was removed. I wonder why?
--
Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722910 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 11:21:46 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722277 justin : Poll removed because it is a stupid idea (and off topic for the forum). What result would you expect when running a poll in the #pc games forum#

This topic is only useful if contributions remain mature and do not read as though an outraged pre teen is behind the keyboard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722277 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:45:47 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722217 TechnoScott :

said by ctceo

:

Now that we've got a good chunk of opinions lets make the official poll, and take a vote, I would guess it to be in favor of PC by about 15% or more...

»/forum/r···14720894

I think its odd the PC vs Console poll thread was removed. OBTW, consoles were getting smoked by like 50% + in the poll in case you missed it. I've said it three times now. PC games are not dying.

One more PC advantage... typical console has like 15-20 buttons on the controller. PC = 105 key keyboard that you can bind. More keys that you can bind = more control = more ownage. I'm just wishing now that game developers would write titles cross platform so I can pwn console noobs in the public servers. Now that would be fun!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722217 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:32:58 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722182 Mustang : I can't believe this thread is still going....and look...here I am helping it along...lol

Another thought to why more developers are producing for the console over the PC, no back end support. I was reminded of how much the corporate gaming world hated to support their product this week when I went looking for the Riddick patch. The official site didn't have it, nor did fileplanet or Gamespot. I ended up at fileshack.

Personally, PC gaming will never die, all the innovations start there. We are the skunkworks of gaming!!!

- How many console players go back and play classic games as much as PC users do???

- PC's will continue to take up more time in peoples lives and be a necessary tool. If its sitting in your house people will always want to play games on them.

- Most interesting thought....Consoles may have more titles but that probably means they also have more terrible games to wade through to find the good ones.

We need to stop worrying about innovative PC Games, they're like buses...all come along in a group:)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722182 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:28:51 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722141 sNaKeYeZ : Oh, to me console gaming reached its peak with the NES. I loved that darn thing. If you wanted to play a game, ya just popped in a cart and played, no "LOADING...LOADING" crap. I despise the wait time on my PS2.

PC gaming has always been my favorite, although back in the NES times the console and PC were VERY different. Two totally different genres of gaming. The NES had graphics and gameplay that the PC could never achieve at the time. I think that's the trouble today - consoles and PC games are waaaay too close as far as capabilities.

Heck, if I were a younger man today, I could buy a new Xbox and PS2 and play every game released with pleasure and buy a cheap Dell to type up my homework on at night and still come out cheaper than buying one single nice uber l33t PC gaming system.

I refuse to give up PC gaming, I'm keeping my head up with high hopes of Neverwinter Nights 2 release in January 2006. I keep my NES on the shelf above my head, along with all my accessories, games, and Nintendo Power mags, just so I can look up and smile every now and then. I do admit I tinker in NES emulation and have an original NES controller converted to USB for easy play on a PC.

Yes Karl, I'm about to turn 28, we are getting old it seems. :)
--
http://www.snakeyez.us/ - My site, complete with blog, pics, and links - check it out sometime.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722141 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:22:03 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722048 Sgtslaughtr : I dont like consoles, there are to many invisible walls and stuff you cannot do where is in PC gaming you add stuff to the game you like. I have made several mods myself but I dont share them because I never quite finish every aspect of it and dont want someone else to steal my idea's and hard work.

PC 50198578942376561340764 reasons to play
to many to list

Console 2
never have to worry about crashing oh wait, my bro's PS2 crashes all the time. Nothing ever done wrong to it either. As opposed to XP it has never crashed by itself. Now when I tried installing an old printer i bought at a yardsale, thats another story. I the first time ever i tried partitioning the HDD on my compaq right before Half-Life 2 came out.

Console 1

Turn on and play is the only good thing I can say about a console, other than that there is no reason for me to use one. I already have a dvd player and a computer, hell I have 6 computers one in the basement, my gaming box, my media center, my linux experimental box, my bros computer i built so he would leave mine alone, and one I dont use anymore cause its slower than molasses and I am gonna build another one for my garage i am about to build.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14722048 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 09:02:13 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721877 wings10 :

said by JIGA

:

Once they get consoles to support web browsing, keyboard/mice support for all games, and get the console games playing online with PC games... then I might consider buying another one again. Untill then, it is PC gaming for me.

But once consoles can do all that it pretty much is a PC. Hell, they almost are now... as far as hardware on them go.

Well they should soon. Isn't the Xbox 360 basically a PC already? I heard of folk's modding the Xbox and running Linux on it.
--
Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721877 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 08:17:47 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721596 JIGA : Once they get consoles to support web browsing, keyboard/mice support for all games, and get the console games playing online with PC games... then I might consider buying another one again. Untill then, it is PC gaming for me.

But once consoles can do all that it pretty much is a PC. Hell, they almost are now... as far as hardware on them go.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721596 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 06:55:57 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721442 brianiscool : I think you are full of hog wash!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721442 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:05:38 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721255 shudwein : Maybe some of you should drop this "console games are for kids" attitude and just play them. Since when did a console equate to children? Are there not mature games? Drop the elitist attitude and just play!

You are missing out on some great innovative and fun titles. Perhaps you need to play other genres on both PC and consoles.

You want innovation? Pick up Shadow of the Colossus or try Katamari Damacy for PS2. Look past the graphics, and just play. If you can't do that, then you'll always be stuck in the rut expecting something innovative when you yourself are not willing to change.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14721255 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 03:04:25 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14720904 ctceo : Now that we've got a good chunk of opinions lets make the official poll, and take a vote, I would guess it to be in favor of PC by about 15% or more...

