Re: It'll never work in

Re: It'll never work in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r14594112 en Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:49:07 EDT Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:49:07 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14606637 Jeffrey :

said by Dr Demento

said by Jeffrey

said by Dr Demento

:

And as a former OOL user myself, since I am in PA now I can tell you that I usually got 9/900 out of my 10/1 connection with virtually no downtime. And for people that are having problems on OOL are either on a really crowded node, which is seems apparent since you're in Long Island, you were truly downloading to much or just one of those victims of circumstance.

P.S: A crowded Node or server can happen on any ISP or connection medium. It could even happen on Fios if Verizon ever mismanages it.;)

And to anyone who said cable is the weaker link, yours is still weaker than the guy appointed to manage an OC-48, do you feel comfy now?:uhh:

I also got roughly 9/1 out of my OOL connection from 1999 through 2003. After 2003, it got steadily worse.

I don't buy the argument "downloading too much". That's a weak, catch-all phrase that depends upon opinion, and in no way can that be used to describe general degredation of a service for 2 years.

You're just jealous because you don't have Fios. ;)

You pretty much confirmed on what I have stated. Your connection got steadily worse as more people signed up in your area. Since FIOS basically works on the same principle but with less, but larger nodes how can't Verizon guarantee the same thing might happen?

I'm not jealous of your connection, I am just current satisfied with mine. However, if Verizon FIOS becomes available in my area and is being offered a better price not to mention better packaging for their TV service then I will give it a try. :)

I'm sorry but like others say, it isn't only about the bandwidth.

No, I didn't say that it got worse as more people signed up in my area. I can't quantify that because I don't know who/what makes up my node, and I don't know the net # of subcribers in 2005 as opposed to 1999. I have no idea if my service degraded because of node congestion. What I do know is that repeated attempts to get technicians out here to address problems the phone-techs saw did little. They would get here, find nothing wrong, and leave after tightening some bolts.

What I said was that my overall service got worse from 2003 on; Usenet, email, web browsing, download speeds. After being presented with a nice alternative, I acted on it.

As for the future, I think Verizon has the ability to throw much more money into their system then CV can throw into their own, which is why, for the long-term, my money is on Verizon.

Not to say that CV's product is a bad one, it's not. I still post here to help others, or to see the goings-on. I just don't think CV can compete with Verizon in the long-run.

--
"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your forsight becomes a nimble vagrant."

Wikipedia]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14606637 Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:08:22 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14605758 Dr Demento :

said by Jeffrey

said by Dr Demento

said by oliphant

:

Cable's topology lends itself to costly bottlenecks in the field so they cap or have tons of trouble when they try to offer their dense subscriber areas 10Mb+ service.

That's a little harsh! I prefer to think of their subscribers as misinformed or perhaps ignorant ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14596871 Mon, 17 Oct 2005 12:48:39 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14594183 BosstonesOwn :

said by djrobx

quote:
Answer these 2 questions. How much throughput per channel on cable nodes and how much per channel on fiber ?

Well, on a 800mhz system, there's 133 6mhz channels. At QAM256, that's 38mbps per channel, or 5054mbps per fiber node shared amongst everyone connected to it.

At the moment 70-90 of those channels are being used by analog cable on most systems. And of course all the digital cable and HDTV channels. Can you see why they want to switch everybody to all digital now? That analog cable takes up an enormous amount of their available bandwidth.

Bottom line, there's really an enormous amount of bandwidth that can be pumped through coax. It's just a matter of management.

While I agree I must say that that is the problem they are packing channels. 38 megs per channel and a whole city using that channel. Or even a whole node using that channel.

FIOS 622 mbps per channel. You see my point I hope by this time. But I will keep going. 32 Users per channel, not a whole city. Less shared means less likely that little johnny can completely suck down the bandwidth if him and his friend decide to fire up bit torrent with 20 mbit links.

In order for cable to sustain 20 mbit + links. They are going to need a major addition of line cards. Then they have to dole out 5 or 6 people to each channel. Can that even be done with some sort of reliability ? Docsis standards with other technologies may help but there is less likely that fiber will be bogged down.

Then we are still down to the slowest part of the last mile being our cap. In this case for cable the channel per node and for Fiber the amount of money they want to spend on thier equipment
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14594183 Mon, 17 Oct 2005 00:06:00 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14594112 SirXILE :

said by nixen

said by SirXILE

said by click_310

said by TKJunkMail

:

teenage video porn downloaders.

