WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idiot: in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r14500924 en Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:00:40 EDT Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:00:40 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14514991 qdemn7 : "Let those who complain that too much money is being spent on abstract knowledge while people are starving remember this:

The alternative to knowledge is savagery. Their very existence as stowaways on the voyage of civilization is owing to advances in science which permit some to live without doing their share of the work. Let them be tolerant, then, lest by encumbering the useful ones they destroy the thing which keeps them alive." -- George Ellery Hale
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"Gun Control: The notion that Matthew Shepard tied to a fence post in the middle of Wyoming is morally superior to Matthew Shepard explaining to the local sheriff how his attackers got all those fatal bullet holes." ~Dan Weiner ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14514991 Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:51:17 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14512347 Titus Pullo :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by Titus Pullo See Profile :

»news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051005/us_···usa_dc_6

Which contains such tidbits as:
"Since 2000, the ranks of the poor have increased year by year by almost 5.5 million in total."

Which, interestingly enough, corresponds to the same year that infant mortality began to increase (after a slow decrease) in the US. Coincidence? I don't think so. You may disagree.
Which also, intersetingly enough, matches how many illegal immigrants have flooded into the US.
So you're saying illegals are included in the data and that illegal aliens (not black Americans) are the predominant source for the increase in US infant mortality since 2000? I'd appreciate a citation or a link to back up that assertion, if you'd be so kind.


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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14512347 Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:00:42 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14512232 TKJunkMail :
said by Titus Pullo See Profile :

»news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051005/us_···usa_dc_6

Which contains such tidbits as:
"Since 2000, the ranks of the poor have increased year by year by almost 5.5 million in total."

Which, interestingly enough, corresponds to the same year that infant mortality began to increase (after a slow decrease) in the US. Coincidence? I don't think so. You may disagree.
Which also, intersetingly enough, matches how many illegal immigrants have flooded into the US.
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My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14512232 Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:45:55 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14512189 Titus Pullo : The answer is that we now tolerate obscene levels of poverty for the richest nation on earth, which leads to many of our social ills. The problem today is that the gap between rich and poor is reaching critical mass.

I just ran across this article today while surfing:

»news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051005/us_···usa_dc_6

Which contains such tidbits as:
"Since 2000, the ranks of the poor have increased year by year by almost 5.5 million in total."

Which, interestingly enough, corresponds to the same year that infant mortality began to increase (after a slow decrease) in the US. Coincidence? I don't think so. You may disagree.

Another snippet from the link:

U.S. POVERTY WORST IN INDUSTRIALISED WORLD

"Every August, we Americans tell ourselves a lie," said David Brady, a Duke University professor who studies poverty.

"The poverty rate was designed to undercount because the government wanted to show progress in the war on poverty."

"Taking everything into account, the real rate is around 18 percent, or 48 million people. Poverty in the United States is more widespread, by far, than in any other industrialized country."

Poverty is a universal problem, as is inequality. The world's 500 richest people, according to U.N. statistics, have as much income as the world's poorest 416 million. Yes, that's 500/416,000,000. If someone doesn't see the problems inherent to such a skewed statistic, I daresay they're in an alternate reality.

I can think of no plausible excuse for such obscenity. We live in a world that has created a milieu of pure greed with class systems that encourage intolerance and indifference in order to divide and conquer. Such a state of existence is unsustainable, as history has shown us time and time again.
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14512189 Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:40:19 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14507902 qdemn7 :
said by John Galt See Profile :

My personal preference would be to give them a full-on Demerol push and send them off to their happiness. But that is not "socially acceptable" now, is it?

I'd probably be accused of killing a Liberal...
You don't have to be that harsh, simply forcibly sterilize their sorry asses. The men as well as the women. Of course the Left and empathy fascists would shit themselves blind over that. :D

Of course it WOULD have the desired affect of reducing infant mortality. But then if you want an omelet you have to break eggs. That's hard on the egg, and hurts the hen's feelings, but then, so what? :uhh:
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"Gun Control: The notion that Matthew Shepard tied to a fence post in the middle of Wyoming is morally superior to Matthew Shepard explaining to the local sheriff how his attackers got all those fatal bullet holes." ~Dan Weiner ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14507902 Wed, 05 Oct 2005 05:52:24 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506709 jester121 :
said by John Galt See Profile :