»/forum/r···14720894]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14720904 Thu, 03 Nov 2005 01:05:29 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14719644 Mrq5 : Online Internet gaming was the main reason I loved pc gaming over consoles.

With Xbox Live I got it all, fast online gaming without concerns about pc upgrades. Plus I can enjoy Xbox Live on the COUCH:) All I want is Online gaming where gameplay is FAIR and competitive! Not to mention that I can play Online games together with my sons on our Xbox, this brings in a whole new level of entertainment. We have SO much fun playing sports titles and Halo together on teams using our Xbox.

Since consoles have great Online gaming now I can save $$$ on computers(video card upgrades). I built a pc around the time I bought my Xbox back in 2001. I remember spending over $300 just for the video card. Needless to say I cant use that pc to play any of the newer games. However I can still buy NEW titles for my Xbox. I now use my pc for work and console for play.

Bottom line, since consoles have online gaming I can have the same thrill for far less. I am a computer tech and feel this way! Just imagine all the non-techs who love online play but know very little about pc's.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14719644 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:56:08 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14719433 AuraReturn :

said by TechnoScott

said by AuraReturn

said by wings10

said by AuraReturn

:

For every one good game on PC, there are 10 on consoles. I am serious.

Then why hang around on a PC Gaming forum if you don't like or play PC games?

Can you prove that the ratio is 1 to 10??? I don't think you can. PCs own for games and that is the end of it. Time to lock the thread. LOL.

»pc.ign.com/reviews/index.html
»ps2.ign.com/reviews/index.html?c···der=desc

According to IGN.com, there are about 150 9.0+ games on the PC since 1998. The PS2 alone has about 140 9.0+ games since 2001. And I didn't even mention the Gamecube and Xbox 9.0+ games. You get my point.

Also, if you want to count 8.0+ plus games, don't bother. That's probably 15 to 1. Yes, I realize that these are their opinions only but they are the "experts".

You know why? Because there are WAY more console developers than PC developers. And why is that? Because there are WAY more console gamers than PC gamers.

I am not saying that PC gaming is dieing nor am I saying that PC games suck.

And to answer the main question, is PC gaming dieing? No, it's NOT dieing. However it's losing a lot of momentum to the consoles. As long as there are PCs, there will be PC gaming.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14719433 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:29:33 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717987 Anonymous :

said by BBR_InsUW

said by justin

:

maybe everyone is playing world of warcraft?

Nope not everyone, but I refuse to pay for a game and have to Pay to play it?

Same here. I hate paying $50 for a game but I only do that once in a while.

IMHO they already got more than they deserve. There is no way I would ever pay any online gaming fees.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717987 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:10:33 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717583 Jehu :

As these machines get more powerful, the time it takes to crank out a game to max out the hardware is growing. Chip makers like AMD and Intel with multicores will now need to see programs that take advantage of it. Soon, we'll likely see multicore GPUs...wow!

I think that's kind of the point.. Too much time spent on pushing high-end equipment with dazzling graphics, not enough time spent developing the actual game and gameplay.
--
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717583 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:15:36 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717552 cableties : Karl,

I kinda saw this after M$ got into the fray with the Xbox and its software (profit) license scheme.

I don't see PC gaming dying off completely. Only going into a coma for a time. For example, I thought about how video adaptor makers like ATI and nVidia make hi-end cards. The current crop of fast/GPU cards start at $400+(street). That is price for a game system. But, some hardcore gamers will drop that in a heartbeat (as will 3D'rs and renderers). Eventually, that $400+ chipset will end up in the next generation of game machine. So a company like ATI will make R&D back from the highrollers and then see profit off the old chip from mass game systems.
Same with software. The title will see PC games system IF it can benefit from the faster cards (Doom3 was written to take adavntage of a graphics card not yet on the market!). Again, Doom3 made its way down to consoles.
Granted there are some that prefer key/mouse combos. Nothing wrong with that.
One last thing, to code a great game, with phenominal graphics and gameplay and LAN (bots, custom map making tools...) takes time. As these machines get more powerful, the time it takes to crank out a game to max out the hardware is growing. Chip makers like AMD and Intel with multicores will now need to see programs that take advantage of it. Soon, we'll likely see multicore GPUs...wow!
Frag on brother...frag on!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717552 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:11:31 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717055 wings10 :

said by Karl Bode

:

I can't. Feels like I'm trying to box underwater to me.

Yes I know what you mean.
--
Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717055 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:11:50 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717033 anon : First time posting - but I thought it'd be useful to get a clarification for some of the misconceptions about console gaming from a guy who enjoys both equally.

- Console gaming has been lacking innovation for years. The number of titles that jumped from last generation to this generation without any appreciable innovations is staggering, and sequels are a dime a dozen.
- That said, I hope nobody really thinks consoles are dying. The argument that "consoles are too expensive" is bunk - people have always been hyping up console prices before launch, they will always come down in price once they mature, and plus, it's not like maintaining a PC and buying PC games is any cheaper.
- Game genres do not consist of just FPS, RTS, and MMORPG's. People sound like all consoles are good for are for inferior ports of PC games (which, admittedly, there are a few here and there), when there are a lot of console-exclusive games that are just as exciting. It's pointless to argue about how bad controlling a FPS with a controller is, just as nobody intelligent would argue that they'd rather use a keyboard/mouse combo over an analog stick for sports, racing, and fighting games.
- Similarly, not all games have to be multiplayer. I see it as a curse, not a boon, that so many of today's top PC games are only enjoyable when played with other people. What happened games like Simcity, Ultima, and Populus, where the single player was so thoroughly enjoyable because of good design? Much of today's multiplayer games' "innovations" are ways of making sure online players aren't taking advantage of each other (remember Guild Wars' claims to fame - no monthly fee, and separate instances of each area to minimize no player griefing?), rarely do they go and add great content.
- One thing that's great on consoles is the ease of hotseat multiplayer. You know that feeling when you haul your PC to the local LAN and game your heart out? You get that for free on consoles; they're made for people to sit together in a room and duke it out (or co-op, even!), and LAN party goers cannot deny the difference being of being there with your opponents/teammates.

