Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r13159096 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:56:23 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 21:56:23 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13167734 anon : I can understand the cable tax since the coax cable physically lies on publicly owned property and often uses public infrastructure such as the telephone poles just like phone lines do.

Cell phones often need large cell sites sitting on government owned public property.

But what rational reason do they have to tax a satellite signal ? The satellite dish is usually sitting on your privately owned property or if you rent it is sitting on the owners private property. The satellite itself is in orbit miles up in space and often far south of the location receiving the signals. Where is the justification for the tax ? Most satellite TV providers already paid the federal government (FCC, etc.) money to use those frequency bandwithds to broadcast from space. How does that technology use public infrastructure to require government funds ?

This is simply a tax because you can tax situation and it is fundamentally wrong, illogical, and anti-American. I suppose we could all become like communist/socialist governments and have the government impose their will to tax anything at all for any reason at all. Essentially then government would have the hold on ALL technology. How about if they tax IPods music. They transmit music through a speaker cord. They could tax CB radios, or walkie talkie radios, or your (non cellular) wireless telephone or your XM or Sirius satellite radio. You can see that this gets ridiculous. However, if they tax satellite TV and get away with it they it opens Pandora's box of issues and this gets into the constitutionality of taxing services from a company across state lines. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13167734 Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:09:08 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13167324 quetwo :
said by gpancner See Profile:

if a you hung a wire across a blind man's property, would you be using his right-of-way? Just because you don't see the satellite wavelength doesn't mean they're not using right of way. It's called violating air space when an unauthorized plane flies over other countries air space. The satellite companies use the public airways to make money, the government should get the same fees for using the right of way from satellite customers as they do from phone and cable.
The difference with Satellite and traditional Rights-of-Way is that you legally give up the right to do anything to your property within the Rights of Way. ROW essentially lets you 'own' property, however you may not construct, sell, etc. anything on the property, yet you still pay taxes on it.

Satellite does not inhibit the usage of your property. You may construct a big steel contraption on your property, and the satellite companies can not do anything to stop you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13167324 Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:06:13 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13167267 gpancner : Most. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13167267 Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:53:55 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13166240 John Galt :
said by en102 See Profile:

There's 2 certainties in life:

Death and Taxes
And I am not so sure about Death...!

;)
--
A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13166240 Thu, 14 Apr 2005 01:38:58 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13164143 the dozer :
said by gpancner See Profile:

if a you hung a wire across a blind man's property, would you be using his right-of-way? Just because you don't see the satellite wavelength doesn't mean they're not using right of way. It's called violating air space when an unauthorized plane flies over other countries air space. The satellite companies use the public airways to make money, the government should get the same fees for using the right of way from satellite customers as they do from phone and cable.
Don't forget walkie talkies and other 2-way radios. Tax them as well. We can also tax that radio in your car. It uses the airways as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13164143 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:15:19 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13164090 the dozer :
said by gpancner See Profile:

It's about making the satellite subscribers pay the same tax amount that cable subscribers do. Municipalities provide services that many satellite subscribers want but are unable and/or unwilling to pay for. So they tax the easiest target (i.e. cable). Now that so many ignorant, whining freeloader types have gone to satellite those municipalities are losing tax revenue on a grand scale. The only way of recovering the loss is to apply the same amount of tax to all providers of video. Cell phone companies collect the same taxes as hard wire phone, so should satellite companies.
Are you implying that all satellite customers are ignorant & whining freeloaders? Hey we chose a better medium and don't need government digging any deeper in our pockets. A better way of recovering the loss is to cut spending. Wow!!! Don't figure!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13164090 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:10:32 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13162986 gpancner : cable has an exclusive right to territory as mcdonald's has exclusive rights to hamburgers. exclusive cable tv franchises are illegal (see Cable TV Act of 1984). The fees are just another tax, and should be assessed upon all video providers equally..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13162986 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:05:43 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13162960 gpancner : if a you hung a wire across a blind man's property, would you be using his right-of-way? Just because you don't see the satellite wavelength doesn't mean they're not using right of way. It's called violating air space when an unauthorized plane flies over other countries air space. The satellite companies use the public airways to make money, the government should get the same fees for using the right of way from satellite customers as they do from phone and cable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13162960 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:02:24 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13160186 en102 : There's 2 certainties in life:

Death and Taxes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13160186 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:41:35 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159373 NOCMan : Cell phone companies are forced to pay these taxes while we also find the same taxes passed onto us by the backhaul providers.