Please stop using stereotypes! I download porn all the time and am not a teenager. :p

Agreed. Even though I have girlfriends. I still download and look at them. :)

Heck, sometimes it's good to have downloadable nudie or porn pix of your real life SOs.

-tom

I completely CnC! :D
--
There can only be one..."X.I.L.E"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14594112 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:54:29 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14593814 nixen :

said by SirXILE

said by click_310

said by TKJunkMail

:

teenage video porn downloaders.

Please stop using stereotypes! I download porn all the time and am not a teenager. :p

Agreed. Even though I have girlfriends. I still download and look at them. :)

Heck, sometimes it's good to have downloadable nudie or porn pix of your real life SOs.

-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14593814 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 23:04:41 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592815 Kylemaul : Agreed! Let the new broadband wars be over lowest LATENCY!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592815 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:23:16 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592587 Tzale :
said by Time :

said by Rob A :

No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.

Just because FiOS is fiber, doesn't mean there is an unlimited amount of bandwidth. Verizon can't just "flip a switch" without gaining more bandwidth from their end, it's common sense. FiOS is still a shared source, just like cable.

For the most part cable can't compete with FIOS. FIOS can handle multi-gigabit networks, the problem is the cost of peering with the actual internet, that is why we only see 15/2 in 2005 and not 1500/200 like in the future.

-Tzale
--
Was ich nicht weiß, macht mich nicht heiß. ~*~ Keep learning because knowledge is the key to power. ~*~ Czego Jaś się nie nauczy, tego Jan nie będzie umiał. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592587 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:38:50 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592210 djrobx :
quote:
Answer these 2 questions. How much throughput per channel on cable nodes and how much per channel on fiber ?
Well, on a 800mhz system, there's 133 6mhz channels. At QAM256, that's 38mbps per channel, or 5054mbps per fiber node shared amongst everyone connected to it.

At the moment 70-90 of those channels are being used by analog cable on most systems. And of course all the digital cable and HDTV channels. Can you see why they want to switch everybody to all digital now? That analog cable takes up an enormous amount of their available bandwidth.

Bottom line, there's really an enormous amount of bandwidth that can be pumped through coax. It's just a matter of management.
--
\\ROB - a part of the SCB local network]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592210 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:26:00 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592071 rewket :
said by dscline :

You seem to be countering your own point. Yes, the whole internet is shared, and yes, you are limited by the weakest point. But even with cable, your home connection is often not the weakest point. I "only" have 8MB cable, yet my download speeds are still frequently limited by the source. Very few of MY common everyday sites can saturate my pipe. Of course, that only holds true for downloads. Pure download speed is not what's attractive about FIOS. It's the upload speed, and lack of a download cap.

But I think an earlier sentiment holds true: for most of the market, the differences aren't great.

Right on, YOUR SOURCES
Most people who are tech-savvy or teenagers in need of porn/movies/games will find everything they want at the speed they want
4years ago i could get access to the local university's connection a couple times a year(back then the standar broadband speed was 1.5mbps here)
back then they were still people like you saying ohh most sources cant handle over 4-6mbps
Then why the heck could i download EVERYWHERE i went at over 10mbps? Most webhosting companies offer at least 6-10mbps, most torrents have enough people to go at 10mbps especialy if its a private tracker, most irc chans have 10-100mbps bots, most high-tech companies have big pipes
dont forget the linux distros these are on the biggest pipes ever i could even get 25mbps from free.fr here in canada]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14592071 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:00:04 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591778 packetscan : This is assuming the premise equipment can handle the extra speed. Although i see it having no issues though 30mb/.
Wonder what the absolute MAX would be for the hardware being installed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591778 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 17:06:36 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591355 the cynic : Lets see FIOS will be in 0.00001% of homes by the end of this year.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591355 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:00:30 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591353 oliphant : Pretty certain as they haven't done it with DSL. It seems to me ISPs cap because of bottlenecks, not overall traffic at the headend. Cable's topology lends itself to costly bottlenecks in the field so they cap or have tons of trouble when they try to offer their dense subscriber areas 10Mb+ service.
--
WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591353 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:00:19 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591075 sporkme :
said by Derch :

I agree, nothing can beat FIOS.

Considering FIOS is new and does still ultimately cost money to run, how certain is everyone that Verizon will not be capping their users?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591075 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:11:52 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591064 davidcb13 :
said by BosstonesOwn :

said by davidcb13 :

said by BosstonesOwn :

said by Time :

said by Rob A :

No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.