If you get or own a PS2, check out:

- Burnout: Revenge
- God of War
- Shadow of the Colossus (I really like this one, quite innovative)

for examples of great games that'd have a hard time on the PC - not b/c the PC lacks the hardware, but b/c these games are suited for being played in front of a big TV, on the couch w/ friends, with a controller. It just seems like people on this forum just need to realize that there exists more than just online fragfests and that many (actually, probably the majority of) gamers who are driving the industry revenue-wise - thus promoting more quality and innovative content - enjoy many other genres and types of games, a large number of which are available on consoles.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717033 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:08:42 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717017 Karl Bode : I can't. Feels like I'm trying to box underwater to me.

Though I do prefer the controller for racing, sports, and fighting games....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14717017 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:05:58 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716946 wings10 : Consoles do need to support mice and keyboard control. I don't know how people can play FPS with does darn controllers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716946 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:57:19 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716899 Karl Bode :

quote:
My gut feeling is that within a short amount of time, the larger publishers are going to look at how many platforms they publish games for, and strategically cut the lowest-producing. PC gaming is "endangered" from my point of view, but it's not time to nail the coffin shut by any means. There are too many genres which still sell (MMOG, FPS, RTS) which don't port well to the consoles yet. When they do, then I think we'll have to worry.

I agree with that. I think two things need to happen:

Flat-screens need to come down in price, and Consoles and console games need to natively support mice and keyboard control.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716899 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:51:13 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716768 Minvaren : (old fart)I've been PC and console gaming since 1982. (/old fart)

This year I've bought (and enjoyed) : KoToR2 and NFS:U2. Both of these games were available on consoles. I plan on getting NFS:Most Wanted when it releases later this year - it'll be available on consoles as well.

Most kids I've run into nowadays (thanks to friends with large families) are much more console-centric than PC-centric. They web-surf, IM, and do homework on the PC. They play games on their consoles.

My gut feeling is that within a short amount of time, the larger publishers are going to look at how many platforms they publish games for, and strategically cut the lowest-producing. PC gaming is "endangered" from my point of view, but it's not time to nail the coffin shut by any means. There are too many genres which still sell (MMOG, FPS, RTS) which don't port well to the consoles yet. When they do, then I think we'll have to worry.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716768 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:34:22 EDT Fighting a shrinking market... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716324 anon : If you look at the ads on techtv and the market for games recently you see the industry struggling with the fact that too few developers are coming out with great ideas for games and the industry forced consolidation upon itself to survive the last 10 or so years. What you have is a vested insterest group namely console manufacturers who breathe life into the content--must develop or die.. The PC industry can fall back on telecommunications, application software and a vast library of oldies, but goodies, while $100-500 consoles must develop to survive and justify out of sight hardware/software--game price$.
The industry really did it to itself, and will pay the consequences in terms of lost revenue, but this is also part of a cycle that development peaks every 10 years or so and dies down to refocus on a new generation of gamer (namely 12-24 year old white male demographic).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14716324 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:37:34 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715529 wings10 :

said by Karl Bode

quote:

One more time, this isn't court, it's a message board. Personal opinion is all there is, and I think I've supported mine well.
Some of you are getting defensive and hostile. Try to focus on my points, not attack me personally.

Fair enough.
--
Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715529 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:01:14 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715350 anon : I have no experience of console gaming since the snes. Is there so much more gameplay innovation in console gaming?

I wonder if part of your problem Karl isn't that multiplayer gaming tends to permanently ruin the pleasure of single player gaming. It is hard to go back to the limitations of playing in a world entirely created and run by an idiotic computer once you have played against human beings. Since my fixation with tfc for hl1 I have never been able to take the same satisfaction in single player games.

I think the problem is two fold. One is the business model, as others have stated, is borked and mimics the hollywood model. It is risk averse and is pushing out the small team garage development that drove innovation.
The other is technological. Computing power is increasing but we are still light years away from the orders of magnitude growth that would be needed to create truly living massive worlds with AI "smart" and flexible enough to be able to free us from a linear experience with event triggering that has to be a part of games. The technology simply isn't there to be able to allow the human player real freedom within the game world. The computer is too stupid to be able to deal with that in any way that humans wouldn't view as non-sensical. Pretty graphics is an easier nut to crack, so that is where the focus is.
Flight sims used to be a fixation of mine, but the technology just isn't there to advance them much further. Until the interface issues can be transcended to create more realistic situational awareness and feedback and there is the power to create orders of magnitude more polygons for truly rich and reactive/alterable environments it will be same old same old.
So too with number of npc. I remember how giddy I felt in operation flashpoint during one of the rushes where there were dozens of characters on the screen. It felt like something new(and flashpoint was a very original gaming experience within its tech limits) but of course that number had to drastically diminish once the battle actually ensued. It just isn't possible, with present tech, to have hundreds of characters actually behaving in individual and realistic ways, especially if the player is given tactical freedom.
This is the stumbling block that will keep games like call of duty from advancing. The are able to simulate the feel of a larger scale battle but they can't actually create a large battle, with many npcs and a wide open battlefield where the player has complete freedom. So you get the tunnel like experience of a moh beach scene or the cod stalingrad scene.