[
Why do I know this? Because I spent 10 years at the business end of an autopsy scalpel doing post-mortem exams on dead babies.
I think technically it was the corpse that was on the business end of the scalpel. All a question of perspective, I suppose. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506709 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:17:42 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idiot: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506428 dfinn6230 : Way to go SF! I'm with you all the way! Information access is a fundamental right (as in Freedom of Information Act). The poor and the rich should have the same access. Compare this position to that of China.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506428 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:35:18 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506255 bmn :
said by John Galt See Profile :

said by bmn See Profile :

And they will have no one to blame but themselves.
The reality is that everyone else ends up getting the blame...
Well, with phenomenon like addiction, where cultural, societal and environmental issues also play a role, its much easier to blame other people than to take responsibility. That's never going to change.
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Tor server operator... Helping the free flow of information daily.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506255 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:13:56 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506022 John Galt :
said by bmn See Profile :

And they will have no one to blame but themselves.
The reality is that everyone else ends up getting the blame...
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14506022 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:45:41 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14505671 bmn :
said by John Galt See Profile :

My personal preference would be to give them a full-on Demerol push and send them off to their happiness. But that is not "socially acceptable" now, is it?
Not only is it not "socially acceptable," its also not "morally acceptable." What happens to those people later in life from any number of diseases and illnesses to things like mental illness is going to be their sentence... And they will have no one to blame but themselves.
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Tor server operator... Helping the free flow of information daily.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14505671 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 21:04:16 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14505533 John Galt :
said by calvoiper See Profile :

Actually, there's a good argument to be made that our "culture of tolerance" is to blame for infant mortality--specifically tolerance of drug use and tolerance of pre-natal abuse.
WOW...I'm glad I read further down in the posts. It saved me a lot of typing.

:p

Calvoiper is exactly correct.

Why do I know this? Because I spent 10 years at the business end of an autopsy scalpel doing post-mortem exams on dead babies. They were usually the "waste by-product" of a crack-whore "mother" who was too busy with her "habit" to attend to the new life growing in her womb. I guess that the only "happy thought" was that she would soon be newly-impregnated and the same vicious cycle would continue.

Nothing like delivering a stillborn to an abusive "mother" and having her ask if she can "go now" because she has to "meet somebody".

Add to that alcoholic "mothers", "mothers" that smoke, and "mothers" that just plain don't give a shit..and that is why you get a high infant mortality in industrialized nations.

Why?

Because they can afford it. As long as the "taxpayer" is picking up the tab, why should they care?

My personal preference would be to give them a full-on Demerol push and send them off to their happiness. But that is not "socially acceptable" now, is it?

I'd probably be accused of killing a Liberal...
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14505533 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 20:40:02 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504787 calvoiper : All right, since you're making me stab at your thrice rephrased question in the dark,...

We tolerate a higher infant mortality in the US because "civil libertarians" believe that it is inappropriate to force proper pre-natal care on unwilling mothers. In particular, we cannot legally force a pregnant drug-addicted female into a secure facility. We cannot force pregnant females to stop smoking, or to make and keep clinic appointments.

This is beginning to sound like the tired old refrain about how Regan supposedly closed mental health facilities and dumped mentally handicapped people on the street. What really happened was that the dear liberal courts said that you cannot confine a mentally deranged person unless they "are an immediate threat to themselves or others", so scores, if not hundreds, of thousands of mentally ill people signed themselves out to live on the street. The institutions were closed because they were empty, not because anyone wanted to dump people in the gutter.

You haven't answered my question about age, but perhaps we're circling Mark Twain's quote about how if a man isn't a liberal at 16 he has no heart and if he isn't a conservative at 40 he has no mind. After you share your age, perhaps you'll tell us which government agency or liberal do-good "non-profit" you work for....

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504787 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:58:59 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504687 Titus Pullo :
said by calvoiper See Profile :

Damn near 50. Why does that matter? How old are you?

What question am I not answering? You asked me why we have a higher infant mortality rate than other countries with similar economic systems, and I indicated that it's because we put up with things that other countries don't--including cultural issues relating to marriage, child care, and drug use. If you have a different reason, spit it out--but don't expect me to either magically detect what YOU think the answer is or to immediately agree that your answer is the cause.

I'm talking about how we treat human beings too--and you are sounding more and more like a teenager who doesn't like his curfew and claims that it's "intolerant."