Just because FiOS is fiber, doesn't mean there is an unlimited amount of bandwidth. Verizon can't just "flip a switch" without gaining more bandwidth from their end, it's common sense. FiOS is still a shared source, just like cable.

Here's a little note for ya. THE WHOLE INTERNET IS SHARED. You are as slow as your weakest point and right now cables is much lower then Fibers.

20 mbps is the same 20mbps over cable or over fiber. The medium makes no difference. Fiber maybe able to acheive higher speeds but at this point it dosent matter

True but you are failing to realize the limitations of the equipment moving the data not the medium itself.

Answer these 2 questions. How much throughput per channel on cable nodes and how much per channel on fiber ?

Then rethink the statement.

Well I do realize that cable companies over sell their nodes thus limiting the bandwith but if cablevision were to put more nodes out there shouldnt be a problem.... But I do agree with you fiber is the future but how far away that future is. Is up to how the cable companies run their systems]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591064 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:10:52 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591063 dvd536 :
said by Jeffrey :

said by Dr Demento :

And as a former OOL user myself, since I am in PA now I can tell you that I usually got 9/900 out of my 10/1 connection with virtually no downtime. And for people that are having problems on OOL are either on a really crowded node, which is seems apparent since you're in Long Island, you were truly downloading to much or just one of those victims of circumstance.

P.S: A crowded Node or server can happen on any ISP or connection medium. It could even happen on Fios if Verizon ever mismanages it.;)

And to anyone who said cable is the weaker link, yours is still weaker than the guy appointed to manage an OC-48, do you feel comfy now?:uhh:

You're just jealous because you don't have Fios. ;)
I remember when people used to say that about OOL :)
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14591063 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:10:36 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590700 Jeffrey :
said by Dr Demento :

And as a former OOL user myself, since I am in PA now I can tell you that I usually got 9/900 out of my 10/1 connection with virtually no downtime. And for people that are having problems on OOL are either on a really crowded node, which is seems apparent since you're in Long Island, you were truly downloading to much or just one of those victims of circumstance.

P.S: A crowded Node or server can happen on any ISP or connection medium. It could even happen on Fios if Verizon ever mismanages it.;)

And to anyone who said cable is the weaker link, yours is still weaker than the guy appointed to manage an OC-48, do you feel comfy now?:uhh:

I also got roughly 9/1 out of my OOL connection from 1999 through 2003. After 2003, it got steadily worse.

I don't buy the argument "downloading too much". That's a weak, catch-all phrase that depends upon opinion, and in no way can that be used to describe general degredation of a service for 2 years.

You're just jealous because you don't have Fios. ;)
--
"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your forsight becomes a nimble vagrant."

Wikipedia]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590700 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:05:15 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590652 dscline : You seem to be countering your own point. Yes, the whole internet is shared, and yes, you are limited by the weakest point. But even with cable, your home connection is often not the weakest point. I "only" have 8MB cable, yet my download speeds are still frequently limited by the source. Very few of MY common everyday sites can saturate my pipe. Of course, that only holds true for downloads. Pure download speed is not what's attractive about FIOS. It's the upload speed, and lack of a download cap.

But I think an earlier sentiment holds true: for most of the market, the differences aren't great.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590652 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:55:04 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590578 BosstonesOwn :
said by davidcb13 :

said by BosstonesOwn :

said by Time :

said by Rob A :

No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.

Just because FiOS is fiber, doesn't mean there is an unlimited amount of bandwidth. Verizon can't just "flip a switch" without gaining more bandwidth from their end, it's common sense. FiOS is still a shared source, just like cable.

Here's a little note for ya. THE WHOLE INTERNET IS SHARED. You are as slow as your weakest point and right now cables is much lower then Fibers.

20 mbps is the same 20mbps over cable or over fiber. The medium makes no difference. Fiber maybe able to acheive higher speeds but at this point it dosent matter

True but you are failing to realize the limitations of the equipment moving the data not the medium itself.

Answer these 2 questions. How much throughput per channel on cable nodes and how much per channel on fiber ?