I've blathered on long enough for the moment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715350 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:38:07 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715320 Jehu :

quote:

Kind of like George Lucas filling his new movies with so much eye-candy because he now CAN, forgetting that it was character that made his original movies so endearing.

so true...so true.
--
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715320 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:33:41 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715251 Karl Bode :

quote:
It took Gary's mod to make a ho-hum (although very pretty) FPS into a imagination-inducing sandbox game.

Funny, I agree 100%, and if there's something that will keep PC gaming alive (at least as a niche hobby) it's the open-ness of the platform, something Sony and Microsoft surely aren't going to fully embrace on consoles.

Though they'll do their best to pretend (plug your PSP in the front of the Xbox, whoopie! Create your own skate park!)

quote:
The PC game design emphasis seems to be stuck on "let's make it prettier and more graphics-intensive" mode rather than true innovation.

Maybe there's some hope that once we reach photo-realism, and the Great Graphics Card Race (TM) slows or ends, we can get back to real content.

Kind of like George Lucas filling his new movies with so much eye-candy because he now CAN, forgetting that it was character that made his original movies so endearing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715251 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:27:37 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715221 Jehu : Some things I have noticed:

Seems the most talented, imaginative designers out there are attracted to consoles these days. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons for this, but now the freshest games on PC are ports from consoles now (GTA, Xmen Legends 2, etc.).

It took Gary's mod to make a ho-hum (although very pretty) FPS into a imagination-inducing sandbox game.

The PC game design emphasis seems to be stuck on "let's make it prettier and more graphics-intensive" mode rather than true innovation.

Also there's too much emphasis on online, multi-player, and not enough focus on creating engaging single-player content.

Thanks to piracy™, I suspect many PC game developers/publishers get monetary support from the video card makers, who want them to focus on pushing polygons further so that die-hard pc gamers will feel compelled to get the latest, over-priced card to run the latest game with "maxed-out" settings.

In my opinion.
--

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715221 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:23:02 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715188 m4jor_p41n : Karl,
I see your point and the vision you have about gaming on a 50in plasma in your living room etc... On the contrary, I think it is the console that is evolving more towards a pc, to mimick the gaming power that a pc can offer. Sort of like a hybrid console/pc combo. While pc design will become more sleeker and compact like a laptop, except with the processing power of your desktop. With this portability, you can play your favorite "pc" games in your living room on the 50in plasma and don't have to dread luggin it around to your next LAN party :-)

I don't think pc gaming will die completely. Who knows, it will be interesting to see...but as long as a PC exist, there will be pc games developed and there will be pc gamer.

Even these days, my two teenage boys hardly ever touch their xbox/ps2 console, once they saw what PC gaming was all about. Majority of gaming is done on the pc in this house :-)
--
My goal is to accumulate as many DSLR points as I can and sell them on EBAY.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715188 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:19:11 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715007 Karl Bode :

quote:
Interesting...you make all these assorted claims about recent pc games (none supported by fact just your personal opinion

One more time, this isn't court, it's a message board. Personal opinion is all there is, and I think I've supported mine well.

quote:
Kinda silly to mod a board that you have no interest in or taste for

I've been playing PC games since the Apple 2e, and still love them. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother complaining that I think the quality and innovation of recent releases are in the toilet.

I've probably played every major release on PC since the Oregon trail. You probably won't find a more rabid PC gaming fan than me. Yes, I spend a ton of money on the hobby.

Some of you are getting defensive and hostile. Try to focus on my points, not attack me personally.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14715007 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:54:52 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714884 dj_figgy : Interesting...you make all these assorted claims about recent pc games (none supported by fact just your personal opinion that it's all dying, doom and gloom, etc etc), yet you claim to have bought all 5 pc games (recent releases) that you mentioned. Now if pc gaming so horrible and evil and only us little lame brain peon's purchase them, when why do you seem to know about all the recent releases? Kinda silly to mod a board that you have no interest in or taste for (remember, it's all garbage!).

Now who in their right mind would go out and pay an estimated $250 bucks on PC games (5 games at $50 a piece, remember...you claim to have bought them all!!)...if you already had this revelation that it was "in the garbage".

"And I'm one of three full time Broadband Reports employees and mod this forum, so I'm afraid you're stuck with me"

Oh...that's a great attitude you have there. Way to turn people away. A holier than now attitude...that makes me cringe. Great to know where my premium membership fee is going........]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714884 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:37:38 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714789 JIGA :

said by Karl Bode

:

My complaint was innovation and a lack of quality titles for PC.

Look at the titles you just listed. One (BF2:SF) is just an expansion pack. One (Team Fortress 2) is absolute vaporware.

That leaves 4 PC games you're interested in out of a year of releases, two of which are sequels, and none of which are offering up any original idead. Doesn't that make my point more than disprove it?

An expansion pack I am looking forward to.
TF2 was can always hope, I mean, why not. Now that HL2 is released, CSS, DODS, can you honestly say it will NEVER be released?
Whats wrong with sequels? Are all movie sequels bad and boring?

Original ideas are far and few these days. Console+PC gaming has been going on for what... 25+ years now. How many original ideas are left. What new innovative and original idea can you come up with, create, and have a stable working game for all PC systems with a budget and time constraint.

All of what you say is your opinion, which you are entitled to. What you may dislike another person may love. Just because you don't like any of the current or upcoming games on the market is far from meaning PC gaming is dying.