Understand something: "Tolerance" does not mean "obligation to endlessly fund." Sample usage: I tolerate your practice of a religion different from my own, but I won't be funding that religion.

calvoiper
Age goes to perspective, and there's really only one answer to the question. If you can't figure it out, then I'm sorry, but I can give you a clue -- Forget systems and focus on means.

I know the particulars, and you provide a few good examples.

Now, if you care to, answer the question at its root and tell us why we tolerate - to use your term - high infant mortality when we clearly have the means to reduce it significantly.

Please understand this: I don't advocate anything by asking this question. I don't advocate a welfare state, Marxism, or any other hideous thing you can imagine. I'm asking a simple question that requires a root cause. No one needs a textbook explanation. Ones conscience should suffice.
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504687 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:44:14 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504561 calvoiper : Damn near 50. Why does that matter? How old are you?

What question am I not answering? You asked me why we have a higher infant mortality rate than other countries with similar economic systems, and I indicated that it's because we put up with things that other countries don't--including cultural issues relating to marriage, child care, and drug use. If you have a different reason, spit it out--but don't expect me to either magically detect what YOU think the answer is or to immediately agree that your answer is the cause.

I'm talking about how we treat human beings too--and you are sounding more and more like a teenager who doesn't like his curfew and claims that it's "intolerant."

Understand something: "Tolerance" does not mean "obligation to endlessly fund." Sample usage: I tolerate your practice of a religion different from my own, but I won't be funding that religion.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504561 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:26:05 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504406 Titus Pullo : You're not answering the question. I'm not arguing economic systems - I'm talking about how we treat human beings. How old are you?
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504406 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:58:51 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504388 mondoz :
said by bokamba See Profile
His use of the word "idiot" still applies. It would be nice if everyone had access to the Internet, but calling it a right means he thinks that by virtue of being a human, we deserve access to all the information of the world. That is idiotic.


But that's not what he said.

He said "It is to me a fundamental right to have access universally to information,"
He didn't say 'all information of the world.'

Perhaps "Access to Information" should be an Amendment to the Constitution.
After all, if people have the right to have a gun, the right to at least know how to use it should go with it, why they have that right, and how they got it.

The government already provides libraries, some with Internet-connected computers for free.
Combining these two sources of information and calling them a 'right' doesn't seem like such a big deal to me.
Many people are within reach of a public library that has free Internet access, which is pretty nice already, eh? ;)

He also didn't say that all content should be free or accessible, just the conduit to the information. In this case, he's only talking about state-subsidized wifi.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504388 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:56:11 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504109 calvoiper : Actually, there's a good argument to be made that our "culture of tolerance" is to blame for infant mortality--specifically tolerance of drug use and tolerance of pre-natal abuse.

You talk about "help" for the poor the same way a drug addict talks about "help" for his withdrawal--please give me something to increase my dependence.

Finally, if you so reject our economic system as to only support the party that leaves more "crumbs" on the table, I doubt that we are even talking about the same things as goals. I don't want to see people eating crumbs, I want them to be eating bread--but I want them to have a choice of bread, and I'm not willing to give that up just so you and your pseudo-idealistic cronies can run the bakery and make only the kind of bread you like.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14504109 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:11:13 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503759 Titus Pullo : There's nothing misleading about the question. Here, I'll make it as concise as I can.

Take any industrialized nation in the world today and compare their infant mortality rate with that of the USA. I don't need economics, political systems or anything else; just the numbers will do.

How then, does one answer why the sole superpower has higher rates than many of the other nations? Is that a "Culture of Life?" Or is it closer to a culture of growing intolerance? It's simply that simple.

Your question is piffle. No one benefits from carrying a large underclass. Look at what we're borrowing from the Chinese now to clean up NOLA. Next you'll tell us that the liberal left opposes any and all measures designed to help the poor that the republicans support. Liberals keep pushing for minimum wage increases and republicans keep telling us it will stifle growth, yet every increase in modern history has done nothing to slow growth.

Both parties are captive to corporatism, but I truly believe one is more likely to leave crumbs on the table than the other.
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503759 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:16:34 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503739 John Galt :
said by calvoiper See Profile :

We could digress into why socialism and totalitarianism go together (absence of individual choice) and why capitalism and democracy go together (individual choice and the responsibility for its exercise), but that would get us even further from the topic, wouldn't it?
Ah...finally. The fog is beginning to lift.

