5gz Cable in Wireless Service Providers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r13717436 en Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:22:03 EDT Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:22:03 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13770714 John Galt :
said by GuyS25 See Profile:

Anybody know much about this area before I throw out any more curve balls? :)
My opinion is that you should use pre-manufactured cable assemblies from a reputable manufacturer. The reason for this is that they are in the business of making cables and do it "day-in-and-day-out"...therefore they are very good at it. They have the proper tools, training and equipment to accomplish the task. They are certainly very much better at it than someone who cuts a couple of fittings a week.

That being said...! I realize that field assemby is sometimes required.

If you have to cut a fitting in the field, the same "rules" should apply. Use the best tools, materials and techniques. I think that your observation regarding the use of the proper crimp die is correct. I believe that soldering them helps to keep out the air and reduce the oxidation that will form at the crimp interface over time.

It is necessary to have every metallic part clean and shiny-bright before assembly. Touching things with your fingers and getting the oil on them prior to assembly is just asking for trouble. Appropriate solvent cleaners are recommended. Make sure that they are compatable with the materials and do not cause degradation. I apply them very sparingly with dropper bottles and swabs, and use laboratory grade "clean-wipes". They are not very expensive...

I used to build assembly workstations for the satellite assembly facilities at NASA Ames in Sunnyvale, CA and for Loral Space Systems. I was very interested in watching how the technicians assembled every piece of equipment. Everything related to the assembly is very exacting, because they only get "one chance" to do it right. If it fails after launch....well, never mind! Ain't gettin' fixed now.

My boss used to say that it took me twice as long to install anything compared to the other guys. He would send me out to fix their installations after they broke down. I finally got tired of that...and I went back to the office and asked where these other guys were.

"Oh, they're out making installations...!"

I told him that I wasn't going to fix anyone else's install anymore, that if it failed that they had to fix it themselves, otherwise they would never know what they were doing wrong. The boss thought that was a good idea and started doing that.

The other people "whined" that they didn't "have the time" to go back and fix the "problems"...

Ha-ha...!

:p

Things got better after that.

:D
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13770714 Wed, 29 Jun 2005 01:31:48 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13769614 GuyS25 : Hmm...I could be totally wrong on this but I believe that a crimp generally performs better at 5GHz frequencies. Times Microwave's own EZ range of connectors use a spring clamp arrangement for the centre conductor.

Of course, there are crimps and crimps. The correct dye is essential for a consistently high quality crimp.

I've also heard that around 5GHz everything should be silver soldered.

Anybody know much about this area before I throw out any more curve balls? :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13769614 Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:41:36 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13766151 superdog :
said by Hydro27405 See Profile:



I use 3' of LMR400 at each install, the one thing I do see that a lot of people forget to do is use emery cloth on the center conducter before crimping the center pin on. This makes a huge difference at 5.8 and 2.4.

Hydro
Nothing against what You have said?, But wouldn't even THINK of crimping a 5.8Ghz connector at all?. I would solder every center pin. I don't even use crimp on @ 2.4Ghz because I have had to many problems early on. IMHO, that is just one more thing that will make me get out of bed at 3AM??:)
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13766151 Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:28:05 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13763966 John Galt :
said by Hydro27405 See Profile:

I use 3' of LMR400 at each install, the one thing I do see that a lot of people forget to do is use emery cloth on the center conducter before crimping the center pin on. This makes a huge difference at 5.8 and 2.4.
I have mentioned this before...that installation in general, and installation of connectors in particular, is something that deserves the utmost care.

Every little thing matters...a lot.
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13763966 Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:33:23 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13763608 Hydro27405 : I was one of the people testing in the StarOS forum.
I just changed another pigtail out last week, the standard one was 12" of 1mm coax and the new ones I use are 6" of 1.8mm cable. At 5.8Ghz the customer went from -74 to -68 so there is a considerable differance.

I use 3' of LMR400 at each install, the one thing I do see that a lot of people forget to do is use emery cloth on the center conducter before crimping the center pin on. This makes a huge difference at 5.8 and 2.4.

Hydro]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13763608 Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:28:46 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13761625 John Galt :
said by GuyS25 See Profile:

Be sure to put on a fresh pot of coffee before clicking.
That's the kind of interpersonal advice and consideration that makes this forum work...