When I see 20 people playing CS, 100 playing Hl2, 50 playing BF2, 15 playing BF1942, and every other game with absolutely 0, then PC gaming is officially dead.

The problem lies within you, you are bored.
With the number of gamers we have online, PC gaming if FAR from dying.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714789 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:23:20 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714785 justin : The problem with pc gaming is a lack of depth in titles. Once you get past the a list (which as karl says is very 2001), everything else is d list. Consoles support b c and d list titles I think because they are easier to develop for so an innovative idea can make money as a niche title. On a pc it would never make a profit if it also is good enough to run on different hardware.. That, plus, the piracy scene is strong on pcs which sucks money out from the b list titles.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714785 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:23:00 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714773 SteelersFan : The timing of this topic really hit home. Just recently I re-installed Baldur's Gate II (added a few of the Mods) and will begin campaigning again. Why? Because the rest of the stuff out there fails to keep my interest. Having been an 8-bit gamer myself (ala Atari 400 and Odyessy to name a few) I now find myself either not having a lot of time on my hands or maybe my interests have matured. Whatever the case, the games nowadays seem to be more directed towards teenagers and maybe even some younger kids. It's hard to say what would perk my interest again in the gaming world, but I'm sure I'll know it when I see it. Problem is nothing groundbreaking or revolutionary seems to be on the horizon. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714773 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:20:58 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714728 NJChris :

said by Karl Bode

But it's all opinion. What you may not like may be someone else's favorite. You may not like an expansion pack but someone else may be drooling over it.

Honestly, in all of gaming, most things coming out for PC and consoles are sequels or more of the same. That doesn't mean we can't have fun. If you don't, then that's your opinion/tastes. Others may share that, and some others will not. In my opinion, the only expansion of creativity I see lately is for the Nintendo DS. Yes, I still have fun with the other platforms (PC included).
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I know you're talking, but all I hear is Blah Blah Blah...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714728 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:14:33 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714671 Karl Bode : My complaint was innovation and a lack of quality titles for PC.

Look at the titles you just listed. One (BF2:SF) is just an expansion pack. One (Team Fortress 2) is absolute vaporware.

That leaves 4 PC games you're interested in out of a year of releases, two of which are sequels, and none of which are offering up any original idead. Doesn't that make my point more than disprove it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714671 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:07:36 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714615 JIGA :

said by Karl Bode

:

Look through this EBGames release list for PC Games for the next year, and tell me how many absolutely must-have games you find:

»www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/p···oftens=1

Just because it is a game that is not a must-have for you does not mean it is a bad game. It is your opinion that these games suck or however you want to put it.

As for me, these are the titles I look forward to.
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
BF2:SF
TF2
DDO
Star Wars Empire at War
Ghost Recon: AW

Consoles are just boring for me these days. Thats why I sold my PS2 and Xbox, they just sat there collecting dust. I can do much more with a PC game and a PC than a console.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714615 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:58:37 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714283 cork1958 : Is it really dying? Was it ever alive? Not on any of my systems it wasn't!! What a waste of a system, IMHO!! :o
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Spread Free Opera. Fastest browser on Earth or in Cyberspace!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714283 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:11:20 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714169 Karl Bode :

quote:
Why don't you go mod a Xbox or PS2 forum? Kinda funny that your at a PC forum but don't like PC games.

Don't get all huffy. I love PC games. I wouldn't bother bitching, otherwise.

And I'm one of three full time Broadband Reports employees and mod this forum, so I'm afraid you're stuck with me.

Because I'm ragging on the state of PC gaming doesn't mean I have any great love for console gaming. I think Japana-RPG's are the most inane, bizarre, mindless titles on the planet, and I'm so bored with action-platformers I could spit.

quote:
The PC will NEVER NEVER die. Or PC Games for that matter.

I used to think that too. Now I think the ultimate evolution is a fiber connection to a home-server in the basement, off of which a bunch of dumb terminals, laptops and other devices connect, with your living room being the gaming hub dominated by very closed systems developed by Microsoft and Sony Corporation - with scattered hobbyists still tinkering with modular home-cooked living room PC's of their own.

I simply think it's inevitable. PC gaming will never completely die because there will always be indie niche developers, but if everyone's using laptops/cellphones/pdas for work it eliminates the expensive bulky PC as a home-office tool.

Once you do that, and gaming shifts to the living room massive plasma display and 7.1 surround system....well.....your little laptop no longer competes.

I think some of the blame falls on the laps of PC hardware developers. $600 graphics cards? New Physics specific cards? Charging $200 for a sound card whose fundamental build-quality hasn't really improved dramatically in half a decade? They've made PC gaming a rich-man's (or spoiled kids) sport.

So I don't think PC gaming will die as much as it will merge with consoles. (already seeing it with Microsoft Xbox 360 controllers that work on both).

That said, I still think the state of PC game development is in the garbage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714169 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:51:46 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714121 wings10 :

said by Karl Bode

:

Uh, your list of great coming PC titles from the EBGames release calendar consists of such gems as a Galaxies rehash starter pack ( a game just cancelled in Japan because it sucks), a handful of obscure strategy titles nobody is excited about, and some expansion packs? Sorry, I don't see that as evidence that PC gaming isn't experiencing it's worst year(s) ever....

That is your opinion. And that is fine. Why don't you go mod a Xbox or PS2 forum? Kinda funny that your at a PC forum but don't like PC games. I for one like PC's over spending hundreds of dollars over game consoles. That is my opinion. The PC will NEVER NEVER die. Or PC Games for that matter. Making posts that say it is is just plain silly. Go play console games because you can't afford a good PC. That is ok just don't use the excuse that PC gaming is dead.