You know, sometimes I think that Karl the News Guy unleashes this stuff on us and then leans back in his chair at BBR Master Control, with a sly grin and an evil laugh, knowing what is going to transpire.

Usually he posts this kind of stuff on Friday so the pot can boil and be stirred all weekend.

:p

Must be a slow news week...

;)
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503739 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:12:06 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503732 bmn :
said by calvoiper See Profile :

No, it wouldn't just be "governing style". Those that shattered did so because they were broke, and that's an economic consequence.
True... It would be a combination of the two and the dicussion would disgress to whether economic system determines governing style or whether governing system determines economic system...

We could digress into why socialism and totalitarianism go together (absence of individual choice) and why capitalism and democracy go together (individual choice and the responsibility for its exercise), but that would get us even further from the topic, wouldn't it?
Yeah, but I can say that its possible to have democratic socialism and that fascism is simply the totalitarian versus of capitalism...

But, yes, we're drifting from the topic, but if you want to continue this, there's IM.
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Tor server operator... Helping the free flow of information daily.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503732 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:09:59 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503720 calvoiper : Indeed, that's a sensible reply.

My concern is that if you define "access to information" as a right, then the Supreme Court might see it differently. They sure define "public use" differently than most of us.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503720 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:08:39 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503686 calvoiper : No, it wouldn't just be "governing style". Those that shattered did so because they were broke, and that's an economic consequence.

We could digress into why socialism and totalitarianism go together (absence of individual choice) and why capitalism and democracy go together (individual choice and the responsibility for its exercise), but that would get us even further from the topic, wouldn't it?

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503686 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:03:36 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503682 bmn :
said by calvoiper See Profile :

And defining "access" as a "right" causes me concern, because nobody has a "right" to my medical records, your diary, or the school Principal's oil change records, but all of these are still "information".
However, since that information is yours, you also have the right to control access to that information.

The two are not contradictory, but complementary.

Some information, however, can't be controlled because it can't be owned. Scientific information, for example, can't be owned because anyone can find it.
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Tor server operator...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503682 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 16:02:55 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503667 bmn :
said by bokamba See Profile :

said by bmn See Profile :

No one can say that you don't have the right to know how the Sun works or how the ocean currents flow.
You've basically just said that nobody owns such information, which I don't dispute. In other words, you shouldn't be prohibited to accessing public information. That doesn't mean that anyone should be forced to provide you with the information without proper compensation.
Oh, I agree... I don't think you should be able to force people to release information they created for free if they don't want to, but that depends on the type of information...

For example, I don't think that Microsoft should be forced to release their source code because its theirs... However, I don't think that scientific infomation should be locked up the same way (probably because I work in scientific fields).

If the mayor wants the city of San Francisco to provide Wi-Fi for free, that's fine, as long as someone is willing to foot the bill (i.e. taxpayers). But based on the way he's phrasing things, he thinks he should be able to force a company to provide access at zero price.
You are completely correct. He shouldn't be able to do that, but I don't get the impression that is what he is looking to do. And of course, it looks like even if he wanted to do that, it would be pointless to try since people are already offering free, open internet access.
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Tor server operator...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503667 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:59:55 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503664 John Galt :
said by Titus Pullo See Profile :

This is your response? and to only 1/20 of my post?
You just keep hittin 'em out of the park. Don't you, Chuck?
He knows a troll when he sees one...

No point wasting time, effort and energy on a zealot.
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503664 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:59:35 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503596 calvoiper : And defining "access" as a "right" causes me concern, because nobody has a "right" to my medical records, your diary, or the school Principal's oil change records, but all of these are still "information".

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503596 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:50:54 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503579 bokamba :
said by bmn See Profile :

No one can say that you don't have the right to know how the Sun works or how the ocean currents flow.
You've basically just said that nobody owns such information, which I don't dispute. In other words, you shouldn't be prohibited to accessing public information. That doesn't mean that anyone should be forced to provide you with the information without proper compensation. If the mayor wants the city of San Francisco to provide Wi-Fi for free, that's fine, as long as someone is willing to foot the bill (i.e. taxpayers). But based on the way he's phrasing things, he thinks he should be able to force a company to provide access at zero price.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503579 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:48:18 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503577 bmn :
said by calvoiper See Profile :

I was thinking about which nation and which alliance survived, and which ones shattered....
Ahh, but, would that not be a function of governing style and less of economic style ?
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This space intentionally left blank...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503577 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:47:40 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503567 calvoiper : I was thinking about which nation and which alliance survived, and which ones shattered....