The residents want more towers, the councils moan, but then agree to it but then stab us in the back with taxes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159373 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:57:35 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159125 cdru :
said by gpancner See Profile:
It's about making the satellite subscribers pay the same tax amount that cable subscribers do.
Satellite companies must lease/purchase frequency/orbital positions in order to broadcast. Cable, since they aren't using public airwaves, don't have these expenses. Should the satellite companies lobby to have a tax levied on cable companies to help make a level playing field? No. The expense in acquiring the rights to transmit are part of the operating expense of the company, as is the cost of the satellite, launch, uplink facility, etc. Just like cable TV has the head end, telephone poles, buried cable, franchise fees, etc. It's just the cost of doing business.

I don't have a problem, other then having to spend more, with charging sales tax on the service equally for both satellite and cable service. But the "satellite tax" isn't a sales tax, rather a thinly vail equivalent of a franchise fee. Cable companies make a franchise agreement with the city that usually says in exchange for the cable company carrying PI channels and paying a fee, the cable company gets exclusive rights for cable service and public right of ways to lay cable. Essentially a monopoly on local service. What would satellite companies get out of the deal? They already have airwave rights, purchased/acquired through the FCC. They use no local infrastructure. There is no reason for the satellite providers to pay the tax.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159125 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:22:41 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159096 kinneyr2 : I love the idea that taxing is a solution and not a problem. I can see where a foreign satellite company can beat cable and other providers simply because they will not be taxed.

People do respond to price; pharmaceuticals, internet shopping, etc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159096 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:18:49 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159088 en102 : Agreed -
Dish and DirecTv pay $$$ to have their satellites, and I imagine that they also pay $$$ to use a certain amount of spectrum. Other than that, there are NO local resources used that could be taxed. Cable, power lines, gas lines, phone lines, water lines, and cell phones require land within a city, and are typically on public land (or under the streets). None of this is required for satellite.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13159088 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:17:48 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158823 DrTCP :
said by gpancner See Profile:

Municipalities provide services that many satellite subscribers want but are unable and/or unwilling to pay for.
There is a reason for the tax levied on the cable since it uses infrastructure burried and maintainance of the roads etc where infrastructure passes costs to the city. With the Satellite the City does not incur any such charges and there is no reason to tax it. It would be taxation without representation.

However same money grab mentality that wants to tax VoIP is trying to tax the Satellite services.

Cell phone companies collect the same taxes as hard wire phone, so should satellite companies.
Cell phones needs to have towers in the neighborhood. You can make a case for that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158823 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:43:13 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158820 Skippy25 : You have no clue what it is you are talking about.

Most cable taxes are there as franchise fees and other "payoffs" for them to have exclusive rights to that territory. How the muni uses that tax is up to them, but this attempt is simply cable trying to raise the rates of it's competitors without providing them more profit so they dont have to lower theirs.

If your muni wants to collect taxes to cover the cost of services being offered they need to find another way of doing it or drop the service. If not we can expand your flawed reasoning to having an internet tax on all purchases and even internet connections.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158820 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:42:55 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158782 TheGhost : The only difference is that the Cable companies pay a fee to use the rights of way, sat companies do not use them. Why should they pay for the ROWs that they don't use?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158782 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:37:31 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158567 anon : I got a better idea, how about a 250% tax on the a$$e$ that thought up such a scheme! These people have learned nothing from the people a few hundred miles north who buy american satellite tv when they're no supposed to, who makes them think that people here will pay an unfair tax..
Companies who put wires to your home have higher costs, its just that simple.. and the more these companies try to scheme to screw a satellite and/or telco competitor, the more the cracks are showing about customer churn rates and telco advancements across the country... what I'm a bit disappointed in is only one company decided to do large scale fiber rollouts. Directv is doing massive HDTV rollouts too, this is why cablevision had no chance of gaining any marketshare. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158567 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:09:32 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158535 JTRockville : Here in MD, cable is not taxed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158535 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:04:38 EDT Re: If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158524 gpancner : It's about making the satellite subscribers pay the same tax amount that cable subscribers do. Municipalities provide services that many satellite subscribers want but are unable and/or unwilling to pay for. So they tax the easiest target (i.e. cable). Now that so many ignorant, whining freeloader types have gone to satellite those municipalities are losing tax revenue on a grand scale. The only way of recovering the loss is to apply the same amount of tax to all providers of video. Cell phone companies collect the same taxes as hard wire phone, so should satellite companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158524 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:02:03 EDT If you can't drop your own rates.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158223 moonpuppy : ....make your competition pay more. :uhh:

Got to love how companies can no longer compete on price but have to resort to "dirty politics." ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13158223 Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:06:33 EDT