If so then resign from the PC forums.
--
Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714121 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:42:12 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714063 albie81 : i stopped console gaming after the PS One... i had an Atari and then a Nintendo as a kid in the 80s... i had a Sega Genesis, a Super Nintendo, and then a Playstation... after that i got in PCs, and started gaming solely there since.

i became a huge fan of the RPG with the Final Fantasy games on Playstation, and looked for that when i started PC games.... then, late 90s... i hit EverQuest... my first MMO... it sealed the fact that i would never go back to console gaming ever again. Console gaming feels so dead. Unless you are playing a game that lets you link up with other players, like Halo... it's so pointless, because you are playing about a scripted path by a designer, with no room for variation... no human interaction... it's all NPCs.

now i am headlong thrust into the world of Paragon... playing City of Heroes, and newly released City of Villains. it's a great MMO, that no console can even touch.

regardless of what consoles do, they can't touch the MMO realm.
--
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0Ghz MSI K7N2 Delta LSR nForce 2 MSI Radeon 9600Pro - 128mb 1gb (2x512) Corsair PC3200 40gb 7200rpm Seagate Baracuda Lite-On CD-RW Aspire X-Dreamer Case Thermaltake Purepower 420w Thermaltake Silent Boost]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714063 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:34:40 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714007 Karl Bode : Good post.

Yes, I liked Rome: Total War and Swat 4 as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714007 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:24:47 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714003 VikingStorm : Question, what exactly great console game has there been out recently?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14714003 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:24:25 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713997 TigerLord : Who wants to play a shooter with controller ? There is no way you'll kill me at BF2, Halo or whatever the game is if I have my trusted G7 and my keyboard and you are on a controller.

That reason alone's good for me. :)
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"Hello, my name is Chandler and I make jokes when I'm uncomfortable!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713997 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:23:30 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713990 Karl Bode : Uh, your list of great coming PC titles from the EBGames release calendar consists of such gems as a Galaxies rehash starter pack ( a game just cancelled in Japan because it sucks), a handful of obscure strategy titles nobody is excited about, and some expansion packs? Sorry, I don't see that as evidence that PC gaming isn't experiencing it's worst year(s) ever....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713990 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:21:54 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713140 Rogue Wolf :

said by TechnoScott

said by AuraReturn

said by wings10

said by AuraReturn

:

For every one good game on PC, there are 10 on consoles. I am serious.

Then why hang around on a PC Gaming forum if you don't like or play PC games?

Can you prove that the ratio is 1 to 10??? I don't think you can. PCs own for games and that is the end of it. Time to lock the thread. LOL.

"Your arbitrary argument doesn't hold water. My arbitrary argument is correct and accepted as truth. This ends the discussion as I am obviously right."

You do realize this is ALL a matter of opinion, right?
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Non impediti ratione cogitationis. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713140 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 03:18:46 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713115 Augustus III :

said by Swany1012

said by Augustus III

said by Karl Bode

:

Look through this EBGames release list for PC Games for the next year, and tell me how many absolutely must-have games you find:

»www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/p···oftens=1

Well then dont even post on the forum, apparently ur a picky game player. when millions are playing a game that u hate, maybe ur the one with the problem. (console fanboy)

oh please kid.. console boy? my only console was an atari, junior and that was before you were conceived.

you are the example why WoW sucks. arrogant fanboys.

oh and you know what.. i am picky because it's my money. when you earn enough to move out of your bedroom you can be picky too. meanwhile, i suppose you are stuck with whatever you are given. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14713115 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 03:01:43 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712997 Mr Dresden :

said by vd853

:

What do people have such a negative point of view on everything that's apparently good? Sure developers can add more innovation, but they are only limited to currently available hardware, and not everyone have the high-end stuff. I think FEAR and Q4 is pretty good.. and they do have innovations to some degree, and HL2 is full of innovation for sure. Alright, I don't play WOW, but I'm sure Blizzard must be doing something right with all those subscribers. If you want something different, stop playing games until the PS3 comes out.

Blizzard merely took a brand-name game like Warcraft and re-designed it so that it would function like a typical massively multiplayer online role-playing game. They didn’t do anything groundbreaking with World of Warcraft, but they did manage to enhance the MMORPG genre marginally. With all that said... World of Warcraft is definitely the best MMORPG release to date. :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712997 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 02:07:48 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712956 TechnoScott :

said by AuraReturn

said by wings10

said by AuraReturn

:

For every one good game on PC, there are 10 on consoles. I am serious.

Then why hang around on a PC Gaming forum if you don't like or play PC games?

Can you prove that the ratio is 1 to 10??? I don't think you can. PCs own for games and that is the end of it. Time to lock the thread. LOL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712956 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:51:51 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712929 AuraReturn :

said by wings10

said by AuraReturn

:

For every one good game on PC, there are 10 on consoles. I am serious.

Then why hang around on a PC Gaming forum if you don't like or play PC games?

Who said I don't like or play PC games? My favorite game of all time is on the PC but I have many more favorites on the consoles. And Who said I hang around this forum? That was my first post in any gaming forums in a while.