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503567 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:46:26 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503539 bmn :
said by calvoiper See Profile :

Then again, one could consider the relevant success and/or failure of the economics of capitalism and socialism as practiced by two resource rich nations (the US and the USSR) and their respective NATO and Warsaw Pact followers.
One could... The problem with doing that, however, is that how one defines economic success and failure is not objective, but pure a subjective exercise. It depends on what one views as important. For example, is employment level an important factor or not?

That would, of course, confuse the theorists with the results of actual implementation.
Everything looks good on paper... Its taking it from paper to practice where the problem is.
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This space intentionally left blank...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503539 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:42:33 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503538 Titus Pullo :
said by Combat Chuck See Profile :

said by Titus Pullo See Profile :

You, and those that hold your opinion, are exemplary of a growing segment of this society that extols their intolerance as a virtue.
Sigh, if only scientists looked at everything with the level of emotion you fools looked at everything we would have all starved to death long ago worrying about the suffering of wheat. I'd love to know how the belief that profits, as a reward for those who do more with less, therefore lowering the costs of living (Hyundai anyone?) and losses, as the door hitting those who haven't on the ass on the way out, is intolerant. It's not, that's just your way of keeping people from taking a step back and looking at the situation from a realistic (ie: not emotional) standpoint.
This is your response? and to only 1/20 of my post?
You just keep hittin 'em out of the park. Don't you, Chuck?
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503538 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:42:29 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idiot: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503537 calvoiper : Not that I agree with the original poster's premise, but I believe he was speaking of the Internet as the "most revolutionary technology," and WiFi was the "access" to it.

At least it reads less crazy that way.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503537 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:42:24 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503467 calvoiper : Then again, one could consider the relevant success and/or failure of the economics of capitalism and socialism as practiced by two resource rich nations (the US and the USSR) and their respective NATO and Warsaw Pact followers.

That would, of course, confuse the theorists with the results of actual implementation.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503467 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:34:57 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503453 bmn :
said by bokamba See Profile :

said by bmn See Profile :

People have the right to be able to get to the information of the world
What or who gives people that right?
Well, it depends on the context... The government, for example, has the Freedom of Information act which grants the right to people to access government information.

As for non-government information, the right to access that information is given by the people who produce that information. For example, if someone rights a paper or article and makes it available to the world, the right to access the information is granted.

And some information, by its own existence, grants the right... For example, the facts about scientific phenomenon are open access. No one can say that you don't have the right to know how the Sun works or how the ocean currents flow.
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This space intentionally left blank...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503453 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:32:52 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503445 calvoiper :
said by Titus Pullo See Profile :

... please explain for us how [the US] has nearly the highest infant mortality rate within the same class of nations?
The key to your misleading question is your inclusion of "the same class of nations" as a qualifier. If you really want to compare economics, compare those nations with established capitalist societies with those nations that depend on other economic theory--and I include corruption as a theory, so don't discount it. If you have a specific point to make about the US within its "class", you need to be more explicit and less verbose in making it.

said by Titus Pullo See Profile :

hatred for those that want to help those with less attain more.
Let me ask you this: Which party profits more by having a large underclass that votes reliably for the Democratic party? I mean, let's face it--if half of the "have nots" got enough to be "have somethings" then they would become taxpayers and some of them would probably vote Republican--much to the distress of the Democratic party. So much better instead to make sure they are fully dependent on government largess and will vote reliably for the party which encourages government dependence.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503445 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:32:18 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503379 bokamba :
said by bmn See Profile :

People have the right to be able to get to the information of the world
What or who gives people that right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503379 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:24:02 EDT Re: universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503272 bmn :
said by bokamba See Profile :

[His use of the word "idiot" still applies. It would be nice if everyone had access to the Internet, but calling it a right means he thinks that by virtue of being a human, we deserve access to all the information of the world. That is idiotic.
The problem here is that access to information as a right does not make internet access a right. This is getting down to semantics.

