Any tricks for determining los? in Wireless Service Providers

Any tricks for determining los? in Wireless Service Providers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r14483407 en Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:49:32 EDT Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:49:32 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14495977 KevinG0 : RadioMobile does this sort of link calculation. Works great, and (best of all) it's free! There's a bit of a learning curve, but once you get used to it, you can do some surprising things with it.

»www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14495977 Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:20:09 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14489629 Andrew J : Use a laser pointer and have the guy on the other end looking for the red beam smoke a bunch of cigarettes.
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Best Team.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14489629 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 18:04:42 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14488960 TalkRadio : It's probably a bit more than what I need for quick geocaches nearby the house, but spectacular nonetheless!! Thanks for the quick response and explanation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14488960 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:03:48 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14488315 John Galt :

said by TalkRadio

:

Would you mind sharing how you created them?

And others...

I use Topo USA 5.0:

»www.delorme.com/topousa/

and I use TopoZone Pro:

»www.topozone.com/

I run these programs on a 21" monitor at 1920x1600 and I use Snagit to do the screen captures:

»www.techsmith.com/products/snagi···ault.asp

Then I do post-processing in Paint Shop Pro:

»www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?···25487586

Then it is back to Snagit Editor to add annotations and arrows.

If I need to add other "objects" I use CorelDraw:

»www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite?···22690654

I also use Google Earth Plus and Keyhole...

It's all just that easy....!

;)
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14488315 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 13:52:48 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487493 Book : The local Paint guy has a 90' Bucket Truck that we contract for $85/hour.

According to Trango's Calculator, a panel on each end will do it. What concerns do you have rsa0? We have a 20 mile and 26 mile link that work flawlessly at this frequency however their isn't the difference in elevation that their is here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487493 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:13:30 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487468 TalkRadio : John Galt - very impressive graphics all over the place there! Would you mind sharing how you created them? I geocache all the time and have never seen such maps and charts. They would certainly be useful. Thank you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487468 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:08:31 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487138 rsa0 : Try to do a link budget before you spend the money. At this frequency your issues may be greater than only the LOS.
PM me if you need more details.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487138 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:55:29 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487101 tallen03 : Book: Where do you get a 90' bucket truck and how much does it cost? I looked into getting a 90' lift and it was going to be about $750/day. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14487101 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 09:41:36 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486817 ejd91717 : LOL good point. I can do it in GA when its wet outside. But maybe i need to wait for it to dry out:D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486817 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 07:30:07 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486766 Book : OK, I'm planning a 100' tower on the "B" Side. Thanks so much for the info people. I've tried to use some different mapping programs like Keyhole and Worldwind trying to determine this but couldn't.

Thanks for all the help John! What mapping programs do you use?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486766 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 06:23:08 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486227 John Galt :

said by Book

:

what tower height did you plug in for the "b" side?

I calculated from ground height...no additional elevation.

What height would I have to go on "b" side to make it work?

I would suggest a 60 footer, since I do not know what else is in the way, such as trees, etc. on the hill.

The calculator says that the radius at 0.5 miles (the obstacle in question) is 16 feet for 0.6 zone clearance at 5800 MHz.
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486227 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 01:33:08 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486164 Book : Yes, we were planning 5.8 radios for the link.

Great stuff John, what tower height did you plug in for the "b" side? What height would I have to go on "b" side to make it work?

ejd91717, I don't think you punched in the coordinates correctly. Thanks for trying to help though, I appreciate it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14486164 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 01:17:57 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485856 DaDogs : You will be using 5.8 GHz for this link?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485856 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 00:03:59 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485842 John Galt : This obstruction is actually only one foot less than the Point "B" elevation...
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A is A

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485842 Sun, 02 Oct 2005 00:01:52 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485780 John Galt :

said by ejd91717

:

A flare gun always works at night BTW

Good free advertising on the local nightly news..."a large fire was caused last night by a local wireless operator looking for a building..."

:p

People will be calling right and left!

;)
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485780 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:50:27 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485756 John Galt :

said by Book

:

Yes John, these are correct.

The black line indicates the height of the building that you are going to mount your equipment on.