There is literally a 1 to 10 ratio between good games for PC and good games for consoles.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712929 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:41:37 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712887 vd853 : What do people have such a negative point of view on everything that's apparently good? Sure developers can add more innovation, but they are only limited to currently available hardware, and not everyone have the high-end stuff. I think FEAR and Q4 is pretty good.. and they do have innovations to some degree, and HL2 is full of innovation for sure. Alright, I don't play WOW, but I'm sure Blizzard must be doing something right with all those subscribers. If you want something different, stop playing games until the PS3 comes out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712887 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:29:59 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712826 Swany1012 :

said by Augustus III

said by Karl Bode

:

Look through this EBGames release list for PC Games for the next year, and tell me how many absolutely must-have games you find:

»www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/p···oftens=1

Well then dont even post on the forum, apparently ur a picky game player. when millions are playing a game that u hate, maybe ur the one with the problem. (console fanboy)
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Cruising With Verizon DSL 1.5/384 and Opera 9 BETA]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712826 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:09:39 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712769 Augustus III :

said by Karl Bode

:

Look through this EBGames release list for PC Games for the next year, and tell me how many absolutely must-have games you find:

»www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/p···oftens=1

absolute? 0. possible? 1.

i was going to get BF2 but i refuse to suffer with punkbuster and EA has been generally pissing me off for the past year (pre game cinematics you can't skip, anarchaic menus, annoying voices etc)

I hated fear. Yes i am probably the only guy.

WOW is as retarded as W3. point, click, repeat. over and over and pretend it is fun just because 4.5 million other people are doing it.

all sports titles are just a console port and feel terrible. i haven't bothered with those in a while

the sims2 had promise, but they stripped the game off everything so they can shove 4000 expansion packs down our throats (here we go again with EA..). not to mention the horrible lag with a full house. The city areas still feel horrible.. there is no flow and it shows they didn't work on those at all. oh and the game is too politically correct to be fun.. so.. i want to starve my kids.. let me. seriously.. anyway, i played that for about 2 months.

black and white 2.. a failure. a miserable failure. no more needs to be said about that one.

HL2... right.. i swear one more gravity gun puzzle and i would.. well i can't since valve does not accept refunds for online purchases. now i just play CS now and then. on the whole, HL was a disappointment. weak story, run shoot, gravity gun, run shoot, gravity gun, gravity gun, boat, gravity gun, more gravity gun... repeat 30000 times. game over. oh there's the gman.. wait another 7 years for more of him.... i'll die of old age before i know who he is. but again, there is no story so it doesn't matter.

recent games i liked:

emergency 3. closest thing you can get to play 911 with. a nice european title.

singles 1 and now singles 2. although they added censorship in 2 (or at least in the version for NA). quite addictive because it lacks the cartoonish feel of the sims.

painkiller. ok pure old fun although the drustrating boses at the end of each level turned me away. however impaling things with the stakebow was great.

gta sa. i never completed the annoying missions. i am sorry that i still can't refuse to follow a mission and slap the stupid characters that send me on suicide trips for nothing. however the open ended gameplay was worth a few weeks of joy.

18 wheels of steel series.. trucks. yes, finally. trucks are good. the game is good and for only 20$.

rome: TW. and interesting game but after a few battles it got very boring. it just never ended. i just gather a supreme force and hit the auto resolve button now. i have a few more provinces to take and i can essentially beat the game. though i have to say, i like being caesar..

swat 4. the obvious stupidity of the team aside, i like that game. although movement feels like it's in slow motion.

FS2004. i am an old time simmer and will always fly the virtual skies, even when gas hits 6/gallon. heh

lemonade tycoon 2.. fun small game, can play in the background while doing everything else.

and some chess games for when all of the above get boring. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712769 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:54:59 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712642 Dread :

said by AuraReturn

:

For every one good game on PC, there are 10 on consoles. I am serious.

Con
much more fun to play on a giant tv with friends
I started getting bored of pc games lately, I haven't picked up anything since Hl2]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712642 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:27:20 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712638 C0deZer0 : Another thing that is also aggravating as hell on both sides is hardware reliability. Nobody likes to spend money on a product - whether it's $10 or $1000 or more - that you can't trust would run "forever"; by forever, meaning at least until it's far outlived its perceived or real usefulness.

Sadly, unreliable hardware or drivers tends to ruin computer gaming experience a lot more often than on console hardware. But that's not to say that Sony's more than made its fair share. I've yet to meet a single person that could say that they have a playstation that's even over a year old that is still 100% functional, without needing *SOME*thing to keep it that way.

As it is right now, I am technically on my fifth 9800Pro, and from what it looks like (as far as the P/N number goes), this one seems to be either a refurb, or just the same one I sent out, "polished" and shined up so it looks new.
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VIA sux GC online CSS stats ATI sux FLF]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712638 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:27:04 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712616 markopoleo : Well technically Console games are dying, since they are turning into PCs..

PC games will continue to exist, in fact there was a article on CNN a bit back about how PC gaming sales have increased every year since 2001. Thats hardly dying.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712616 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:21:30 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712591 Dandy : In terms of innovation is not just the PC, there console games have has almost suffer the same problem. The problem can be compared to the movie industry, games are getting more and more expensive to make, and taking longer and longer to develop. Companies are until willing to risk it on a new idea unless your someone like Will Wright or Peter Molyneux, when they could just do the same old tried and true ways get the safe cash.
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"Don't ask me I don't know anything, I am a product of the American Education system. I also make poor-quality cars and crappy electronics."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712591 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:17:48 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712536 LaZ3R : I still have to side with Karl on this one. I don't see any new games coming out with UNIQUE gameplay features... it's all been done over and over and more than half these games are stupid (stupid meaning not worth making a game on... Cough, LAW AND ORDER... APPRENTICE, seriously guys, do you really want to play every game that is a remake of a TV show?) or becoming really old.

