Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r12993025 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:18:39 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:18:39 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995756 reub2000 : But what if a page was not properly marked as dynamic? I'd be POed if I couldn't see new posts on one of my favorite forums. If I wanted caching, I'd just run squid on my server.

Also, how would a web cache detect http traffic? Would it just pass all port 80 traffic. What about sites on port 83? What about sites on port 1351 or 8684?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995756 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:53:38 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995491 nixen :
said by reub2000 See Profile:

What about dynamic content. How would it detect that?
Ask th folks at Oracle. They seem to think that their cache-engine properly handles dynamic content.

-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995491 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:19:19 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12993025 anon : As long as the page is written correctly, the author will have included a tag noting the dynamic content, which will then not be cached]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12993025 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:20:19 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12990560 reub2000 : What about dynamic content. How would it detect that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12990560 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:39:06 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989947 nixen :
said by moby866 See Profile:

I would view it as a state attempting to interrupt interstate commerce. I think that is going to be the best angle the ISP's can work for.
Actually, what will ultimately doom this is that, if they block by IPs rather than names, more than just porn sites will get blocked.

-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989947 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:18:38 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989930 nixen :
said by vpoko See Profile:

You know, that's really not an entirely facetious solution. If ISP's were to terminate everyone who wanted porn-blocking, other ISP's would begin to cater to those customers (supply and demand). Some ISP's would be porn-friendly and some would block it for everyone; the problem of having to maintain lists is solved.
Again, the lists wouldn't need to be maintained by individual ISPs. Most likely, it could be implemented in the form of DNSBLs.

-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989930 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:16:32 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989923 nixen :
said by reub2000 See Profile:

Which would have a bit of overhead. I hope it doesn't add too much though.
Use of proxies can improve web content viewing. That's the whole premise behind a content-accelerator: you proxy a group of users behind a caching device. The first person to visit a site experiences a small access-time penalty (generally not something noticeable). All subsequent visitors for the target site fetch content from the local cache, not the remote site. Therefore, their fetches are done from closer hosts, thereby accelerating downloads (since the fetches are only going one or two hops, not tens of hops).

-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989923 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:14:58 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989901 nixen :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile:

said by vpoko See Profile:

Well, they don't really have to maintain a list of IP addresses. The government supplies them a list of URL's and they can just block those URL's at the DNS level. If someone wants to access a porn site by typing in its IP address, that's technically different from the using the URL.
I meant customer IP's, not the list of porn IP's.

But you bring up a good point on how do you implement this so that some customers can block the porn sites and some can see the porn sites.

Do you force customers thru the DHCP procedure to use different DNS servers(1 for porn and 1 for no-porn). Which is easily overridden, even by non-geek children, in the routers setup and in the pc's browser config.

Or do you force all subscribers who want no-porn to go thru a proxy server, which would be the only IP address accessible thru a restrictive setup in the cable or DSL modem.

Or are their easier ways on how to differentiate between porn and no-porn customers.
.
Set up your POP routers to do packet inspection.
Well, if they're using PPPoE for connectivity, there's already a level of authentication that could be used to apply profiles to a connection (e.g., force specific accounts through filtered proxies). A possibly more brute force method would be to send all users through HTTP proxies. Enable authentication on the proxies. Customers that have selected porn filtering get additional content-filtering rules applied to their sessions. Users not in the filtered class don't have the content-filtering rules applied.

Doable, but not something that most ISP engineers are likely to be happy to do.

-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989901 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:11:36 EDT Re: LOL! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989737 flawlessly : I'm moving to Utah :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12989737 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:43:14 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12986565 reub2000 : Which would have a bit of overhead. I hope it doesn't add too much though.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12986565 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:14:44 EDT Re: LOL! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12985666 vpoko : Oh, you're preaching to the choir, I agree with you 100%. I'm just intrigued by the technical challenges of implementing this dumb policy :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12985666 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:33:47 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12985306 Maxo :
said by vpoko See Profile:

Well, they don't really have to maintain a list of IP addresses. The government supplies them a list of URL's and they can just block those URL's at the DNS level. If someone wants to access a porn site by typing in its IP address, that's technically different from the using the URL.
I'd be pretty pissed if my tax dollars were going to paying people to maintain this list. This list would have to be ungodfully long and exhaustive to do any good at all.
If I as a consumer don't want porn I simply just don't browse to that porn site. If I do want porn than I do. If I have kids that I don't want browsing to said sites I go and get some software to do it. If there's a big enough market for this then ISP would be happy to do this for a fee. If there isn't then why should the government subsidize something there's no market for?
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»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12985306 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:53:49 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12985090 xirian : Since its just blocking a list of porn sites, Id think they'd just send all the http traffic through a transparent proxy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12985090 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:30:10 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12984861 vpoko : You know, that's really not an entirely facetious solution. If ISP's were to terminate everyone who wanted porn-blocking, other ISP's would begin to cater to those customers (supply and demand). Some ISP's would be porn-friendly and some would block it for everyone; the problem of having to maintain lists is solved.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12984861 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:08:35 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12984822 moby866 : I would view it as a state attempting to interrupt interstate commerce. I think that is going to be the best angle the ISP's can work for.
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Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12984822 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:03:35 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12984794 n2jtx :
said by vpoko See Profile:

Well, they don't really have to maintain a list of IP addresses. The government supplies them a list of URL's and they can just block those URL's at the DNS level. If someone wants to access a porn site by typing in its IP address, that's technically different from the using the URL.
Even easier; customer calls ISP to complain that they want porn blocked. All the ISP has to do is terminate the customers' service and porn problem is solved! :D
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said by vpoko See Profile:

Well, they don't really have to maintain a list of IP addresses. The government supplies them a list of URL's and they can just block those URL's at the DNS level. If someone wants to access a porn site by typing in its IP address, that's technically different from the using the URL.
I meant customer IP's, not the list of porn IP's.

But you bring up a good point on how do you implement this so that some customers can block the porn sites and some can see the porn sites.

Do you force customers thru the DHCP procedure to use different DNS servers(1 for porn and 1 for no-porn). Which is easily overridden, even by non-geek children, in the routers setup and in the pc's browser config.

Or do you force all subscribers who want no-porn to go thru a proxy server, which would be the only IP address accessible thru a restrictive setup in the cable or DSL modem.

Or are their easier ways on how to differentiate between porn and no-porn customers.
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Join Red Room Forum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12983912 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:19:42 EDT Re: Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12983832 vpoko : Well, they don't really have to maintain a list of IP addresses. The government supplies them a list of URL's and they can just block those URL's at the DNS level. If someone wants to access a porn site by typing in its IP address, that's technically different from the using the URL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12983832 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:07:24 EDT Bureaucratic nightmare for an ISP http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12983777 TKJunkMail : I expect the ISP's will fight this in court, not as any kind of 1st amendment issue, but for the onerous burden put on the ISP to maintain up to date IP address lists for customers desiring the block. I just can't see the ISP's agreeing to this without a major fight - too much expense involved.
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Join Red Room Forum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12983777 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:00:49 EDT LOL! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12983693 Riplin : Good Luck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12983693 Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:51:41 EDT