People have the right to be able to get to the information of the world, but it doesn't mean you have the right to all methods of access. For example, people can use the library in place of the internet. Access to information is a right, but access technologies are not a right.
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said by aurora00 See Profile :

Please use a little bit judgment before you fire a posting calling other people idiot. The quote says a fundamental right to have access universally to information. Wireless is of course just a mean, not the right per se.
His use of the word "idiot" still applies. It would be nice if everyone had access to the Internet, but calling it a right means he thinks that by virtue of being a human, we deserve access to all the information of the world. That is idiotic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503239 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 15:07:23 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503052 Combat Chuck :
said by Titus Pullo See Profile :

You, and those that hold your opinion, are exemplary of a growing segment of this society that extols their intolerance as a virtue.
Sigh, if only scientists looked at everything with the level of emotion you fools looked at everything we would have all starved to death long ago worrying about the suffering of wheat.

I'd love to know how the belief that profits, as a reward for those who do more with less, therefore lowering the costs of living (Hyundai anyone?) and losses, as the door hitting those who haven't on the ass on the way out, is intolerant. It's not, that's just your way of keeping people from taking a step back and looking at the situation from a realistic (ie: not emotional) standpoint.
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Pi Piru Piru Piru PiPiru Pi!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14503052 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:42:46 EDT universal access to info a fundamental right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14502538 aurora00 : Please use a little bit judgment before you fire a posting calling other people idiot. The quote says a fundamental right to have access universally to information. Wireless is of course just a mean, not the right per se.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14502538 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:32:37 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14502422 bmn :
said by Combat Chuck See Profile :

said by Minister See Profile :

The dislike of the idea of broadband as a utility stems from a love of profit and a hatred of government getting in the way of that profit.
And the dislike of profit and desire for government to intervene comes from a childish over-simplistic view of economics and the role profits (and losses) play in increasing the standard of living for everyone;
Both views are overly-simplistic and childish views economics because both views ignore the weaknesses of their paradigms...
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said by pnh102 See Profile :

Is Wifi also more popular than Jesus, Mohamed, Shiva and Buddha combined?
On this site it is...!

:p
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14502085 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:33:10 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501805 Titus Pullo :
said by Combat Chuck See Profile :

said by Minister See Profile :

The dislike of the idea of broadband as a utility stems from a love of profit and a hatred of government getting in the way of that profit.
And the dislike of profit and desire for government to intervene comes from a childish over-simplistic view of economics and the role profits (and losses) play in increasing the standard of living for everyone; a roll that is totally bypassed once the government decides something that is not a right is and then uses that to play to the publics emotions instead of their brains. Ohh the poor have to get up off their arses to go to the library to get access while the rich sit in their castles hording the broadband, their being oppressed!!
You wouldn't know economic theory and its relation to quality of living if it bit you in the ass and fed you breakfast. Your criteria is HSI and a car with gas to make it to the library, while someone else may simply want a warm room this winter AND their medicine while working 40 hours, check to check.

You, and those that hold your opinion, are exemplary of a growing segment of this society that extols their intolerance as a virtue; you're simply rehashing Social Darwinism under the guise of corporate/political dogma. It is currently not the have-nots that hate, Sir, it is the haves that hate those without. Virtue has no price; perhaps that's why you've none.

If you're so sure of your understanding of the relationship between economics (in this case capitalism) and the quality of living it provides, please explain for us how a world economic superpower (that also happens to be one of the most religious industrialized nations in the world) has nearly the highest infant mortality rate within the same class of nations?

You can't.

Why not? Because your theory of economics and any "increased standard of living" don't belong in the same sentence. Your world view is polluted by an angry and hate-filled intolerant rhetoric: intolerance for those that have less and hatred for those that want to help those with less attain more. Whether this is born of self loathing or ignorance is up to the reader. The only thing you give freely is your indignation towards any level of indigence.
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"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501805 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:48:41 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idiot: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501414 pnh102 :
said by Minister See Profile :

Is a man an "idiot" for suggesting access to the most revolutionary technology in the history of man should be a right?
Wifi is the most revolutionary technology in the history of man? That's a little bit of an overstatement if I've ever heard of one. Is Wifi also more popular than Jesus, Mohamed, Shiva and Buddha combined?
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501414 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:38:08 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501323 Jehu : yep, idiot.