I know there's a FEW interesting looking games coming out soon which is at least nice to know, but a lot of companies are running out of ideas and fast which is really scary, so they just resort to try and making cash the good old "remake the game and add a hat" way like "The Sims" for example... OHH MY GAWDD, THIS VERSION IS GONNA BE THE BESTEST CAUSE IT HAS SEASON EFFECTS WHERE IT SNOWS AND RAINS !! COOOOOOL, $50 DOWN THE DRAIN MOMMY!!! :huh:
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Life is a game of blackjack. You keep playing until you bust.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712536 Wed, 02 Nov 2005 00:06:55 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712421 wings10 :

said by TechnoScott

said by tim_k

:

I'm not going to read through six pages of replies to see if this was said.....I've been seeing the 'death of PC gaming' mentioned at least since the Atari ST days. The computer gaming rags all had a story on it from time to time. It goes through its ups and downs just like anything else.

Exactly, and its not dying. Sheesh.

Correct.
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712421 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 23:45:54 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712412 wings10 :

said by AuraReturn

:

For every one good game on PC, there are 10 on consoles. I am serious.

Then why hang around on a PC Gaming forum if you don't like or play PC games?
--
Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712412 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 23:44:44 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712347 AuraReturn : For every one good game on PC, there are 10 on consoles. I am serious. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712347 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 23:30:44 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712294 Swany1012 : lol i cant believe this topic even got this big. its not "dying." last year was one of the greatest years for pc games. Half life 2, doom 3, etc. And guess what, people are still playing the games. the top developers cant make a amazing game in 1 year.

Look at CS 1.6. IT still is one of the most popular games out there.

Some one said call of duty 2 isnt innovative. ever heard this quote "If it aint broke, dont fix it."
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Cruising With Verizon DSL 1.5/384 and Opera 9 BETA]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14712294 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 23:22:19 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14711905 wings10 :

said by LaZ3R

:

SHREK SUPERSLAM !!!!
LOL...
WOW Ahahahahahahahahhaha

I think the HL2:Aftermath guide will make more sales than the GAMES on that page :D

There are 9 pages of coming releases. Almost 100 games. He just linked to page one. You can change it to display 75 games on 1 page instead of 12 that the link shows.
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14711905 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:28:27 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14711870 wings10 :

said by Karl Bode

:

What great titles would those be? Harry Potter? Midway arcade treasures volume 74? Big Game hunter 8?

said by tim_k

Exactly, and its not dying. Sheesh.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14711802 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:16:52 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14711511 tim_k : I'm not going to read through six pages of replies to see if this was said.....I've been seeing the 'death of PC gaming' mentioned at least since the Atari ST days. The computer gaming rags all had a story on it from time to time. It goes through its ups and downs just like anything else.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14711511 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 21:40:22 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710969 LaZ3R : SHREK SUPERSLAM !!!!

LOL...
WOW Ahahahahahahahahhaha

I think the HL2:Aftermath guide will make more sales than the GAMES on that page :D
--
Life is a game of blackjack. You keep playing until you bust.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710969 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:41:12 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710868 Karl Bode : What great titles would those be? Harry Potter? Midway arcade treasures volume 74? Big Game hunter 8?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710868 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:30:12 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710840 wings10 : Some great titles. Too bad I don't have the time to play all these games.
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Live Well,Laugh Often,Love Much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710840 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:27:17 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710814 Karl Bode : Look through this EBGames release list for PC Games for the next year, and tell me how many absolutely must-have games you find:

»www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/p···oftens=1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14710814 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:24:08 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709625 Karl Bode : Yes for Every WOW there's about ten Anarchy Onlines....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709625 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 18:01:00 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709606 Nightfall :

said by FishPants

Sure there are large costs, but don't fool yourself.. There's a reason companies are climbing over each other to have the best MMO out there. I loved WoW myself, just no time to play it (and actually accomplish anything) anymore.
[/BQUOTE :

I agree. The more people you have, you will end up making money in the long run. No one knows how much WoW is raking in after you factor in all the costs involved. I am just saying they aren't making money hand over fist. Especially the smaller MMOs out there which are struggling to make ends meet.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709606 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:58:14 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709586 LaZ3R : Well then tell us what your username is so we can make fun of you for not even reading the main title of this thread. It's a good news-worthy topic and since we are all on-topic about PC GAMES seem to be on the decline, I don't see whats wrong with a civil argument in a forum.

Karl by the way is... well, among the highest members of the site so telling him to get the f*** off this forum won't help you. So yes, what is your real username anyways :)
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Life is a game of blackjack. You keep playing until you bust.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709586 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:55:56 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709432 anon : Dude, no one said anything about innovation... you said it was dying.. loser.. Its not dying. Gawd, go buy a console and get the f off this forum. This is the PC Games forum... not the PC Games suck I love console forum. And I am anon because I am at work... not because I am hiding from you all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709432 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:37:18 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709319 Karl Bode : 90,000 people currently playing a six year old title is supposed to indicate PC gaming isn't suffering from innovation retardation?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709319 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:25:15 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709173 rob_in_chatt : if you really think PC games are takign a dive, perhaps you need to check out steam's website. this link tracks all games on the steam network and here is the results. »steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html
look at that and tell me PC games are dying. and this is just steam......no BF2 or WoW or SWG or any other title.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14709173 Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:08:26 EDT Re: PC Gaming Really Is Dying http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14708841 AstaLaVista4 :

said by TechnoScott

I agree, although I can make an exception for Halo.

I own you with a keyboard and mouse.