;)
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13761625 Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:44:08 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13761430 Equis : Thanks :)

I think I'll use the MMX Connection & see what happens]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13761430 Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:17:41 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13760026 GuyS25 : That is the case on frequency. It was found that the effect was negligible at 2.4GHz, less than 1dB IIRC. Here's the link:

»forums.star-os.com/showthread.php?t=3495

Be sure to put on a fresh pot of coffee before clicking.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13760026 Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:14:02 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13759421 Equis : I did a search on the star-os forum but not sure if I'm looking at the correct one.

Would you be able to post a URL to the topic?

What about the MMX to N are they any better?

Thanks Heaps!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13759421 Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:48:36 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13758526 cmaenginsb : Thanks for the info Guy. Personally I don't use Star-OS so I wouldn't have seen a thread there. :)

That does make sense and of course any negative effects will be far worse the higher the frequency you use.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13758526 Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:48:30 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13756602 GuyS25 :
said by cmaenginsb See Profile:

If you're using mini-pci most likely it is the u fl pigtail to blame, the tolerances on those just suck, which is why I'm glad the new 400 mw radios have mmcx as an option.
I'm not sure if you've seen it, or even participated, but there is a very long thread on this on the starOS board. After a lot of detailed testing, it has been concluded that it is not the U.FL connector that's the problem but the compatibility between the very small coax that must be used and the N-Type.

These pig tails use a different manufacturer's connector (not Hirose) which allows a larger coax to be used. Some people have seen up to 8dBm improvement at each end of the link by using these pig tails:

»www.allrfcables.com

I have just received some U.FL to N-Type and have not tried them yet but they are certainly a lot more substantial than the ones I have been using to date.

HTH.
Guy
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13756602 Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:44:57 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13754210 cmaenginsb : I would check to make sure you're using the right connector as beebe mentioned. So you swapped out the antennas and even with the radios on 5 Ghz with the 2.4 antennas the link worked? If that's the case then I would look at the antennas.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13754210 Mon, 27 Jun 2005 01:38:54 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13753674 Beebe : Make sure you are using the correct u.fl connector on the card. A lot of them have two for diversity, and sometimes you can choose the primary port from software.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13753674 Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:47:18 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13752398 Equis : Yep, They are the mpci cards with the u.fl connectors.

I started off using all 5hz radio & antenna, because the radios are 5ghz & 2.4 ghz I changed to 2.4 antenna's (before I switched the radio over to 2.4)

I was using the same cable each time.

Thanks :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13752398 Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:34:08 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13749498 cmaenginsb : Were you using mini-pci cards? Did you say you had the radios running at 5 ghz but the antennas were 2.4, what cable did you use with that.

The wisp router cable should work fine. If you're using mini-pci most likely it is the u fl pigtail to blame, the tolerances on those just suck, which is why I'm glad the new 400 mw radios have mmcx as an option.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13749498 Sun, 26 Jun 2005 12:08:20 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13748290 Equis : Thanks Guys,

It just seems strange I couldnt get a 500ft link working with 5ghz.

When I changed the antennas to 2.4 (nd left radio on 5ghz) I saw no degrade, thats what made me thin it was the cable

This is what I was using, It say LMR400 "Style" »www.wisp-router.com/product_info···s_id=356

When I emailed wisp a week ago they never answerd (they are normall really good)

Thanks

Rhys]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13748290 Sun, 26 Jun 2005 04:35:26 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13723505 John Galt : Download the ElectroComm catalogue. It has a section in it for cable and the specifications for each type. Loss per 100 feet at a variety of frequencies is one of the spec's.
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A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13723505 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:18:27 EDT Re: 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13719248 cmaenginsb : No, LMR-400 is fine with 5ghz, however it is more sensitive to improperly terminated connectors and nicks and bends. It's not until you get to stuff like 7/8" heliax that 5 ghz can't be used.

As to your signal strength, while the panels might have the same gain as the grids, 5 ghz has more loss over distance so your signal strength would be the same.

I recommend finding a link calculator like the one on electrocomm (which I hate but since YDI took there's down it's my backup) and seeing what the RSSI/SNR should have been for both 2.4 and 5 ghz.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13719248 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:21:57 EDT 5gz Cable http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13717436 Equis : Hello,

Do you need special cable for 5ghz installs or will the normal LM400 stuff work fine?

I did my first 5ghz install and it didn't work well at all, I decided to go to 2.4 and to my suprise I changed the antenna's to 2.4 grids and have the same snr that I had with the 5ghz panels (really bad) this made me wonder if the cable was not letting the 5ghz pass

Thanks

:)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13717436 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:43:58 EDT