Then rethink the statement.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590578 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:43:42 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590549 SirXILE :
said by click_310 :

said by TKJunkMail :

teenage video porn downloaders.
Please stop using stereotypes! I download porn all the time and am not a teenager. :p

Agreed. Even though I have girlfriends. I still download and look at them. :)
--
There can only be one..."X.I.L.E"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590549 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:37:11 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590477 Dr Demento : And as a former OOL user myself, since I am in PA now I can tell you that I usually got 9/900 out of my 10/1 connection with virtually no downtime. And for people that are having problems on OOL are either on a really crowded node, which is seems apparent since you're in Long Island, you were truly downloading to much or just one of those victims of circumstance.

P.S: A crowded Node or server can happen on any ISP or connection medium. It could even happen on Fios if Verizon ever mismanages it.;)

And to anyone who said cable is the weaker link, yours is still weaker than the guy appointed to manage an OC-48, do you feel comfy now?:uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590477 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:22:54 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590429 davidcb13 :
said by BosstonesOwn :

said by Time :

said by Rob A :

No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.

Just because FiOS is fiber, doesn't mean there is an unlimited amount of bandwidth. Verizon can't just "flip a switch" without gaining more bandwidth from their end, it's common sense. FiOS is still a shared source, just like cable.

Here's a little note for ya. THE WHOLE INTERNET IS SHARED. You are as slow as your weakest point and right now cables is much lower then Fibers.

20 mbps is the same 20mbps over cable or over fiber. The medium makes no difference. Fiber maybe able to acheive higher speeds but at this point it dosent matter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590429 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 13:11:51 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590270 BosstonesOwn :
said by Time :

said by Rob A :

No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.

Just because FiOS is fiber, doesn't mean there is an unlimited amount of bandwidth. Verizon can't just "flip a switch" without gaining more bandwidth from their end, it's common sense. FiOS is still a shared source, just like cable.

Here's a little note for ya. THE WHOLE INTERNET IS SHARED. You are as slow as your weakest point and right now cables is much lower then Fibers.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590270 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 12:38:19 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590015 Steely :
said by TKJunkMail :

At some point, the price becomes more important than continual speed upgrades. And for 95% of the internet customers those numbers have already been reached.

I agree. Most people with cable or DSL already pay more than they want to and are basically satisfied with their speeds.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14590015 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:49:56 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589998 not quite right :
said by click_310 :

said by TKJunkMail :

teenage video porn downloaders.
Please stop using stereotypes! I download porn all the time and am not a teenager. :p

*LOL* Thanks for the laugh Click you made my day! :D
--
Hey...look another dead horse...let's beat it to death.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589998 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:47:33 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589966 click_310 :
said by TKJunkMail :

teenage video porn downloaders.
Please stop using stereotypes! I download porn all the time and am not a teenager. :p
--
Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589966 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:40:18 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589929 Jeffrey : As a former Optimum Online customer, they can advertise whatever they want. Unless you're on your own damned node and the weather is nice, and your signals are just right (according to the maintenance guy that shows up at your house, but not to Tech Support on the phone who sent the maintenance guy there to begin with), I can't imagine that a 20mb package deployed in Fios areas will help matters.

I've been so happy with my Fios since May; no caps, no downtime, max speed all the time.

All this testing and annoucements and trademarks (BOOST) for 20mbit which most people won't even see? What Verizon counter this relatively quickly.

As for Oyster Bay, the best thing Verizon can do besides watch a failed attempt to get 50mbit service there by CV is to get my damn cell to work there. :) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589929 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:32:26 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589925 Time :
said by Rob A :

No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.

Just because FiOS is fiber, doesn't mean there is an unlimited amount of bandwidth. Verizon can't just "flip a switch" without gaining more bandwidth from their end, it's common sense. FiOS is still a shared source, just like cable.
--
First rule of fiber optics: you do not talk about fiber optics]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589925 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:32:00 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589924 davidcb13 :
said by Rob A :

No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.

Theres no reason cable cant support 20/2 The technolgey should be able to handle these speeds]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589924 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:31:51 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589881 TKJunkMail : Once speed reaches a certain level, higher speeds mean nothing except to hard core teenage video porn downloaders. At some point, the price becomes more important than continual speed upgrades. And for 95% of the internet customers those numbers have already been reached.
--
--
Join Red Room Forum
My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589881 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:24:47 EDT Re: It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589846 Derch : I agree, nothing can beat FIOS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589846 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:17:34 EDT It'll never work http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589805 Rob A : No one on cable with be able to hold 20Mbps/2Mbps consistently and will be capped very easily. And not to mention, when this things goes final, Verizon will just flip a switch and upgrade their speeds with no hassle.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14589805 Sun, 16 Oct 2005 11:09:58 EDT