It looks like you have a problem close to Point 'B'...maybe you could PtP to the hill and distribute to other subs in the area...?
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A is A

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485756 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:47:09 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485684 ejd91717 : A flare gun always works at night BTW]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485684 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:33:10 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485628 ejd91717 : With about 20 meters/65 feet on the B side you can make it work. The good news is you have about 21db of play space

There is the data the Link is based off of.

Distance between Point B and Point A is 14.8 km (9.2 miles)
True North Azimuth = 107.2°, Magnetic North Azimuth = 113.0°, Elevation angle = -0.1440°
Terrain elevation variation is 49.9 m
Propagation mode is line-of-sight, minimum clearance 0.2F1 at 8.2km
Average frequency is 2440.000 MHz
Free Space = 123.6 dB, Obstruction = 0.2 dB, Urban = 0.0 dB, Forest = 0.0 dB, Statistics = -0.1 dB
Total propagation loss is 123.8 dB
System gain from Point B to Point A is 145.0 dB
System gain from Point A to Point B is 145.0 dB
Worst reception is 21.2 dB over the required signal to meet
50.0% of time, 50.0% of locations, and 50.0% of situations

This is based off the the Legal 802.11b limits minus 2 DB of power

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485628 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:23:21 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485402 Book : Yes John, these are correct.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485402 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:37:02 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485370 John Galt : New locations...
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A is A

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485370 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:30:59 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485318 Book : And Yes, their is a huge hill (for this neck of the woods) to the Southeast. I'm worried about the North slope. The link is "around" 11 miles. I drew a line with Map Point and am using what it indicated for miles.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485318 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:21:09 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485300 Book : Sorry Guys.

Proper coordinates for Point A

43'36.308 N
84'46.690 W
elev 855]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14485300 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:17:26 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484995 John Galt : These are the two locations that I get based on a "cut-and-paste" from the coordinates given in the post...
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A is A

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484995 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 21:22:16 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484870 ejd91717 : Sorry Hit post too fast

I would advise a Relay at the following location.

43'39'53.4N
084'59'48.4W
At 10 meters

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484870 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:58:25 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484808 ejd91717 : It does not look like you have LOS Between the two site. About 18KM out you have a hill that is killing your Fresnel zone. Take a look at this Map.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484808 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:47:19 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484108 jebz :

said by Book

:

I can see other references like nearby Water Towers and so forth but I was just wondering if anyone had any other tricks I could try other than firing up some radios (which would involve erecting a tower at point B) and hoping for the best.

Using a large 12"x12" mirror for a mirror to flash is the best low tech method to determine line of site. The mirror flashes stand out very well. Use a close object inline with the target and move the mirror up and down and across in small zig-zags watching the flash on the close object.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14484108 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:37:30 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483886 John Galt : Using these coordinates, I arrive at a much greater distance than you indicate.

I also notice that the elevation of Point B is less. There is a hill located SE of that location that has the proper elevation, though.

If you could double check...!

Thanks!

;)
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A is A

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483886 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:59:23 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483651 Book : Point A
43' 22.763 N
084' 39.540 W
elev 733
Rooftop roughly 122 and of course we can go up some.

Point B
43' 37.391 N
085'00.485 W
elev 1014

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483651 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:11:58 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483514 John Galt : Coordinates of both locations?
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483514 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:40:31 EDT Re: Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483435 Anav : You might consider a point in between that can effectively see both ends, with vertical room to spare.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483435 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:23:22 EDT Any tricks for determining los? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483407 Book : I need to set up a 11.6 mile link that I'm a little worried about line of sight or fresnel zone impingement. Point A is a building. Point B, the proposed sight is a farm on a hill overlooking a village and about 200' higher above Sea Level than Point A. I've have been up in a 90' bucket truck at point B with a telescope trying to see point A but couldn't distinguishably make it out. Since Point B is 200' higher above Sea Level, Point A doesn't stick up over the trees on the horizon from that vantage point. I'm pretty sure it's there (los) but can't see it. I can see other references like nearby Water Towers and so forth but I was just wondering if anyone had any other tricks I could try other than firing up some radios (which would involve erecting a tower at point B) and hoping for the best. Thanks in advance

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14483407 Sat, 01 Oct 2005 16:18:29 EDT