Why are you flaming someone who has not even posted here???
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A new drink for the old drunk ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501323 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:24:15 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501180 Combat Chuck :
said by Omega See Profile :

Even basic utilities are not "rights." You still have to pay for electricity, water and phone service.
Well they basically tried that in CA before with electricity (misnamed it "deregulation"), and they ran shortages. Of course no one saw that coming like a freight train horns-a-blaring.
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Pi Piru Piru Piru PiPiru Pi!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501180 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:57:50 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501162 Topmounter : It is not a "right", providing wireless internet access is not "free", it doesn't magically appear.

The next logical step is that owning a laptop will be a "right" so they can take advantage of their "right" to wireless internet access.

Then SF will be required by the courts to distribute "free" laptops to everyone so they can enjoy their "right" to wireless internet access.

Of course to run those laptops, the "right" to 120V power will be mandated and the city will be installing 120V power outlets at every street corner and alley in the city.

If you want access to "the most revolutionary technology in the history of man" and don't want to pay to provide or use it, then go to the public library.
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"If PCs are hard, then Macs are flaccid" -bb]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501162 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:55:01 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501157 Combat Chuck :
said by Minister See Profile :

The dislike of the idea of broadband as a utility stems from a love of profit and a hatred of government getting in the way of that profit.
And the dislike of profit and desire for government to intervene comes from a childish over-simplistic view of economics and the role profits (and losses) play in increasing the standard of living for everyone; a roll that is totally bypassed once the government decides something that is not a right is and then uses that to play to the publics emotions instead of their brains. Ohh the poor have to get up off their arses to go to the library to get access while the rich sit in their castles hording the broadband, their being oppressed!!
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Pi Piru Piru Piru PiPiru Pi!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501157 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:54:05 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501111 Omega :
said by Minister See Profile :

Is a man an "idiot" for suggesting access to the most revolutionary technology in the history of man should be a right? Is he really? I might suggest it's actually rather visionary.
Yes.

If free wireless internet is a right, then free cable TV should be a right. I should get a free cell phone and cell phone service, it's my right.

Even basic utilities are not "rights." You still have to pay for electricity, water and phone service. Why doesn't the mayor claim those should be offered for free? Since free wi-fi is a right getting free electricity to power up the free wi-fi should be a right as well.
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My site
SBC DSL 2650/512]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501111 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:45:16 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idiot: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501060 qdemn7 :
said by Minister See Profile :

Is a man an "idiot" for suggesting access to the most revolutionary technology in the history of man should be a right? Is he really? I might suggest it's actually rather visionary.
Yes he's an idiot. :huh:
Yes he REALLY is. :uhh:
If that's visionary, then I suggest the idiot needs glasses, or maybe a seeing-eye dog.
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"Gun Control: The notion that Matthew Shepard tied to a fence post in the middle of Wyoming is morally superior to Matthew Shepard explaining to the local sheriff how his attackers got all those fatal bullet holes." ~Dan Weiner ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501060 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:34:02 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idiot: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501024 Minister : Looks like "Retire Rich" has a new name, but the same Conservative pro-free market rhetoric.

Internet access is very quickly becoming a necessity for productivity, particularly in the San Francisco area. The dislike of the idea of broadband as a utility stems from a love of profit and a hatred of government getting in the way of that profit.

I'm sure the fact he's a Democrat doesn't hurt Rich's dislike much, either.

Is a man an "idiot" for suggesting access to the most revolutionary technology in the history of man should be a right? Is he really? I might suggest it's actually rather visionary.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14501024 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:26:25 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14500971 noone1 : "It is to me a fundamental right to have access universally to information," stated the mayor, who added the project was "a civil rights issue as much as anything else."

What else can you expect from an extremist. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14500971 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:16:20 EDT Re: WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idio http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14500933 bokamba : I am with you all the way. What an idiot.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14500933 Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:07:57 EDT WiFi NOT a fundamental right; SF mayor an idiot: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14500924 TKJunkMail : It is convenient. WiFi access is nice. It may even be advantageous to improving business development. But a "fundamental right"? Let's get real - it isn't food or shelter, or the right to a fair trial. And free WiFi has even a lower claim to being a right than does internet access. Mayor Newsom has to be one of the most limelight seeking mayors in the US.
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